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Lotus 27 - Antipodean Style


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#1 SJ Lambert

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 12:54

img014s.jpg

 

 

Another one of Ron's shots, looks a lot like a 1.5 litre Cossie Twin Cam providing the Go!!



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#2 RonPohl

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 15:30

beautiful!!!

#3 StanBarrett2

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 20:10

beautiful!!!

Yes !!  as a fan of technical drawings, especially the cutaways, I sure enjoy the 'nudes' very much

 

macoran



#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 20:35

That's the Arnold Glass car...

Red wheels are a giveaway. Of those which raced here, it was always the least attractive, the black looked a bit 'off' and the red wheels didn't do much for it.

It was the only one fitted with a twinc from the beginning.

#5 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 23:47

That roll bar rear support to the roll bar is a joke. Bolted to cast alloy which was never designed remotely for the job.



#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 05:53

I had none originally, Lee...

And at least it's braced to both sets of camcover retaining bolts.

#7 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 06:33

I wasn't sure if Lee was really surprised or simply stating the obvious?

 

I believe this is 27-FM-24 (rather than JM) and has the same roll bar configuration as the Glyn Scott car.



#8 DanTra2858

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:06

That would be the car that Glass placed on top of the Armco at Oran Park just after the Dog Leg & asked the C of C if the practice session could be stopped so he could take photo,s or Video of it just sitting on top of the Amco, the answer was NO.

#9 ellrosso

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:55

Couple of shots featuring Glyn Scott's Lotus 27 from Symmons 1967 Gold Star round and Catalina Park 1967. Mike Champion is in Brabham Ford, Max Stewart is in Rennmax Ford - all 1.5 litre AF2.3933-_K-_Lo27-67-lo.jpg4426_P_Jun_67-lo.jpg



#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 13:59

The Scott car and the Geoghegan car both had pushrod engines as first raced here...

This is probably the reason for the different chassis number/designation, 'JM' being on both the others and 'FM' only on the Glass car, which was delivered with a twin-cam.

Andrew's car is a 'JM' too, but it was a later import.

Thus far I cannot find a photo of the car without a roll-bar brace, but I'm willing to bet that it's an addition made after its arrival in Australia.

#11 cooper997

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 00:56

The ex Glass 27 was advertised for sale in April 2013 Motor Sport p155. The photo showing an all black livery.

 

Where is it now?

 

Stephen



#12 cooper997

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:18

It was a leap year when Ron Lambert took the fantastic photo that James posted at the lead of this thread. Whether he took it on the Feb 29 or Mar 2, 1964 I'm not sure though.

 

Here's the Under 1500 entries for Saturday

Event 7 “The Mercury” Racing Car Scratch Race – 10 laps p19

Under 1500cc

3 Capitol Motors Holdings P/L Arnold Glass      Lotus 27 1498 NSW

8 Alex (sic) Mildren Racing P/L Frank Gardner Brabham-Ford 1498 INT

15 Scuderia Veloce Greg Cusack                     Repco-Brabham 1495 NSW

17 David I Walker D I Walker                             Brabham-Ford 1475 NSW

18 Mel McEwin Mel McEwin                               Elfin 1498 SA

 

Stephen



#13 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:53

The Scott car and the Geoghegan car both had pushrod engines as first raced here...

This is probably the reason for the different chassis number/designation, 'JM' being on both the others and 'FM' only on the Glass car, which was delivered with a twin-cam.

Andrew's car is a 'JM' too, but it was a later import.

Thus far I cannot find a photo of the car without a roll-bar brace, but I'm willing to bet that it's an addition made after its arrival in Australia.

Quite possibly to comply with Australian rules?



#14 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:14

Quite possibly to comply with Australian rules?

 

In 1963 certainly all the Ron Harris Team Lotus cars were braced to the engine as above  and I suspect all customer cars though later years show some braced at an angle to the nearside rear of the tub.



#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:56

Lee, the Brabhams of that era didn't have braces, nor some other cars...

I suspect that they've looked at the size of the hoop and said, "Wow, your helmet could fit through that!" and decided on bracing it.

So it wasn't local regs...

#16 Porsche718

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:09

and I suspect all customer cars though later years show some braced at an angle to the nearside rear of the tub.

 

As were the Brabham BT14s, 15s and 16s from 1965.



#17 SJ Lambert

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:21

Twin Cam Elfin Monos had a small diameter two legged stay coming straight down onto the front studs of their cam cover in the mid sixties.

#18 Charlieman

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:12

When Lotus, Brabham or Cooper exported a car to Australia or NZ, how was the car put together? This is the time before container transportation, so I'm wondering how costs and shipping damage were limited.

 

Did the manufacturer ship an assembled car in a big crate? With wheels fitted? I presume that cars were sold with/without engine and transmission. Were some cars shipped as knocked down kits? Did a car arrive with a spares package, or did owners rely on local distributors for parts that would be difficult to manufacture or buy off the shelf?



#19 Bloggsworth

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 15:23

When Lotus, Brabham or Cooper exported a car to Australia or NZ, how was the car put together? This is the time before container transportation, so I'm wondering how costs and shipping damage were limited.

 

Did the manufacturer ship an assembled car in a big crate? With wheels fitted? I presume that cars were sold with/without engine and transmission. Were some cars shipped as knocked down kits? Did a car arrive with a spares package, or did owners rely on local distributors for parts that would be difficult to manufacture or buy off the shelf?

 

Any and/or all of the above...



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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 19:22

Wasn't it Daniel Tracey who used to work for Geoghegans helping with new Lotus arrivals?

He might be able to tell us...

#21 ed holly

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 21:40

The Scott car and the Geoghegan car both had pushrod engines as first raced here...

This is probably the reason for the different chassis number/designation, 'JM' being on both the others and 'FM' only on the Glass car, which was delivered with a twin-cam.

Andrew's car is a 'JM' too, but it was a later import.

Thus far I cannot find a photo of the car without a roll-bar brace, but I'm willing to bet that it's an addition made after its arrival in Australia.

 

The Cosworth twincam engine that went into Glyn Scott's car actually came into the country new from Lotus in my Lotus Series 2 Seven chassis 1938. With the help of Marc Schagen  (and his father's) meticulous records we were able to identify engine numbers and the pushrod 1500 engine out of Glyn's car went into Mrs Anne Thompson's Lotus Fifteen.

 

According to the UK Seven Registrar 1938 was the only S2 Seven to ever leave the factory with a twincam and one could imagine it might have been to facilitate getting such an engine here to put into Glyn's car. The UK records show 1938 left the factory without a radiator fitted and the original radiator would have been quite a fiddle to fit with a twincam.



#22 DanTra2858

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 23:03

Wasn't it Daniel Tracey who used to work for Geoghegans helping with new Lotus arrivals?

He might be able to tell us...



#23 DanTra2858

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 23:42

Ray thanks for the comments, when I was with Geoghegan,s Lotus Division no matter what model car, Super Seven, Elan, Elan+2 or the Europa the car came in 2 (two) crates, very open design made of wood.

I will not go into the sealing of the goods but 2 crates per car one holding the fully fitted out body with suspension parts packages as one lot, the wheels/tyers formed the bed that the car sat on, motor gearbox / diff came in the second box along with exhaust system.

A days work for me was from 8am to when I finishes assy of say a Europa, first cut open box containing body etc clear away all wood them move assy into workshop & place on stands,then morning tea.

Next back out to holding area find correct motor/geabox box, open the box clean up all wood other wise you could not move anything about & move all components into the workshop.

Using the old brain when the body assy. was placed in work shop you made sure that the engine bay way ALLWAYS at the door end, if you did not do this it was a lot of lost time during the assembly as everything had to be turned around, by this time it would of been close to 1pm & time for lunch.

Then it was all assembly action to about 8pm wnen the car was drivable & one had set up the next boxes to be opened for tomorrows assembly, but it not allways went so well.

The biggest issue we had was the clutch plate attaching itself to the flywheel & or the pressure plate, the easist way to fix the problem was to start the car while in gear with the clutch depressed, this 99 times out of 100 worked but on that 1% time it was remove motor/gearbox to rectify the problem & at times that did not go to well.

So that is how it was done when I was at Geoghegan,s, hope this helps Ray.

Edited by DanTra2858, 04 May 2018 - 23:43.


#24 Porsche718

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 04:28

Sounds nothing like the Top Gear episode when the 3 tried to assemble a Caterham.

 

Dan, I hope all work safety practices were carried out to the tee?



#25 DanTra2858

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 09:12

Safety, in those days it was known as COMMON SENCE, yes we were safe & looked after each other, if you did something wrong you sure knew you were unsafe, good way to work.

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 11:31

Thanks, Daniel, very informative...

Were you there when the 59 arrived? That was the only racing car Geoghegans imported after the 32 in 1964.

Would that have been packed differently?

#27 cooper997

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:50

Caption below the Ray Simpson photo tells the story.

Geoghegan_Lotus_27_TNF.jpg

 

Stephen



#28 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:27

Great looking car!

Are there any left in Australia? (Apologies for not searching TNF to find the answer!)

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:50

One was seriously crashed at Catalina... the Geoghegan, Howard, Fergusson car. The remains are in someone's possession, that's all we know.

The Scott car was in Victoria in 2012, but for sale, it might have left the country now.

The Glass car certainly went to the UK after a stint in New Zealand.

Andrew Fellows imported yet another in 2011.

#30 cooper997

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:49

Going by comments in some1964 Oran Park programmes the 27s must have been getting knocked about fairly early in their racing life.

In July it reads "Everyone will be glad to see the reappearance of ARNOLD GLASS so soon after his disastrous crash at the last (May) meeting."

 

Here's some entry details from that programme.

July 5, 1964 Oran Park

Event 8 Racing Car Scratch Race Group A, 8 laps 12.50pm

1100 to 1500cc

5 Total Team / Ian Geoghegan Lotus 27 1475

7 Capitol Motors (Holdings) P/L Arnold Glass Lotus 27 1498

Event 13 Craven A Trophy For Racing Cars by Invitation 10 laps 2.40pm

1100 to 1500cc

5 Total Team / Ian Geoghegan Lotus 27 1475

7 Capitol Motors (Holdings) P/L Arnold Glass Lotus 27 1498

 

In the September 1964 Oran Park programme it mentions "LEO GEOGHEGAN returns to Oran Park in his Lotus 27 which was badly damaged only two weeks ago at Warwick Farm. Special parts were flown out from England to enable the car to be ready for this meeting."

 

Stephen



#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 07:41

Isn't that the crash for which we have a photo of Leo walking away from the car sprawled on the road?

#32 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:42

Caption below the Ray Simpson photo tells the story.

Geoghegan_Lotus_27_TNF.jpg

 

Stephen

Gee, 10 bob admittance with a program thrown in. And I like the $1, in 64. They were edumacating the population even then fifteen months before those pesky dollars came in.



#33 cooper997

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:32

Ray, regarding your post 31 question/comment not sure where the photo you mention can be found?.

 

A bit more Oran Park Lotus 27 entries

Sunday May 3 1964 Oran Park National Open meeting

Event 8 Martins Neutral Bay Motors Racing Car Scratch Race Group A, 8 laps 12.50pm p10

1100 to 1500cc

1 Total Team / Leo Geoghegan Lotus 27 1475

7 Capitol Motors (Holdings) P/L / A Glass Lotus 27 1498

Event 13 NSW Road Racing Club Invitation Racing Car Scratch Race 10 laps 2.40pm p17

1100 to 1500cc

1 Total Team / Leo Geoghegan Lotus 27 1475

7 Capitol Motors (Holdings) P/L / Arnold Glass Lotus 27 1498

 

Stephen



#34 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:56

I don't either, Stephen...

Maybe it's a John Ellacott photo. It's colour and taken over the fence from the Creek Corner spectator area.

If you like I'll ask John if it is one of his.

#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 23:27

Or maybe it's not in colour...

But I feel sure that I have seen it in colour somewhere. Anyway, here it is in Racing Car News October 1964, covering the Warwick Farm meeting of September 6:

0518fr_RCN64leoand27crashed.jpg

This photo was taken by David White, undoubtedly a spectator who figured he might become famous for having a pic in RCN. This is his moment!

#36 cooper997

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:12

They did well to have the car repaired in 2 weeks if they had to wait for the parts to arrive from the UK.

 

An early Lotus 27 entry from November 1963 Oran Park

 

Sunday November 24 1963 NSWRRC Oran Park National Open Meeting.

Event 8 Racing Car Scratch Race, Group A ? laps 12.50pm

20 Glyn Scott Lotus 27 1498

Event 13 Invitation Racing Car Scratch Race 10 laps 2.40pm

20 Glyn Scott Lotus 27 1498

 

Stephen



#37 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:18

Maybe a rear upright?

Marc feels sure, like me, that there's a colour pic about like this.

#38 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 00:05

Other photos pertaining, from Terry S...

0518fr_TScusackandgeoghegandummygrid.jpg

Leo in 'civvies' on race day, probably talking to Glyn Scott as much as anything prior to Bruce Burr preparing to push Greg Cusack's car forward to go to the grid. That would be the Arnold Glass 27 the other side of Scotty's, Collerson's Brabham is obscured and then the Price 18 sticks out.

0518fr_TScusackwithtrophy.jpg

With Leo missing, Greg had an easy win. Well, easy when he overcame his second-lap spin. Bruce Burr is off to the left.

0518fr_TSprogramme.jpg

The list of runners and the result written in by a youthful spectator.

#39 TerryS

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:00

I am pleased that my two 1964 photos above have come up so well.

Taken by a “youthful spectator” with a mighty Kodak Instamatic.

Thanks to Ray Bell for his assistance in posting.

Ray do you recall anything of the R Price who came 6th in the Lotus 18?

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 06:37

His name was Ric Price...

He raced that car ten times according to Marc's book. He knows nothing more about him, but you'd have to say he put up a good performance here.

#41 TerryS

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:23

A great Lotus 27 shot here of dicing between Glynn Scott (#12) and Arnold Glass (#14) in the above mentioned 1964 1.5L championship race

http://www.theroarin...ick-Farm-Part-1

#42 TerryS

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:28

His name was Ric Price...

He raced that car ten times according to Marc's book. He knows nothing more about him, but you'd have to say he put up a good performance here.


And for coming in sixth in this Australian Championship race he received prize money of 10 pounds.........

#43 Repco22

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:29

Re the entry list in post 38;
     I guess number 20 was West Australian Noel Potts, a champion TQ racer
    at Claremont Speedway before buying the Elfin which he raced briefly at Caversham in the mid 60s.



#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:09

Correct, Rod...

Rod raced several times on the East Coast.

#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:19

From John Ellacott...

[url=https://postimages.org/]0518_JEcrashed27.jpg

Leo Geoghegan's wreckage after the above crash, the remains having been moved off the track and more or less out of the way.

0518_JEglasssmith_Mc_Phillamy.jpg

Arnold Glass leading Charlie Smith at Bathurst in 1964. Smith got by and the other Lotus 27 in the pic, Glyn Scott's, retired.

#46 TerryS

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 09:50

Those wheels look so incredibly small.

Smaller than current Formula Ford?

#47 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 10:51

Probably not...

Maybe someone who's running something of that era might know exactly.

#48 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:08

As original, the fronts a tad narrower, the rears a tad wider than a Formula Ford, assuming that the mandated FF wheel width is the same as it is here. The tyres have changed more!

#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:12

Even in 1500 twin-cam form, Simon?

Glass' car came from the factory with the bigger engine.

#50 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:19

Even in twin cam form Ray. We restored the Glass car for Michael Schryver, with correct 1500cc twin cam and it came with lots of period documentation.
The fun and games with the car in its original form came to a head when Will, Michael's son, blew the doors of the old brigade at Brands and the car became "uninvited".
We put a Junior engine in ( this was the second, standard, Junior format chassis that replaced the original long wheelbase chassis that Arnold biffed very early in its life) and the car today resides in Mexico. As far as I know.