20 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

I cannot find a previous thread on this, so please excuse me if I haven't searched well enough.
 
I am currently writing a dossier on the Prophet Can-Am car, and I've been told by a previous owner that the Laguna Seca race on 14 Oct 1979 that Bobby Rahal won in the Prophet was one of the first times an in-car camera was used in a live TV transmission.  When I googled this, I found a claim that such a camera was used at Bathurst in 1979, presumably the 1979 Hardie-Ferodo 1000 which was held on 30 Sep 1979, just two weeks earlier, but it is unclear whether that footage was used live.

 

There are earlier examples of in-car footage of course, notably from F1 in 1966, but not (necessarily) from an actual competitor, and not (necessarily) used live.

 

Can anyone confirm any of this?  

[ChiliFan]

When I googled this, I found a claim that such a camera was used at Bathurst in 1979, presumably the 1979 Hardie-Ferodo 1000 which was held on 30 Sep 1979, just two weeks earlier, but it is unclear whether that footage was used live.

 

This was the first incarnation of the RaceCam system used by Channel Seven, and I believe it was part of the live broadcast. As far as I know the first ever live onboard camera was used in the 1979 Daytona 500, in Benny Parsons' car.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I worked for a TV production company (not on the technical side) in the 1980s and I recall some our engineers working on such an idea in around 1980-81. Although it's possible that somebody could have already achieved this by then, it seems unlikely our engineers would have devoted much time to it if it had already been done. But it is possible.

Do you know if the Rahal camera was used for broadcast or closed circuit transmission?

[ReWind]

Rainer Günzler & Paul Frère at the 1966 Nürburgring 1000 km race?

[Allen Brown]

This was the first incarnation of the RaceCam system used by Channel Seven, and I believe it was part of the live broadcast. As far as I know the first ever live onboard camera was used in the 1979 Daytona 500, in Benny Parsons' car.

 

I looked this up in newspapers.com, and Rocky Entriken refers to the CBS coverage, saying "seldom has better use been made of an in-car camera".  So even then, it was not revolutionary in itself.

[Allen Brown]

Do you know if the Rahal camera was used for broadcast or closed circuit transmission?

 

I do not.

[Tim Murray]

There are a few mentions of early in-car live TV in this earlier thread on early TV motor sport memories. Paul Newby stated that the first live in-car footage from Bathurst was in 1979:
 

Ray, the first year for the in car camera was 1979 in Peter Williamson's Toyota Celica. Of course in those days the commentators thought nothing of asking Willo the odd question in mid race - indeed his in-car comments were a source of wonder. Channel 7 soon realised you couldn't ask every driver to talk mid race, and nowadays its not done, except under safety car periods.

I think 1977 may have been the "year of the axe!"

and Tweddell corroborated Reinhard's suggestion about the 1966 Nürburgring 1000 km:
 

when could live-reports from the track be seen in TV first?

the first one I was told ,was the 1000km at the Ring ,1966 ,in German television, when a Porsche 904 was entered by ZDF -TV, driven by Paul Frere and Rainer Guenzler (a well-known German TV man). This 904 had a tv sender onboard, a helicopter followed him along the 22km track to pick up the signals, sending them to another place and from there to the TV main-station in Wiesbaden.
The live-report from this much remembered race, when the Chaparral with Joakim Bonnier and Phil Hill won its most famous victory, came to german tv-spectators living-rooms during the whole sunday in 1 hour sequenzes, and the best was: with many inboard-camera pictures live.
in our days this is a quite normal view, but in those days it was spectacular.

unfortunately I could not see this early version of live-inboard- report, as I was at the Ring so see it all, ....live....

[Porsche718]

Paul Newby, on 22 Nov 2004 - 12:10, said:

Ray, the first year for the in car camera was 1979 in Peter Williamson's Toyota Celica. Of course in those days the commentators thought nothing of asking Willo the odd question in mid race - indeed his in-car comments were a source of wonder. Channel 7 soon realised you couldn't ask every driver to talk mid race, and nowadays its not done, except under safety car periods.

I think 1977 may have been the "year of the axe!" 

 

For first couple of years of racecam, the commentators did not talk to Williamson live. There was no direct link. The commentators asked the director, who was in communcation with the driver, things like "ask Peter to describe a lap of the track" or "get Peter to comment on passing slower cars" or "we will ask Peter how the car was going, get him to answer" etc.

 

So at a "live" cross it was fairly well orchestrated. But having said that, it was a fantastic breakthrough for RaceCam.

 

BTW: axe in the boot was 1978

 

Cheers, Steve

[LittleChris]

There are a few mentions of early in-car live TV in this earlier thread on early TV motor sport memories. Paul Newby stated that the first live in-car footage from Bathurst was in 1979:
 

and Tweddell corroborated Reinhard's suggestion about the 1966 Nürburgring 1000 km:
 

 

Camera ( & I presume aerial on the roof ) can be seen here.

 

https://www.rallyand...ster-print.html

 

Now need to find the footage !

[Lee Nicolle]

Reputedly the first Racecam with live pictures was the 7 one at Bathurst in Peter Williamsons Celica.

Obviously there had been film cameras in cars for quite a while before that but not live.

Willo was probably the ideal bloke as he was very fast in a 2 litre car so the faster cars did not run away and he was ofcourse all over the  bigger cars across the top,,, the famous quote 'get out the way you big ugly thing' referring to Ron Dicksons Camaro which was wobbling along on its very oversize tyres going down from Skyline. Which is where he made his time, and then watching the big cars disapear down Conrod.

As for live crosses,, well Willo was very good and Dick Johnson was very laconic and good with the quips. Though we never got the footage of his huge 'off' in the XE in Hardies Heroes. John French did it as well but not near as good.

In the Sierra days you could see how loose those cars were,,, plus Dick continually pushing himself back in the seat.

Though probably the best was Brock, talking with his hands going over the top! And having discussions with co driver, commentators etc

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 May 2018 - 23:17.

[AaPee89]

Camera ( & I presume aerial on the roof ) can be seen here.

 

https://www.rallyand...ster-print.html

 

Now need to find the footage !

 

Another picture from the car:

 

https://alodecals.fi...picture1300.jpg

[Porsche718]

Lee, Willos description of the David McKay/Spencer Martin Volvo 240 ON RADIALS was even more descriptive, and less polite!!

[Lee Nicolle]

Lee, Willos description of the David McKay/Spencer Martin Volvo 240 ON RADIALS was even more descriptive, and less polite!!

Yes I do remember. I think most who raced that year thought there was about 5 of them!

[Ray Bell]

I seem to recall that Channel 7's team went across to Daytona to show them how it was done...

That doesn't seem right when it comes to the timing noted above, but maybe it was something to do with fine-tuning it all. Or maybe the voice crosses.

[Jager]

Here's a You-Tube link to the 1979 Bathurst in-car footage :

 

[Lee Nicolle]

A great piece of footage and so lousy a pic compared with today. 1080 cameras weighing only a few lbs compared with 50 odd in the Celica.

I watched a fair bit of that clip and along with the Volvo on road tyres the Gemenis seemed so slow. And Willo even rounded up a RX7 as well.

Can someone send Lewis Hamilton a bit of that clip,, with the tilt trays picking up broken cars. He will wet his nappy!

[Porsche718]

In the '79 race, when the Foley Alfas (including Derek Bell) were a fraction faster than Willo, the Celica was momentous under brakes into Hell Corner, outbraking everything including the Alfas. On the in-car mic Peter woud reach the last hump on Conrod at 140 mph and start his count "4, 3, 2, 1" and slam on the anchors. Wonderful stuff.

[Michael Ferner]

Here's a You-Tube link to the 1979 Bathurst in-car footage :

Thanks for that. I watched for a few minutes, it's such a great track that you hardly notice that there are only touring cars around (well, at least for ten minutes or so, before boredom sets in). At around 6'45", Williamson sets out to overtake a slower competitor coming out of the Dipper on the way to Elbow corner , and I'm thinking "heck, you need to be very confident of your driving to do that", then suddenly a faster car comes into view, overtaking both - they're going three abreast through the Esses!! Superb!

[Paul Newby]

 

Paul Newby, on 22 Nov 2004 - 12:10, said:

 

For first couple of years of racecam, the commentators did not talk to Williamson live. There was no direct link. The commentators asked the director, who was in communcation with the driver, things like "ask Peter to describe a lap of the track" or "get Peter to comment on passing slower cars" or "we will ask Peter how the car was going, get him to answer" etc.

 

So at a "live" cross it was fairly well orchestrated. But having said that, it was a fantastic breakthrough for RaceCam.

 

BTW: axe in the boot was 1978

 

Cheers, Steve

 

 

 

It’s amazing to think I get quoted for something that I said back in 2004…

 

I interviewed Peter Williamson in 2015 only a few months before he sadly passed away. This is what he had to say about Bathurst 1979 where he was the guinea pig for the first in-car camera telecast in his Toyota Celica:

 

“Until we got to Bathurst, indeed before the start of the race we didn’t know how good it would be. They (the Channel 7 technicians) were sitting in the foxhole in the middle of the paddock and it started to rain. We’re getting interference off the trees, so when you through the cutting turn this button here and then when you get to Skyline turn it back again. Well, it was a bit too hard. When the flag dropped the sun came out, we turned everything on and did it correctly. Range is limited. We have a link to the helicopter, when you see it over the top start talking. That was ok, we turn it on and everything worked as it should and then the radio went dud. So everytime the helicopter went over I started talking. They (the commentators) pre-empted what I was going to say – no one picked up that it was a one-way conversation. I couldn’t hear them. They knew the problem. I had to get a program together to deliver the message. And I was always good at one-liners, so that’s the best. I don’t have to think – ‘they’re more Japanese down there than there were in Nagasaki in 1945!’ Just say it and get on with the race!"

[cooper997]

Here's the 2 page feature published in the 1980 Bathurst 1000 programme in relation to the 1979 in-car race footage.

 

Stephen

[Fivestripes]

BBC Grandstand broadcast from a live in-car camera in a mini at Thruxton in 1969