297 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

https://www.google.c...biw=414&bih=622

Modern Drivers have been spoilt with all the blue flags, not sure they would cope well without the help to pass backmarkers. Imagine the team radio in Monaco, it would be like the first day at nursery school.

[Dratini]

https://www.google.c...biw=414&bih=622

Modern Drivers have been spoilt with all the blue flags, not sure they would cope well without the help to pass backmarkers. Imagine the team radio in Monaco, it would be like the first day at nursery school.

It would certainly make for some fun racing. Though with the cars the way they are I can't see it going too well when cars have such trouble overtaking as it is.

[OO7]

I find it concerning that it's even being evaluated at this time.  When the cars can follow each other is the time to start considering it, but what happens at Monaco, Hungary and Singapore?

[ArrowsLivery]

It’s a good idea, after they fix the aero. A race without blue flags in 2018 cars would be literally embarrassing for F1.

[johnmhinds]

Is there anything wrong with the current blue flag system? Is anyone complaining about it?

 

This is just following the trend of F1 'fixing' the things that nobody ever brought up as issues.

[OO7]

Is there anything wrong with the current blue flag system? Is anyone complaining about it?

 

This is just following the trend of F1 'fixing' the things that nobody ever brought up as issues.

This must be part of the "making things more random" line of thought.

[TauriJ]

Lol this would he hilarious

[RacingGreen]

I voted to get rid of blue flags because I've always thought that the ability to thread your way through the back-markers when lapping them was a skill that top drivers should have, however you can't do it until you've fixed overtaking issues of these 2018 cars.

[Jazza]

No blue flags is fine in a field of independent teams, but with the relationships between teams like RedBull and Toro Rosso, as well as Ferrari and Mercedes with some of their customer teams, how long until we see lapped cars not only not getting out of the way, but actually being roadblocks? Their is no question that races are going to get ruined not because the lapping driver can’t pass others, but because they have to fight cars that their rivals do not.

[Brian60]

My point of view? Keep them. Without the flags it is far too easy for the car being passed to claim he didn't see the lead cars behind him. Look at it this way, the leader comes up on an unexpecting slower car, he struggles to pass it, but when he does, the driver of the slower car suddenly 'switches on' and the car chasing the leader makes the pass with ease because the slower car is more aware. This will always hinder the lead or passing car and help the car chasing the leader.

 

Or the other view - Ferrari chasing a Merc, they come up behind a Haas, the word goes out to Haas that it would be of benefit to their team if they were to delay and make it awkward for the Merc to pass, thereby allowing the Ferrari to catch the Merc on the road. These sort of things do go on even now, if there were no blue flags how much worse would it get?

Edited by Brian60, 22 May 2018 - 06:57.

[TheMidnight]

It's just another gimmick, anything to randomize the show, along with DRS, cheese tires, grid drops and so on.

We spend Saturday working out who's quickest and then complain when they disappear into the distance.

F1 is not a spec series, there will always be faster cars, I wish the organisers would stop assuming everyone has ***t for brains and needs to be spoon fed 'excitement' every few min.

Other motorsports don't need blue flags as they don't have the petty malicious inter team rivalry insipid to f1, plus a 6 hour race is different to a 90 min sprint. It wouldn't work in f1 without somebody having a hissy fit each race. Mercs will not get past Toro Rosso's easily and vice versa.

If Grosjean manages to make it past the first lap imagine how many times he'd end up taking out a leader

Edited by TheMidnight, 22 May 2018 - 07:15.

[Danyy]

Don’t ‘evaluate’ blue flags... if you fix the real problem which is the big gap from the first car to the last car then you won’t see cars getting lapped three times a race. Blue flags are not the problem my gawd!!

Edited by Danyy, 22 May 2018 - 13:14.

[Pimpwerx]

No. 5 simple reasons.

1. KMag
2. Monaco
3. Hungary
4. Singapore
5. Perez

[FirstnameLastname]

The guys further down the field getting all excited as they are racing Hamilton, Vettel etc for ‘track position’ could end in some almighty post race ding-dongs.

++lack of entitlement - overtaking skills = Raceday chaos/carnage

[statman]

Vettel will not be happy

[Nemo1965]

Is there anything wrong with the current blue flag system? Is anyone complaining about it?

 

This is just following the trend of F1 'fixing' the things that nobody ever brought up as issues.

 

I have two problems with the current Blue Flag-system.

 

1. A lot of F1-fans are only interested in the top-teams, but sometimes fans (like myself) are also interested following the back-markers. Basically the current Blue Flag-system give them very little chance of driving their own race. They have to jump out of the way in idiotic spots or lose a lot of time because they are obliged after two blue flags to slow down idiotically because another driver behind them is yelling hysterically towards Charlie Whiting 'Blue Flag, Blue Flag'.

 

2. The moaning. Oh the moaning. One thing that annoyed me terribly was when Alonso was winning Grand Prix, was that he was constantly yelling and moaning about anyone who dared to only intrude his field of vision. If someone really blocks you, okay, then start moaning. But the current rules give top-drivers entitlement to a clear track that they just should not have.

[SophieB]

The current blue flag system seems fine to me, which by the apparent logic of modern F1 means they will probably seek to mess around with it or whatever.

 

I don't want some tool trundling around at the back suddenly dictating the race, especially if they are allowed to apply their willingness to move selectively to, say their engine partners. Like how the Toro Rossos used to practically jump into the gravel rather than hold up Vettel.

[Danyy]

Yeah watching a car 2 laps ahead trying to pass a backmarker is going to be so exciting isn’t it?

[Nonesuch]

Getting rid of the compulsory 'move out of the way NOW!' interpretation of blue flags would be fine, if:

• They go a long way to addressing the current aerodynamic problems;
• Engine manufacturers are no longer allowed to own teams.

Edited by Nonesuch, 22 May 2018 - 07:45.

[Bloggsworth]

Happy to have blue flags, not happy about the compulsion element in force at present. If the leaders are that good...

[Bloggsworth]

Yeah watching a car 2 laps ahead trying to pass a backmarker is going to be so exciting isn’t it?

 

Yes - At least it will be a genuine overtake.

[PiperPa42]

Vettel will not be happy

Neither will Hamilton nor Verstappen .

[Danyy]

Yes - At least it will be a genuine overtake.

A car able to lap 2/3 laps ahead of another and calling that a genuine overtake... hmm

[Lights]

Not the smartest bunch, are they. Great reasons to keep the blue flags are already mentioned above. To summarize:

 

1) It doesn't work with the current cars, on some tracks overtaking is impossible even if you're 2-3 seconds faster.

2) Teams aren't independent, there's loads of customer teams and the battle between a Merc, Ferrari & Red Bull can then be decided on whether they come up against a Williams, Haas, or Toro Rosso. It's also far too easy to force customer teams to simply drive super aggressive against their frontrunning rival. This makes overtaking even harder for them and makes it dangerous. Do you want to see a championship fight decided on which customer team is the most aggressive?

3) They're not in the same place in the race. Why would a driver that already covered 254km in the race have to overtake a car that has only covered 249km?

[r4mses]

This must be part of the "making things more random" line of thought.

 

Or the "making unnecessary changes just for the sake of doing things differently" line. 

[TheRacingElf]

Is there anything wrong with the current blue flag system? Is anyone complaining about it?

 

This is just following the trend of F1 'fixing' the things that nobody ever brought up as issues.

Some darts commentator on Sky almost every weekend...

[FirstnameLastname]

Some darts commentator on Sky almost every weekend...

And his ‘relevent’ nostalgic sidekick

[Fastcake]

Why should drivers be forced to overtake cars who are behind them in the race?

[FirstnameLastname]

Why should drivers be forced to overtake cars who are behind them in the race?

Why should drivers be forced to compromise their own race to let past cars that are behind them on the track?

[PayasYouRace]

I've always considered working your way up past backmarkers to be one of the skills required of a top racing driver. I'd like the blue flag rules to be relaxed, as having backmarkers jump out of the way within 3 marshal posts seems too easy. I'd have it so that the blue flag remains an advisory that a faster car is coming up behind, and you should therefore stick to the racing line and not make any effort to impede them, and let them get by you when they get the opportunity. Only at Monaco would the current rules be required to remain in force.

[redreni]

Quite happy for blue flags to be shown. I don't think they should be enforced, though. I'm aware that will lead to chaos at some tracks, but it's the teams' problem. If cars are quick enough to put a lap on a rival, they ought to be able to get past without help and if they can't, it's the job of the technical working group, Ross Brawn and the teams to sort that out.

 

Sorting it out may take time, but I'm quite happy to have chaos in the interim. If nothing else it would be good fun to watch the leaders struggle.

 

Blue flags were only ever a sticking plaster solution, introduced when it became apparent that the leaders couldn't overtake the backmarkers. It addresses the symptom rather than the cause and it's wrong-headed.

 

Why is the leader automatically entitled to the preferred line just because he is leading? Backmarkers regularly lose out in battles with other backmarkers because they are caught by a faster car on a part of the track where they have to (on pain of a penalty) drive into the dirt and marbles in order to let the faster car by. If your rival gets lucky and is able to let the same car by on a straight and then jump in the tow, you can easily lose a position. Yet when leaders lose a position due to traffic, there is outrage. I understand why that is, but I don't agree with it. The onus should be on the driver who wishes to overtake to get around the other car. That's the fairest way to do it. I don't care if it takes 40 laps to get the move done - I will never agree with a requirement that says the backmarker must move aside.

 

The one concession I'd make is I don't think lapped cars should be allowed to make defensive moves. If they're holding their line that's fine. If they're taking a defensive line into a corner so as to deliberately hinder a car that wishes to lap them, that's when the stewards should get involved.

[redreni]

Why should drivers be forced to overtake cars who are behind them in the race?

 

They shouldn't. They're welcome to stay behind if they want.

 

It's not a case of forcing the faster cars to do anything. The question is why should the slower cars be forced to get off the preferred line?

[noikeee]

This is a stupid idea that makes no sense in a series in which overtaking is impossible or very difficult in half the races due to aero. You'd ruin Monaco, and this would give disproportional amounts of power to the slowest teams to literally fix the races, by letting the leaders overtake when they're from the big teams aligned with them politically (ex Haas with Ferrari), whilst blocking their rivals.

[Kalmake]

Why should drivers be forced to compromise their own race to let past cars that are behind them on the track?

No rule is forcing them to be so slow as to get lapped. F1 is single class. Faster cars have earned their right of way.

[Diablobb81]

They are evaluating jack ....

 

This is the answer they give every year and every time they are asked about blue flags.

[ExFlagMan]

The rest of motorsport gets by quite well without the 'best' drivers/cars needing help to get past the slower ones - but I guess that has something to do with letting the inmates run the asylum.

[jcbc3]

Most racing series have Blue flags. But only F1 have the three corners rule enforced. And for all the reasons outlined above, F1 need to stick with that.

[SenorSjon]

https://www.google.c...biw=414&bih=622

Modern Drivers have been spoilt with all the blue flags, not sure they would cope well without the help to pass backmarkers. Imagine the team radio in Monaco, it would be like the first day at nursery school.

 

Current rules are what? 30 odd years old? Why change them? They are fine to keep some idiotic pay driver from messing with the championship. 

 

I voted to get rid of blue flags because I've always thought that the ability to thread your way through the back-markers when lapping them was a skill that top drivers should have, however you can't do it until you've fixed overtaking issues of these 2018 cars.

 

And if you pass them with much trouble, the no 2 gets them cleared for free at safery cars. 

[noikeee]

The rest of motorsport gets by quite well without the 'best' drivers/cars needing help to get past the slower ones - but I guess that has something to do with letting the inmates run the asylum.

The rest of motorsport doesn't have invisible massive walls of dirty air impossibilitating overtaking.

[SenorSjon]

The rest of motorsport gets by quite well without the 'best' drivers/cars needing help to get past the slower ones - but I guess that has something to do with letting the inmates run the asylum.

 

Yeah, you do need them at a 10odd lap WTCR race. Most races are not run over 1+ hour. In WEC they have blue flags, while different classes of cars have a very high (almost nutcase dangerous) speed difference.

[ANF]

I've always considered working your way up past backmarkers to be one of the skills required of a top racing driver. I'd like the blue flag rules to be relaxed, as having backmarkers jump out of the way within 3 marshal posts seems too easy. I'd have it so that the blue flag remains an advisory that a faster car is coming up behind, and you should therefore stick to the racing line and not make any effort to impede them, and let them get by you when they get the opportunity. Only at Monaco would the current rules be required to remain in force.

[Kalmake]

The rest of motorsport gets by quite well without the 'best' drivers/cars needing help to get past the slower ones - but I guess that has something to do with letting the inmates run the asylum.

Which series specifically?

 

Most similar series in cars and race length is Indycar and they have blue flag rule.

[7MGTEsup]

Current rules are what? 30 odd years old? Why change them? They are fine to keep some idiotic pay driver from messing with the championship. 

 

I think the modern 3 flag posts to let the driver past is only about 10-15 years old. I vividly remember races in the late 90's where the leader was stuck behind a lapped car for a few laps before passing. I also remember Monaco in the 1990's someone being held up for about 20 laps not able to get past a back marker to lap him.

Edited by 7MGTEsup, 22 May 2018 - 11:15.

[Sid04]

Atleast Max will have the opportunity to crash with someone new everyday..For now it is just the front five six drivers..

[P123]

With junior teams such as Toro Rosso and those closely affiliated to manufacturers such as Haas or FI it would be a recipe for race fixing, so the notion of getting rid of blue flags and having some sort of supposed pure racing is la la land stuff.

[TomNokoe]

With junior teams such as Toro Rosso and those closely affiliated to manufacturers such as Haas or FI it would be a recipe for race fixing, so the notion of getting rid of blue flags and having some sort of supposed pure racing is la la land stuff.

For me, this is more important than the fact that dirty air would make it unworkable.

It's a bonehead idea.

[SenorSjon]

I think the modern 3 flag posts to let the driver past is only about 10-15 years old. I vividly remember races in the late 90's where the leader was stuck behind a lapped car for a few laps before passing. I also remember Monaco in the 1990's someone being held up for about 20 laps not able to get past a back marker to lap him.

 

You had Rosset and the likes who only used mirrors to look at his hair.

 

The other one was Coulthard getting stuck behind Bernoldi after he stalled from pole position. No blue flags there.

[Nemo1965]

You had Rosset and the likes who only used mirrors to look at his hair.

 

The other one was Coulthard getting stuck behind Bernoldi after he stalled from pole position. No blue flags there.

 

Ehrmmm... that was for position. So Bernoldi was in no obligation to let Coulthard past, in whatever universe. Except of course that of Ron Dennis who threatened Enrique after the race with the promise to ruin his career.

[Radoye]

Which series specifically?

 

Most similar series in cars and race length is Indycar and they have blue flag rule.

 

It works different in IndyCar. You are free to defend against the leader from going a lap down. Only after you're already a lap down you must not defend against those on the lead lap. I'm fine with that, i think it works better than the current F1 system where the leader already starts moaning about blue flags while still miles away from catching up with the last place car.

 

Of course, for this to work you'd actually need cars that are able to pass.

[Jazza]

The more I think about this the more daft it becomes.

Back in the 80’s and 90’s, the front running cars could be anywhere between 5-10 seconds per lap faster than the tailenders. Part of this was because of the huge power advantage the top teams had. Turbo’s in the 80’s and V10&12’s in the 90’s used to destroy the V8’s used by the little teams down the straight. It made passing easy back then, but these days the cars at the back have the same engines as the ones at the front. More than this, due to their less complex aero, we often see the tailenders with higher top speeds than the front runners. Simply waiting for the straight to pass a lapped car is not an option anymore.

Another issue is the safety car. Back before blue flags the lapped cars had no advantage in holding back a front running car. There was no way to get that lap back, because even a red flag would result in the race being run under aggregate. Now, staying on the lead lap is an advantage in the event of a safety car, because even when they let lapped cars passed they often don’t catch up to the back of the grid. Unlike 30 years ago, drivers are probabaly more likely to fight the leaders to stay on the same lap now.