58 replies to this topic

[PlatenGlass]

I should start off by saying that I'm no particular Max fan, but it seems to happen a lot now that drivers have problems in FP3 (sometimes of their own making, sometimes not) and they can't get the car ready in time for qualifying. It seems a rather odd state of affairs, and I'm sure it never used to be the case. I think Alonso had the same thing at Monaco in 2010, and that's the first case I can remember, but it seems to have become more and more common since then. The rules about getting rid of spare cars came in in 2003 I think, and it didn't seem a problem initially - like for seven years.

But anyway, I don't think it's a good thing. I think there should be enough time between sessions for teams to sort their cars out. There's only one free practice session on Saturday, so why does it need to be so close to qualifying?

[Risil]

It's a shame to lose cars from qualifying because of a problem in an untimed practice session. So yeah, hold the damn session at 7am.

[P123]

No.... unless there is some regular occurrence of drivers not being able to quali because of an FP3 issue, but I can't recall many.

[Seanspeed]

I think it's useful the way it is because FP3 is basically used as a warm-up to qualifying, and the quicker the qualifying happens after FP3, the more the conditions will remain relevant for all the preparation teams and drivers did in FP3. 

[Muppetmad]

No. As has been mentioned, FP3 conditions need to be vaguely representative to aid preparations for qualifying, and if any driver bins it to the extent that their team cannot repair the car in time for qualifying, then that is unfortunate but self-inflicted.

Edited by Muppetmad, 26 May 2018 - 16:42.

[SonGoku]

I don't think so, Max needs to learn a hard lesson. If you take risks in FP3, then it's on the driver to face the consequences.

[TheManAlive]

Bring back warmup on Sunday. Get rid of parc ferme

[Vielleicht]

I say no. Should be all part of the game that protecting your car so you don't end up in situations like Max did today will benefit you. Risk verses reward is and should be a big part of motorsport.

[scheivlak]

I say no. Bring back spare cars.

[Atreiu]

Nops.

[engineblock1]

Not every driver is Max Verstappen, therefore, it makes no sense to increase the gap. And I doubt this is even possible due to operational limitations. What about GP2, and giving a decent break between qualifying and race

[savvy2210]

Bit of a shame.

 

One of the few circuits without acres of run off to take advantage of and someone wants more time if a driver bins it.

 

It's the same for everyone, would this be a topic if it was Stroll or someone else at the back of the field. 

[Kalmake]

It's usually enough time. As I understood they would have made it today too if they had started changing the gearbox right away instead of trying to avoid grid penalty.

[Massa]

No

[wingwalker]

No way. There's a risk of mechanics not making it in time with the repairs in case of a crash and it's the same for everyone, it's part of the game.

[Brian60]

They all know the risk of pushing too hard in FP3 and the consequences of a major accident needing time to repair the damage.

 

Given that, there is no need to push to the absolute limit which is what Verstappen was doing - again! If you want to push to the limit do it during quali. Even in quali I never understood why they all go hell for leather to top the leaderboard in q1 and q2, just get a time that gets you through to q3, then lay it all on the line to be top dog.

[Eff1]

No I don’t recall the current format ever being a problem (most of the time).

Slightly OT but I’d get rid of Fri practice - adds very little to the weekend entertainment.

[BuddyHolly]

No, certainly not.

[SlipLtd]

Max should keep a bigger gap between his car and the guardrail.

[CharlesWinstone]

Time is to short. The time should be long enough to change the engine, gear box and suspension parts wthout time pressure which is not the case now. Remember Ricciardo's a few weeks back. They just managed with just a minute to spare.

[PayasYouRace]

It’s a shame to lose any competitor from a qualifying session or a race, but there’s only so much time in a day too.

[Garndell]

If anything it should be shorter, if you can't keep it on the track you deserve to suffer the consequences.

[sportyskells]

Have the OP forgot something, the support races that needs to take place 

[PlatenGlass]

Have the OP forgot something, the support races that needs to take place

The events on track would still be the same; they would just be in a different order.

[djparky]

Nope- it's up to the drivers to not throw it into the crash barriers

[pdac]

If anything, they should get rid of FP3 (and maybe FP1 too).

[Fastcake]

Well if you want there to be consequences for minor mistakes, Monaco is the ideal track.

 

There's only so much of a gap you could create anyway. There's always the possibility a FP3 crash will be bad enough they still couldn't get the car out with an extra hour.

[PistolPete]

It's a shame to lose cars from qualifying because of a problem in an untimed practice session. So yeah, hold the damn session at 7am.

 

P3 wouldn't be worth much for the team if it is held under completely different temperatures. 

[Mila]

 

. . . the quicker the qualifying happens after FP3, the more the conditions will remain relevant . . .

 

Yup. Otherwise there's no point in holding FP3.

 

(In other words, what PistolPete said.)

Edited by Mila, 26 May 2018 - 18:57.

[LBDN]

Heres an idea. Why not remove fp3 altogther to make F1 even poorer value for money for the fans who already pay ridiculous amounts as it is to attend the race weekend....

Edited by LBDN, 26 May 2018 - 20:23.

[f12018]

no if  driver makes a mistake and damges the car he should be punished 

[pdac]

Heres an idea. Why not remove fp3 altogther to make F1 even poorer value for money for the fans who already pay ridiculous amounts as it is to attend the race weekend....

 

Or put something else on for the fans.

[Otaku]

Bring back Friday qualifying.

[SenorSjon]

Verstappen Monza 2015. Had a PU failure in FP3. Came to the track with half the screws missing from the hood in the dying minutes from Q1.

Ricciardo in China this year.

Hartley last race after a FP3 crash.
Sainz in Russia 2015 after a FP3 crash

These are from the topvof my head. It occurs quite often.

[LBDN]

Or put something else on for the fans.

Like what? If you attend an F1 event you will know most people rarely watch the support series so unless it's F1, people won't be interested in whatever non F1 related thing you put on

Edited by LBDN, 26 May 2018 - 21:58.

[PiperPa42]

Verstappen Monza 2015. Had a PU failure in FP3. Came to the track with half the screws missing from the hood in the dying minutes from Q1.

Ricciardo in China this year.

Hartley last race after a FP3 crash.
Sainz in Russia 2015 after a FP3 crash

These are from the topvof my head. It occurs quite often.

 

Seems like team Bull needs to either hire drivers who doesn't bin the car or mechanics who can fix the car faster.

[RacingGreen]

I say no. Bring back spare cars.

 

I agree. The teams got rid of spare cars because of the expense but they take more than a car's worth of spares with them so why not assemble them Wednesday or Thursday into an actual car. Maybe a couple of the mechanics would have to get there a day earlier and need an extra nights hotel room - not really much of an expense in a $100M budget. F1 as a whole doesn't seem to understand the concept that nothing is really a saving if you spend the money on something else anyway. 

Also it used to be interesting if a driver had to race in a car set up for his teammate.

[loki]

Would this question have been asked if the driver in question was someone like Grosjean, LeClerc or Sirotkin?

[w1Y]

How about having a third car which enters parc ferme before p1 so if you bin it you get a car so you can run but your set up is compromised

[SlipLtd]

^ Why make things more complicated than they need to be? Look, today a driver crashed his car and compromised his qualification. Thats more or less the same result sans all the convolution.

[Tsarwash]

Verstappen Monza 2015. Had a PU failure in FP3. Came to the track with half the screws missing from the hood in the dying minutes from Q1.

Ricciardo in China this year.

Hartley last race after a FP3 crash.
Sainz in Russia 2015 after a FP3 crash

These are from the topvof my head. It occurs quite often.

Don't crash in FP3. Nobody is forcing you to drive that quickly. It is a practice session. 

[BalanceUT]

It's a shame to lose cars from qualifying because of a problem in an untimed practice session. So yeah, hold the damn session at 7am.

The session is not untimed. If the actual qualifying session doesn't occur, the timing from FP3 is used for setting the grid, as I understand things. 

[baddog]

No, stay out of the walls if you want 4 wheels for qualy.

[PayasYouRace]

The events on track would still be the same; they would just be in a different order.

 

The support races also need time between sessions, and being generally less experienced drivers, probably need more time between sessions.

[owenmahamilton]

If they made the cars less complicated to fix (quick release engine/gearbox) then they could leave the gap between FP3 and Qualifying as it is, if the car is that badly damaged that there just isn't time to fix it then that's the drivers fault for not taking enough care.

[HP]

Leave it as it is. Maybe at a place like Monaco the following isn't the easiest place.

 

Even with a top car to do some damage limitation for the championship usually means a driver has to show his mettle. In that regards it's even helping a driver to hone his skills. If he fails, well that just shows even more that he has to work on his skills.

 

Adding time to fix the car doesn't help anyone. All what is produced to shield drivers from their consequences, is raising spoiled brats. In the interest of a more mature and more skilled championship there need to be consequences, even if the cause was just an honest mistake.

 

Look at what happened in F1 after the spare car was banned. To me it seemed less start crashes, less mechanical failures at the start (engineers had to raise their game too), and in the interest of avoiding really nasty shunts, like those that claimed lives in the past, they introduced anti stall. Everyone from the governing body, teams, drivers had to step up their skills. Now that is cool IMO. Adding time to fix cars doesn't help anyone. It's just wasting time, the competitor's, teammate's, folk at the track. What for?

 

Furthermore what about applying an automatic grid penalty? One shunt in practice/qualy gets an automatic 3 place grid penalty, in the race some other penalty. Sounds outlandish? Well in some countries, some even first class, when someone is causing an accident he is getting a fine for "not mastering their vehicle".  Certainly not popular, even more discussion will follow, but if it helps to eliminate unnecessary accidents in the long run, why not?

Edited by HP, 27 May 2018 - 07:43.

[LBDN]

Don't crash in FP3. Nobody is forcing you to drive that quickly. It is a practice session.

Exactly. Essentially it is also the practicing of not crashing. Which Verstappen failed at and as such has to put up with the consequences.

[Muzzyf1]

You would only want this if your driver crashed

[Ospif1]

F1 is not meant to be easy.

[string158]

No. Its relatively rare that a drive won't take part in quali because of an issue in fp3.


When I saw the title to this thread I though it was asking about lap times.