22 replies to this topic

[Fat Boy]

...and stuffs it in front of God and everyone.

 

https://www.speedcaf...g-indycar-race/

 

What a complete bell-end.

[Fat Boy]

From the corporate website:

 

"A lifelong auto enthusiast, Reuss is a certified industry pool test driver on the North Course of the Nürburgring Motorsport Racetrack in Germany, and is licensed for FIA C and IMSA Road Racing. His first car was a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, which he bought and restored himself."

 

Yet, he was spinning tires all the way into the wall and let the car roll back in front of everyone. The douche is strong with this one. I'm guessing he may be a legacy acquisition via Lloyd Reuss?

[desmo]

I was watching that race. My thoughts vacillated between contemptuous derision and embarrassed pity for the driver. Mostly the former. In the end though, letting unqualified pseudo-celebrities drive the pace car and whatever follows from that is the fault of whomever made that flaky decision. 

[Greg Locock]

about 2 minutes in.

 

 

Ah, expert driver syndrome. Did he have the TC or ESC switched off (I'm guessing yes)? 

[sblick]

Reuss is a very good driver.  From a friend who has been at a test track with him.  My friend is certified by European and American manufacturers.  In the realm of race car drivers I would call them 90% there if a very competent F2 or F3 driver is 100%.  I do not know why they would turn off ESC or TC in the car.  There really is no benefit to it with the way it is tuned.  That car is insanely capable with ESC on.  Now, most drivers from IndyCar say that corner is very difficult and you have to be very careful with pedal apply there.  If you read there are several quotes from IndyCar drivers saying they weren't surprised it happened there.  Of course, he could have been in bozo mode, but I don't think he ever will again in a Pace Car on national TV.  I feel sorry for him, but it is tempered by the fact he could have been trying to show off.  Only two people know that answer.

I do have one question is that those Corvettes have a data aq system in them for tracks and I was wondering if it was on or not.  If so they could release the trace and prove there was no shenanigans possibly.  GM does have "customer" days there where they give rides in CTS and ATS-Vs so he may have a lot of laps under his belt there.

[jcbc3]

Maybe having a real race driver in the pace/safety car isn't such a bad idea anyway?

I also noticed that he was in shirt and nice pants, instead of safety equipped like Bernd. Time for some re-think chez Indycar, I would think.

[Fat Boy]

Reuss is a very good driver.  From a friend who has been at a test track with him.  My friend is certified by European and American manufacturers.  In the realm of race car drivers I would call them 90% there if a very competent F2 or F3 driver is 100%.  I do not know why they would turn off ESC or TC in the car.  There really is no benefit to it with the way it is tuned.  That car is insanely capable with ESC on.  Now, most drivers from IndyCar say that corner is very difficult and you have to be very careful with pedal apply there.  If you read there are several quotes from IndyCar drivers saying they weren't surprised it happened there.  Of course, he could have been in bozo mode, but I don't think he ever will again in a Pace Car on national TV.  I feel sorry for him, but it is tempered by the fact he could have been trying to show off.  Only two people know that answer.

I do have one question is that those Corvettes have a data aq system in them for tracks and I was wondering if it was on or not.  If so they could release the trace and prove there was no shenanigans possibly.  GM does have "customer" days there where they give rides in CTS and ATS-Vs so he may have a lot of laps under his belt there.

 

He flat wadded a car up in front of a worldwide audience. He did so while spinning the tires all the way to the wall then let the car roll back in front of the crowd following him. The first thing you learn at Skippy School is "Gonna spin? 2 feet in..." He didn't even do that. He's not a 'very good driver' and he's not even remotely close to the capability of a reasonable F2 or F3 driver.

 

I haven't spoken to the IndyCar drivers, but I'd guess he was showing off all the way around the track. He clearly had TC and ESC off and was being an idiot, at least in that corner. Truth is, you never get bit by a car the first time you do something stupid. It's always after doing several things stupid. The last thing I feel is sorry for him. As far as releasing data to 'prove no shenanigans', WTF are you even talking about? He wrote a car off on a parade lap. Unless you are trying to show some massive 'unintended acceleration' problem in the software, there were shenanigans. It's blatantly bloody obvious.

 

Is turn 2 relatively difficult? Yes, at racing speed it is. In an IndyCar it's about a 115 mph corner and there is a bumpy crest just as you're exiting the corner. If you're at full chat _all_ corners are difficult. He was on a parade lap at ~45 mph. There is absolutely no excuse for stuffing a car in that situation. Clearly, the Peter Principle is in play here.

[Fat Boy]

 

 

 

Ah, expert driver syndrome. Did he have the TC or ESC switched off (I'm guessing yes)? 

 

100%

[Fat Boy]

Maybe having a real race driver in the pace/safety car isn't such a bad idea anyway?

I also noticed that he was in shirt and nice pants, instead of safety equipped like Bernd. Time for some re-think chez Indycar, I would think.

 

He was just driving the parade lap. Bernd actually hustles the car. Just don't let a complete moron do the job and you'll be fine.

[jcbc3]

oh dear. even worse then.

[Oho]

Incidentally I felt for the guys actually racing, I doubt many of them had intact fillings in their teeth after that. 

Edited by Oho, 05 June 2018 - 16:51.

[Greg Locock]

"My friend is certified by European and American manufacturers."

 

So'm I. It doesn't make me a good circuit driver. In fact my main attribute is that I drive in a repeatable manner and I notice things. That is useful, but doesn't automatically mean I can drive with the electronic aids off any better than average. Executives are coached to not bend the metal, if they bang a proto up doing some stupid stunt then that can delay a program by weeks, or if they damage an important part, 3 months. The only excuse here is that he was in a production car which is worth peanuts in comparison, the only damage is to his pride.  I've heard of plenty of managers who think they can drive and get unstuck. It got to the point where we introduced a local driving test for overseas visitors after somebody rolled an SUV with my manager in it. The sound of dripping fuel seems to have unnerved him somewhat. That driver was certified by European and American manufacturers as well. 

 

OTOH Reuss did a good job at Holden in the Government Motors era.

[sblick]

Greg I believe you.  My friend has to tune Stability Control for Auto Manufactures.  He has to establish the limits of the car with systems off and then exceed those limits by a percentage that the manufacturers establish with system on.  I am sure you are familiar with this.  It means he is not just driving, he is constantly driving the limits with and without drivers aids. 

If Reuss was indeed driving 45 mph "Parade Lap" he is not very smart, and will join the chorous of "FatBoy" above.  When I read the story they made it seem like Reuss was doing more than a "Parade Lap".  The IndyCar drivers made it sound like he was doing a faster Pace Lap.  Reuss is fully capable of driving that car at speed he just choked it. 

[Fat Boy]

sblick, just look at the vid Greg posted.

 

1. It's not F1. In IndyCar a pace lap is not done with the road car at full chat. The idea is to run a 60mph lap average.

 

2. The Pace Car had it's lights on, lights go off the lap prior to a start/restart and the speed increases somewhat. The Pace car only really picks it up after releasing the field and heading for pit lane. At Detroit, this would be after turn 10.

 

3. There was a 2-seater IndyCar and 4 other sedans ahead of him.

[sblick]

Admittedly the only thing I saw was him nosing in.  I then read some quotes from the drivers in the field.  I agree FatBoy he was being an idiot.  Although, I still contend the car is not above his head when it comes to driving it.

[DogEarred]

Not really an original opinion, I'm sure but the whole idea of running multiple 'course cars', double seaters and celebraties in front of a field of highly charged competitors always struck me as irresponsible at the least.

[Fat Boy]

Not really an original opinion, I'm sure but the whole idea of running multiple 'course cars', double seaters and celebraties in front of a field of highly charged competitors always struck me as irresponsible at the least.

 

Honestly, it's no big deal. It only becomes a big deal when some celebrity wants to show off and that's pretty rare.

 

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'highly charged competitors'. They're professionals doing a job and this portion of it is about as stressful as a The Rolling Stones doing a sound-check.

[Fat Boy]

Complete side note, sblick. You had some free time on 9/11 so you signed up on the Atlas F1 forum or did that date somehow get manipulated?

[sblick]

Maybe needed a little sunshine that day or night.  I could have done it in the morning also before it hit the news full bore, being on Eastern Time.  I don't think it was manipulated.

[sblick]

In the 80's with CART, when all the manufacturers had Pace Cars, after Quali they would give out sponsor rides.  I don't know how accurate my timing was but I thought I had Gurney and Andretti doing laps close to 170 at Michigan.  If I remember correctly it was only them.  The other drivers seemed to be doing 130-150.  Still a lot, and all of them no helmets or fire suits.  Gurney's Supra's hood looked like it was sucked up 3 inches in the middle.  A definite black hole between fender and hood.

Maybe now IndyCar will look at this incident and say no more.  They were awfully lucky both of them had minor injuries.  Generally the passenger knows the risk but if someone gets hospitalized and permanently hurt are they just going to accept it.  I think a large Court Reward will be waiting for them. 

Anybody know of other series that let people do this?  If no one else does, it definitely sets a precedent, especially if it doesn't happen in high level racing.

[DogEarred]

Honestly, it's no big deal. It only becomes a big deal when some celebrity wants to show off and that's pretty rare.


 
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'highly charged competitors'. They're professionals doing a job and this portion of it is about as stressful as a The Rolling Stones doing a sound-check.

Yes, the drivers are professionals but it seems the organizers are not.

[Fat Boy]

In the 80's with CART, when all the manufacturers had Pace Cars, after Quali they would give out sponsor rides.  I don't know how accurate my timing was but I thought I had Gurney and Andretti doing laps close to 170 at Michigan.  If I remember correctly it was only them.  The other drivers seemed to be doing 130-150.  Still a lot, and all of them no helmets or fire suits.  Gurney's Supra's hood looked like it was sucked up 3 inches in the middle.  A definite black hole between fender and hood.

Maybe now IndyCar will look at this incident and say no more.  They were awfully lucky both of them had minor injuries.  Generally the passenger knows the risk but if someone gets hospitalized and permanently hurt are they just going to accept it.  I think a large Court Reward will be waiting for them. 

Anybody know of other series that let people do this?  If no one else does, it definitely sets a precedent, especially if it doesn't happen in high level racing.

 

They've done it forever. At the end of the day, big racing is a chance to schmooze-up big money and make corporate buddies. It's all about business $$$.

 

Since about 2000 or so they've kind of kept the lid on speeds. At Fontana that year Andrew Bordin backed a NSX in real good. He broke his back ending his own career and hurt a business exec reasonably bad as well (from Honda, maybe?).

 

All that is a different subject from the pre-race parade lap and a lot of series allow it.

[ralt12]

He flat wadded a car up in front of a worldwide audience. He did so while spinning the tires all the way to the wall then let the car roll back in front of the crowd following him. The first thing you learn at Skippy School is "Gonna spin? 2 feet in..." He didn't even do that. He's not a 'very good driver' and he's not even remotely close to the capability of a reasonable F2 or F3 driver.

 

I haven't spoken to the IndyCar drivers, but I'd guess he was showing off all the way around the track. He clearly had TC and ESC off and was being an idiot, at least in that corner. Truth is, you never get bit by a car the first time you do something stupid. It's always after doing several things stupid. The last thing I feel is sorry for him. As far as releasing data to 'prove no shenanigans', WTF are you even talking about? He wrote a car off on a parade lap. Unless you are trying to show some massive 'unintended acceleration' problem in the software, there were shenanigans. It's blatantly bloody obvious.

 

Is turn 2 relatively difficult? Yes, at racing speed it is. In an IndyCar it's about a 115 mph corner and there is a bumpy crest just as you're exiting the corner. If you're at full chat _all_ corners are difficult. He was on a parade lap at ~45 mph. There is absolutely no excuse for stuffing a car in that situation. Clearly, the Peter Principle is in play here.

 

For a minute there I thought I wrote this....