183 replies to this topic

[Borko]

Last few weeks I've been watching races from 1999 and I am actually fascinated how exciting it was. Since Risil has stated that threads like this one are now allowed, I'd like to hear your opinion about 1999.

IMO, it was amazing. Anything could have happened any second in Q or races. McLaren fastest by far, but unable to convert the speed into victories on so many occassions. Irvine becoming a championship contender out of nowhere. Hakkinen's mistakes. Rain-affected races. Jordan producing a race-winning car. Johnny Herbert winning a race. Ron Dennis applying 'no number 1 driver" policy that almost cost him the championship. Schumacher effectively becoming a no2 driver when he returned. Barge boards controversy in Malaysia. Basically, there wasn't a race which didn't contain excitement. 11 drivers from seven teams on the podium.

[sopa]

Yay, thanks to the new rules of RC!

 

Yep, it was quite a topsy-turvy season. Almost like 2008. It had two clear top teams, but both of them were busy underperforming. McLaren should have snapped the championships up, especially after Michael's injury, but they made hard work of it. Still I wonder, how the hell did they manage to lose WCC. Ferrari started struggling more and more after Michael's injury, at least their qualifying positions went further backwards with almost each race weekend.

 

But a good year for some underdogs. Frentzen was consistent collecting 3rds and 4ths on a regular basis, and won two races when the opportunity presented itself to stay within striking distance of leaders.

 

Good season for Stewart too. For a good while it looked like they weren't really maximizing their potential with cars suffering lots of reliability problems and Herbert struggling a lot. But they made up for it with the Nurburgring race. A bit like Jordan in 1998 at Spa, which helped them to P4 in the Constructors.

 

Oh, and a very promising season for Ralfy-boy in the Williams. He looked like a future champion that year.

 

Also one story of the year - new BAR team with a world champion JV driving it. But ended up even behind Minardi and Arrows in the championship. 

 

The European GP of that year is an all-time classic. Three out of four title contenders up at the front, with Irvine chasing the lead group down, and then it went all pear-shaped for everybody. French GP was memorable too. So many changes during the race, with Frentzen taking an opportunistic victory on a different strategy.

[Ellios]

A little review to refresh our memories :

 

Edited by Ellios, 09 June 2018 - 07:52.

[Borko]

Yeah, at the end, after all schocking moments during the season, maybe the most shocking was how was McLaren able to lose WCC, while having a car that was capable of winning every race?! Mercedes' engine was quite unreliable, Mika losing victories in San Marino and Monza due to his own mistakes, colission in Austria are some of the reasons.

Edited by Borko, 09 June 2018 - 07:55.

[Arundo]

Ah yes the dreaded 1999 season for a Jos Verstappen fan, his first "break" season because he could not find a seat after the Stewart season replacing Jan Magnussen. 

 

But yes a good season with many different teams / drivers on top during the season. No real dominant team and Schumachers crash mixing up the season. 

 

PS Good old Hockenheim.... why did they ever change that...

[f1paul]

I always remember this chaotic race... 

[P123]

Mika and McLaren should have walked the 1999 season. I guess we can thank them for having the sort of patchy season that were it replicated today would get driver and team a resounding slating. At least two wins lost to unreliability, and another two binned in the barriers when he had sizeable leads. It was great to see Jordan winning and HHF resurrect himself from his rotten Williams days. And Stewart won a rollercoaster of a race, although I think Rubens taking the team's debut victory would have been more fitting.

[sopa]

I always remember this chaotic race... 

 

This sounds like "grass was greener back in the day", but you don't get races like this these days any more.

[f1paul]

Frenzten could have won this race and been well within title contention as well. 

[Disgrace]

When you look back at it, this race was the point at which the Jordan story took a permanent downturn. It was also the race that got me hooked on F1. So thanks. Also, curses.

[H0R]

By far the most hilarious moment: Hakkinen qualifying on pole for Monaco - under yellow. And getting away with it by casually taking away a hand from the wheel and waving towards the marshals. 

 

Edited by H0R, 09 June 2018 - 09:21.

[Jordan199]

1999! I remember loving all of the craziness this season. I was a fan of Jordan via Damon Hill initially (Belgium 98 helped obv), and I enjoyed Frentzen being an outside title contender that season as well, hence my username. 

 

This was back in the days when races with few cars finishing could still happen, and the underdogs could get their day. 

 

Schumacher going off at Silverstone was a bit heart-stopping when it happened initially.

[Risil]

Mika and McLaren should have walked the 1999 season. I guess we can thank them for having the sort of patchy season that were it replicated today would get driver and team a resounding slating. At least two wins lost to unreliability, and another two binned in the barriers when he had sizeable leads. It was great to see Jordan winning and HHF resurrect himself from his rotten Williams days. And Stewart won a rollercoaster of a race, although I think Rubens taking the team's debut victory would have been more fitting.

 

It reminds me a bit of the 2008 season, as Sopa said, although I feel that there the Ferrari and McLaren teams had the excuse of being locked in an extremely pressurized and emotional battle.

 

Funny how all Eddie Irvine's victories came in 1999 too.

[Massa_f1]

It was a good season even though my favourite driver (Schumacher) got injured and missed half of the season.

I remember more moments from 1999 than hybrid era put together. You just never knew what kind of race you were going to get.

 

I think Schumacher may of easily won the title that year had he not had his accident, but who knows maybe Mika would of been more focused and got more out of his McLaren had Schumacher still been a contender.

 

Only other big disappointment in 1999 was Hill's performances. He should of had a few podiums with that Jordan.

[PapaD]

Was this the season when Coulthard survived the plane crash then had an an amazing win in France a few days later, giving Schumi the fingers en route?

[Borko]

Massa_F1, I think Hill wanted to retire mid-season already, but they didn't allow him.

Barrichello was great in 1999, probably the biggest injustice from 1999 is that his great season was overshadowed by Herbert's victory, and Johnny was usually far away from Barrichello.

[Borko]

Was this the season when Coulthard survived the plane crash then had an an amazing win in France a few days later, giving Schumi the fingers en route?

No, that was in 2000. Plane accident happened prior to Spanish GP 2000, and finger thing happened in France like you said, four races later.

[Yamamoto]

Was this the season when Coulthard survived the plane crash then had an an amazing win in France a few days later, giving Schumi the fingers en route?

 

I think that was the year after. 

[Loosenut]

My 1st attendance at an F1 race was the Spanish GP in 1999, seated at turn 1. I actually made a thread in the nostalgia forum about that race, hoping someone could explain what I was seeing & hearing. I could close my eyes and tell you every time which car was Michael Schumacher. It sounded like he switched off his engine as he entered the corner, no coughing and spluttering of downshifts like all the others and then BANG! back into life on exit. Still not sure exactly why or what he was doing, but it was definitely very different, even from Eddie.

I think statistically the most eventless race ever, Hill on a cruising Barricello for 7th on last lap.

Great year for Frentzen and Jordan, he was a real hero in '99!

Edited by Loosenut, 09 June 2018 - 11:37.

[PayasYouRace]

A season I didn't get to see as much of as I would have liked, having just got properly into F1 a couple of years before.

 

It was one of those incredibly competitive years where everyone was under enormous pressure, hence mistakes from even the leading drivers. There were 3 big disappointments for me that year.

 

The first being Damon's struggles, and with the benefit of hindsight Jordan should have let him retire on his own terms after Silverstone. Frentzen's pace in the other Jordan was impressive though. He redeemed himself a bit after his Williams years.

 

The second being BAR. While it would be foolish to think they could have won races or anything, the car had decent pace at times, and Villeneuve was driving as well as he'd ever had. His performance in Spain should have been rewarded with at least some points.

 

The third was Alex Zanardi's F1 comeback. That he struggled so much was such a shame. Wiliams were effectively a 1 car team that year with Ralf.

 

Herbert winning at the Nurburgring in the Stewart was a high point, and I generally remember that year as having a very colourful and interesting grid. Schumacher's injury made things interesting, and allowed Mika Salo a moment in the spotlight.

[Gabrci]

I remember this season very well for all sorts of different reasons, many of which has been mentioned already. Zanardi's still unexplained struggles culminating in a retirement on the first lap or so in Japan, his great drive and start at Monza, Herbert winning at the Nürburgring, Badoer crying, Jordan outsmarting everyone in France, Salo being the man at Hockenheim and then a backmarker in Hungary, Diniz getting away a month after Wouter van Eeuwijk was not so lucky with the same, Barrichello leading in Brazil, Takagi's madness at Monza, Fisichella losing the victory at the Nürburgring in the most fisicellesque way, a Minardi passing Zanardi at Hockenheim, the weird way Ferrari was not disqualified at Sepang, Häkkinen's massive blowout in Germany, Irvine's huge lock-up at the Nürburgring which cost him the title, being 100% sure that Schumacher could easily have won in Japan if he had wanted to (I'm still sure of that 20 years later). I probably forgot many more. 

 

The overwhelming feeling though is that the only man who would have deserved to win that season was sitting at home with his leg in plaster. Häkkinen drove like a fast amateur, Coulthard like a slow amateur, Irvine managed to rise to the occasion surprisingly well and was the only frontrunner who looked like a professional sportsperson but his skill gaps were all too obvious. I think Brundle summed up the whole season towards the end of the race at Sepang when he said something like "let's just put this in perspective, this man has spent the whole afternoon trying to go slowly and he is now leading the race by 7 seconds...". I didn't know what to make of Häkkinen winning such a bleak title, perhaps Irvine winning would have been even worse. Putting it into perspective, this was soon after Hill's and particularly Villeneuve's thoroughly unconvincing titles, so looking back now I assume the feeling at that time was that this was bleak but only two years earlier even Villeneuve was world champion, so considering that it's not so bad after all. It's just considering the Senna/Prost/Mansell years before or the Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton years after that 1999 feels so low-key in terms of performance level needed to win the title.

[Risil]

My 1st attendance at an F1 race was the Spanish GP in 1999, seated at turn 1. I actually made a thread in the nostalgia forum about that race, hoping someone could explain what I was seeing & hearing. I could close my eyes and tell you every time which car was Michael Schumacher. It sounded like he switched off his engine as he entered the corner, no coughing and spluttering of downshifts like all the others and then BANG! back into life on exit. Still not sure exactly why or what he was doing, but it was definitely very different, even from Eddie.

 

I am going to take a wild guess and say that it had something to do with the FIA throwing its hands up in frustration and allowing traction control in 2001.

[sopa]

I am going to take a wild guess and say that it had something to do with the FIA throwing its hands up in frustration and allowing traction control in 2001.

 

How much does TC give you in lap-time over no TC?

 

In any case Schumacher's advantage over his team-mate didn't get any smaller once everyone was allowed to use TC.

[Risil]

I dunno, I'm no race engineer, and I'm not making a comment on how good a driver Schumacher was. I certainly don't think the main motive for pushing the limits on Schumacher's car was to spite Eddie Irvine.

[Borko]

Gabrci, nice post, but don't forget that Hakkinen led the championship after Francr by 8 points, Michael Schumacher also had a mistake in Canada and threw away 10 points, just like Hakkinen in San Marino. Hakkinen lost victories in Australia and Germany while doing nothing wrong. It couls have been that he lost a motivation after MSC broke his leg, but last two races actually gave many people the impression that MSC should have won the championship, while in reality he wasn't having particularly great season prior to jis accident. Also, he had no pressure at all when he came back, unlike Hakkinen. Mclaren could have easily won 12 or even 13 races that year.

[Gabrci]

Gabrci, nice post, but don't forget that Hakkinen led the championship after Francr by 8 points, Michael Schumacher also had a mistake in Canada and threw away 10 points, just like Hakkinen in San Marino. Hakkinen lost victories in Australia and Germany while doing nothing wrong. It couls have been that he lost a motivation after MSC broke his leg, but last two races actually gave many people the impression that MSC should have won the championship, while in reality he wasn't having particularly great season prior to jis accident. Also, he had no pressure at all when he came back, unlike Hakkinen. Mclaren could have easily won 12 or even 13 races that year.

 

Yes, this is true, and it's also a fair point that McLaren as a team weren't much more reliable than Häkkinen himself. 

 

I think on top of the last two races, which indeed have a major influence on how people assess that season, it's also because the gap between MS and Irvine was obvious, it was also obvious that for most of the season the McLaren was the better car. And if the solid but unspectacular Eddie Irvine in inferior equipment was able to come sooo close to taking the title, it's easy to imagine what Schumacher would have done. It's a theory of course, we can't know whether Häkkinen and McLaren would have taken their eyes off the ball so much if Schumacher had been around.  

[steferrari]

It would have been nice if Ferrari replaced Michael with Alesi!

[Sterzo]

I think that season illustrated the difference between unpredictable racing and impressive performances. In 1999 there was a lot of the former, and rather less of the latter. Maybe the ideal is to have some seasons of each kind.

[PlayboyRacer]

1999 was an interesting, if unremarkable season. Hakkinen should have walked the championship once Schumacher was out, he had the fastest car and for a World Champion in his 8th or 9th season, some of the mistakes he made were pretty lame. As someone else said, today he'd be lynched.

That said - his drive in Japan was sensational and still, in my mind, he deserved his second world title. Irvine was better than people give him credit but just didn't have the speed at crucial moments.

Frentzen proved how good he could be with little or no expectation on him. Had a great season.

Villeneuve was a criminal waste at BAR and had that car performing well above its level, Imola and Barcelona two standout weekends. It just reinforced what he might have done in a McLaren in what was his prime years.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 09 June 2018 - 13:34.

[NixxxoN]

I always remember this chaotic race... 

Lots of DNFs in the lead, Herbert win, and Gené in a shitty Minardi picked up the last point and held up Irvine in the Ferrari

[R Soul]

I missed the title decider (Japan) because I forgot to set my alarm. I woke up just after the end of the race only because one my cats got into my bed and started chasing her tail.

[Risil]

I missed the title decider (Japan) because I forgot to set my alarm. I woke up just after the end of the race only because one my cats got into my bed and started chasing her tail.

 

Do you think the cat was pleased or annoyed at Irvine's non-delivery of the championship? I assume it knew. Cats are always the first to know.

[Yamamoto]

Do you think the cat was pleased or annoyed at Irvine's non-delivery of the championship? I assume it knew. Cats are always the first to know.

 

I don't suppose she had strong felines about it.

 

Having said that, I imagine she became a supporter of Eddie when he joined Jaguar.

Edited by Yamamoto, 09 June 2018 - 20:35.

[scheivlak]

1As someone else said, today he'd be lynched.

 

Who?

[Otaku]

No DRS makes all the difference.

[GTA]

This was the season when no one wanted to win. So many missed opportunities.

 

As a MSC fan the only things I like to remember were the amazing start in Monaco and the comeback in Malaysia. I would also like to forget THAT pitstop at the Nurburgring. 

[Dan333SP]

‘99 was my first season attending a GP in person (Canada, where I am once again this weekend). Very fond memories of that season, even if MSC binned it from the lead. Le Mans that year was also an all time great as far as factory entries and variety.

[FirstnameLastname]

‘99 was my first season attending a GP in person (Canada, where I am once again this weekend). Very fond memories of that season, even if MSC binned it from the lead. Le Mans that year was also an all time great as far as factory entries and variety.

99 was the season where the moniker ‘wall of champions’ was born.

Makes me sad to think it’s akready 19 years ago, makes a (relatively) young man feel incredibly old. I started properly following F1 in 98 and loved it even though by today’s standard access was ultra limited really. F1Racing mag was actually worth getting and I’d read it cover to cover.

I was 15 in 1999... other notable events including touching my first set of boobs, a milestone in every young lads life 😁

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 09 June 2018 - 22:31.

[Dan333SP]

99 was the season where the moniker ‘wall of champions’ was born.

Makes me sad to think it’s akready 19 years ago, makes a (relatively) young man feel incredibly old.

Yea, felt like yesterday when I was walking the track earlier but I went from a child to a married man with so much more stress. Aging sucks.

[FirstnameLastname]

Yea, felt like yesterday when I was walking the track earlier but I went from a child to a married man with so much more stress. Aging sucks.

It does indeed. Saying that, and not wishing to derail this thread, but the Schumacher in 1999 with his comeback, it’s such a shame to think of how he is a ‘mere’ 19 years later. Very sad.

[Cornholio]

Looking back objectively it was an interesting season. At the time I didnt enjoy it all that much, for the single sole reason of being a Damon Hill fan, so I didnt enjoy his struggles, being beaten by a teammate who in my stroppy teenage mind had stolen his Williams seat made it worse. A season like that nowadays where I have no attachment at all to any driver I'd probably appreciate a bit more.

I did really enjoy that year's Le Mans though, the first I properly followed, and also that year's CART season (up until the final race anyhow)

[Risil]

Looking back objectively it was an interesting season. At the time I didnt enjoy it all that much, for the single sole reason of being a Damon Hill fan, so I didnt enjoy his struggles, being beaten by a teammate who in my stroppy teenage mind had stolen his Williams seat made it worse. A season like that nowadays where I have no attachment at all to any driver I'd probably appreciate a bit more.

I did really enjoy that year's Le Mans though, the first I properly followed, and also that year's CART season (up until the final race anyhow)

 

If you came into the 1999 without attachment to any driver, you might have come out the other end with some strange driver crushes -- probs the standout performers that year were Heinz-Harald Frentzen and Ralf Schumacher.

[William Hunt]

I don't think 1999 that special or particularly exciting, check out the F1 seasons from the '70s or the first half of the '80s: those were exciting days and unpredictable

[PlayboyRacer]

Who?

P123 in post #7, though the word 'lynched' wasn't used. I added that.

Which is true. Even at the time, I thought Mikas glaring errors were glossed over a touch. At the end of the day, he wasn't a polarising character nor one to talk big in public or through the press. Add in his horror accident in 1995 and Hakkinen tends to get an easy ride when people rate drivers/champions of the past.

[Borko]

Mika's 2000 season was better than 1999. But Schumacher was even better.

[PlayboyRacer]

I thought Mika in 2000 was his best season, followed by 1998. Both years he was sensational.

[Jazza]

There is no way Mika would have been lynched if he made those mistakes today. That’s a load of crap! Today he would have just used the tar run off and rejoined in the lead having lost no time at all ;-)

In all seriousness, the unforgiving nature of the tracks back then actually made the championship more exciting. I think I held my breath for most of Suzuka dreading that he would put a wheel a few cm on the grass and take himself out the race. Until they took the flag you just never knew what would happen.

[Eff One 2002]

Some things that I'll always remember the 1999 season for:

 

1. Truly heroic qualifying performances by Jacques Villeneuve in the woefully unreliable and uncompetitive BAR that year of 5th at Imola, 8th at Monaco and 6th at Barcelona. It's a shame the car hardly ever got him to the finish.

2. Michael Schumacher's season ruined with his broken leg at the British GP.

3. Eddie Irvine missing out on the WDC by just 2 points. I wasn't a big Hakkinen fan and with him already having a WDC to his name in 1998, was hoping Irvine would win it.

4. The lucklustre performance of both Damon Hill (his heart just wasn't in it anymore and he couldn't be arsed) and Alex Zanardi, (struggled badly transitioning back to F1 after 2 straight CART championships) who were 2 of my favourite drivers at the time.

5. Heinz-Harald Frentzen's superb performance all season, including 2 wins, giving Damon Hill an extremely humiliating arse-whooping. He must have really been a good fit with Jordan that year. The combination just worked.

6. Johnny Herbert's surprise win at the chaotic European GP.

7. The surprise return of Mika Salo, who didn't have a drive at the start of the season, first replacing Zonta at BAR, then Schumacher at Ferrari. and the fact that Salo could have won the German GP (it would have been his sole victory) but allowed Irvine to pass due to team orders, Irvine having a shot at the WDC.  

 

It certainly was an interesting season.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 10 June 2018 - 09:35.

[Tenmantaylor]

Light V10 screaming cars, so much more exciting to watch around Monaco than the heavy quiet 2018 cars slewing and sliding.

[Jazza]

1. Truly heroic qualifying performances by Jacques Villeneuve in the woefully unreliable and uncompetetive BAR that year of 5th at Imola,8th at Monaco and 6th at Barcelona. It's a shame the car hardly ever got him to the finish.

This is what I always find amazing about that year.

At the time BAR were considered a joke. All talk and no results. Yet by the third race they were best of the rest on the grid behind only McLaren and Ferrari, and with the same engine they were ahead of both Williams and Benetton. They were even less than 1 second off pole! To then be top ten at Monaco and Barcelona (two tracks that couldn’t be more different from each other in terms of car strengths) showed that the car actually had speed.

It’s impossible to imagine a new team showing up in F1 and in 3 races putting in those kind of performances today. The engine was bigger, heavier, and way down on power (as much as 60hp) and yet still got within a second of a McLaren Mercedes over a lap. Had they not over promised they probabaly would have been highly praised.