42 replies to this topic

[H0R]

Following Borko's example, I want to bring your attention to my favourite season in F1.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...mula_One_season

 

F1 in 1967: Many of us will have spent lots of time with Grand Prix Legends and still hold good feelings for this season.

What did it bring us?

First and foremost: Neither wings nor sponsorship liveries. In many ways it was the last “classic” year of F1. In 1966 the engine capacity had been raised to 3 liter, which changed the look of the cars a fair bit. The tires had become wider and the races faster.

 

Reigning world champion Jack Brabham brought an F2 chassis, the BT24 with a REPCO 3l engine bolted in. The car was light enough to bring his team mate Danny Hulme his only driver’s championship.

 

 

 

The most impact in the future development had probably the Lotus 49 which debuted it’s Ford Cosworth engine late in the season at the dutch grand prix. Jim Clark drove this car to wins in Silverstone, Mexico City and Watkins Glen.

 

 

 

Other honorable mentions: The car many fans – me included – consider the most beautiful one in the entire history of F1: the Eagle Weslake, which brought the only win for an American driver in an American car, when Dan Gurney succeeded in Spa.

 

 

 

Ferrari was amidst a late sixties dip in form, didn’t have a win with the 312 and had to mourn F1 only casualty in Monaco when Lorenzo Bandini burnt to death at the harbor chicane.

 

 

 

Other entries were Cooper on their last (?) full season with future champ Jochen Rindt at the wheel, BRM with Jackie Stewart, Honda with 1964 champ John Surtees, who pulled off a win at Monza after one of Jim Clark’s most impressive races and Bruce McLaren driving either for Dan Gurney’s team or bringing his own McLaren M4A and M5B.

 

Mandatory watching: Ford’s 1967 review “9 Days in Summer”:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=H5OBfOcx7CA

Edited by H0R, 09 June 2018 - 10:32.

[PayasYouRace]

While a nice way to start a thread, our decision was for topics of recent history ("the last 20 years or so") to be OK in RC. The last 50 years or so is well beyond that.

 

First of all, thank you for your comments, criticism and advice. We've considered the results of the open threads in RC and TNF and decided that we're going to move ahead carefully along familiar tracks. From now on we will welcome threads about the last 20 years or so of racing right here in the main Racing Comments forum. No new subforum.

 

We're aware that posting about the past in this way has never been explicitly banned, and indeed when such threads have appeared in Racing Comments they've mostly been tolerated. However, we thought it would be useful to clarify this position in the hope of encouraging such topics to be created and discussed.

 

We've agreed on "last 20 years or so" as a deliberately fuzzy sort of boundary. Please think of it more as a guide than a clear-cut rule. As always, the guiding questions when starting a thread should be "Will RC readers be interested in discussing this?", "Will RC readers want to read what I've got to share?"

 

At this point I should mention that Autosport also hosts The Nostalgia Forum (or TNF), a more historically-minded and deliberative forum that's exclusively dedicated to discussion of motor racing past. If you have a historical question you'd like answered or a research interest you want to dive into, you will get a better discussion in there. If you want to poll the Racing Comments regulars on whether Nigel Mansell's Indycar career was a success or disappointment, or who was the standout performer of the 2009 F1 season, then be our guest and open a thread in RC.

 

If you look at the RC House Rules at the top of the forum, you'll see that this is now part of the official RC rules. Happy posting!

 

p.s. Funny how the last comment turns out to be what we're proposing to do. Next time we'll just ring Sterzo...

 

So moved to TNF.

[john winfield]

Very welcome here!  

 

That's a great shot of Clark at Silverstone. Powering out of Becketts perhaps? I wonder who the photographer was.

 

Edit. Having just found a screenshot of pages from a David Tremayne book, I see the photo copyright is LAT/Sutton. The caption says it's Copse, so presumably it's Jim having a bit of fun with the photographers tucked safely behind that one foot high brick wall......

Edited by john winfield, 09 June 2018 - 12:45.

[B Squared]

The most impact in the future development had probably the Lotus 49 which debuted it’s Ford Cosworth engine late in the season at the dutch grand prix. Jim Clark drove this car to wins in Silverstone, Mexico City and Watkins Glen.

Jim Clark and the Cosworth-powered Lotus 49 also won upon debut in the Dutch GP.

[Ray Bell]

Which wasn't so late in the year at all...

Nevertheless, it was a notable year. Denny Hulme's title was well-deserved and the efforts of so many other drivers contributed to some good race results.

[Sterzo]

Am just re-reading Graham Hill's Life at the Limit, in which he comments on his 1967 move to Lotus. He said he accepted that Clark was likely to take precedence as the established man at the team, but that it wasn't like that at all, and he always felt he had equal treatment.

 

On a different note, Denny Hulme had a strange career, and seemed to go off the boil quite early on, which gives us a distorted view as we look back at him through the prism of his later performances. Yet in '67 he was really on it, and not only in F1. Can remember watching his fierce precision in the Brabaham-Honda F2 car, while Jack Brabham scrabbled around untidily trying to keep up.

 

Oh, and culpably off topic: 1967 was maybe the best ever year for pop and rock music.

[Stephen W]

1967 British GP Silverstone was my first visit to that circuit and my first visit to a GP. I was hooked.

[MCS]

1967.  Wow. 

 

A few years ago I bought the twelve issues of Motor Sport for that season - I didn't start collecting until 1971.  Now I have started buying other magazines from then.  It was quite a year and I am enjoying learning about things I didn't know.

 

Wish I could have seen it all in "real life" as it were.  That said, there is so much footage appearing these days maybe it will all come back! 

 

Great idea for a thread - ten out of ten to H0R.  I have many questions, but they will have to wait as I am off to somebody's birthday party - who wasn't even born in 1967.

[charles r]

Am just re-reading Graham Hill's Life at the Limit, in which he comments on his 1967 move to Lotus. He said he accepted that Clark was likely to take precedence as the established man at the team, but that it wasn't like that at all, and he always felt he had equal treatment.

 

Snap, I am re-reading it too and I have to say, it makes you realise how many things broke or fell off the 49 during its debut season in 1967... On another note, inevitably the style of the book seems very dated now and really doesn't reveal too much about the man, more of a brisk walk through his career. Speaking as an NGH fan I hope there might one day be a definitive, in depth biography along the lines of David Tremayne's excellent Jim Clark - The Best of the Best.

[pete53]

On the weekend of the 1967 British GP I was committed to go youth hostelling in Kent in preparation for a school holiday hostelling in Germany. A few days later my Dad informed me that his motor racing fanatic friends had offered me a seat in their car to Silverstone. I'll never know why he needed to tell me, and I was absolutely furious to have discovered that I had missed that opportunity - it still irks

 

I did, however, get to Brands for the Race of Champions in March of that year and witnessed Dan Gurney's very impressive win against a fairly strong field.

 

After a shaky start in 1966 the new 3 litre formula picked up quite well in 1967 although I recall by 1968 grids had declined again with some quite small entries for some Grand Prix.

[Sterzo]

Other honorable mentions: The car many fans – me included – consider the most beautiful one in the entire history of F1: the Eagle Weslake, which brought the only win for an American driver in an American car, when Dan Gurney succeeded in Spa.

If I may split a hair (it's a hobby) Dan had also won the non championship Race of Champions at Brands Hatch. I woz there.

 

 

...inevitably the style of the book seems very dated now and really doesn't reveal too much about the man...

But is extremely entertaining, as you'd expect from Graham Hill.

[Tim Murray]

1967 was indeed a tremendous year, and not just for F1. There was also the wonderful sports car championship featuring one of the best-looking cars ever made, the Ferrari P4, up against the Fords, Porsches, Chaparral 2F etc, the mighty Can-Am series, and in the UK winter the Tasman series to keep us entertained. With one of my favourites, Chris Amon, getting his F1 break with them it was the year I really became a Ferrari fan, staying that way for the next 30 years. I agree about the music, too.

[Vitesse2]

I too would love to see a proper biography of Graham. But do bear in mind that much of Life at the Limit was written/ghosted from Graham's hospital bed while recovering from his Watkins Glen crash - it was very much a 'rush job', in order to get it out for Christmas 1969. Before Watkins Glen I doubt the idea of publishing an autobiography was anywhere near the top of Graham's priority list, but I dare say Kimbers came calling with the promise of a nice big royalty cheque if the book could be finished quickly. It does contain a few errors - both of fact and by omission - and could of course have been a much better book with more time and care lavished upon it, as the later Graham - written with Neil Ewart - proved.

 

Even so, if you compare it to Brabham's When the Flag Drops or Stewart's Jackie Stewart World Champion I think it stands up pretty well. Not sure who ghosted Jack's book, but Stewart's was done by Eric Dymock who is credited as co-author. Its working title was actually Jackie Stewart 69 - as well as a hardback first edition I have an uncorrected proof of it with that title which I picked up on eBay! - but obviously someone at Pelham spotted the double entendre before it went to press.

[Michael Ferner]

1967 - banner year, no doubt!

Some interesting persons born that year, too...

[Geoff E]

It looks a bit like GPL used to ... perhaps a "beta" version of a track before the scenery had been added.

https://youtu.be/Opzzn9sl1kU

Edited by Geoff E, 09 June 2018 - 19:50.

[Tim Murray]

Some interesting persons born that year, too...

 

Indeed: Tom Kristensen, Buddy Lazier, Gil de Ferran, Heinz-Harald Frentzen ...

Now who might I have forgotten?   

[Collombin]

Indeed: Tom Kristensen, Buddy Lazier, Gil de Ferran, Heinz-Harald Frentzen ...

Now who might I have forgotten?   

 

Well, Vanilla Ice for starters, which kind of ****s up the concept of it being a great year for music.

[john winfield]

 

On a different note, Denny Hulme had a strange career, and seemed to go off the boil quite early on, which gives us a distorted view as we look back at him through the prism of his later performances. Yet in '67 he was really on it, and not only in F1. Can remember watching his fierce precision in the Brabaham-Honda F2 car, while Jack Brabham scrabbled around untidily trying to keep up.

 

 

 

Denny kept on picking up the odd win in the years after his Championship, and he was a title contender in 1968, but in 1973 he really looked the business. Some of the time anyway. The M23 seemed to perk him up, but I think witnessing the aftermath of Peter Revson's fatal crash in early 1974 took away the competitive edge of what could have been a very successful season. 

 

What I like about the 1967 season is that, although the key players seem to have been the two Brabhams and the phenomenal new Lotus, there was still room for the occasional surprise. I think most people (except John Love, Black Jack etc.) enjoyed the wins for Pedro/ Cooper-Maserati, Gurney/Eagle and Surtees/Honda. I suppose that most seasons throughout the sixties and seventies, and even later, had room for the unexpected, with mechanical unreliability obviously being a factor. But, for those of us who still watch modern Formula 1, it's depressing to find that, as far as I can see, it's five and a half years since a Grand Prix was won by a team outside the current big three of Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari. And nowadays five and a half years means well over a hundred Grand Prix. Without one real surprise!

 

 

Removes rose-tinted specs and pours another glass of red.

[robjohn]

    Yes; 1967 was a great year, and when I refound my boyhood interest in motor-racing.
    It wasn't Cooper's last year – the works team did race throughout 1968 – but 1967 was when it had its last GP win, with Pedro and the old Maserati V12 engine in South Africa.
    A second transition year, and a fascinating one.

    Rob J

 

[PayasYouRace]

I remember reading the intro to the GPL manual. Papyrus explained why they chose to model 1967 in their sim. They didn’t want to model the 1.5 l formula, so it had to be 1966 or later. But from 1968 inwards aerodynamics became important and wings started appearing. The wanted to avoid that and their reasons had to do with the unspoiled nature of the cars, but I suspect they wanted to simplify their job and focus purely on a detailed mechanical engine. Given the computing power available at the time that’s understandable. So that left 66 or 67, and 66 had fewer races and fewer fully developed 3 l engines.

I guess they identified 67 as a very special season and I can understand why those who experienced it would remember it fondly.

[D28]

1967 was indeed a tremendous year, and not just for F1. There was also the wonderful sports car championship featuring one of the best-looking cars ever made, the Ferrari P4, up against the Fords, Porsches, Chaparral 2F etc, the mighty Can-Am series, and in the UK winter the Tasman series to keep us entertained. With one of my favourites, Chris Amon, getting his F1 break with them it was the year I really became a Ferrari fan, staying that way for the next 30 years. I agree about the music, too.

Agreed, 1967 offered a trove of riches for the racing enthusiast; its hard to believe looking back half a century how varied the competition was. In addition to series mentioned, in N America we had Trans-Am hitting its stride, a fabulous entry at Indy, USRRC , NASCAR and others. The inaugural F1 Canadian Grand Prix took place and caught on, being presented every year since, save a couple of misses over money squabbles.

 

All this racing and none of it was easily available on TV at least where I lived. Results had to be gleaned from magazines as there was little coverage in newspapers at the time. This served only to heighten the interest for real enthusiasts. Races were all presented at racing circuits and people were expected to drive to see them. The concept of temporary street circuits, bringing the races to the spectators was somewhere over the horizon. Street circuits consisted of Monaco and maybe Trois-Rivieres just beginning.and billing itself as the Monaco of N America.

 

Most people list events of their youth as the best or greatest and it doesn't resonate with others, still 1967 was definitely a major time for racing fans. And the look of the cars, as others have pointed out the  F1 Eagle is very hard to top.

[Ray Bell]

1967 was also the first year a V8 won the annual Bathurst endurance race...

I'm not sure where the Tasman Cup was standing at this time. David McKinney insisted that the International participation in 'down under' racing declined from 1962, and he made a good case for that, but it was still pretty sparkly to most of us in '67 as Brabham ran a 2-car team with Repco V8 engines against BRM and Lotus V8 opposition.

[Cirrus]

The chance to see top line GP drivers close(ish) to home must have been very special.

[opplock]

Indeed it was! Jack Brabham didn't race at Levin in 67 but we did see a double world champion, the man who became WC later that year and a future winner of 3 world championships. Plus a future Le Mans winner.    

[William Hunt]

a great year but... for me also a terrible year because of what happened to Bandini in Monaco...

[Sterzo]

As H0R (to whom thanks for the thread are due) said in the opening post: "F1 in 1967...  what did it bring us? First and foremost: Neither wings nor sponsorship liveries. In many ways it was the last “classic” year of F1."

 

Like the rear engined revolution, wings and sponsor liveries drew a line across history, and racing never felt the same afterwards. 1967 was the last year a green car won a Grand Prix.

[Tim Murray]

Not quite - Ickx’s Brabham in 1969 was predominantly green.

[john winfield]

..and someone called J. Clark won at Kyalami in 1968. Before the Gold Leaf livery was used......

 

 

Still OT.......2013...Australia...was Kimi Raikkonen's Lotus Renault primarily green? I have to ask because I'm not very good with non-primary colours. Or any colours really.

Edited by john winfield, 11 June 2018 - 15:39.

[Tim Murray]

I always assumed they were trying to give it the look of the old JPS black and gold, but it might be a very very dark green, similar to BRM.

[Michael Ferner]

Ugh! Someone ought to sound a warning when a fugly thing like that appears in a thread about the 1967 F 1 season!!!!

[blackmme]

Ugh! Someone ought to sound a warning when a fugly thing like that appears in a thread about the 1967 F 1 season!!!!

A 1967 thread has the possibility to include the Cooper T86 and therefore cannot claim to be in any way an ugly free zone!

Regards Mike

[PayasYouRace]

As H0R (to whom thanks for the thread are due) said in the opening post: "F1 in 1967...  what did it bring us? First and foremost: Neither wings nor sponsorship liveries. In many ways it was the last “classic” year of F1."
 
Like the rear engined revolution, wings and sponsor liveries drew a line across history, and racing never felt the same afterwards. 1967 was the last year a green car won a Grand Prix.

Michele Alboreto won in a green Tyrrell in Detroit 1983. The 1986, 1989, 1990 and 1994 Benettons all had green aplenty too.

I guess it’s true that green hasn’t been that popular since 1967 though.

[Bob Riebe]

Agreed, 1967 offered a trove of riches for the racing enthusiast; its hard to believe looking back half a century how varied the competition was. In addition to series mentioned, in N America we had Trans-Am hitting its stride, a fabulous entry at Indy, USRRC , NASCAR and others. The inaugural F1 Canadian Grand Prix took place and caught on, being presented every year since, save a couple of misses over money squabbles.

 

All this racing and none of it was easily available on TV at least where I lived. Results had to be gleaned from magazines as there was little coverage in newspapers at the time. This served only to heighten the interest for real enthusiasts. Races were all presented at racing circuits and people were expected to drive to see them. The concept of temporary street circuits, bringing the races to the spectators was somewhere over the horizon. Street circuits consisted of Monaco and maybe Trois-Rivieres just beginning.and billing itself as the Monaco of N America.

 

Most people list events of their youth as the best or greatest and it doesn't resonate with others, still 1967 was definitely a major time for racing fans. And the look of the cars, as others have pointed out the  F1 Eagle is very hard to top.

In 1967 Andretti, Foyt and B. Unser were still driving sprint cars and Parnelli Jones was still driving USAC stock cars.

 

Different world then.

[Dave Ware]

1967 was a magic year for Richard Petty.  27 wins from 48 starts, including 10 in a row. 

 

A. J. Foyt won his third Indy then went to France to co-drive with Dan Gurney.  Gurney co-drove with Foyt in France then went to Belgium.  What an amazing 3 weeks.

 

McLaren dominated the Can-Am, five wins in six races.  The beginning of the Bruce and Denny show. 

 

It was a magic year for a lot of people. 

[Michael Ferner]

A 1967 thread has the possibility to include the Cooper T86 and therefore cannot claim to be in any way an ugly free zone!

Regards Mike

Gimme the Cooper a hundred times over any 21st century car!

[2F-001]

A certain white, composite-structured coupé from Texas made an appearance too.

[MCS]

As H0R (to whom thanks for the thread are due) said in the opening post: "F1 in 1967...  what did it bring us? First and foremost: Neither wings nor sponsorship liveries. In many ways it was the last “classic” year of F1."

 

Like the rear engined revolution, wings and sponsor liveries drew a line across history, and racing never felt the same afterwards. 1967 was the last year a green car won a Grand Prix.

 

Wings in Grand Prix racing were introduced in1968 of course, as you say, Sterzo.  Here is a link to a recent Motor Sport piece on the topic for what it is worth.  I have posted this in (almost) desperation because I am sure I have seen something 1967-related there recently, but can't find it!

 

I am beginning to understand why certain members pose questions the way they do.

[D28]

Wings in Grand Prix racing were introduced in1968 of course, as you say, Sterzo.  Here is a link to a recent Motor Sport piece on the topic for what it is worth.  I have posted this in (almost) desperation because I am sure I have seen something 1967-related there recently, but can't find it!

 

I am beginning to understand why certain members pose questions the way they do.

https://www.motorspo...i-vs-foyt-petty

I didn't see a link with your post, but this story covers 1967 from a Foyt- Andretti perspective.

 

Rob points out above about Jones running USAC stockers that year. He won the overall Kawartha 250 at Mosport, the race Kirby mentions Andretti winning 1 heat.  Racers were versatile then, to put it mildly,  and really earned their pay.

Edited by D28, 12 June 2018 - 16:45.

[Sterzo]

Michele Alboreto won in a green Tyrrell in Detroit 1983. The 1986, 1989, 1990 and 1994 Benettons all had green aplenty too.

I guess it’s true that green hasn’t been that popular since 1967 though.

I stand suitably shamed - and, in fact, rather green.

[blackmme]

Gimme the Cooper a hundred times over any 21st century car!

Said no racing driver ever
The Renault R25 and R26 are aesthetically very pleasing machines as was the Red Bull RB6 and certainly the Mclaren MP4/28 each I would argue at least 2% as good looking as a Cooper T86. Perhaps you have an aversion to things that make fast cars faster?

Regards Mike

[Stephen W]

Michele Alboreto won in a green Tyrrell in Detroit 1983. The 1986, 1989, 1990 and 1994 Benettons all had green aplenty too.

I guess it’s true that green hasn’t been that popular since 1967 though.

 

I seem to recall Alfa Romeo running with a background green colour in 1984 & 1985 with mainly Benetton sponsorship.

[PayasYouRace]

I seem to recall Alfa Romeo running with a background green colour in 1984 & 1985 with mainly Benetton sponsorship.

They certainly did. They never won a Grand Prix though.

[MarkBisset]

Article on F1's 1967 winning Repco Brabham '740 Series' V8...

https://primotipo.co...hip-winning-v8/