70 replies to this topic

[sopa]

To carry on on the wavelength of nostalgia.

 

2000 saw the battle of two giants. Ferrari and McLaren won all races. The rest only occasionally reached podium. This means most memories I'd imagine are related to the battle at the front. Even though Barrichello and especially Coulthard were within striking distance in mid-season, in the end it was between Schumacher and Hakkinen. Suzuka. First Drivers World Championship for Ferrari in 21 years.

 

But there were some major turnarounds in fortunes during the season. McLaren didn't score a point in the first two races. Then Schumacher lost his comfortable championship lead due to three consecutive retirements in mid-season. Hakkinen seized the initiative and the legendary victory at Spa marked the high-point of his campaign. But in the end Schumacher won the last 4 races in a row.

 

While the rest of the teams remained a mere footnote that season, there were several significant developments, which would have long-term implications in F1. BMW and Honda returned with full works engines, and both had solid seasons. Benetton sold their team to Renault. Ford had bought Stewart and re-named it Jaguar. On the flipside Peugeot pulled out after a catastrophic season, which marked the beginning of the end for the whole Prost team.

 

Thoughts?

[Loosenut]

Was 2000 when Rubens won in Hockenheim? I had to pretend something was stuck in my eye..
Didn't just win it, he went out there and took it! Or something like that, as Martin Brundle said.
Damn I'm getting old!

[sopa]

Was 2000 when Rubens won in Hockenheim? I had to pretend something was stuck in my eye..
Didn't just win it, he went out there and took it! Or something like that, as Martin Brundle said.
Damn I'm getting old!

 

Yep, from 18th on the grid no less.

 

It was perhaps the craziest race of the year.

[Loosenut]

And for the 1st time since he turfed Damon Hill off in Adelaide, I was rooting for Schumi, the b*#*#*d he was so good, you gotta have him win it for a change!
Meanwhile watching Montoya blowing up Toyota engines accross the pond and swearing a lot!

[Vettelari]

It's hard to believe that Peugeot used to be such a motorsports mainstay these days. They were in F1, pulled out, and then undertook a MASSIVE WEC campaign. I wish they would come back to the single seater fold via F1 or WEC someday soon.

[Loosenut]

Their F1 engine was a fantastic piece of kit. Hard to believe that such a powerful works motor would only find it's way into a midfield car. These days they'd be fighting over it!

[Borko]

It was a great season. Schumacher really showed how mentally strong he is. He had the championship won after Canadian GP. But then, engine failure, collisions and McLaren becoming reliable resulted in Hakkinen leading the championship after Hungary. On top of that, then came the famous overtaking in Spa. He was so close in 1997, he was so close 1998, he broke his leg in 1999 and Irvine came so close to winning the WDC, he had such a huge lead after Canada.. And then trailed by 6 points after Spa. And then he won all the remaining races. Truly remarkable.

 

Hakkinen's season was pretty good. At the end, it was not him, it was Mercedes' engine that decided the championships. I still think McLaren had better car, but Ferrari was the better team in 2000. Unfortunately, 1998 and 1999 wasn't enough for Ron to realize that Coulthard wasn't capable of winning the championship.

[SpeedRacer`]

The only down side was the huge gap to the midfield from the top 2 teams. Although a shame Button developed an engine issue during the British GP as he looked quite strong (even though he was running a lighter fuel load at the start!)

 

As a Coulthard fan, he had a pretty strong first half of the season, just 1 point behind IIRC at the half way stage, but sadly faded after that. Brilliant race at Magny Cours, some overtaking in a normal dry race!

[A.Fant]

The year of the Trulli Train!

 

Monaco GP: "By the eleventh lap, Michael Schumacher had built up his lead to Trulli over eleven seconds"

 

Belgian GP: "By the beginning of the fifth lap Häkkinen increased his lead over Trulli to ten seconds, ahead of Michael Schumacher, Button and Coulthard"

[Stephane]

The return of Honda. 

[statman]

The return of Honda. 

 

I'm still wondering what could have been with the 1999 team project, with Verstappen and Harvey designing. Apparently they were impressive in the tests, then Harvey died and the project folded.

[Stephane]

We'll never know, but 4th and 6th with BAR in Australia was really promising.

[BuddyHolly]

I mostly enjoyed 2000 and I'll admit I had to wipe a tear or two away at Suzuka. 

[Dan333SP]

Their F1 engine was a fantastic piece of kit. Hard to believe that such a powerful works motor would only find it's way into a midfield car. These days they'd be fighting over it!

 

Not sure if sarcasm... 

 

My memory of the Peugeot of that era was that it was both unreliable AND underpowered, kinda like the Honda of '15-'17. I think in Peugeot definitely threw some money at it, but it was at best a match for the old Renault works engines rebadged as Asiatech/Supertec/whatever and used by Arrows. 

 

I'm still wondering what could have been with the 1999 team project, with Verstappen and Harvey designing. Apparently they were impressive in the tests, then Harvey died and the project folded.

 

I always wondered whether they actually got a 3L V12 running on the dyno at 20,000 rpm as had been rumored back in that era. IIRC, the FIA put a rule in place defining the engines as 10 cylinders to avoid an arms race, but I bet it would have sounded quite nice. 

 

As it was, we got this gem from the 2000 season-

 

[Claudius]

That was such a difficult season to watch for a MS fan.
But for me Monza was the turning point. I had to go out the last laps, couldn’t cope with the pressure.
And then seeing Michael cry at the PC made me pretend I had something stuck in my eye too...

[PayasYouRace]

If people complain about a 2 tier F1 today then that year was just like that. Ferrari and McLareb miles ahead of an almighty scrap for 3rd.

It was an interesting midfield. Williams were good and Button made a great debut. BAR sorted their reliability issues so Villeneuve was in the hunt. Jordan were still strong and Benetton could turn in a great result too. Shame Jaguar disappointed. Even Arrows were competitive occasionally.

[AlexPrime]

It was an epic struggle, but with the start of total domination between first two and in later seasons 1 team, for me it is the start of the decline in F1 and I am not fond of it. But MS deserved that one... although Mika would have deserved it, too. 

[sopa]

In terms of actual racing I don't think it was actually a great season. And it didn't help "other" teams were miles behind. So in a way it not too dissimilar to what we have now in F1.

 

However, somehow 2000 felt very tense. I don't know, maybe because I was younger back then. But it really did feel like there was a lot at stake. This impression was boosted by Schumacher and Hakkinen going directly head-to-head in plenty of races, in quite closely performing cars. You don't often get such straight title conclusions like at Suzuka. Both drivers at their best, pushing like crazy through both qualifying and race. These alone made it memorable. At Suzuka I think I forgot the rest of the field even existed.

 

It was an interesting midfield. Williams were good and Button made a great debut. BAR sorted their reliability issues so Villeneuve was in the hunt. Jordan were still strong and Benetton could turn in a great result too. Shame Jaguar disappointed. Even Arrows were competitive occasionally.

 

Yeah, midfield was very close. Order kept changing almost each race and time-gaps were small.

 

Jordan-Mugen perhaps showed highest peak performance. Thrice on the front row on the grid. But unreliability problems crept in and cost them points, and Monaco was a massive missed opportunity. A major disappointment after such a promising 1999.

 

Williams-BMW and BAR-Honda had solid speed. Ralf ja Jacques seemed to be competing for minor points fairly often. I remember JV made quite a few rocket starts, most notably perhaps in Canada.

 

Benetton had some "special" circuits/conditions, where it shined. Fisichella achieved several podiums, one in Canada with a great strategy call in the wet. But Benetton was also prone to being nowhere, especially at the back end of the season.

 

Arrows showed impressive speed, especially on fast circuits. Unreliability cost them more points. High point was de la Rosa running third in Austria.

As for Jaguar, IIRC Irvine qualified into top 10 fairly often. But in races went usually backwards or something happened.

Sauber. Solid, but unspectacular. Salo netted some points, when opportunity presented itself.

Prost. Not only lacked speed, but horrid unreliability on the levels of BAR 1999. Alesi lost his two opportunities to score points (Monaco and Belgium) also due to car failures.

Minardi. Firmly at the back.

[PayasYouRace]

Ah yes. The year of the disgusting Telefonica livery on the Minardis. DC lapped them so often he reckoned there were about 6 of them on track.

[Larunss]

2000...one of my first full seasons. And a really heartbreaking one aswell.
Last season of my favorite driver Pedro Diniz. And my other favorite Wurz struggling aswell.
And my 3rd favorite driver Hakkinen retiring from Indianapolis...sad way to let the title battle end.

Atleast Jos had a few decent races with Arrows to warm my little heart. But what was I thinking back then?

Some epic moments like DC middle fingering MS in France, Rubens win and the famous Spa overtake have stuck deeply in my memory. So compared to '01 or '02 the '00 season has some nice memories for me.

Maybe it is just me, but races were a lot more unpredictable even though 2 teams dominated. You never knew if a car would finish the race and more driver errors.

Amongst my top 5 seasons for the drama in title battle aswell.

[Jon83]

2000...one of my first full seasons. And a really heartbreaking one aswell.
Last season of my favorite driver Pedro Diniz. And my other favorite Wurz struggling aswell.
And my 3rd favorite driver Hakkinen retiring from Indianapolis...sad way to let the title battle end.

Atleast Jos had a few decent races with Arrows to warm my little heart. But what was I thinking back then?

Some epic moments like DC middle fingering MS in France, Rubens win and the famous Spa overtake have stuck deeply in my memory. So compared to '01 or '02 the '00 season has some nice memories for me.

Maybe it is just me, but races were a lot more unpredictable even though 2 teams dominated. You never knew if a car would finish the race and more driver errors.

Amongst my top 5 seasons for the drama in title battle aswell.

 

 

Even until the last lap, you'd be expectiing your favourite driver's engine to go bang.

 

There's still plenty of it happening now, even if it doesn't feel like there is. I think the main thing is now you'll not be surprised if you get a race finishing without at least 5-6 retirements whereas back then it seemed a guarantee.

[Oho]

Was 2000 when Rubens won in Hockenheim? I had to pretend something was stuck in my eye..
Didn't just win it, he went out there and took it! Or something like that, as Martin Brundle said.
Damn I'm getting old!

 

No, While he drove well, Barrichello's win was rather fortuitous to say the least. It required two convenient safety cars in quick succession with first being brought to track after invasion of a disgruntled (ex?) Mercedes employee..

Edited by Oho, 18 June 2018 - 14:27.

[Oho]

 

 I still think McLaren had better car, but Ferrari was the better team in 2000. Unfortunately, 1998 and 1999 wasn't enough for Ron to realize that Coulthard wasn't capable of winning the championship.

 

Well Ferrari was the faster more reliable car, but had rear tire chewing problem around mid part of the season....Häkkinen, according to Brundle who at the time managed Coulthard,  did not feel entirely comfortable with the car especially in qualifying. McLaren actually reverted back to old rear suspension to give him better feeling which helped toward the end of the season. In any case for what its worth retirement bound  Häkkinen out-qualified Coulthard in 2001 with bigger margin than in 2000.

Edited by Oho, 18 June 2018 - 14:50.

[zold]

So where did Jaguar go so wrong with the R1? Was it that Stewart focused too much on '99? Was there a brain drain when Jag took over?

[midgrid]

Gary Anderson wrote a good column on this if you are an Autosport subscriber: https://www.autospor...d-to-fail-in-f1.

[Risil]

Ah yes. The year of the disgusting Telefonica livery on the Minardis. DC lapped them so often he reckoned there were about 6 of them on track.

 

Oriol Servia also ran a lime green thing in CART that year. Here's his team trying to burn it to the ground in Chicago:

 

[PayasYouRace]

Obviously Telefonica went on a spree of supporting Spanish drivers that year. A certain Fernando Alonso ran that livery in his F3000 campaign.

[LucaP]

I kind of liked that livery
And an element of yellow was in Minardi's history anyway.

I seem to remember the chassis was pretty good too. Shame about the engine. .

[PlatenGlass]

No, While he drove well, Barrichello's win was rather fortuitous to say the least. It required two convenient safety cars in quick succession with first being brought to track after invasion of a disgruntled (ex?) Mercedes employee..

Certainly. It rendered irrelevant the fact that he was 18th on the grid, even if it made a good story.

[Bleu]

But even without SCs Barrichello could have well been on the podium. He was not going to beat the McLarens but IIRC he was fighting with Trulli for the 3rd. Trulli then got stop/go for overtaking under SC (I think he said he was coming side-by-side with Rubens exiting the pits and Trulli being on the track - then Barrichello narrowly being ahead at the SC line but Trulli going ahead anyway)

[Oho]

But even without SCs Barrichello could have well been on the podium.

 

 

I thought he had an additional  stop to make whereas those around him were good for flag...

[Atreiu]

The year of heartbreak. Indy was cruel.

 

The cars looked good though.

[Bleu]

I thought he had an additional  stop to make whereas those around him were good for flag...

 

I just checked it on F1TV, Barrichello was 5th, just behind de la Rosa and few seconds behind Trulli. Everyone with stop to go. Barrichello was two-stopper and had been on 3rd already before his first stop.

 

On the other note, McLaren screwed up by not bringing both cars at the same time. They had a cushion which would have allowed DC to stay 2nd even if he had waited behind Mika. McLaren did similar mistake something like half a dozen times before and after that. Only after Montoya's fate in Montreal -05 they seemed to realize it's better to pit both cars in that situation.

[sopa]

Barrichello's winning drive was impressive though. The way he was slicing through the field and up to P3 before his first pitstop. He was on a two-stop strategy, but likely he would have got ahead of the bunch by the end again. And then in the end he was one of the few, who dared to stay out on dry tyres and beat McLarens this way. Obviously without safety cars he would have had no chance to catch McLarens, since they were miles ahead, but never mind.

[Oho]

 

On the other note, McLaren screwed up by not bringing both cars at the same time. 

 

 

Not really, McLaren was intending to stop both cars but Coulthard did not drive into pits. They had tires out for both drivers and mechanics purportedly looked really surprised to seeing Coulthard drive by. There was some confusion with conflicting planned strategy. Coulthard was supposed to pit on the lap  and drivers were told team is double stopping but Coulthard did not get the message.

[Veemax]

Everybody talks about Suzuka but really the title was decided at Indy when Häkkinen's engine expired when he was reeling Schumacher in.

[Myrvold]

And my other favorite Wurz struggling aswell.

Wurz was rather poor in 99 and 00.

[Borko]

James Allen said during the broadcast while reporting from the pitlane that Hakkinen was 15-20 kgs of fuel lighter than Schumacher. But still, second place would have definitely helped - the point difference prior to Suzuka would have been just 2 points. And McLaren was competitive in Malaysia - Hakkinen really screwed it by jumping the start.

[sopa]

Wurz was rather poor in 99 and 00.

 

Yep, what a decline after a promising 1998. 

[Anderis]

Yep, what a decline after a promising 1998. 

I think I've once read that Benetton was so heavy at that time that Wurz with his car was consistently over minimum weight. Fisichella didn't struggle as much as he was around 10kgs lighter.

[messy]

Ah yes. The year of the disgusting Telefonica livery on the Minardis. DC lapped them so often he reckoned there were about 6 of them on track.

 

I really liked that livery personally!!

 

Remember 2000 as a pure head to head between Schumacher and Hakkinen, although DC was right in there till mid season. Less overt drama than 1998 or 1999 probably, but a pure fight at the front. The year of Jenson Button making his debut too and the start of the Jordan decline. The year of the Jaguar disappointment as everyone expected rather more than they got after Stewart did so well the previous year. But somehow, I remember is as slightly less 'magic' than the previous years, probably because as a young teenager as I was then, I wanted the constant shocks and drama more than the purity of a head to head between the two best drivers in the two best cars. 

 

I think I was seriously disappointed by the 'midfield' teams at the time though. 1997-99 showed me that the fastest of the midfield teams got the odd genuine chance to win and in 2000 suddenly they were all a country mile off McLaren and Ferrari, even third placed Williams. 

Edited by messy, 19 June 2018 - 11:59.

[SenorSjon]

Oriol Servia also ran a lime green thing in CART that year. Here's his team trying to burn it to the ground in Chicago:

 

 

I think it looks great, especially with what you see these days. The livery doesn't bother me.

 

Ah '00. I believe one of the best seasons I've seen. It was a proper battle between the two title candidates with the season ebbing and flowing. Good looking and sounding cars as well. Cars looked distinct from each other and they ran each other close.

[NixxxoN]

That was a good season but with two too dominant teams, the gap from them to the rest was huge.

 

A quite forgotten fact is that Pedro de la Rosa drove his best ever race at Austria 2000 (Along with Hungary 2006), by pace he looked like he was going to fight for a podium with that poor/uncompetitive Arrows, until he had engine/gearbox issues.

Edited by NixxxoN, 19 June 2018 - 13:41.

[SpeedRacer`]

I think I've once read that Benetton was so heavy at that time that Wurz with his car was consistently over minimum weight. Fisichella didn't struggle as much as he was around 10kgs lighter.

 

Yeah there was a Motorsport podcast about 2 years ago with Wurz, he said he was losing about 0.3 seconds a lap to Fisi before they'd even left the garage.

[LiJu914]

Many things to mention about that season. I liked, how far MSC and HAK pushed each other occassionally during that season. Unlike Suzuka, i think the Nurburgring race is somewhat overlooked in that regard. Both fought and drove so well in that race, that they ended up lapping the whole field, including their own teammates. 

Edited by LiJu914, 19 June 2018 - 14:00.

[Oho]

James Allen said during the broadcast while reporting from the pitlane that Hakkinen was 15-20 kgs of fuel lighter than Schumacher. 

 

How would he know such a thing?  Its possible but there was no way he or any commentator would know with any certainty. It looked like a real race developing with McLaren probably behaving better on dry track like at Spa. 

 

Incidentally Schumacher almost threw the race, he span off the track and  quite nearly beached it...

Edited by Oho, 20 June 2018 - 13:52.

[LiJu914]

He would he know such a thing?  Its possible but there was no way he or any commentator would know with any certainty. It looked like a real race developing with McLaren probably behaving better on dry track like at Spa. 

 

Incidentally Schumacher almost threw the race, he span off the track and  quite nearly beached it...

 

I don´t remember Mika being unable to pass a Minardi at Spa though....

Edited by LiJu914, 19 June 2018 - 14:41.

[Oho]

I don´t remember Mika being unable to pass a Minardi at Spa though....

 

Yeah he would have looked royally stupid if he had risked a pass on track that was wet offline and binned it when he pretty much knew it was for few laps only....

[LiJu914]

Yeah he would have looked royally stupid if he had risked a pass on track that was wet offline and binned it when he pretty much knew it was for few laps only....

 

 

My remark wasn´t meant to blame him. His car just wasn´t set up for higher top speed (in relation to other cars) this time around - unlike Spa. He was right at Mazzacane´s gear box several times in the infield of the track, but he was never close to him on the main straight. 

 

Long story short: Even if i´d disregard variables like fuel und just assume, that HAK/McL was just outright faster in dry conditions than MSC/Ferrari, it´s still highly questionable that he would´ve been able to get by.

Edited by LiJu914, 20 June 2018 - 06:49.

[Borko]

He would he know such a thing?  Its possible but there was no way he or any commentator would know with any certainty. It looked like a real race developing with McLaren probably behaving better on dry track like at Spa. 
 
Incidentally Schumacher almost threw the race, he span off the track and  quite nearly beached it...

He talked to Ferrari mechanics, that was their estimation. He used to be a pitlane reporter back then, not a commentator.