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Red Bull Honda officially announced for 2019


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#51 danmills

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 10:52

It is against the rules to switch engine manufacturers mid season, out of interest?

 

That would be a glorious illustration of a loophole if ever there was one, to conduct an extensive test amassing every penalty under the sun for the last half of the year changing all items every session lol.


Edited by danmills, 19 June 2018 - 10:54.


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#52 FLB

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 10:58

I keep thinking about the timing for announcing this.

 

Just before the French Grand Prix...



#53 TheRacingElf

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 10:59

Rumour goes that RBR have developed 2 chassis' for 2018; the current one and one in which the Honda engine fits.
Don't be surprised when RBR will be running as RBR Honda in the 2nd half of the season when it's no longer possible for any of their drivers to become WDC

 

:rotfl:  :lol:  :rotfl:  :lol:  :rotfl:  :lol:



#54 Pumpkinz

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 10:59

I keep thinking about the timing for announcing this.

 

Just before the French Grand Prix...

 Renault said a few Days earlier they want an answer in a few Days, not at the Austrian GP (as RB planned to). So it seems ok.


Edited by Pumpkinz, 19 June 2018 - 11:00.


#55 StanBarrett2

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:00

I'd like to see both Dan and Max to drive for STR asap.

Get them to both drive the shite out of those Honda engines, and getting proper miles on those engines.

Take all penalties as they come, just drive the damn things as hard as possible.



#56 iSpeedFreak

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:02

Rumour goes that RBR have developed 2 chassis' for 2018; the current one and one in which the Honda engine fits.
Don't be surprised when RBR will be running as RBR Honda in the 2nd half of the season when it's no longer possible for any of their drivers to become WDC

 

 

 

 

I dont think that is possible by rules, but i am not sure. Will be happy to be corrected.

 

I see the Honda Deal as a testing ground for RBR. They have Aston Martin as their principle sponsors and it is long know that AM is very interested in the new engine regs of 2021 if they are favourable. Using Honda as a development curve, along with the technical input of the likes of Ilmor and others, AM/RBR can use this as an opportunity to get ahead of other Engine manufactures once the new regulations are agreed (most likely before the end of the season). If the regs are favourable and AM do decide they want to be an engine manufacture, this is a good opportunity, Just like Mercedes did before the 2014 regulations came into effect. They had massive inputs into the regs and started developing the power unit way early (due to their un-competitiveness in 2011-2013)  and the result was a PU way superior than anyone else. A feat unlikely to be achieved again, however at least AM can learn a lot from the Honda development in house and apply that to their own engine for 2021. 

 

This is very good for F1 in the long term. If Honda can get on par with Renault this year interms of power and reliabiliity, we can be sure of RBR putting it to good use in 2019, maybe even get wins!  :clap:


Edited by iSpeedFreak, 19 June 2018 - 11:03.


#57 sopa

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:06

Wonder, what will McLaren and Alonso think of this announcement. And what will Ricciardo think about his contract extension.

 

For McLaren it probably doesn't matter any more. Their chassis is rubbish anyway, so no engine could save them.

Maybe Alonso would offer to drive for Toro Rosso.  :p  Considering, he wouldn't get seat in RBR anyway... Oh well, I guess Alonso has enough pride left in himself he would never deal with Honda again after bashing them for years. Though if they improve, he could grudgingly watch it from distance, like he has done with Ferrari.



#58 BillBald

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:07

So, a unreliable Honda engine, coupled With Adrian Neweys aggressive and at times unreliable designs. Doesn't sound like a recipe for WDC/WCC in 2019.

 

This



#59 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:15

It is against the rules to switch engine manufacturers mid season, out of interest?


It's not. However, a Red Bull Honda will start with 0 Points, being counted as a new team in the constructor championship.
Also, these days the chassis and crash structures are homologated, so they'd need to be able to fit the Honda, without changing the chassis and structures.

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#60 NixxxoN

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:15

Is Newey still there? Because with the history of engine manufacturer bashing he has, that could be popcorn time



#61 Ivanhoe

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:19

It's not. However, a Red Bull Honda will start with 0 Points, being counted as a new team in the constructor championship.Also, these days the chassis and crash structures are homologated, so they'd need to be able to fit the Honda, without changing the chassis and structures.


I don’t think the homologation procedure allows changing from PU supplier during the season.


Edited by Ivanhoe, 19 June 2018 - 11:19.


#62 r4mses

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:26

Red Bull probably have the right atmosphere and drive to push Honda's buttons. Totally different to the McLaren mould.

 

This should be a success.

 

Ye, RBR are totally calm and relaxed when hold back due to their engine. Just ask Renault.  :stoned:



#63 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:30

I don’t think the homologation procedure allows changing from PU supplier during the season.


If two engines are similar in mounting points, design etc. so they can fit the same chassis, crash structures etc. I don't see why not?

I might be wrong though, but afaik, the things that are homologated does not include the engine.

Edited by Myrvold, 19 June 2018 - 11:30.


#64 Gareth

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:33

Red Bull are also going into this with their eyes wide open. They have full visibility of both the power numbers for the two engines, and also the packaging requirements, thanks to Torro Rosso.

The packaging is an interesting area as well I think that shouldn't be underestimated. McLaren claimed last season to have a chassis the equal of RedBull, this season they have a chassis a second or so behind. Red Bull may have identified performance improvement potential on the chassis side from running a Honda vs a Renault as well.

#65 Ivanhoe

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:38

If two engines are similar in mounting points, design etc. so they can fit the same chassis, crash structures etc. I don't see why not?I might be wrong though, but afaik, the things that are homologated does not include the engine.

APPENDIX 4
2017-2020 POWER UNIT HOMOLOGATION
1) Any manufacturer intending to homologate a power unit for use by a team in a Championship during the 2017-2020 period must submit to the FIA a power unit homologation dossier on or before 28 February of the relevant year.
2) The homologation dossier must include:
a) Details of all the parts described as “INC” in the “App. 4 Sporting regs.” column of Appendix 2 of the F1 Technical Regulations.
b) All documents required in Article a) of Appendix 9 of these regulations.
3) A power unit will be homologated for the relevant team once a complete homologation dossier has been submitted by the relevant manufacturer and has been approved by the FIA, such approval to take place within 14 days from the submission of the homologation dossier.
4) The homologation will be valid for a maximum of one season only, starting on the date of approval by the FIA and ending on the start of the first Event of the following Championship.
5) Each manufacturer shall submit an homologation dossier for each team it intends to supply. There may only be one homologation dossier per team.



#66 MrRat

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:41

 

If two engines are similar in mounting points, design etc. so they can fit the same chassis, crash structures etc. I don't see why not?I might be wrong though, but afaik, the things that are homologated does not include the engine.

APPENDIX 4
2017-2020 POWER UNIT HOMOLOGATION
1) Any manufacturer intending to homologate a power unit for use by a team in a Championship during the 2017-2020 period must submit to the FIA a power unit homologation dossier on or before 28 February of the relevant year.
2) The homologation dossier must include:
a) Details of all the parts described as “INC” in the “App. 4 Sporting regs.” column of Appendix 2 of the F1 Technical Regulations.
b) All documents required in Article a) of Appendix 9 of these regulations.
3) A power unit will be homologated for the relevant team once a complete homologation dossier has been submitted by the relevant manufacturer and has been approved by the FIA, such approval to take place within 14 days from the submission of the homologation dossier.
4) The homologation will be valid for a maximum of one season only, starting on the date of approval by the FIA and ending on the start of the first Event of the following Championship.
5) Each manufacturer shall submit an homologation dossier for each team it intends to supply. There may only be one homologation dossier per team.

 


Just one clarification, people confuse homologation for development freeze. Homologation simply means passing the car as being legal to race according to the rules of the series its racing in.



#67 blacky

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:44

I see the Honda Deal as a testing ground for RBR. They have Aston Martin as their principle sponsors and it is long know that AM is very interested in the new engine regs of 2021 if they are favourable. Using Honda as a development curve, along with the technical input of the likes of Ilmor and others, AM/RBR can use this as an opportunity to get ahead of other Engine manufactures once the new regulations are agreed (most likely before the end of the season). If the regs are favourable and AM do decide they want to be an engine manufacture, this is a good opportunity, Just like Mercedes did before the 2014 regulations came into effect. They had massive inputs into the regs and started developing the power unit way early (due to their un-competitiveness in 2011-2013)  and the result was a PU way superior than anyone else. A feat unlikely to be achieved again, however at least AM can learn a lot from the Honda development in house and apply that to their own engine for 2021. 

 

If Michael Schmidt from AMuS is right, and he seems to be confident, it's not Aston Martin who will enter F1 with Red Bull 2021, it's Porsche.



#68 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:45

Okay. Considering the fact that the McLaren ('The best chassis in F1 in 2017') are not exactly storming towards the front with the Renault-engines... it does not seem that Honda is all that bad. I have been looking for a horsepower table for the F1 2018 engines, but seeing the straight line speed of the Toro Rosso's that is also not a worry.

 

Bit baffled, I am, still. I was willing to bet a bottle of wine Red Bull was developing their own engine...



#69 SenorSjon

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:47

It is against the rules to switch engine manufacturers mid season, out of interest?

 

That would be a glorious illustration of a loophole if ever there was one, to conduct an extensive test amassing every penalty under the sun for the last half of the year changing all items every session lol.

 

Nope. It would count as new parts (with by then penalties) of course. But if a Toro Rosso 2017 scenario unfolds, I'll see it happen this year.

 

It's not. However, a Red Bull Honda will start with 0 Points, being counted as a new team in the constructor championship.
Also, these days the chassis and crash structures are homologated, so they'd need to be able to fit the Honda, without changing the chassis and structures.

 

Why? It isn't a new constructor, only a change in PU. The mounting points are already in the rules, so it should bolt be bolt on (and then figure out how to route the rest ;)). The engines seems to be quite smaller than the bulky Renault if it s McLaren to believed.



#70 Pete_f1

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:48

What will DanRic do now?

#71 Ivanhoe

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:49

Just one clarification, people confuse homologation for development freeze. Homologation simply means passing the car as being legal to race according to the rules of the series its racing in.


I’m not talking about freezing or developing, just saying that rules don’t seem to allow to open a new PU homologation file during the season.

#72 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:51

You have to give respect to Honda that they've landed this deal, but I don't think they'll succeed. This is their fourth year, we're a third of the way through the season, and they are incurring component use penalties again. They are not in a position to complete a season without accumulating penalties. They are not even close.

So I think Red Bull will go backwards next year. The real question mark is over the change in engine regulations. My view is that there is a serious possibility they'll end up back at square one, given how badly wrong Honda have performed under the current rules. And if they thought McLaren or Toro Rosso were demanding customers...


Renault are going to be racking up engine penalties as well. At least Honda has really good performance now, unlike the Renault PU.

#73 Ivanhoe

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:52

What will DanRic do now?


Don’t think he has many options.

#74 Spillage

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:52

A very interesting move, but I'm not sure it's a very wise one. Honda don't look any better than Renault right now, and given that they currently supply one team to Renault's three, I don't see how they can catch up for next season. Long-term, though, it may well be a gamble that pays off.



#75 Talisman

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:53

Renault are going to be racking up engine penalties as well. At least Honda has really good performance now, unlike the Renault PU.

 

I would put Honda and Renault at about the same level actually, I don't know why you think the Honda is clearly superior.  Packaging might be a different issue though.



#76 iSpeedFreak

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:54

If Michael Schmidt from AMuS is right, and he seems to be confident, it's not Aston Martin who will enter F1 with Red Bull 2021, it's Porsche.

 

That would be interesting development. Porsche entering F1 would be absolutely amazing. If Ross Brawn and Co and get it right F1 2021 looks like the end of a very long and boring tunnel and its worth looking forward to. 

 

Personally I see Aston Martin as an ideal candidate for Red Bull, given all their collaborations in the recent years. But of course I dont have the inside information. 

 

Also, the point i was making was Aston Martin can use it for their own advantage, whether they team up with RBR or not is a different matter. At the end of the day, if AM is planning to be an engine supplier from 2021, it could use the know-how to develop an F1 engine for its own engine to be a success and not languish at the back like Honda have done.



#77 Spillage

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:00

The effect this has on the driver market will be interesting. Will Ricciardo stick around, given Honda's reputation? Perhaps Horner's readiness to take this risk means they're pretty confident of him signing a new contract?



#78 Nova

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:01

Great news.
RBR have STR as 'real life laboratory'. They have acces to all data and can compare the Honda performance to the Renault performance and feed their simulator with the collected data.
From what I've heard, there's not much difference anymore between the 2 powerplants.

Rumour goes that RBR have developed 2 chassis' for 2018; the current one and one in which the Honda engine fits.
Don't be surprised when RBR will be running as RBR Honda in the 2nd half of the season when it's no longer possible for any of their drivers to become WDC

 

 

I will not be surprised, I'd be gobsmacked and flabbergasted. Not gona happen.



#79 danmills

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:02

Wonder, what will McLaren and Alonso think of this announcement. And what will Ricciardo think about his contract extension.

 

For McLaren it probably doesn't matter any more. Their chassis is rubbish anyway, so no engine could save them.

Maybe Alonso would offer to drive for Toro Rosso.  :p  Considering, he wouldn't get seat in RBR anyway... Oh well, I guess Alonso has enough pride left in himself he would never deal with Honda again after bashing them for years. Though if they improve, he could grudgingly watch it from distance, like he has done with Ferrari.

 

Well given his pursuit of the triple crown, he will need a Honda engine behind him so I doubt he will sever ties entirely.



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#80 Fastcake

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:03

Why? It isn't a new constructor, only a change in PU. The mounting points are already in the rules, so it should bolt be bolt on (and then figure out how to route the rest ;)). The engines seems to be quite smaller than the bulky Renault if it s McLaren to believed.


A constructor is a chassis-engine combination; change the engine and it’s a new constructor.

I seriously doubt Red Bull will change engines mid-season. But for reference, the relevant regulation:

8.3 A competitor may change the make of engine at any time during the Championship. All points scored with an engine of different make to that which was first entered in the Championship may count (and will be aggregated) for the assessment of a commercial benefit, however such points will not count towards (nor be aggregated for) the FIA Formula One Constructors Championship. A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA. For the purposes of this Article 8.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company.



#81 Talisman

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:06

A constructor is a chassis-engine combination; change the engine and it’s a new constructor.

I seriously doubt Red Bull will change engines mid-season. But for reference, the relevant regulation:
 

 

Aren't you both talking about different things?  You are talking about how it counts re: points and the WCC.  Señor is talking about whether the new tub would need to be homologated separately to the old Renault based one.  I suspect that despite common fixing points etc a Honda based tub would need to be sufficiently different that it would have to be tested and homologated separately to the old.

 

RBR wouldn't do this of course, switching PUs midseason in the absence of Renault vanishing overnight would be suicide.



#82 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:07

Why? It isn't a new constructor, only a change in PU. The mounting points are already in the rules, so it should bolt be bolt on (and then figure out how to route the rest ;)). The engines seems to be quite smaller than the bulky Renault if it s McLaren to believed.

 
Because the entered team is Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer (with Renault homologated engine). You cannot enter a new team with the same name. And changing the engine changes the constructor entered (damn, this was a bad explanation).
 

I’m not talking about freezing or developing, just saying that rules don’t seem to allow to open a new PU homologation file during the season.


The homologation file have a maximum length, no minimum. Unless there are something in the articles/appendixes mentioned in your quote. I can't see anything prohibiting an engine manufacturer change mid season there.

#83 SilverArrow31

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:07

The reliability of Mercedes drivetrains is really pretty stunning, isn't it?

 

That's how I think Mercedes and Hamilton will win this year if they do, not by being fastest, but by being there at the end. 

 

So next year we will have Mercedes x3, Ferrari x3, Renault x2 and Honda x2. Good numbers.


Edited by SilverArrow31, 19 June 2018 - 12:10.


#84 danmills

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:08

Ye, RBR are totally calm and relaxed when hold back due to their engine. Just ask Renault.  :stoned:

 

As in, rather than release some http://www.dictionar...browse/bullshit optimisitic ronspeak about the engine woes all season long, you will get a simple 'its crap, sort it out' remark and a constant ear bashing until results come in.

I doubt Red Bull are the sort of team to accept what it is. I feel they are a lot more relentless, at least vocally, than the McLaren of today.

 



#85 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:09

Aren't you both talking about different things?  You are talking about how it counts re: points and the WCC.  Señor is talking about whether the new tub would need to be homologated separately to the old Renault based one.  I suspect that despite common fixing points etc a Honda based tub would need to be sufficiently different that it would have to be tested and homologated separately to the old.


Which you can't do now (make a new chassis that gets a new homologation). I seem to remember Reading it, that the Ferrari-way of early 00's, running old chassis in the start, then change it is not allowed anymore. You are locked in with what you homologate. So e.g Williams cannot roll out their 2017 car and do a back to back comparison.

#86 FLB

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:14

Brabham did that too, whist Bernie was still running it. They brought out an old BT54 for Patrese at Brands Hatch in 1986 as the BT55 was under-delivering.

 

And under Bernie still, they changed engines for the last two races of 1979, ditching the overweight and overthirsty Alfa Romeo V12 for a good old-fashioned Cosworth DFV.


Edited by FLB, 19 June 2018 - 12:16.


#87 Nonesuch

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:21

What will DanRic do now?

 

From the stories - and take that with a huge pile of salt if you will - he sort of overestimated his own position and ... effectively ended up stuck at Red Bull.



#88 Rinehart

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:24

Okay. Considering the fact that the McLaren ('The best chassis in F1 in 2017') are not exactly storming towards the front with the Renault-engines... it does not seem that Honda is all that bad. 

 

NOW !!!

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that for 3 years it was a horrible engine. They've really caught up towards the later part of 2017 and over the winter so its probably not far off the Renault engine NOW. But I don't think the same could be said at the 2015 Australian Grand Prix. Ultimately the 3 years of pain killed the relationship and McLaren didn't have the patience or the faith that it would come right in the end - as, in hindsight, they probably should have done. I doubt McLaren would have terminated the Honda contract a year ago if they knew what the performance difference would be today. I also think for the rest of this rules era, Merc and Ferrari will remain stronger than Honda and Renault. 



#89 sopa

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:29

From the stories - and take that with a huge pile of salt if you will - he sort of overestimated his own position and ... effectively ended up stuck at Red Bull.

 

That's kinda of what happened to Red Bull in 2015 on the engine market.

 

So Ric and RBR are made for each other.  :p



#90 SenorSjon

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:32

A constructor is a chassis-engine combination; change the engine and it’s a new constructor.

I seriously doubt Red Bull will change engines mid-season. But for reference, the relevant regulation:
 

 

So it will add-up for FOM-money, but not for ranking. If you switch early enough, you could be top 4 with 2 entries of the same team.  :rotfl:

 

Which you can't do now (make a new chassis that gets a new homologation). I seem to remember Reading it, that the Ferrari-way of early 00's, running old chassis in the start, then change it is not allowed anymore. You are locked in with what you homologate. So e.g Williams cannot roll out their 2017 car and do a back to back comparison.

 

Top teams sometimes crash test new tubs and parts mid season, essentially renewing their homoligation. In early noughties, rules and crashtests didn't change every year like the current day. This year had the halo, last year the 2m cars, year before had chassis strengthened, just like almost every year. Racing a car multiple years is now impossible with the rule creep of this era.

 

NOW !!!

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that for 3 years it was a horrible engine. They've really caught up towards the later part of 2017 and over the winter so its probably not far off the Renault engine NOW. But I don't think the same could be said at the 2015 Australian Grand Prix. Ultimately the 3 years of pain killed the relationship and McLaren didn't have the patience or the faith that it would come right in the end - as, in hindsight, they probably should have done. I doubt McLaren would have terminated the Honda contract a year ago if they knew what the performance difference would be today. I also think for the rest of this rules era, Merc and Ferrari will remain stronger than Honda and Renault. 

 

McLaren shouldn't have blocked Red Bull in 2015 for a Honda 2016 deal. They could see if the engine was good, but they were too blinded to see they could also have been making mistakes. The car still isn't reliable.



#91 sopa

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:32

NOW !!!

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that for 3 years it was a horrible engine. They've really caught up towards the later part of 2017 and over the winter so its probably not far off the Renault engine NOW. But I don't think the same could be said at the 2015 Australian Grand Prix. Ultimately the 3 years of pain killed the relationship and McLaren didn't have the patience or the faith that it would come right in the end - as, in hindsight, they probably should have done. I doubt McLaren would have terminated the Honda contract a year ago if they knew what the performance difference would be today. I also think for the rest of this rules era, Merc and Ferrari will remain stronger than Honda and Renault. 

 

Yeah, but what would McLaren-Honda achieve in 2018? Look at the chassis performance. I doubt it's much better than STR. Also Honda PU may be close to Renault now, but unlikely better and potentially with more reliability issues. Also consider McLaren-Honda partnership in general had some communication issues, whatever they were, which complicated the relationship and probably even development.

 

So I see McLaren-Honda of 2018 could be around 2016 level, which would again be unsatisfactory and again Honda would be blamed for bad performance...



#92 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:33

Brabham did that too, whist Bernie was still running it. They brought out an old BT54 for Patrese at Brands Hatch in 1986 as the BT55 was under-delivering.
 
And under Bernie still, they changed engines for the last two races of 1979, ditching the overweight and overthirsty Alfa Romeo V12 for a good old-fashioned Cosworth DFV.


Ye, I think the last time anyone used two different engine manufacturers during a season was Footwork in 91. First the awful Porsche, then the slightly less awful, but much lighter Ford Cosworth.
Not that it helped that much in regards to points.

#93 MichaelPM

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:39

I keep thinking about the timing for announcing this.

 

Just before the French Grand Prix...

 

 

 Renault said a few Days earlier they want an answer in a few Days, not at the Austrian GP (as RB planned to). So it seems ok.

 

Yep, I think Renault said that on the 11th.

Fair play to RBR for at least keeping to Renault's deadline and not making it messy or Renault from showing any weakness by not enforcing the deadline.

 

Best of luck Redbull.



#94 Myrvold

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:40

Top teams sometimes crash test new tubs and parts mid season, essentially renewing their homoligation.


I am fairly sure that they are not allowed to homologate more than one chassis per season.
More than happy to be shown that I am wrong though :)

#95 Clatter

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:45

It is against the rules to switch engine manufacturers mid season, out of interest?

That would be a glorious illustration of a loophole if ever there was one, to conduct an extensive test amassing every penalty under the sun for the last half of the year changing all items every session lol.

No its not against the rules, but for practical reasons it won't happen. No reason why they couldn't do it with TR, and would have been happy to see mclaren take that approach last year. It does of course require Honda to bring updates to actually implement.

#96 SenorSjon

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:53

Yep, I think Renault said that on the 11th.

Fair play to RBR for at least keeping to Renault's deadline and not making it messy or Renault from showing any weakness by not enforcing the deadline.

 

Best of luck Redbull.

 

It was a Renault leak (French newspaper) to prevent a glorious announcement at the RB home GP. Instead it came out monday evening at 23.30. Not a very glorious timing. It falls a bit flat though, now Renault can explain at their home GP how they exactly are going to win a race anytime soon. They need to rely on Sainz, since Hulkenberg always crashes when near a podium.

 

I am fairly sure that they are not allowed to homologate more than one chassis per season.
More than happy to be shown that I am wrong though :)

 

Didn't Ferrari changed the tub this or last year for the side crash structure somewhere in the season?


Edited by SenorSjon, 19 June 2018 - 12:54.


#97 DS27

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:59

So, Honda finally do get their engine into the best chassis on the grid...



#98 sopa

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 13:03

So, Honda finally do get their engine into the best chassis on the grid...

 

This means Honda's performance will be unter scrutiny too (again). If Red Bull doesn't win, we know, who to blame. 

 

 ;)  :p



#99 Dalton007

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 13:05

So, Honda finally do get their engine into the best chassis on the grid...

 

I'm very excited to see how the RB cars perform next year.

 

McLaren's chassis wasn't as good as people thought... or was it good with Honda and is poor with the Renault?  :drunk:



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#100 TweetyV6

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 13:10

 

I dont think that is possible by rules, but i am not sure. Will be happy to be corrected.

 

I see the Honda Deal as a testing ground for RBR. They have Aston Martin as their principle sponsors and it is long know that AM is very interested in the new engine regs of 2021 if they are favourable. Using Honda as a development curve, along with the technical input of the likes of Ilmor and others, AM/RBR can use this as an opportunity to get ahead of other Engine manufactures once the new regulations are agreed (most likely before the end of the season). If the regs are favourable and AM do decide they want to be an engine manufacture, this is a good opportunity, Just like Mercedes did before the 2014 regulations came into effect. They had massive inputs into the regs and started developing the power unit way early (due to their un-competitiveness in 2011-2013)  and the result was a PU way superior than anyone else. A feat unlikely to be achieved again, however at least AM can learn a lot from the Honda development in house and apply that to their own engine for 2021. 

 

This is very good for F1 in the long term. If Honda can get on par with Renault this year interms of power and reliabiliity, we can be sure of RBR putting it to good use in 2019, maybe even get wins!  :clap:

 

 

It is allowed to change engine manufacturer during the season.


FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations 2018, published 7/6/2018:

8.3 A competitor may change the make of engine at any time during the Championship. All points scored with an engine of different make to that which was first entered in the Championship may count (and will be aggregated) for the assessment of a commercial benefit, however such points will not count towards (nor be aggregated for) the FIA Formula One Constructors Championship. A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA. For the purposes of this Article 8.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company.

 

 

https://www.fia.com/...on/category/110 or directly at: https://www.fia.com/file/69139/download/22911?token=U4C9DSOh


Edited by TweetyV6, 19 June 2018 - 13:13.