20 replies to this topic

[gruntguru]

VW electric race car shatters outright record.  https://electrek.co/...eak-hill-climb/

[MatsNorway]

Very impressive. Will try to get more info about the cars.

Results: http://livetiming.net/PPIHC/

 

I do hope Porsche considers showing up with their F1 killer for next year.

Edited by MatsNorway, 25 June 2018 - 06:25.

[Charlieman]

Hmm, 12 miles with enough altitude change to hurt a conventionally aspirated engine? And organisers putting together sets of rules to encourage unconventional cars? But never quite Formule Libre... Yes, an EV should do well at Pikes Peak.

[MatsNorway]

A similar cost prototype fuel car should beat that then.

 

It looks great tho.

https://car-images.b...kes_peak_84.jpg

 

And the time is very impressive if these numbers are correct: https://arstechnica....d-r-pikes-peak/

 

Initially i read 580hp and over a ton, which is not enough. But here it states 670hp and under 1100kg. So who knows.

 

Hopefully they release onboard and we get to compare.

Edited by MatsNorway, 25 June 2018 - 12:39.

[MatsNorway]

https://jalopnik.com...shin-1827103039

Edited by MatsNorway, 26 June 2018 - 10:23.

[E1pix]

I find the entire affair makes for the saddest day in Motorsports.

And I'm not only a Coloradan, I only own VWs.

[JacnGille]

I find the entire affair makes for the saddest day in Motorsports.

And I'm not only a Coloradan, I only own VWs.

Maybe you could talk um into puttin one of those motors in you bus??????? 

[Charlieman]

I find the entire affair makes for the saddest day in Motorsports.

I'm not sure what the Pikes Peak event means in 2018. We have timing to thousandths of a second -- does the physics of the timing apparatus justify that proclaimed accuracy? Is the event a promotional opportunity for whichever manufacturers want to show off their technical prowess? What is the scope for an independent team in different classes?

[MatsNorway]

Agreed. It is stupid to have thousands or even tens of a second on a hillclimb that goes over minutes. They never spesify the accuracy either. +-0.005sec? Less than that? does it then account for the difference in height and the radial speed difference from the top to the bottom like satelites do?

Edited by MatsNorway, 30 June 2018 - 13:48.

[kikiturbo2]

I'm not sure what the Pikes Peak event means in 2018. We have timing to thousandths of a second -- does the physics of the timing apparatus justify that proclaimed accuracy? Is the event a promotional opportunity for whichever manufacturers want to show off their technical prowess? What is the scope for an independent team in different classes?

 

IIRC timing aacuracy is usually connected to the level of competition... hell, we have rallies with 30 km stages where first 3 are within a second... nothing bad about using 1/1000 of a second for measurement if it is available and accurate enough.

 

Sure it is a promotional opportunity.. it is the highest and most well known hillclimb in the world..  and this is by far not the first time big companies tried their luck here.. remember Audi, Peugeot ...?

[Wuzak]

Supercars in Australia show to 0.0001s.

 

Not sure that ten-thoousandth of a second is really necessary. 

[Lee Nicolle]

As much as I can them they probably need 4 decimals timing as the whole field is usually covered by 2 sec max.

Though most circuits these days are timed the same with the transponder mounted in a general specified part of the car. In a tintop in the passenger front footwell. 

I suspect Pikes Peak using similar means.

 

As for an electric VW? Spend enough money you can win most things. Maybe they should have spent some money making legal diesel engines!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 02 July 2018 - 09:07.

[MatsNorway]

My point was more that if you are that close.. you share the first place. Lets be real.. both of you went up at the same time.

[kikiturbo2]

My point was more that if you are that close.. you share the first place. Lets be real.. both of you went up at the same time.

 

Racing is war.. it is not a kindergarten game... 

[MatsNorway]

Racing is war.. it is not a kindergarten game... 

And that is a straw man.. our would you like to account for the gravity of the moon being different from last year and thus messing with the timing?  Do you have any idea how complex the math gets when you try to get super accurate on time?  0.0001sec is so little time its stupid.

 

speed of sound, 343m/s divided by 10 000 gives you that the sound from the engine has only gone 0.0343m or 34.3mm by the time 0.0001sec has passed.

 

 

Kiki what is the difference in distance for two identical cars going over the line at 100km`t where 0.0001 sec separates them?

 

 

You have to draw the line somewhere. That is what i thought we where discussing..

Edited by MatsNorway, 03 July 2018 - 14:32.

[kikiturbo2]

My point is that timing down to 1/1000th of a second (PP was timed down to 1/1000) is commercially available and nothing special to implement. We are not shooting a rocket to the moon, but using an off the shelf timing system here, so that is what is used. It is similar to people shooting videos in their phones in 4K... You dont really need it because most likely you will watch it in HD, but it is there...

 

At 200 km/h, which is a reasonable speed that a PP car will cross a finish line, a 1/1000th difference is 55 mm.... which is something that you will easily distinguish on a photo finish machine. And I bet you that any racer worth anything will insist on those 5.5 cm because those guys like to win..

[MatsNorway]

Allright. if 1/1000th is cheap and easy to implement. So it is.

Edited by MatsNorway, 05 July 2018 - 12:26.

[Wuzak]

At 200 km/h, which is a reasonable speed that a PP car will cross a finish line, a 1/1000th difference is 55 mm.... which is something that you will easily distinguish on a photo finish machine. And I bet you that any racer worth anything will insist on those 5.5 cm because those guys like to win..

 

It is actually 5.5mm.

 

200km/h = 55.56m/s

 

55.56m/s * 0.0001s = 0.005556m = 5.556mm.

 

Edit:

 

You said 1/1000 = 0.001s. Which would be 5.56cm. 

 

Mats was talking about 0.0001s = 1/10,000, as used in Supercars.

 

As far as I am aware, the equipment F1 uses can measure to 0.0001s, but they choose to use only to 0.001s.

Edited by Wuzak, 04 July 2018 - 01:21.

[mariner]

Timing is not all IT precision even in track racing.

 

I once took some Formula Student team members up into the Brands Hatch timing centre in the Tower. The Chief Timekeeper kindly explained the transponder systems and the std. PC linked to the official MSA time box. 

 

Being keen students they asked the obvious " if my transponder s mounted further forward on the car will that let me beat a car with the recommended mid car location in  dead heat?"

 

Answer " NO" !  Because they are onto  that one and visually  record each car over the timing line and would adjust for any erroneous transponder results. The main reason they check visually isn't the location but to avoid a wrong published result if transponder should fail. 

Edited by mariner, 04 July 2018 - 06:34.

[Charlieman]

My point is that timing down to 1/1000th of a second (PP was timed down to 1/1000) is commercially available and nothing special to implement. We are not shooting a rocket to the moon, but using an off the shelf timing system here, so that is what is used. 

Which brings us back to my initial query, which is about the physics of timing. When competing with cars fitted with transponders on a circuit, a transponder should give consistent results. They might not be 100% accurate, but they will be consistent on the day. Are commercially available transponders designed or calibrated for hill climbs?

[kikiturbo2]

I am not sure what you are reffering to... However, the hill climbs and rallies I attend always have an optical sensor on the start and finish...