39 replies to this topic

[Frans]

Williams diffuser banned?
The FIA, Formula One’s Governing Body, has reportedly banned a radical diffuser used by the Williams team.

It emerged early this week in British Press that teams were objecting to an innovative diffuser design fitted to the FW23-BMW contenders at the San Marino and Spanish Grands Prix. The diffuser is the carbon fibre device attached to the undertray that draws air from underneath and produces a significant amount of the car’s overall downforce.

The diffuser was reduced markedly in size in 1994 when the FIA made its major technical regulations change following the deaths of Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger, but teams have been able to claw back the advantage by cleverly interpreting the rules in their own unique way.

However, it is this practice that has reportedly led to the forced removal of the device by the FIA this week. Whilst the Grove engineers were able to create a solution fully within the regulations, rival teams believed its design was ‘against the spirit of the regulations’ and lodged a complaint to the Governing Body.

Williams engineers, whilst disappointed that their creation had to be removed, complied with the FIA’s requests.

they banned Ralfie's diffuser!!!


Well, it's in the family...;)

[Smooth]

Wow.... so Ralf is not only a fine driver, but he designs and builds F1 cars as well??

[Frans]

hey, come on.... so far it's the only connection I found of the words "Schumacher" and "banned device" in the traction control-legal era....

I'm WORKING ON IT!

[Brackets]

What really surprises me is that so far nobody - unless I missed it - has yet made the link with all those weird crashes involving the Williams at the beginning of the season, and now their diffusor being banned. 1+1 and all that...

[BRG]

Jimbo -that might be because there is no connection..

[Brackets]

I'm not saying that there is, just that it is weird that so far nobody has speculated about it. It is the least I'd expect on a forum where people conclude that MH's Mercedes blew just because they saw blue smoke.

[Peter]

I heard that BAR's diffuser was banned too!

Now which Schumacher drives for them?

[SchuMic]

Jimbo,

As Frans said it above, "HE'S WORKING ON IT!"

Frans,

You don't really like the name "Schumacher", do you?


SCHUMACHER
SCHUMACHER
SCHUMACHER
SCHUMACHER
SCHUMACHER
SCHUMACHER
...

;)

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Jimbo
What really surprises me is that so far nobody - unless I missed it - has yet made the link with all those weird crashes involving the Williams at the beginning of the season, and now their diffusor being banned. 1+1 and all that...

Actually several have speculated that the Williams cars stop a bit more suddenly, as they are using a new composite brake pad made by Carbone Industrie, where the rest of the grid all use a similar compound pad made by Brembo, or one of its derivatives. The pads were developed for aircraft, and require greater heat to work optimally, and it is rumoured that the drivers have a scrub the brake a little before a corner to get a little heat into them, and when they apply more force, the brakes stop hard. (Witness all the lock ups from both drivers at any race....). So, in effect, the driver behind sees them brake at the same point, or a little earlier, than normal,when actually they are not yet fully on the brakes. The Williams then brake hard and late.

[SchuMic]

BTW,

Did anyone read any FIA official statement? As far I know, these are just rumors...

Didn't Williams say they didn't receive any info from the FIA?

[Brackets]

Smooth,

I know about the brake theories. Been there, done that.

I just find it weird that ever since the Williams diffusor has been brought into question, nobody has yet linked it with the accidents. Remember all the inuendo about cars losing downforce behind a Williams? Now there's reason to believe this might be true, and they all go silent. Ah need mah weekly conspiracy theory, you see .

[Peter]

CORRECTION TO THE THREAD TITLE: "A Schumacher might at some time drive an illiegal car ??"

Not that accuracy has ever been a strong point for some

There is no doubt about the previous legality of the Williams (and BAR?) cars. What they had done is found a loophole in the regulations which has now been plugged by the FIA.

If the cars were to run in the next race with the same diffuser, then they would be illegal.

Nice try [thread author] but you can't make this one stick!


"However, it is this practice that has reportedly led to the forced removal of the device by the FIA this week" - now that would be a sight worth seeing! - FIA personnel ripping the diffusers from the cars!

[Jerome]

Jimbo

I agree with you there. I noticed in Spain, when David Coulthard followed Ralf Schumacher closely, he had a really strange and big moment. It seemed the front end of his car suddenly lost downforce. He had to make two quick snaps to controll it again. And measuring from my vintage point (a bit hard from the telly) he was not even in his breaking zone.

Now, we'all know that the new regulations for the front end have changed the downforce characteristics of F1 cars a lot. In aerodynamics there is an effect, that is called I believe curtailling. It means that steered wind, at the end of a airplane's wing, loses its momentum and starts to make a weaving, corkscrewing movement. Therefore at most airplanes, little cilinder formed thingy is placed.

Just suppose the WIlliams F1 car has a very effective - because of the flexibility - diffuser. Would that not effect a car driving close behind it? Especially with the new regulations


Greets

Jerôme

[daveturbo]

Frans, your thread title is a question, so the answer is an almost unanimous;
NO !

I'm sure your next thread title will be the same though !

[Billy]

Originally posted by Jerome
I agree with you there. I noticed in Spain, when David Coulthard followed Ralf Schumacher closely, he had a really strange and big moment. It seemed the front end of his car suddenly lost downforce. He had to make two quick snaps to controll it again. And measuring from my vintage point (a bit hard from the telly) he was not even in his breaking zone.

which lap was that? Was it following Montoya in Spain or Ralf at Imola?

[Frans]

Reports in Autosport suggested that the Williams team might be forced to changed their rear diffuser for the upcoming Austrian GP following concerns lodged to the FIA, although the FIA's spokesperson, Francesco Longanesi told Reuters that he was not aware of any formal protest lodged concerning the Williams team's contender.

The team's technical director, Patrick Head in turn said: "We've been running within the regulations up to and including Barcelona and we will continue to do so from Austria onwards".

I believe Patrick, but.... I do not think Williams cheated on purpose...



was the joke of the 1st couple of reasons...

The Airflow behind the car has been questioned more than once now, and even the braking technique the teams "suposes" to use....

What on earth have they come up with? One win already, last race they didn't even ran with traction control software and were up there....

let's see what will happen for the rest of the season...

[Billy]

Frans, in the few laps before he spun off, Ralf was faster than Rubinho. Why was this?

[Frans]

that's the result of doing some corners faster and making a faster laptime ... if your in front of a driver, this usually is the case...

[Jerome]

Jimbo et all: It was in Spain, so it probably was Ralf...because Montoya was too far up for David to catch up.

Anyway, it was a Williams. I could not look at which one, because I thought Coulthard was going to crash. It was one of those moments in which you imagine the drive cursing his own head off...

[Todd]

Originally posted by Frans
that's the result of doing some corners faster and making a faster laptime ... if your in front of a driver, this usually is the case...

But Rubens was in front of Ralf. How can this be then?

[Frans]

Todd, the other way around is also possible, otherwise nobody would ever pass nobody... right?

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Todd


But Rubens was in front of Ralf. How can this be then?

Frans lives in an alternate universe where things happen in reverse.

Nobody has yet produced anything more than a rumour that Williams was spoken to by the FIA. It may well be that they were, and it was behind closed doors, esp. as evasive as Head has been when answering questions. I doubt we will see a big fall off in performance, as I doubt there was anything that ground-breaking going on. The BMW engine is still pure class, and as Williams continue to dial in downforce the car will continue to improve.

[SchuMic]

As I've pointed out earlier and as Smooth just repeated:

SHOW ME OFFICIAL STATEMENTS OR NEWS!!!

These're just reported rumors!

[Billy]

Originally posted by Frans
that's the result of doing some corners faster and making a faster laptime ...

but the BMW is reputed to be the strongest engine, so Ralf could go faster on the straights, slower in the corners, and still do a better laptime. Clearly the Williams had less downforce efficiency than the Ferrari at Catalunya, so how could Ralf go faster than Rubens in the corners?

[PeaQ]

Im amazed by how many people that still is trying to prove Frans wrong

[Smooth]

Originally posted by PeaQ
Im amazed by how many people that still is trying to proofe Frans wrong

It is much easier than trying to prove him right!!!

[Peter]

Smooth -

[RedFever]

Now imagine if Ferrari had used those diffusers.......can you imagine HH, DM and FRANS on another cheating conspiracy rampage??????

[HartleyHare]

You can imagine, but you would be wrong, RedF. As stated, the part was legal, just not within the spirit of the law. Perhaps you could confine yourself to your own opinions rather than trying to offer those of others. Inaccurately. Or do you still have nothing of interest to say on your own behalf?

[Smooth]

Originally posted by HartleyHare
You can imagine, but you would be wrong, RedF. As stated, the part was legal, just not within the spirit of the law.

As was the engine mapping Ferrari has been allegdly running. Didn't stop your accusations of cheating. So if Williams did exploit a loophole, is it cheating?

[RedFever]

considering your reaction, I wasn't far from truth........

So, when Williams is concerned "legal but against the spirit" it's OK. Funny how legal engine mappings used by Ferrari were evidence of FIA conspiracy for you.............and regarding my opinions, I have shared hundreds so far, contrary to you one-sided record you played some 500 times already.......

[Chris G.]

Frans, nice work!

My question (please answer) is: Is Ralf guilty and capable of the same things you believe about MS simply because of his relationship as a brother to the hated one?

btw, it's taken me a while, but I do appreciate your posts and the way you help to keep things lively.

God help me, I just used one of the custom smiley faces.

[Drifter]

C'mon RedF, Williams are innovative and Ferrari are cheats. You should know that by now ;)

[EdwRom]

Originally posted by Drifter
C'mon RedF, Williams are innovative and Ferrari are cheats. You should know that by now ;)

Dammit, Drifter, you are not supposed to sound logical on this BB,

[baddog]

Originally posted by Jerome

Jimbo et all: It was in Spain, so it probably was Ralf...because Montoya was too far up for David to catch up.

ermm you evidently are cofused.. ralf was significantly ahead of juan pablo for the entre race up until he spun off, so david would have had to pass montoya to get to ralf.

Shaun

[Frans]

Well, I cannot come clear yet with the investigations on the Ferrari's yet....

but it's awesome....

probably illegal as well, let cross our fingers!

I do not think Williams are cheaters, btw... some team must have had a "grunch" for it... hmmm, AND have the influece to let it happen... hmmmm,
:yawn:

[schumigal]

Someone please put JOS with one of the Schumacher brothers!!! That way it'll stop all these conspiracy theories!

[Smooth]

Originally posted by schumigal
Someone please put JOS with one of the Schumacher brothers!!! That way it'll stop all these conspiracy theories!

He was already there.... Benetton, 1994.

[Frans]

and if ONLY opened a book about it, ......

there was never a question about a 1st driver material and 2nd driver material.... and support.

nowadays that would be very diffrent..

[Smooth]

Originally posted by Frans
there was never a question about a 1st driver material and 2nd driver material.... and support.

You are right there.... Jos never had any questions or complaints about it, and remains friends with Michael to this day.