61 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

After Hartleys crash this morning, which absolutely was not his fault, I couldn’t help but think how much overtime his car has given to the Toro Rosso carbon fibre department this season so far. He’s had rotten luck, and his mechanics must be shattered!

Which drivers/seasons stand out to you as years when they were involved with a lot of car repairs through crashes/failures?

[Victor_RO]

Andrea de Cesaris, 1981. 

[Anderis]

I wonder how long it will take before anyone mentions Maldonado 2012.

[pdac]

Maldonado 2012

[dweller23]

Maldonado doesn't even come close to de Cesaris in 1981.

[Mila]

 

Maldonado doesn't even come close to de Cesaris in 1981.

 

Yup.

[absinthedude]

De Cesaris is in a league of his own.

 

He was said at the time to be untertaking a crash test programme for the (then new) carbon fibre chassis. Though the biggest crash was probably Watson at Monza. 

 

"De Crasheris" earned his nickname thoroughly. Maldonado is an amateur by comparison. But they do both share the qualities of being lightening fast while also being prone to mistakes.

[potmotr]

Addressing your OP:

 

Hartley has had three crashes this season: Spain (his fault), Canada (Stroll's fault), Silverstone (suspension's fault).

 

For context, his team mate Gasly has also crashed three times: Spain (taken out by Grosjean on first lap), Paul Ricard (took out Ocon on first lap), Austria (broke suspension on the kerbs). 

 

I'd say the crasher of 2018 would be Grosjean, surely? 

 

Of all time.. perhaps Maldonado?

[Dolph]

Just learned from Wikipedia that De Cesaris died in 2014 from a crash on the road on a motorcycle 

[potmotr]

Just learned from Wikipedia that De Cesaris died in 2014 from a crash on the road on a motorcycle 

 

Yeah, tragic.

 

By 1991-1992 he'd matured into a really reliable point scorer.

 

Only crashed out of races twice with Jordan in '91!

[Widefoot2]

The broken suspension for both drivers is troubling, 

 

Shades of Sebastien Buemi, perhaps TR should leave a little more margin on the front elements.

 

Edited by Widefoot2, 07 July 2018 - 12:22.

[Bloggsworth]

Masten Gregory & Willy Mairesse had more than their fair share...

[FLB]

Accodring to Doug Nye (DCN on TNF)'s Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car, vo. 2 1966-91, Philippe Alliot wrote off eleven Ligiers in 1990... 

[Nemo1965]

Accodring to Doug Nye (DCN on TNF)'s Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car, vo. 2 1966-91, Philippe Alliot wrote off eleven Ligiers in 1990... 

 

Yes, I wanted to mention Aillot. Ulrich Schwaab wrote about him in yearbook of 1985: 'The aspirations of the RAM-team came to nought (...) because of the lust of destruction by Aillot, who could find obstacles where they were not even to be found (...).'

 

The years there-after nothing that Aillot did made me belief he made some progress in that regard.

[HP]

Accodring to Doug Nye (DCN on TNF)'s Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car, vo. 2 1966-91, Philippe Alliot wrote off eleven Ligiers in 1990... 

De Cesaris crashed 19 times during his 81 season. To achieve that he crashed sometimes on the same weekend in practice and the race.

 

EDIT:

The absolute highlight came when McLaren withdrew his car from the starting list of the Zandvoort GP, after he qualified for the race.

 

http://www.grandprix.../gpe/rr354.html

Edited by HP, 07 July 2018 - 15:58.

[Rob G]

Special mention has to go to Derek Daly, who in 1980 somersaulted over half a dozen cars at Monaco, plowed through a field at the Osterreichring, and cartwheeled onto a barrier at Zandvoort. He ended the last five consecutive races of the season climbing from wreckage.

[statman]

Have to check when I get home, but I remember Michael Andretti at McLaren writing off some cars in succession

[absinthedude]

Alliot was pretty bent on destruction, wasn't it him who sprayed a Ligier across the Mexico City track after flying into the fence at top speed? I thought him a strange choice for Peugeot's 1990s assault on endurance racing but I recall him doing quite well, and being pretty consistent in F1 when he returned for 1993.

[FLB]

Alliot was pretty bent on destruction, wasn't it him who sprayed a Ligier across the Mexico City track after flying into the fence at top speed? 

It was, but it wasn't a Ligier. That was a Larrousse Lola-Ford, in 1988.

[TF110]

Don't lynch me buttttt, remember Sato? 

[Henri Greuter]

Accodring to Doug Nye (DCN on TNF)'s Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car, vo. 2 1966-91, Philippe Alliot wrote off eleven Ligiers in 1990... 

 

 

Were that 11 monocoques as well??

I know about that frightening '81 season of De Cesaris that he did not wreck a large numbers of monocoques in the process.

 

I recall about that season that it was said that Andrea had by far the most crashes, giving the MP4 carbon coques perhaps the hardest workout but approving the merit of carbon fibre coques. But the crash of Watson in Monza was the hardes and worst of all crashes for any McLaren that year, making all those crashes of de Cesaris to prove the merit of carbon fibre coques unnecessary with one single bang....

[TennisUK]

de Cesaris 1981. Thread finished ;)

[absinthedude]

It is worth noting that De Cesaris was always fast, and by the later stages of his career he was very consistent too. His year with Jordan was a revelation, and really he could easily have won the 1991 Belgian GP beating Senna.

 

But 1981 was truly frightening....I remember thinking he was going to kill himself.

[messy]

I remember Ukyo Katayama seemingly on a mission to kill himself one year in the mid to late nineties? 1997? Might be remembering it wrong though. The worst I can actually remember is Maldonado in 2012. The only year he actually had a competitive car and he wasted God knows how many good results that year.

In Motorsport overall though, Kris Meeke. Every five rallies it seemed one win, four mangled Citroens sticking out of a ditch.

[HistoryFan]

Grosjean 2012 and 2018....

[HistoryFan]

Zonta 1999 had also two big shunts.

[DarthWillie]

Like already mentioned, DeCecaris ends this thread. 21 crashes, not allowed to start 1 race by his team for his own safety, despite his father being a big shot at Marlboro, paying the team for his son to drive. Frightening

[Henri Greuter]

Like already mentioned, DeCecaris ends this thread. 21 crashes, not allowed to start 1 race by his team for his own safety, despite his father being a big shot at Marlboro, paying the team for his son to drive. Frightening

 

 

According Heinz Prüller in Grand Prix Story 81, Zandvoort, (Dutch version, page 171)

De Cesaris had a `total loss of brakes`, his 21st accident of the season. Officially, it was impossible to adjust the pedals and seat of John Watson's practice car, the truth: the team finally got scared that he would seriously injure himself.

 

In Andrea's defence, I don't know it this 21th accident is a mechanic failure you can attribite to him. But for sure that within the 20 others before there were a few that could be blamed entirely to Andrea.

 

Page 183 about Monza:  Prüller mentions that De Cesaris eventually had 25 crashes that entire 1981 season !!!!

[potmotr]

How many crashes for Grosjean so far this season, including practice, qualifying and the races?

 

He crashed three times in the Silverstone weekend...

[HistoryFan]

 

 

Hartley has had three crashes this season: Spain (his fault), Canada (Stroll's fault), Silverstone (suspension's fault).

 

 

There was also Monaco - when Leclerc heavily ran into him in the last laps of the race.
 

[HistoryFan]

How many crashes for Grosjean so far this season, including practice, qualifying and the races?

 

He crashed three times in the Silverstone weekend...

 

Then there was the crash in the opening lap at Barcelona, the crash in Baku

 

can't remember if there were more in practice or qualifyings. But there must be I think

[Chmielinski]

Then there was the crash in the opening lap at Barcelona, the crash in Baku

 

can't remember if there were more in practice or qualifyings. But there must be I think

 

He also crashed in Q3 in France.

[HistoryFan]

Diniz had 9 accidents, spins, collisions or pile-ups ending his races in 1999.

[HistoryFan]

most retirements due to accidents/collisions/spins

1. Ricciardo Patrese 40

2. David Coulthard 35

3. Andrea de Cesaris 32

3. Rubens Barrichello 32

3. Michael Schumacher 32

6. Jean Alesi 31

6. Ralf Schumacher 31

8. Nelson Piquet 30

8. Johnny Herbert 30

8. Giancarlo Fisichella 30

[HistoryFan]

He also crashed in Q3 in France.

and he was also blamed by race control for the start crash

[7MGTEsup]

most retirements due to accidents/collisions/spins

1. Ricciardo Patrese 40

2. David Coulthard 35

3. Andrea de Cesaris 32

3. Rubens Barrichello 32

3. Michael Schumacher 32

6. Jean Alesi 31

6. Ralf Schumacher 31

8. Nelson Piquet 30

8. Johnny Herbert 30

8. Giancarlo Fisichella 30

 

So there is a statistic where Schumacher and DeCesaris are on equal terms that's something I never thought I would see lol

[STIGG]

I really think Yuji Ide could have fought for this title had his career not being cut short after having is super licence revoked. 

[andyscoot]

Addressing your OP:

 

Hartley has had three crashes this season: Spain (his fault), Canada (Stroll's fault), Silverstone (suspension's fault).

 

For context, his team mate Gasly has also crashed three times: Spain (taken out by Grosjean on first lap), Paul Ricard (took out Ocon on first lap), Austria (broke suspension on the kerbs). 

 

I'd say the crasher of 2018 would be Grosjean, surely? 

 

Of all time.. perhaps Maldonado?

 

Didn't Leclerc smash into Hartley when his brakes failed at Monaco?

[HistoryFan]

yes, as I already mentioned.

[Taxi]

I remember Piquet saying in a Interview that when not in front he felt demotivated "Looking to the side and seeing De Cesaris [pew expression]"

[Thursday]

How about David Coulthard 1998? 

At Spa he caused a crash at the start that involved 13 cars and later was responsible for Schumacher running into the back of his Mclaren.

Admittedly he didn't have any other race ending accidents that year, I dont know about practice seasons, but he racked up a pretty impressive repair bill that day. 

[Loosenut]

Do you remember this incident when Pastor took a scooter back to the pits?

https://youtu.be/8dCYShLiE4Y

[Crazy Canuck]

Do you remember this incident when Pastor took a scooter back to the pits?

https://youtu.be/8dCYShLiE4Y

 

Totally worth watching through to the end.

 

 

Also, de Crasheris for the win.

 

 

 

CC

[Spillage]

It has to be De Cesaris. He managed to finish less than a quarter of all the races he started - which is seriously impressive in a 200+ race career.

 

Guy Ligier on sacking him in 1985: "I can no longer afford the services of this young man..."

Edited by Spillage, 10 July 2018 - 14:29.

[sopa]

 

But 1981 was truly frightening....I remember thinking he was going to kill himself.

 

Probably the phrase that de Cesaris has 7 (or 9?) lives wasn't created without a reason.

[Eff1]

Ralf Schumacher used to spin off into the gravel on his own quite often (so probably didn't rack up a big repair bill).

 

I think Maldonado had an incredible number of incidents/crashes during his time in F1 - some of them utterly ludicrous. 

[sopa]

Looks like Grosjean is putting in some real effort this season to catch up with some of the crashing legends though.

[Henri Greuter]

It has to be De Cesaris. He managed to finish less than a quarter of all the races he started - which is seriously impressive in a 200+ race career.

 

Guy Ligier on sacking him in 1985: "I can no longer afford the services of this young man..."

 

 

To rub some more salt in the wounds of de Cesaris: Perhaps we should also keep in mind how many races a season had.

1981 had 15 GPs, de Cesaris thas participated in 30 days of practice and 14 race days and had 25 crashes: thus on average more that 1.66 wrecks in each GP weekend.

 

Maybe there will be drivers in longer seasons and more races crashing more times, but this average for 1981, whow.....

 

Funny fact about being fired by Ligier: Ligier had Gitanes tobacco sponsorship, how what was literally was a `Marlboro child` licje Andrea could end up with a rival ....

[Oho]

Admittedly he didn't have any other race ending accidents that year...

 

He did spin out of GP of UK but I am not sure he crashed into anything.....

[JG]

Jos Verstappen was even better than his son... At crashing anyway.