52 replies to this topic

[Ben1445]

Really no thread for this yet? Shootout is happening soon... 

(16:00 local) 

 

[OvDrone]

Yeah, the forums have been real slow/quiet this weekend. I guess it's just the Summer vibe, holidays or blues.

 

Gonna watch this for damn sure. Thanks for the headsup.

[ensign14]

I posted these in the Nostalgia Forum...

 

^ The best traffic jam ever?



^ Stewart, Stewart, and Stewart



^ Humbled by nature



^ The Holy Grail



^ better than the red carpet



^ Goodwood Housemartins



^ Gerry Judah never disappoints



^ "They call me Renault Yellow..."



^ modern-day artistry

[PayasYouRace]

I did have a little giggle earlier when the Porsche 911 GT3 rear ended the 962 at the top of the hill.

[OvDrone]

What the f*** did I just watch?

[PiperPa42]

A world record being set, didn't you listen

[OvDrone]

Shout out to the Euro Whelen Series.

[OvDrone]

Emanuele Pirro in a Nascar Cup car.

Edited by OvDrone, 15 July 2018 - 15:40.

[PayasYouRace]

Billy Monger doing a great job.

[PiperPa42]

Great run by Billy Monger

[PayasYouRace]

The way Rod Millen's Toyota bucks about. Insane 

[PiperPa42]

That ID R just looks fast.

[OvDrone]

Loved that. Quality entertainment.

[Vielleicht]

EVs first and second at FOS.

 

Who'd have prediced that 5-10 years ago?

Edited by Vielleicht, 15 July 2018 - 16:00.

[PayasYouRace]

Watching that VW, I don't know how anyone can say there's no excitement or passion with EVs in motorsport. That was amazing.

[Ben1445]

Good fun. Enjoyed that. 

 

...what is the EV equivalent of 'petrolhead'? 

[PayasYouRace]

Good fun. Enjoyed that. 

 

...what is the EV equivalent of 'petrolhead'? 

 

Sparkhead? 

[Vielleicht]

I feel like it should have an E pun in it somehow. Like 'Revolutionar-E'.

[PayasYouRace]

Going to wind back to the start of the shootout to see what I missed.

 

 

I feel like it should have an E pun in it somehow. Like 'Revolutionar-E'.

 

That's terrible.

[TennisUK]

Had a great time yesterday. Obviously hill climb is a specialism that particularly favours electric cars, but blimey they are impressive.

Conversely the 28 litre 4 cylinder S76 was also massively impressive for entirely different reasons.

And that, my friends is why Goodwood is so good.

[BuddyHolly]

That was great  ...although somewhat spoiled for me personally by the electric crap at the end but I guess 99% of people loved it

 

Seriously I would dearly love to go there, would be heaven.

[JHSingo]

Watching that VW, I don't know how anyone can say there's no excitement or passion with EVs in motorsport. That was amazing.

 

The great thing about an event like Goodwood is the real variety of machines you see going up the hill, from all eras of motorsport, and appreciate all the different shapes and noises. While impressive to see that car doing that time here and at Pikes Peak, I still can't help find the increasing move to muted turbos and silent electric cars rather depressing. There's no difference from one electric car to the next in noise, and for that reason it doesn't matter how fast they are, if it's a grid of silent or near silent cars, I'll struggle to care as much. I can see noisy racing cars becoming a thing of the past in contemporary motorsport, and find it a real shame. Engine noise isn't just "wasted energy" as some people claim, it's an essential part of what makes cars and motorsport appealing, and I'm sure I won't be alone with that opinion.

 

I don't know what the manufacturers and rule makers can do about it. I don't think I'd ever advocate for electric racing cars having some artificial noise making device, because that would be equally sad. I just hope Goodwood continues for years to come, so that we can still have some connection with the iconic engine noises of the past. 

[TennisUK]

I would recommend two days. When I last went in 1995(!) it was far easier to see everything but now there is so much more to see and so many more people getting in the way.

[Vielleicht]

The great thing about an event like Goodwood is the real variety of machines you see going up the hill, from all eras of motorsport, and appreciate all the different shapes and noises. While impressive to see that car doing that time here and at Pikes Peak, I still can't help find the increasing move to muted turbos and silent electric cars rather depressing. There's no difference from one electric car to the next in noise, and for that reason it doesn't matter how fast they are, if it's a grid of silent or near silent cars, I'll struggle to care as much. I can see noisy racing cars becoming a thing of the past in contemporary motorsport, and find it a real shame. Engine noise isn't just "wasted energy" as some people claim, it's an essential part of what makes cars and motorsport appealing, and I'm sure I won't be alone with that opinion.

 

I don't know what the manufacturers and rule makers can do about it. I don't think I'd ever advocate for electric racing cars having some artificial noise making device, because that would be equally sad. I just hope Goodwood continues for years to come, so that we can still have some connection with the iconic engine noises of the past. 

Well this is certainly two things we can agree on. Had the luck of using a BMW i8 for a week once and they play a V8 sound through the internal speakers that you, for some odd reason, cannot turn off. Was really quite... dissatisfying. Trying to be something it wasn't.

 

The issue with the sound or even just the raw emotional connection is a really personal one and I think just depends on your own experiences and to what degree the arrival of EVs mean to you; the end of an era versus the beginning of a new one. So I can't argue really - it is what it is.

[ensign14]

Few more...

OK...



^ Citroen Bijou - very rare in the UK



^ this is actually a Reliant Scimitar



^ only Rolls-Royce could make an elegant Chelsea tractor



^ the first-ever Polestar, a sort of skunkwork Volvo. The engineer, Joakim Rydholm, was driving, and he seemed to be the happiest person alive to be at Goodwood.



^ Nio EP9. Peter Dumbreck up. This thing was seriously scary - the proverbial off a shovel and quiet as a ghost.



^ Gordon Murray's Rocket



^ slightly patinated Michelotti XK140



^ THE Steve McQueen Bullitt Mustang



^ Ferrari LaFerrari Aperta. Or Smith Open The Smith.



^ Brabham in Brabham; the delicious BT62



^ I want this with a desire that is almost carnal. Aston Martin Cygnet...vee eight.


Racing cars to come.

Incidentally, I'd recommend 2 days as well. One to look around everything and get shots of the cars when static. And one to watch them up the hill.

[Widefoot2]

Good fun. Enjoyed that. 

 

...what is the EV equivalent of 'petrolhead'? 

Andre Watterer...

[F1 Mike]

I would recommend camping for the full weekend. There's so much to take in and one or even two days just wouldn't seem like enough. The camping experience itself is also very pleasant with a friendly vibe.

I was there last year and couldn't stop smiling the whole time.
Fantastic facilities and the best thing is getting within touching distance of all the iconic machines of years past and newly released showpieces / concept cars etc.i
You'll also find legends like Dickie Stanford happy to chat away about the cars in the paddock area and if you're around at the right time you'll maybe catch an autograph or two when drivers are leaving or returning from their hill runs.

The electric cars are impressive but I agree they have less of the wow factor on the hillcimb.

Couldn't make it this year but will be back next year for sure

Edited by F1 Mike, 15 July 2018 - 23:44.

[JHSingo]

The issue with the sound or even just the raw emotional connection is a really personal one and I think just depends on your own experiences and to what degree the arrival of EVs mean to you; the end of an era versus the beginning of a new one. So I can't argue really - it is what it is.

 

Fair point. I think I've made my views on this forum regarding EVs plenty well known enough over the years, so I won't derail this thread with that. However, I am concerned about the potential decrease in interest motorsport will see as electric racing cars becomes increasingly common. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I think engine noise is more important to people than it really is. Maybe there's enough EV enthusiasts to counteract any lose of interest from traditional fans.  But, just based on the amount of talk that still goes on about the V6Ts in F1, I think it's likely 'lack of engine noise' will become a recurring complaint from traditional fans over the next few years. 

Edited by JHSingo, 16 July 2018 - 12:50.

[ensign14]

Quick history of Grande Epreuve cars...
 

 
^ 1903: Napier
 

 
^ 1908: Darracq
 

 
^ 1912: Cottin & Desgouttes
 

 
^ 1924: Voisin
 

 
^ 1930s: Auto Union and Mercedes
 

 
^ 1939: Mercedes trolls the Italians
 

 
^ 1951: BRM (now this had a noise)
 

 
^ 1962: Lotus (Indianapolis)
 

 
^ 1963-73: Lotus and Tyrrell - Sir Jackie ahead of Paul and Mark
 

 
^ 1968: Eagle (also Indy)
 

 
^ 1979: Renault (Arnoux up)
 

 
^ 1980: Indy winning driver and car - Lone Star JR in Chaparral
 

 
^ 1986: the original Haas
 

 
^ 1987: Osella cutie
 

 
^ 2012: Fauxtus E20 in unfamiliar garb
 

 
^ 2017: Mercedes W08 (George Russell up)

[ensign14]

 

And a Tatuus F4, more notable for being driven by Billy Monger.

[LBDN]

Fair point. I think I've made my views on this forum regarding EVs plenty well known enough over the years, so I won't derail this thread with that. However, I am concerned about the potential decrease in interest motorsport will see as electric racing cars becomes increasingly common. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I think engine noise is more important to people than it really is. Maybe there's enough EV enthusiasts to counteract any lose of interest from traditional fans. But, just based on the amount of talk that still goes on about the V6Ts in F1, I think it's likely 'lack of engine noise' will become a recurring complaint from traditional fans over the next few years.

My interest in attending live F1 events certainly reduced massively when the cars became quieter. The noise is what contributes to making motorsport what it is.

Without the noise its almost like watching cycling

[Roadhouse]

For me it's not the loudness, but the 'emotion' of a car revving, it doesn't have to be earshattering (rather not actually).

 

This was the first time I followed Goodwood, spent every spare minute last weekend watching the livestream. Definitely trying to go there next year!

[Murl]

I posted these in the Nostalgia Forum...

 

^ The best traffic jam ever?

 

 

Thanks for all your great pics!

 

Really want to make it there one day, you are doing you bit to motivate me

[paulb]

Spectacular pics, ensign14! Thanks for sharing.

[Sterzo]

Fabulous photos and great captions, ensign14, very much appreciated!  You can have the Aston Martin Cygnet, if I may have the Cottin & Desgouttes, please.

[Tenmantaylor]

Highlights if the shootout for me were the RS200, MC12, Billy Monger, Mike Skinner and the NIO Ep9. Pretty much road EV supercar nearly beating the works VW EV attempt!

[Ben1445]

Couple of interesting points about emotion and personal connection on the EV issue. 

 

My perception of EVs is one of hope. When you grow up in an onslaught of 'climate change is happening' it's hard not to pick up a background unease about ICEs, especially in racing where it's largely just for the fun of it - so loving motorsport and having concerns for the climate was a conflicting situation. To have EVs and EV racing entering the frame is a sense of release and freedom that I can't really explain how but that's such a strong feeling to me.

 

Bottom line is it makes me happy that two things I rank high up in my personal identity can stop being a conflict and join up as one. Also Formula E's story has an emotional appeal in that it has succeeded (so far) when so many though it would fail and it has done so beating most reasonable expectations. That adds a layer of against-the-odds-underdog that I also click very strongly with. I guess when I think of my connection that way, I can understand other people's personal connections may be a barrier to fully enjoying EV racing and that it's hard to put forward any argument to change that.  

 

For the reasons above I enjoyed seeing EVs on show and going 1-2 at the hillclimb in this instance, but I too hope that the Festival of Speed remains a celebration of the story of automobile technology from early spluttering motor wagons to screaming V10s to whirring, clean EVs.

[Dan333SP]

Quick history of Grande Epreuve cars...
 


 

 
^ 2017: Mercedes W08 (George Russell up)

 

Great pics! FWIW, that's a 2016 W07 in 2017 livery. It's much narrower with a higher rear wing than the W08. 

[7MGTEsup]

Great pics! FWIW, that's a 2016 W07 in 2017 livery. It's much narrower with a higher rear wing than the W08. 

 

The skinny rear tyres are a dead give away.

[Myrvold]

Highlights if the shootout for me were the RS200!

Which of them? I don't really care for Liam Doran, so... However, it was utterly amazing to see the x-Rennison RS200. A bit sad that no-one have dug out Rennison from whereever he went in to hiding though.

Actually, it would've been quite awesome to drag out the old RX guys for a Goodwood meet-up. Bring out Arnesson (he still got his Quattro). Schanche (Not sure if he has any of his RS200 anymore, but I know that at least 1.5 Schanche RS200's is in Norway). Gollop with the Metro. Maybe someone got a 205RX for Alamäki as well. Not many years since I last saw Rantanen having his RS200 for sale, he might still have his as well.

That would be a fun sight up the hill

[7MGTEsup]

Which of them? I don't really care for Liam Doran, so... However, it was utterly amazing to see the x-Rennison RS200. A bit sad that no-one have dug out Rennison from whereever he went in to hiding though.

Actually, it would've been quite awesome to drag out the old RX guys for a Goodwood meet-up. Bring out Arnesson (he still got his Quattro). Schanche (Not sure if he has any of his RS200 anymore, but I know that at least 1.5 Schanche RS200's is in Norway). Gollop with the Metro. Maybe someone got a 205RX for Alamäki as well. Not many years since I last saw Rantanen having his RS200 for sale, he might still have his as well.

That would be a fun sight up the hill

 

Now there's two names I remember well from the 80's, they made NASCAR look tame when it came to trading paint.

[Tenmantaylor]

Not sure which one it was, preceded the M4 DTM car. White one with the highest wing I've seen!

[JHSingo]

Couple of interesting points about emotion and personal connection on the EV issue. 

 

My perception of EVs is one of hope. When you grow up in an onslaught of 'climate change is happening' it's hard not to pick up a background unease about ICEs, especially in racing where it's largely just for the fun of it - so loving motorsport and having concerns for the climate was a conflicting situation. To have EVs and EV racing entering the frame is a sense of release and freedom that I can't really explain how but that's such a strong feeling to me.

 

Bottom line is it makes me happy that two things I rank high up in my personal identity can stop being a conflict and join up as one. Also Formula E's story has an emotional appeal in that it has succeeded (so far) when so many though it would fail and it has done so beating most reasonable expectations. That adds a layer of against-the-odds-underdog that I also click very strongly with. I guess when I think of my connection that way, I can understand other people's personal connections may be a barrier to fully enjoying EV racing and that it's hard to put forward any argument to change that.  

 

For the reasons above I enjoyed seeing EVs on show and going 1-2 at the hillclimb in this instance, but I too hope that the Festival of Speed remains a celebration of the story of automobile technology from early spluttering motor wagons to screaming V10s to whirring, clean EVs.

 

Interesting post, thanks. 

 

For me, I grew up pushing my toy cars around on the living room carpet imitating racing engines, or running around in the garden doing the same. Yes, I was a strange kid!   But having gone to so many race meetings from an early age, I guess the engine noise aspect is ingrained in me quite strongly. I can still remember the first time I heard an F1 V10 engine in person. So the idea of silent racing cars is still an alien concept to me, and one I struggle to adapt to. I've tried watching Formula E, but I just can't ignore what is missing. It feels odd, in some way I probably can't explain as well as I wish I could. It annoys me when people just dismiss engine noise as "wasted energy", or when people say it doesn't matter. I question whether those people really "get" motorsport.

 

On the environment thing as well, that is something that I've never had a problem with. The impact motor racing has on the environment is pretty small, in the grand scheme of things. I remember once reading a stat (alas, I don't know if it was entirely accurate) that the London Marathon produces more carbon dioxide than an entire season's worth of F1 racing. Plus, I've always found it quite ironic there is so much focus on the race cars, when F1 does far more damage with the amount of air travel it does, flying cars, equipment and people to all these different countries. I'm not dismissing your view, of course, it's interesting to read from someone else's perspective. 

 

I guess in some ways I'm hypocritical, though. I live by the side of a busy main road, and find myself getting irritated with the amount of loud boy racer cars and bikes that go past on a daily basis. I'd be happy if road vehicles were silent (up until I stepped into the road and was run over by one I never heard coming  ) but yeah, silent engines in motorsport is just something I can't get behind.

Edited by JHSingo, 18 July 2018 - 14:16.

[DS27]

I'd be happy if road vehicles were silent (up until I stepped into the road and was run over by one I never heard coming  ) but yeah, silent engines in motorsport is just something I can't get behind.

 

We live in the country so most days during the week our dog gets walked down narrow, twisty, but quiet country lanes where you encounter cars rarely. My other half has been doing this for over ten years with no issues as you can hear cars / tractors, etc coming and tuck yourself in. In the last few months there has been a couple of occasions where she has had a close call with a 'silent' electric vehicle.

 

Road accident statistics with regard to pedestrians will go through the roof once EV's become commonplace; of that I have no doubt.

[Dan333SP]

We live in the country so most days during the week our dog gets walked down narrow, twisty, but quiet country lanes where you encounter cars rarely. My other half has been doing this for over ten years with no issues as you can hear cars / tractors, etc coming and tuck yourself in. In the last few months there has been a couple of occasions where she has had a close call with a 'silent' electric vehicle.

 

Road accident statistics with regard to pedestrians will go through the roof once EV's become commonplace; of that I have no doubt.

 

As a cyclist I've had plenty of "surprises" where I look over my shoulder before moving into a travel lane to turn or avoid some road debris, and I'm shocked to see that there's an EV or hybrid right next to me. Didn't the EU implement some sort of mandatory noise generator for EVs so that they can be heard by pedestrians from a reasonable distance? 

[PayasYouRace]

Surely as they become more commonplace people will get more used to checking for them visually? Right now it’s a problem because they’re still rare.

[Dan333SP]

http://www.dailymail...edestrians.html

[7MGTEsup]

They should have active noise so they sound like they have a Matra V12.

[BRG]

Surely as they become more commonplace people will get more used to checking for them visually? Right now it’s a problem because they’re still rare.

Only if we replace the current type of pedestrian with one that is equipped with some sort of improved artificial intelligence. The current breed walks around in headphones staring at their phone and never bother to look up at all.

[Dan333SP]

They should have active noise so they sound like they have a Matra V12.

 

QFT.