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Daniel Ricciardo vs Max Verstappen 2018: Part 3


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#1 Risil

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:16

New thread. Please discuss the current season's happenings of the senior Red Bull pair here.



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#2 Roadhouse

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:20

So that 2014 season huh, fair or not? J/k

Hope my 2 favorite drivers can kick some ass this weekend! (preferably not eachother's)

#3 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:24

K Lewis out it seems, this greatly increases Max odds.

#4 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:27

So is this a no-score weekend for qually? Clearly Dan doesn’t have a shot and there’s no point in him pushing if he’s 20th regardless, even if others take penalties apparently.

Enjoy those Honda’s next year Red Bull. Both out in Q1. Ricciardo should take a sabbatical.

#5 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:32

There you go. Dan not even in the car for Q2.

#6 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:42

So is this a no-score weekend for qually? Clearly Dan doesn’t have a shot and there’s no point in him pushing if he’s 20th regardless, even if others take penalties apparently.

Enjoy those Honda’s next year Red Bull. Both out in Q1. Ricciardo should take a sabbatical.


So when something technical puts Dan out of the competition it needs to be a no score? Isn’t that unfair to Max you guys still count the technical setback of Max as a win for Dan. What if Max puts a perfect lap? Would that be fair to Max?

#7 Risil

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:43

So when something technical puts Dan out of the competition it needs to be a no score? Isn’t that unfair to Max you guys still count the technical setback of Max as a win for Dan. What if Max puts a perfect lap? Would that be fair to Max?

 

I think there's no need to be getting into technicalities just yet. The fact that one driver might have good or bad luck that the other doesn't receive is the reason why people who want to stay sane don't count up teammate vs teammate scores through the season.



#8 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 13:45

So when something technical puts Dan out of the competition it needs to be a no score? Isn’t that unfair to Max you guys still count the technical setback of Max as a win for Dan. What if Max puts a perfect lap? Would that be fair to Max?


I await your comments when Max has to take his medicine (penalties) at a future race, and the shoe is on the other foot.

Dan hasn’t broken the car himself, unlike Verstappen multiple times.

#9 gowebber

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:02

Max a fair way off on that first Q3 run. Did he make a mistake?

#10 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:14

Max a fair way off on that first Q3 run. Did he make a mistake?

 same second run, losing 0.5 in middle sector. very disappointing result.



#11 RPM40

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:16

So when something technical puts Dan out of the competition it needs to be a no score? Isn’t that unfair to Max you guys still count the technical setback of Max as a win for Dan. What if Max puts a perfect lap? Would that be fair to Max?

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.

#12 Vollegas

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:19

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.

You have got to take the sweet with the sour. Win Max. When Max will take his penalties you get to cheer.



#13 Freeze011

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:20

The RBR looked almost lethargic on the straights compared to the Ferrari powered cars. When we had an on board i thought the car had an issue... And that is where they lost 5 tenths.



#14 RPM40

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:22

You have got to take the sweet with the sour. Win Max. When Max will take his penalties you get to cheer.


Unlikely, it’s about as satisfying as an own goal.

#15 Thatfastguy

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:23

8 - 3 in q to Max. Not sure but must be one of the most one-sided q battles on the grid.

#16 DaanF1

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:24

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.


Er, Dan took part on Q1. Max beat him there. Bye.

#17 goldenboy

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:24

People are actually arguing over a qually score where Dan didn't even compete because of penalties lol.

#18 Vollegas

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:24

Unlikely, it’s about as satisfying as an own goal.

Aye, pretty much.



#19 V10Benjamin

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:24

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.

I believe Dan did compete in Q1, right. In Q2  he chose not to continue. So factually he did compete in qualification. He also had a fair chance to beat Max. It's not like his car died on him. So that would be a score for Max on my card.



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#20 goldenboy

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:25

Probably the most boring qually I've seen for awhile as a red bull fan.

#21 Ospif1

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:27

Why would Dan push 100% in Q1 knowing it was meaningless?  It would have been used to gather data, not to risk the car when no risk was required.  Use your heads people.



#22 DILLIGAF

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:30

Great Q3 lap from Max. To only be 6/10ths off pole at this track is as good as he could possibly do imho. Anyone see the speed trap numbers in Q3? Max was giving up about 14kph in the straights to the Ferrari in Q2.

Definite podium chance tomorrow for Max. Hopefully Dan can work his way up to 6th or better.

#23 SenorSjon

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:32

So it is 8-3 or 7-1 now? You can't have it both ways. ;)

#24 Freeze011

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:33

Great Q3 lap from Max. To only be 6/10ths off pole at this track is as good as he could possibly do imho. Anyone see the speed trap numbers in Q3? Max was giving up about 14kph in the straights to the Ferrari in Q2.

Definite podium chance tomorrow for Max. Hopefully Dan can work his way up to 6th or better.

RBR was the slowest car of all on the straights, even 7kph slower than Hulkenbergs Renault >.< in Q3.



#25 Ospif1

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:40

Have they gone for a lower DF config for Ricciardo?



#26 Freeze011

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:43

Have they gone for a lower DF config for Ricciardo?

When they had him on board in Q1 he barely reached 308 kph on the straight, so dont know, but if that is the effect of low DF.... yikes.



#27 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:49

As long Monaco is count for Ricciardo today should count for Max. 



#28 Afaf

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 14:56

Really disappointing result tbh after the pace in FP. I mean pole was probably always off the cards but thought that margin would be smaller. That's 2 disappointing weeks in a row in terms of pace for RB, hopefully not a new trend. Also a h2h quali comparison for the drivers this week is dumb.



#29 MastaKink

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:02

As long Monaco is count for Ricciardo today should count for Max. 

 

If Dan had caused the penalty then sure. Otherwise not sure how that works as a like for like. 

 

I'd be surprised if Max doesn't have a PU grid drop at some point so it will even up whether it's counted or not.



#30 DILLIGAF

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:11

When they had him on board in Q1 he barely reached 308 kph on the straight, so dont know, but if that is the effect of low DF.... yikes.


Wow, that's worse than I thought. I think Kimi was clocked at 325kph. Renault have really stalled with their engine development this season. I hope Honda produce something decent next year or RB will have a number of years without any chance of a title.

#31 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:14

If Dan had caused the penalty then sure. Otherwise not sure how that works as a like for like. 

 

I'd be surprised if Max doesn't have a PU grid drop at some point so it will even up whether it's counted or not.

 

It's the Q performance we judge, not FP. 

 

If Ric now could/choose not to compete, same counts for Max.

 

Max last year has won Q battle while having grid penalties if i remember correct. It's not like he not could compete, he just (full understandable) choose not to do.



#32 Ivanhoe

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:14

Of course there’s no quali score today, I have every confidence in our score keeper DeVol 👍🏼
Quite hilarious this is even discussed.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 21 July 2018 - 15:14.


#33 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:17

Of course there’s no quali score today, I have every confidence in our score keeper DeVol
Quite hilarious this is even discussed.

 

How sow, last year it was 13-7 with 20 races. How often did they have grid penalty's? all are count are they not?



#34 DILLIGAF

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:18

Another question. With Dan starting 20th for taking a new MGU-K, ES and CE, why would he not take a new ICE, turbo and MGU-H as well?

#35 Kao18

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:19

So what did you guys think of Hamiltons' mistake today in Q1? Was this something Max would have been heavily criticised for early this season?

#36 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:26

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.


It isn’t so much different when you crash due to technical issues, cause you crashed at a place that is super easy normally, the only logical conclusion is technical and not a driver error.

#37 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:26

So what did you guys think of Hamiltons' mistake today in Q1? Was this something Max would have been heavily criticised for early this season?

 

Yes, but with Hamilton's start mistake last GP and now this, same will happen with him if he keeps making mistakes. At bbc radio (f1 app commentary) they where very critical towards Hamilton already. 



#38 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:28

not competing is very different to crashing. Max beat no one today.

 

Ric. beat no one during Monaco Q.



#39 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:29

So what did you guys think of Hamiltons' mistake today in Q1? Was this something Max would have been heavily criticised for early this season?


For sure this was more driver inflicted elimination than Bahrain but because the damage was mostly internal people think of it as “technical”.

Hamilton today was driver error most likely caused the damage to car but no crash so people are mild.
Verstappen was most likely technical error that caused a crash but because that software fault isn’t visible people try to write it off as a driver error because they either can’t or don’t want to accept the huge influence of gearbox software on driveability of the car.

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#40 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:30

Another question. With Dan starting 20th for taking a new MGU-K, ES and CE, why would he not take a new ICE, turbo and MGU-H as well?


Don’t have the list but doesn’t he have a free exchange waiting for those? Or they expecting an update soon from Renault?

#41 SmallHorsey

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:32

So Ricciardo didn't even make Q2? Pretty embarassing.

#42 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:33

Ric. beat no one during Monaco Q.


Ric didn’t beat Max in Q Bahrain, that was a technical out also. But yeah because software caused the crash some find it hard to believe. Software was already big influence when I was working with a GT race team about 18 years ago, let alone in F1 now.

#43 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:34

So Ricciardo didn't even make Q2? Pretty embarassing.


Ric easily drove to Q2, but as he explained by not driving he has all his options open for tomorrow. It is a tactical choice.

#44 zanquis

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 15:37

So it is 8-3 or 7-1 now? You can't have it both ways. ;)


7-2 they can keep Monaco the other 2 are technical. If not than just 8-3 it is.

#45 MastaKink

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:06

It's the Q performance we judge, not FP. 

 

If Ric now could/choose not to compete, same counts for Max.

 

Max last year has won Q battle while having grid penalties if i remember correct. It's not like he not could compete, he just (full understandable) choose not to do.

 

Right, but if that performance in FP affects your Q then it's on you. Bit different from a grid drop because of reliability out of your control.

 

How did Max choose not to compete?

 

Which weekend was that? (Genuinely can't recall).



#46 SmallHorsey

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:20

Right, but if that performance in FP affects your Q then it's on you. Bit different from a grid drop because of reliability out of your control.

How did Max choose not to compete?

Which weekend was that? (Genuinely can't recall).

It was pretty early on. 30th of February I believe.

#47 Maxioos

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:23

Right, but if that performance in FP affects your Q then it's on you. Bit different from a grid drop because of reliability out of your control.

 

How did Max choose not to compete?

 

Which weekend was that? (Genuinely can't recall).

 

Monza, they both took penalties, so little different. 

 

In Amerika Max had grid penalties, known before Q, lost Q, counted for Ricciardo. https://www.autospor...nalty-for-us-gp

Q result: https://www.f1today....e-united-states

counted for Ricciardo? 100% yes.

 

In Mexico Ric. had grid penalties and situation was reversed. 

 

But, basis is same. 


Edited by Maxioos, 21 July 2018 - 16:26.


#48 Ivanhoe

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:29

Monza, they both took penalties, so little different.

In Amerika Max had grid penalties, known before Q, lost Q, counted for Ricciardo. https://www.autospor...nalty-for-us-gp
Q result: https://www.f1today....e-united-states
counted for Ricciardo? 100% yes.

In Mexico Ric. had grid penalties and situation was reversed.

But, basis is same.

Different rules and still grid positions to fight for, so that was a real Q3 battle. Dan knew he would start at the back anyhow here in Hockenheim, can’t call this a quali battle.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 21 July 2018 - 16:30.


#49 MastaKink

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:36

Monza, they both took penalties, so little different. 

 

In Amerika Max had grid penalties, known before Q, lost Q, counted for Ricciardo. https://www.autospor...nalty-for-us-gp

Q result: https://www.f1today....e-united-states

counted for Ricciardo? 100% yes.

 

In Mexico Ric. had grid penalties and situation was reversed. 

 

But, basis is same. 

 

Yeah Monza they were in the same boat so it's obviously fair to count. Those counting for US may have done so because of it going to Q3 and it being so close? Not sure we've ever had 100% agreeing to count anything tbh though. 



#50 SmallHorsey

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 16:37

Different rules and still grid positions to fight for, so that was a real Q3 battle. Dan knew he would start at the back anyhow here in Hockenheim, can’t call this a quali battle.

Surely no one is seriously claiming that this was a genuine qualifying battle?

Edited by SmallHorsey, 21 July 2018 - 16:38.