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Rivals question Ferrari's Power Unit legality


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#101 Jon83

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:26

The biggest problem in this thread is that 80% of those commenting on the subject don't even know what it is about. Yes, the update is pretty much "incredible", and has no comparable in-season precedent for as long as I've been following F1. That's why other PU manufacturers like Renault and Merc are wondering what's going on. 

 

If Merc all of a sudden brought an additional 50 hp out of the blue in Hungary, the other PU manufacturers would also ask questions. And so would I. Anyone even remotely familiar with the topic would. Instead people go to rather absurd lenghts in an attempt to shoot the messenger of this development.

 

The same messenger whose team suggested Ferrari delibertaley trying to take one of their drivers out a couple of weeks ago.

 

Spare me.



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#102 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:26

the update is pretty much "incredible", and has no comparable in-season precedent for as long as I've been following F1.

 

All the more incredible then that Ferrari went 3/6 on poles prior to Canada, and just 2/5 since their latest engine was introduced.



#103 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:27

I find it curious that the 0.5 seconds Ferrari advantage on straights was brought up in Hockenheim.

 

The top speeds to the speed trap were about 15 to 20 km/h higher in 2016 race qualifications vs. the ones in 2018.

 

So clearly there is more drag in this year's cars but I do not quite get the argument of Ferrari PU suddenly being much more powerful than Merc and rather the alleged Ferrari advantage being explained also due to better aero package.

 

Top speeds are also influenced by gearing (as well as aero as you mention). Where the power advantage will show up is in acceleration.

 

Nothing shows this better than the mini-sector comparison from Silverstone - the Merc caries so much speed through the corners but once on the power the Ferrari claws it back.

 



#104 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:29

All the more incredible then that Ferrari went 3/6 on poles prior to Canada, and just 2/5 since their latest engine was introduced.

 

Your post is a fine example of what I just said.



#105 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:31

Just go to the 1 minute mark of that video and check out how much time Seb gains after the Maggots-Becketts complex,. That amount of high-speed acceleration is something else. At the end of the video they also show a graphic of where each car was faster and the Ferrari gained time on all the straights, right from the acceleration zones when drag isn't as important.


Edited by CountDooku, 25 July 2018 - 13:33.


#106 Jon83

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:32

Incidentally, why does it matter if this update happens in-season as opposed to pre-season?

 

Also, Wolff claimed at the end of April that Ferrari held a PU advantage.


Edited by Jon83, 25 July 2018 - 13:34.


#107 Whiz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:34

Top speeds are also influenced by gearing (as well as aero as you mention). Where the power advantage will show up is in acceleration.

 

Nothing shows this better than the mini-sector comparison from Silverstone - the Merc caries so much speed through the corners but once on the power the Ferrari claws it back.

 

 

I think this video just shows the different setups of both cars. Merc better in the corners (higher downforce configuration) and the Ferrari better on the straights (lower df configuration). 

 

It is a false belief that higher topspeed = more powerful engine. 



#108 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:39

It is a false belief that higher topspeed = more powerful engine. 

 
Or maybe the Mercedes .... has a special engine mode for corners?  :eek:

 

If someone has much higher cornering speed than other teams, and I'm not saying Mercedes is that someone, because who knows, but if someone had suspiciously high cornering speeds, that's very difficult for the FIA to nail down and prove they are cheating.



#109 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:40

Top speeds are also influenced by gearing (as well as aero as you mention). Where the power advantage will show up is in acceleration.

 

Nothing shows this better than the mini-sector comparison from Silverstone - the Merc caries so much speed through the corners but once on the power the Ferrari claws it back.

 

I think the differences can be observed could also be exactly explained with the aero: Ferrari seems less draggy that also reflects the cornering (less down force).

 

However, I agree that would and not explain the Haas and Sauber improvements.



#110 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:41

I think this video just shows the different setups of both cars. Merc better in the corners (higher downforce configuration) and the Ferrari better on the straights (lower df configuration). 

 

It is a false belief that higher topspeed = more powerful engine. 

 

I usually agree with the principle but the beauty of this analysis is you can see where on the straights they start to gain time. You can also look at the pace of the gain (the acceleration of the acceleration so to speak), and the graphic at the end of the video showing you where on the track the time was gained.

 

A car running more aero should be faster in the corners but also faster in the traction and early acceleration zones, and slower towards the end of the straight. If you look at the live video and the mini-sector map at the end of the video, Ferrari are much faster in the early acceleration zones (where power is most important) but the advantage at the end the straights doesn't look that great.



#111 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:47

However, I agree that would and not explain the Haas and Sauber improvements.

 

Haas is indeed doing well, although in Germany they 'merely' equalled their starting positions they already had in Australia. It's not a giant swing; other than the street circuits they've been around that P7-P11 all year, a few individual blunders notwithstanding.

 

Sauber is a bit more complex, because they have what many are seeing as a raw diamond in Leclerc. Ericsson's starting positions have had three race average from 18 to 17 to 17 to 15. Not exactly an earth-shattering improvement either. Leclerc has indeed improved considerably, but that's perhaps to be expected.


Edited by Nonesuch, 25 July 2018 - 13:49.


#112 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:48

Incidentally, why does it matter if this update happens in-season as opposed to pre-season?

 

Also, Wolff claimed at the end of April that Ferrari held a PU advantage.

 

Exactly. The update happened during the season, doesn't mean to say work had began on it recently. It's likely something that's been worked on for ages.



#113 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:51

Here is some more: Rivals find GPS data "strange" and are scratching their heads.

 

https://www.motorspo...-gains-1063845/

 

Abiteboul's quote is instructive:

 

 

"First we know we have a power deficit, which up until now was against Mercedes," he told Motorsport.com.

"They are still here but we see indeed that Ferrari has taken the upper hand, so congratulations to Ferrari in that battle, which is more a technical battle, but less visible. The step that they have done is amazing.

"It's a step that they have done to a certain degree that does not go with a hardware introduction, it's also a step that we see across all three teams, not just Ferrari, which is not necessarily a battle for us, but also Haas and Sauber, which are more of a battle for us.

"Clearly we are scratching our heads, because we look in particular at the GPS profile, and we we see indeed that it's really strange what they are doing.

"But doing something strange doesn't mean that it's illegal. I think we must give credit to what they have done, and that should be an extra commitment to work harder, and try and do the same step on our side."



#114 P123

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:52

Or maybe the Mercedes .... has a special engine mode for corners?  :eek:
 
If someone has much higher cornering speed than other teams, and I'm not saying Mercedes is that someone, because who knows, but if someone had suspiciously high cornering speeds, that's very difficult for the FIA to nail down and prove they are cheating.


An engine mode for cornering... now there's something.... who needs aero! It could save F1. No more DRS required. :)

#115 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:55

Abiteboul's quote is instructive:

He also tells the step does not to some degree go with any hardware introduction.

 

I remember having seen an article of a new Shell fuel and lubricant introduction, about in French GP time.

 

There could be something Shell has discovered in their research as well that e.g. makes a more efficient combustion.

 

EDIT: found one from Soymotor referencing to Silverstone.

https://soymotor.com...italiana-951729


Edited by Jvr, 25 July 2018 - 13:59.


#116 Whiz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:56

I usually agree with the principle but the beauty of this analysis is you can see where on the straights they start to gain time. You can also look at the pace of the gain (the acceleration of the acceleration so to speak), and the graphic at the end of the video showing you where on the track the time was gained.

 

A car running more aero should be faster in the corners but also faster in the traction and early acceleration zones, and slower towards the end of the straight. If you look at the live video and the mini-sector map at the end of the video, Ferrari are much faster in the early acceleration zones (where power is most important) but the advantage at the end the straights doesn't look that great.

 

Well, maybe we have a physicist here on the Forum and maybe he can tell us more about the concept of drag. Is the drag higher in the acceleration phase or when you have reached your topspeed?

 

Maybe the Ferrari has just better traction? I think it is a bit easy to say that Ferrari's gains are just down to the engine.



#117 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:56

Exactly. The update happened during the season, doesn't mean to say work had began on it recently. It's likely something that's been worked on for ages.

 

Most technical developments in F1 have been worked on for a considerable amount of time before they are introduced. 



#118 Nigol

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 13:57

The biggest problem in this thread is that 80% of those commenting on the subject don't even know what it is about. Yes, the update is pretty much "incredible", and has no comparable in-season precedent for as long as I've been following F1. That's why other PU manufacturers like Renault and Merc are wondering what's going on.

 

+1



#119 JonnyJ

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:00

Well, maybe we have a physicist here on the Forum and maybe he can tell us more about the concept of drag. Is the drag higher in the acceleration phase or when you have reached your topspeed?

 

 

Im no physicist, but drag definitely increases significantly with speed.



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#120 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:00

He also tells the step does not to some degree go with any hardware introduction.

 

I remember having seen an article of a new Shell fuel and lubricant introduction, about in French GP time.

 

There could be something Shell has discovered in their research as well that e.g. makes a more efficient combustion.

 

No way do you get that kind of step from fuel or lubricants. I'm certain it's from the ERS - I don't think Ferrari have significantly more peak power than Merc, but they are certainly deploying significantly more energy over a lap in qually.



#121 shonguiz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:01

Toto speech is so petite bite.



#122 P123

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:01

Whatever... Ferrari's leap must at least give some hope to the likes of Renault and Honda, although we shouldn't forget that the Ferrari engine was already pulling more than the Merc back in Melbourne (yes, gearing, wing, etc all has an impact). That was an advantage at the end of the straights; now they also seem to have an advantage in acceleration. The fear would be that Merc can replicate it. Good to see there is still plenty of room for improvement.

#123 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:05

Well, maybe we have a physicist here on the Forum and maybe he can tell us more about the concept of drag. Is the drag higher in the acceleration phase or when you have reached your topspeed?

 

Maybe the Ferrari has just better traction? I think it is a bit easy to say that Ferrari's gains are just down to the engine.

 

Drag is significantly higher at the terminal phase as it squares with velocity.

The Ferrari is making the gains out of low, middle and high speed corners. Some have traction as a factor and some don't. This is the exact situation you would expect a car with more power and, especially, more torque to be gaining.



#124 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:08

Whatever... Ferrari's leap must at least give some hope to the likes of Renault and Honda, although we shouldn't forget that the Ferrari engine was already pulling more than the Merc back in Melbourne (yes, gearing, wing, etc all has an impact). That was an advantage at the end of the straights; now they also seem to have an advantage in acceleration. The fear would be that Merc can replicate it. Good to see there is still plenty of room for improvement.

 

Replicate it when? 2020? 2021?

 

That's what irks me a bit about Renault's and Merc's reaction. I know what they mean, and why they (feel they have to) say it, but this "work harder" stuff rings hollow, considering they've been doing exactly that (figuring out how to extract more power from the hybrids) for the last X years.



#125 Whiz

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:08

Whatever... Ferrari's leap must at least give some hope to the likes of Renault and Honda, although we shouldn't forget that the Ferrari engine was already pulling more than the Merc back in Melbourne (yes, gearing, wing, etc all has an impact). That was an advantage at the end of the straights; now they also seem to have an advantage in acceleration. The fear would be that Merc can replicate it. Good to see there is still plenty of room for improvement.

 

Merc seems to be a bit lost. Sassi apparently doesn't know anything about the new Ferrari Engine, so it has to be something that the new PU-Director Cardile developed. It was said that Sassi was a specialist for the ERS....

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they have found something related to the ICE, Turbo and not the ERS part of the engine.



#126 Claudius

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:09

I don’t know what Ferrari are doing, nobody does, but Toto comes across as a politician.
I’d rather have Laudas approach, blunt and to the point.

#127 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:10

Well, maybe we have a physicist here on the Forum and maybe he can tell us more about the concept of drag. Is the drag higher in the acceleration phase or when you have reached your topspeed?

 

Maybe the Ferrari has just better traction? I think it is a bit easy to say that Ferrari's gains are just down to the engine.

 

 

dimg356.gif
 
 

So the resisting force increases to the cube of the velocity, assuming other constants remain the same (they will not e.g. DRS changes Cd during deployment).

 

So less drag helps you to accelerate faster with the same engine power. 

 

This is quite logical: try starting to sprint 100 meters with or without an open parachute attached to you.


Edited by Jvr, 25 July 2018 - 14:12.


#128 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:13

Drag is significantly higher at the terminal phase as it squares with velocity.

The Ferrari is making the gains out of low, middle and high speed corners. Some have traction as a factor and some don't. This is the exact situation you would expect a car with more power and, especially, more torque to be gaining.

No, it cubes.



#129 MikeV1987

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:17

Congratulations Ferrari, you made it.



#130 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:17

No, it cubes.

 

It's definitely squared.



#131 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:19

Interesting tidbit from amus: Apparently a source at Haas shared that if they had [all that Ferrari now has on the engine side], they'd would have qualified ahead of Red Bull.

 

That's interesting in the sense that not only does it again point to how much of a game changer that development is (but then again anyone with half a brain probably figured that out already), but also that Ferrari isn't sharing it with customer teams, which would be against the regulations iirc. 

 

Unsubstantiated so far, but interesting nonetheless to keep an eye on this. Let's see if we get more from the side of the customer teams.


Edited by beachdrifter, 25 July 2018 - 14:22.


#132 Nigol

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:23

Interesting tidbit from amus: Apparently a source at Haas shared that if they had [what Ferrari now has on the engine side], they'd would have qualified ahead of Red Bull.

 

That's interesting in the sense that not only does it again point to how much of a game changer that development is (but then again anyone with half a brain probably figured that out already), but also that Ferrari isn't sharing it with customer teams, which would be against the regulations iirc. 

 

Unsubstantiated so far, but interesting nonetheless to keep an eye on this. Let's see if we get more from the side of the customer teams.

 

They have the same hardware so it all good in this case.



#133 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:24

They have the same hardware so it all good in this case.

 

I thought that had changed this season? I'll see if I can find it...

 

https://www.autospor...gine-inequality


Edited by beachdrifter, 25 July 2018 - 14:26.


#134 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:24

It's definitely squared.

The power needed to terminal velocity adds the cubed element...

 

P = Fd * v

 

And I think the argument was about the power levels of the PU's so it is definitely cubed.

 

http://scienceworld..../DragPower.html


Edited by Jvr, 25 July 2018 - 14:27.


#135 Nigol

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:29

They must be able to be operated in the same way, whatever this means. Maybe they don't have to share all the different ways.   ;)



#136 beachdrifter

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:31

They must be able to be operated in the same way, whatever this means. Maybe they don't have to share all the different ways.   ;)

 

It is very strangely worded. Hard to tell what exactly that means in the real world, but Mercedes made it clear that they are sharing all of the power modes ("party mode") 1:1 with their customers, and those customers have since confirmed that. 



#137 Nigol

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:32

He said drag squares with velocity, no matter what you think the argument was about, he's right...



#138 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:33

The power needed to terminal velocity adds the cubed element...

 

P = Fd * v

 

And I think the argument was about the power levels of the PU's so it is definitely cubed.

 

http://scienceworld..../DragPower.html

 

Where did I mention power? The questioner asked about DRAG and I answered about drag.

If you're going to intervene wrongly in the conversation at least have the grace to admit you are incorrect.



#139 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:36

Where did I mention power? The questioner asked about DRAG and I answered about drag.

If you're going to intervene wrongly in the conversation at least have the grace to admit you are incorrect.

Sigh.

 

If we are debating the power levels of different PU's, their representation e.g. in the video that you shared implies that any observations of acceleration or terminal speed on straights all assume observation of the speed cubed.

 

You are correct, Drag Force is squared, but how drag impacts the power requirements of the PU is cubed to the observed velocity.



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#140 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:38

It’s time for FIA to end this farce and bring in open scrutineering. It’ll be very good for the fans and will undoubtedly lower costs. Fans will actually be able to discuss the cars while having real details and numbers.

No. That is not a good idea.

#141 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 14:47

They have the same hardware so it all good in this case.

 

They have the same homologated power unit, but the teams are allowed to diverge in terms of software, oil and fuel if they so please.

 

If they want the same as the manufacturer, the FIA's technical directive earlier this year means those must be supplied so the power units are 'capable of being operated' in the same way.

 

The supposed claims of Schmidt's unnamed 'source' are thus rather dubious.


Edited by Nonesuch, 25 July 2018 - 14:47.


#142 kernel

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:00

They have the same homologated power unit, but the teams are allowed to diverge in terms of software, oil and fuel if they so please.

 

If they want the same as the manufacturer, the FIA's technical directive earlier this year means those must be supplied so the power units are 'capable of being operated' in the same way.

 

The supposed claims of Schmidt's unnamed 'source' are thus rather dubious.

 

Sure, cause it doesn't fit with your narrative?



#143 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:34

Sure, cause it doesn't fit with your narrative?

 

Claims require proof. For these claims to be true, Ferrari would have to be breaking regulations and/or technical directives.

 

If there is no proof, it's just a story. Or, if you will, 'a narrative'. Or, if you're Toto Wolff, interesting questions James Allison raised.

 

If there is proof of wrongdoing, Ferrari should be disqualified. At the moment, there is none.


Edited by Nonesuch, 25 July 2018 - 15:35.


#144 Nigol

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:42

Claims require proof. For these claims to be true, Ferrari would have to be breaking regulations and/or technical directives.

 

If there is no proof, it's just a story. Or, if you will, 'a narrative'. Or, if you're Toto Wolff, interesting questions James Allison raised.

 

If there is proof of wrongdoing, Ferrari should be disqualified. At the moment, there is none.

 

No one is claiming they are necessarily doing something illegal. But something is happening there, and right now there's no good explanation.



#145 CPR

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:46

Imagine a F1 car with a 1000 hp engine travelling at its top speed. Why does it have a top speed at all? The top speed is where an equilibrium is reached between the power of the engine and the power of the drag and rolling resistance - the force of acceleration is matched by an equally strong force of resistance in the opposition direction. For F1 cars the rolling resistance is going to be relatively small so if you have 1000 hp at the wheels then at top speed the drag is going to be nearly 1000 hp as well.

 

I think where people struggle is that drag is very much non-linear. The closer you get to the top speed the bigger difference it makes. If you want a really simple way to think about it: in a modem F1 car the drag will not make much of a visible difference until the car is in 8th gear.

 

Putting it another way: take the exact same F1 car and run it in the same conditions with a slightly different amount of drag. Let's imagine a start-finish straight where you have a timing beam at the start line and another (say) 500m down the track at the speed trap. Let's say that with the lower drag config the car does 250 kph at the start line and 325 kph at the speed trap and with the higher drag config the car does 320 kph at the speed trap. What speed do you think it'll be doing at the start line? If you said 245 kph you'd be wrong. It'll be more like 249 kph (maybe even closer to 250 kph). In real world conditions the margins of error and the effects of things like wind would actually be a bigger difference.

 

Another common mistake people make is to assume that drag and power are equally important to lap time. This is wrong. For a F1 car, power is much more important - to use my simple model above, cars spend much more time in gears 1-7 than 8th gear. If you compare two cars - one with high power and high drag and one with lower power and lower drag but both with the same top speed, the high power car is going to faster down the straights as it will have a significant advantage in the early part of any straights and by the time both cars reach their top speed the high power car will already be ahead. For cars racing each other with DRS then top speed starts to become more of a weapon as a higher top speed makes it easier to defend and easier to overtake.

 

So with that background out of the way, what do I think Ferrari are doing?

 

I have no idea but if they're doing something special in the early part of acceleration zones then perhaps they're doing something like this: I believe its legal for each gear to have a different engine mapping (something that's often done in sports cars). So perhaps Ferrari are using more aggressive settings at lower gears than higher gears. After all, if you're accelerating in (say) 4th gear then you won't be in that gear for long so a quick burst of extra power will be useful and also over quickly so it won't put much strain on the engine. Since that would likely be just after a corner the engine would probably be a bit cooler as well. A gear specific "party mode", as it were.



#146 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:50

Lol finally they get challenged on the PU front and they can’t seem to fathom that a different group of engineers can do better than them. Mercedes High Performance Powertrains haven’t had to contend with that during this entire hybrid era, time for them to respond on track and not in the media.

#147 CountDooku

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 16:03

Imagine a F1 car with a 1000 hp engine travelling at its top speed. Why does it have a top speed at all? The top speed is where an equilibrium is reached between the power of the engine and the power of the drag and rolling resistance - the force of acceleration is matched by an equally strong force of resistance in the opposition direction. For F1 cars the rolling resistance is going to be relatively small so if you have 1000 hp at the wheels then at top speed the drag is going to be nearly 1000 hp as well.

 

I think where people struggle is that drag is very much non-linear. The closer you get to the top speed the bigger difference it makes. If you want a really simple way to think about it: in a modem F1 car the drag will not make much of a visible difference until the car is in 8th gear.

 

Putting it another way: take the exact same F1 car and run it in the same conditions with a slightly different amount of drag. Let's imagine a start-finish straight where you have a timing beam at the start line and another (say) 500m down the track at the speed trap. Let's say that with the lower drag config the car does 250 kph at the start line and 325 kph at the speed trap and with the higher drag config the car does 320 kph at the speed trap. What speed do you think it'll be doing at the start line? If you said 245 kph you'd be wrong. It'll be more like 249 kph (maybe even closer to 250 kph). In real world conditions the margins of error and the effects of things like wind would actually be a bigger difference.

 

Another common mistake people make is to assume that drag and power are equally important to lap time. This is wrong. For a F1 car, power is much more important - to use my simple model above, cars spend much more time in gears 1-7 than 8th gear. If you compare two cars - one with high power and high drag and one with lower power and lower drag but both with the same top speed, the high power car is going to faster down the straights as it will have a significant advantage in the early part of any straights and by the time both cars reach their top speed the high power car will already be ahead. For cars racing each other with DRS then top speed starts to become more of a weapon as a higher top speed makes it easier to defend and easier to overtake.

 

So with that background out of the way, what do I think Ferrari are doing?

 

I have no idea but if they're doing something special in the early part of acceleration zones then perhaps they're doing something like this: I believe its legal for each gear to have a different engine mapping (something that's often done in sports cars). So perhaps Ferrari are using more aggressive settings at lower gears than higher gears. After all, if you're accelerating in (say) 4th gear then you won't be in that gear for long so a quick burst of extra power will be useful and also over quickly so it won't put much strain on the engine. Since that would likely be just after a corner the engine would probably be a bit cooler as well. A gear specific "party mode", as it were.

 

Exactly! Very well said, it's what I was trying to explain.

 

Don't agree with your conclusion in the end though. IIRC they have fixed ratios all season which would prevent something like this from happening. I think they are somehow being much more aggressive in their deployment over a Q lap in the early part of straights and are somehow able to be at peak power for longer as a % of total laptime.



#148 w1Y

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 16:26

Yeah i assume ferrari are getting to higher speeds quicker.

#149 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 16:57


dimg356.gif

http://scienceworld..../DragPower.html

So the resisting force increases to the cube of the velocity, assuming other constants remain the same (they will not e.g. DRS changes Cd during deployment).

So less drag helps you to accelerate faster with the same engine power.

This is quite logical: try starting to sprint 100 meters with or without an open parachute attached to you.


The resisting force is the drag and that squares with velocity.

The power required to overcome the drag cubes with velocity.

Don’t get those mixed up.

#150 Jvr

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 17:12

The resisting force is the drag and that squares with velocity.

The power required to overcome the drag cubes with velocity.

Don’t get those mixed up.

I intended to say like that, the force squares but the power needed to overcome that cubes. Apologies for any confusion.

 

Remember, it was discussion about the power of the PU's, not? That is fighting against the power of the drag and other friction.

 

Furthermore, it gets a bit more complicated function to calculate how the acceleration reduces out of the corner depending on 1. PU power 2. Drag force if both are variables as they for sure are in the case of comparing Merc and Ferrari.

 

But I believe you know this.


Edited by Jvr, 25 July 2018 - 17:22.