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#101 kayemod

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 23:27

Ahem - "nit picking"...

 

DCN

I think there's a Bateman cartoon somewhere in this, "The man who..."



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#102 Catalina Park

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 08:03

Are you sure it isn't "knit picking"?

#103 2F-001

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:58

Yes.



#104 Stephen W

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:27

Knit unpicking would be correct! :wave:



#105 Doug Nye

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 18:34

"Just a little prick with a needle"... ?

 

DCN



#106 BRG

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 19:34

In today's Torygraph, there is an obituary for a lady called Beth Rogan.  In it is a reference to 'Colonel Ronnie Hoare, a Ferrari dealer known as the “Spanking Colonel”.'

 

Now I am not very au fait with the history of Col Hoare, other than his Ferrari and Maranello Concessionaires connection, but I have never heard him called a Spanking Colonel.  In fact, I recall that there was a law case involving a Col Brooks who was dubbed the Spanking Colonel back in 1974.  

 

So is this an unfortunate slur on the good Col Hoare?


Edited by BRG, 12 December 2015 - 19:35.


#107 P.Dron

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 22:40

That is indeed puzzling. I met the colonel on a couple of occasions. I think there must be some confusion, but who knows what people get up to in their leisure hours? I was once interviewing Sean Bealey, who was by then running Maranello Concessionaires, when Ronnie Hoare came in to say hello. He was by then suffering badly from the twitches, but still compos mentis, though his spanking days, if there had been any, were by then only memories.  

 

I was accompanied by a photographer who took the opportunity to take some snaps of the Colonel. This snapper was not renowned for subtlety. He said, "Can you keep still for a moment, please?" Sean Bealey had to turn away, pretending to have a coughing fit.



#108 PZR

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:58

Octane Magazine have surpassed themselves again. Hot on the heels of 'Aesthete' Stephen Bayley's mistake-ridden Halberstam-lite article 'Zen and the art of the Z' in the December 2015 issue, Tony Dron has come up with a good old clanger.

Dron - like Bayley - has a monthly column in Octane called 'Passed it!' (wait for it...). In the February 2016 issue - already on the shelves - he dedicates his column to an experience he says he had with a 240Z in November 1971. Not any old 240Z, this one. It was apparently none other that "the UK's first road test 240Z"...

Mr Dron goes on to mention that the 240Z's external dimensions, wheelbase and front track "followed" those of the Porsche 911. Fair enough you might think, but he follows this up with; "That was a deliberate part of the 240Z's 2+2 design...".

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never noticed any more than two seats in a 240Z. If there are more, could somebody tell me where...?

It's not just a typo. Dron then goes into Len Deighton mode, recounting a story (I won't spoil it for you) of being flagged down in Kensington High Street by what appeared to be two KGB agents, and forced to take them to a cinema in London's West End. He had one in the front, and one "in the back"...

The one "in the back" in a suitcase, perhaps?

 

 

 

Nissan introduced the GS30 Fairlady Z '2/2' and GRS30/GRLS30 Datsun 260Z 2+2 models in December 1973, and none were seen in the UK until early in 1974. There was no '240Z' 2+2 model.

 



#109 Tim Murray

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:39

The good old BBC's at it again. From this item, on yet another threat to the long term future of the British Grand Prix, comes this:
 

Silverstone first hosted he British Grand Prix in 1950 ...



#110 Michael Ferner

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:39

Well, EVERYBODY knows that motor racing was invented May 13, 1950, don't they?

#111 Tim Murray

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 07:18

Just stumbled across this site, which gave me a good laugh:

History of F1 – 1900s to 1940s

#112 D-Type

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 19:21

Well as a 1-pager directed at, shall we say, non-TNF people, it isn't too bad.  A little bit of confusion here and there: Scuderia Ferrari Alfa Romeo and Ferrari, and Audi and Auto-Union, which is an interesting one, and overlooking the German and Italian GPs while mentioning the Monaco and Belgian races.  As you say, a good laugh rather than a hot-under-the-collar.



#113 Charlieman

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 20:29

Well as a 1-pager directed at, shall we say, non-TNF people, it isn't too bad.  A little bit of confusion here and there: Scuderia Ferrari Alfa Romeo and Ferrari, and Audi and Auto-Union, which is an interesting one, and overlooking the German and Italian GPs while mentioning the Monaco and Belgian races.  As you say, a good laugh rather than a hot-under-the-collar.

The Audi to Auto-Union connection bothers me. The factories of pre-war Auto-Union were in the east of Germany which post-occupation and more kerfuffle became East Germany. Auto-Union, the company, was abolished in Germany in 1948.

 

A company making DKW-engineered cars (branded IFA) was established in 1948 in East Germany. They made DKW/IFAs for years.

 

Auto-Union staff set up a new company in the west of Germany in September 1949 building -- what do you expect -- DKW-engineered cars.

 

There's a time gap between the companies. Audi ain't Auto-Union.



#114 D-Type

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 22:05

The Audi to Auto-Union connection bothers me. The factories of pre-war Auto-Union were in the east of Germany which post-occupation and more kerfuffle became East Germany. Auto-Union, the company, was abolished in Germany in 1948.

 

A company making DKW-engineered cars (branded IFA) was established in 1948 in East Germany. They made DKW/IFAs for years.

 

Auto-Union staff set up a new company in the west of Germany in September 1949 building -- what do you expect -- DKW-engineered cars.

 

There's a time gap between the companies. Audi ain't Auto-Union.

There's more to it than that.  
The new West German DKW company branded one of their models as an Auto Union to stake a claim to that name.
Then Mercedes, who by then had a majority holding in DKW / Auto Union got together with VW to set up a company to make cars in the gap between their respective ranges and compete with Opel and Ford for the "rep" and "family car" sector, or if you prefer for the man who wanted to move up market from a VW Beetle but couldn't afford a Mercedes.  They called this new company Audi, reviving the prewar name.

As time went on, Mercedes reduced their holding and VW and Audi merged.  At some stage Audi adopted Auto Union history as theirs.

And that's the simplified version.



#115 Michael Ferner

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 22:12

Even simpler: Audi was one of the four companies that merged into Auto Union.



#116 Roger Clark

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 22:42

Well as a 1-pager directed at, shall we say, non-TNF people, it isn't too bad. A little bit of confusion here and there: Scuderia Ferrari Alfa Romeo and Ferrari, and Audi and Auto-Union, which is an interesting one, and overlooking the German and Italian GPs while mentioning the Monaco and Belgian races. As you say, a good laugh rather than a hot-under-the-collar.

I think it is far too bad. There's barely a statement in it that is correct.

#117 Charlieman

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 22:42

Even simpler: Audi was one of the four companies that merged into Auto Union.

Which, as Audi, a part of pre-WW2 Auto-Union, dissolved in 1948. A company with the same name was re-innvented later in the west by folks who repaired old motors.

 

The East German owners of IFA had a good claim on the Auto-Union name. Perhaps that is why Volkswagen Audi bought them out.



#118 Allan Lupton

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 08:43

For some reason VW Audi uses the four rings badge which the youth of today therefore thinks is the Audi logo - and then concludes that Bernd Rosemeyer drove an Audi!

 

Then there is the complex history of the companies that became BMW - they don't seem too proud of the original Wartburg or they would have had a centenary in 1998!



#119 kayemod

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 09:53



For some reason VW Audi uses the four rings badge which the youth of today therefore thinks is the Audi logo - and then concludes that Bernd Rosemeyer drove an Audi!

 

Then there is the complex history of the companies that became BMW - they don't seem too proud of the original Wartburg or they would have had a centenary in 1998!

 

Yes, and the youth of today have some excuse for that erroneous belief, this is something I snipped from no lesser place than The Times a couple of years or so ago.

 

1e938067-2f42-4267-baa8-33070d0b9390.jpg

 

However, although the youth of today almost certainly know what an Audi is, many will doubtless aspire to own one, I think you'd have to search very long and very hard to find one who knew that Bernd Rosemeyer was one of the greatest racing drivers of all time, or one with whom the name even registered.

 

"Didn't Effwun start with Michael Schumacher?"



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#120 2F-001

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 10:44

Notwithstanding the wrongly-named marque, by whose measure is that car worth a small fortune? (!)

#121 RogerFrench

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:32

Notwithstanding the wrongly-named marque, by whose measure is that car worth a small fortune? (!)

By the measure of my bank account for one!
But going back to the one-page summsry, it really is rubbish. It would not have been too difficult to write it accurately, and there will be people who believe it.

Edited by RogerFrench, 29 March 2017 - 12:37.


#122 kayemod

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:40

Notwithstanding the wrongly-named marque, by whose measure is that car worth a small fortune? (!)

 

Maybe the writer looked up the value under "Audi" on some "what is your car worth" site, couldn't find anything rear-engined, and just made a guess.



#123 D-Type

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:41

Notwithstanding the wrongly-named marque, by whose measure is that car worth a small fortune? (!)

I take it you are questioning the "small"



#124 2F-001

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:59

Indeed, Duncan, I am.

#125 Michael Ferner

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 13:51

Which, as Audi, a part of pre-WW2 Auto-Union, dissolved in 1948. A company with the same name was re-innvented later in the west by folks who repaired old motors.
 
The East German owners of IFA had a good claim on the Auto-Union name. Perhaps that is why Volkswagen Audi bought them out.


Oh, come on! Did you also complain when McLaren commemorated its 50th?

#126 Charlieman

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 14:39

Oh, come on! Did you also complain when McLaren commemorated its 50th?

Actually, I did. And according to company records, the team set up by Bruce McLaren has ceased trading. The McLaren/MP4 outfit created by Ron D and Bruce's heirs is legally a separate company. It's probably why Formula One Management regards McLaren as a younger team than Williams Grand Prix Engineering -- which has cost McLaren a lot of money over the years.

 

I think that Ron's Project 3 and earlier enterprises have been under represented in popular representation of the current McLaren organisations. One of the Brabhams rented to Ron (by the other famous Ron) on generous terms deserves a place alongside the Can Am and Senna cars.

 

Am I guilty of exaggerating my argument about the link between Audi and Auto Union? Undoubtedly, yes. But without a bit of hyperbole, it's difficult to explain the break. In 1938 Auto Union GP cars were made in the area which became part of East Germany; the people who moved west to set up a new firm "owned" the heritage of pre-WW2 Auto Union equally with those who made Trabants.



#127 BRG

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 16:41

The car had Kirsty Gallacher standing next to it.   :love: 

 

Who cares about what the car is?



#128 Charlieman

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 17:07

The car had Kirsty Gallacher standing next to it.   :love:

 

Who cares about what the car is?

What we know, at this moment, is that the Auto Unions are (mostly) lost and the drawings to create a replica are lost too.

 

The car on which a model rests her hand is (most likely) a replica. It is most likely a replica because there aren't many or any (bits of) real Auto Unions. And the replica was built on the basis of old photos.

 

As a replica, its value is dependent on its construction cost of a replica.



#129 Tim Murray

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 17:37

As I understand it this car isn't a complete replica, being one of the two genuine cars unearthed in the former Soviet Union by the Karassiks, but then subjected to a major restoration by Crosthwaite and Gardiner.

#130 Henk Vasmel

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 19:31

You have to understand the chaos after the war in the country where they lost that war. Communication was (made) extremely difficult and people were mostly just trying to survive, by continuing what they knew best. So in the west, a part (depot?) of the old Auto Union company was restarted as Auto Union. the cars they started to build are DKW's from pre-war designs, most of all a 1940 prototype. This company sort of thrived but not enough, so in the end they ended up, at first between Volkswagen and Daimler-Benz, then exclusively at Volkswagen. There they were merged with NSU into what is now known as Audi. 

The four rings (DKW, Wanderer, Audi, Horch) have always been present on those cars. There never was a DKW company after the war, only Auto Union, selling cars  as DKW and Auto Union.

This eventually led to the DKW F102, the last two-stroke Auto Union car. Daimler-Benz had a mitteldruck motor lying around that was surplus to requirements and DKW needed an upgrade, so a new car was born. It was given the brand name Audi, to hide the connection with the two-stroke cars. But it was still an Auto Union at first. When I had an Audi 80 from 1972, on the car papers the brand was still listed as Auto Union.

So to state that there is no connection between current day Audi and Auto Union is stretching it a bit. The only break in the continuous history is WWII.

For  more details on this rather complicated business, I would like to refer you to Dr. Peter Kirchberg, who has written many very well documented books on the subject, though they are probably available only in German.



#131 Tim Murray

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:00

34faf4410fec8b9ddd2df6ae9f0cc070.jpg

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#132 2F-001

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:07

Surely that was Jack Brabham, wasn't it? Aside from the other mistakes, that is...

#133 Porsche718

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:20

2F - then the "Stop Press: may read - 

 

Jack Brabham from

New Zealand, driving a

Bugatti, won the first

Formula One Grand

Prix held at Le Mans

in 1967.


Edited by Porsche718, 27 October 2017 - 07:20.


#134 Tim Murray

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:37

... a BT35, possibly, or perhaps a BT51?

#135 BRG

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 18:38

Not sure if it was unwittingly lifted from a Silverstone Classic press release, although they ought to know better, but in the latest Motor Sport (p.27) it says "In 2018, grids from the Historic Grand Prix Cars Association and FIA Masters Historic Formula 1 will trace the F1 story from the 1930s to the 1980s"



#136 D28

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 19:05

http://driving.ca/fe...or-us38-million

 

A case of buyer beware here, the NART 250 LM might just have claim to that billing. The main story adds the necessary qualifiers, and the bidders will no doubt be aware, but still pretty shocking coming from a usually reputable column. Could be a case of headline writers not involved in the actual story.


Edited by D28, 02 November 2017 - 19:06.


#137 kayemod

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 23:03

http://driving.ca/fe...or-us38-million

 

A case of buyer beware here, the NART 250 LM might just have claim to that billing. The main story adds the necessary qualifiers, and the bidders will no doubt be aware, but still pretty shocking coming from a usually reputable column. Could be a case of headline writers not involved in the actual story.

 

Not sure what's wrong with that, in the text it says "... the last 'works' Ferrari to win Le Mans", and the car comes from Pierre Bardinon, surely an impeccable source. Surely everyone knows that the Rindt/Gregory winner was a NART entry, ostensibly a customer car, though probably with some factory assistance, and not not from Ferrari themselves?



#138 D28

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 00:31

It's the headline and picture which got my attention.

Final Ferrari to win Le Mans...

 

Casual readers who only see the headline are being mislead and it matters not a whit that the 65 winner was a customer car.



#139 kayemod

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 09:05

It's the headline and picture which got my attention.

Final Ferrari to win Le Mans...

 

Casual readers who only see the headline are being mislead and it matters not a whit that the 65 winner was a customer car.

 

I can't see a "casual reader" ever considering a possibly $38 million purchase though, can you?



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#140 Charlieman

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 12:31

A personal bugbear is the use of line graphs to illustrate data about discrete events and results. You use a line graph to look at a continuum or time series data -- daily rainfall or manufacturing output.

 

Here the BBC use a line graph to connect race finishing positions at successive races. As far as I can recall, no driver finishes in four and a halfth place at a non-existent race.

http://ichef.bbci.co...leracesofar.png

 

MS magazine reckons that qualifying time differences between team mates can be illustrated on a line graph. Why not draw a line between the first and last GPs?

https://msmproductio...tas_in_2017.jpg

 

I can understand that story editors want a nice illustration to go with the words, but use the right sort of chart, please. The BBC example would be much more readable if it had been a plus/minus  points difference bar graph.



#141 D28

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 13:54

I can't see a "casual reader" ever considering a possibly $38 million purchase though, can you?

No. Perhaps I was unclear in my post. National Post is a conventional newspaper in Toronto which I read on line for political and general news. they also have a Driving Section which covers general automotive news, Scrolling down the stories, I came to the headline and picture and quickly determined it wasn't the expected 250 LM. General readers may never get beyond the headline, I don't for many articles. That's all I was pointing out; the headline doesn't really jive with the article, nothing more.



#142 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 15:35

It's the headline and picture which got my attention.

Final Ferrari to win Le Mans...

 

Casual readers who only see the headline are being mislead and it matters not a whit that the 65 winner was a customer car.

Isn't that the 458 Italia GT2 of SMP racing....



#143 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 12:02

BBC at it again. It says here that Daniel Ricciardo is aiming to become the first Australian to win his home Grand Prix. :rotfl:

#144 Michael Ferner

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 14:46

WOW! :eek: They finally invented The Time Machine ®! :eek: :eek:

#145 D28

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 21:01

I can see where BBC might have  sourced their statistics, from various net bases, see here:

 

https://uk.reuters.c...x-idUKKBN1GX12A

 

http://www.compuserv...25ZC_2045659103



#146 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 17:01

C&SC has a "pedants" feature wherein they print letters from readers pointing out errors in previous issues. There are always plenty. Even I, with my relative lack of knowledge of motoring and motorsports history, have pointed out half a dozen errors......in de Cadenet's "heroes" back-page column alone. I think they've stopped opening my emails. :wave:

I'm not blaming Alain, but doesn't anyone proofread or fact check any more?

#147 nicanary

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 09:23

C&SC has a "pedants" feature wherein they print letters from readers pointing out errors in previous issues. There are always plenty. Even I, with my relative lack of knowledge of motoring and motorsports history, have pointed out half a dozen errors......in de Cadenet's "heroes" back-page column alone. I think they've stopped opening my emails. :wave:

I'm not blaming Alain, but doesn't anyone proofread or fact check any more?

I've just dropped a line to that august publication - in the June issue there is an article on the Alfa Romeo 1900 and a sidebar mentions sporting versions, including the Disco Volante. It's accompanied by a photo of John Riseley-Pritchard's Cooper-Connaught!



#148 7MGTEsup

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:27

BBC at it again. It says here that Daniel Ricciardo is aiming to become the first Australian to win his home Grand Prix. :rotfl:

 

I must be completely ignorant because I can't see a year from 1985 till present where an Australian has won?



#149 RTH

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:35

Been run 86 times with 32 Australian winners

 

https://en.wikipedia...lian_Grand_Prix  



#150 john winfield

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:57

I must be completely ignorant because I can't see a year from 1985 till present where an Australian has won?

 

I'm sure the BBC sub-editor was just baiting TNF regulars by omitting 'since it became part of the World Championship', or something similar. I feel uneasy using the term F1, because someone will mention F2, Ascari and the early fifties. And I won't risk 1950 as I'm pretty sure everything began in 1981. It's a minefield.