72 replies to this topic

[Ben1445]

I’ve seen all too many comments along the lines of ‘No one watches Formula E’, ‘They give away most of their race day tickets’, ‘the TV ratings just aren’t there’ or “Fans have pretty much already rejected the Formula E product”. The latter of which may or may not be a direct quote from a  well followed motorsport vlogger (or whatever they’re called). 

 

And then these season 4 numbers came out: 

https://www.forbes.c...s/#6393cf39753f

 

Some key figures: 

• average of 27.1 million viewers globally per race (was 18.6m last season) 
• Two races in mid-June averaged 412,000 viewers in the USA (IndyCar averages 458,000 - ) 
• 347% growth in 13-17 year old fans engaging with online content 
• On FE’s Facebook page, 49% of total engagement in the age groups of 13-17 and 18-24 
• Total social media following up 55%
• 1.46 million watched the Berlin ePrix in Germany when it was broadcast on ZDF 
• Most watched race was Rome, wit 34.2 million viewers 
• Overall video views on all FE platforms combines to 318 million views - up 675%. 

 

Honestly, have a good read of the article. 

 

So. Is this decent growth? Is that what people expected? Not bad for a 4 year old series? Formula E’s long stated target of going after the younger demographic working? 

 

Discuss.

Edited by Ben1445, 01 August 2018 - 22:48.

[maximilian]

One thing they went horribly wrong with is geo-blocking their live web streams of Qualy and Race, which is against everything they supposedly stood for in terms of connectivity and fan exposure.  Just stream the damn races online for free already - everywhere. 

[RacingGreen]

Any new series should be happy with what they have achieved and it's great to see that growth coming largely in younger demographics. Hopefully with the new cars (and being able to go a full race distance without the silly car swaps) the series will continue to grow.

 

I'm not sure the mix between privateers and full works entries is heading in the right direction as costs are likely to escalate. The real test will come when manufacturers start realising they can't all win and some of them start pulling out. It will be interesting to see what that does to the viewing figures.

[tokengator82]

I do not like the series. Slow and boring to me. And changing cars halfway thru the race is, i dont know what to say-- awkward i guess

...but i have to admit that those numbers are surprising and impressive

[Vielleicht]

Those are impressive.

 

I think they can be pretty damn happy with that after only 4 years, and it's really encouraging to see that the plan to go after a younger audience seems to be working.

[Ben1445]

I'm not sure the mix between privateers and full works entries is heading in the right direction as costs are likely to escalate. The real test will come when manufacturers start realising they can't all win and some of them start pulling out. It will be interesting to see what that does to the viewing figures.

I'm hoping that the combination of common chassis/battery and the preemptive counter measure for manufacturer pull outs of mandating that the manufacturers sell a powertrain to privateers for a capped price if asked will help them on this front. They've said the intention of the rule is to protect competitive privateer involvement in the case of a manufacturer exodus. But yeah, wether the knock on loss of manufacturers affects viewing figures if/when it happens will be an interesting thing to keep an eye on. 

Edited by Ben1445, 02 August 2018 - 07:25.

[thegamer23]

I do not like the series. Slow and boring to me. And changing cars halfway thru the race is, i dont know what to say-- awkward i guess

...but i have to admit that those numbers are surprising and impressive

Well, next season no more car swaps & faster cars!

Edited by thegamer23, 02 August 2018 - 07:21.

[Ali_G]

As usual I’m left mystified by spec series.

The first car they had was horrible looking. Just revolting. This is a spec series. Just have a good looking car for **** sake. Good looking cars are the easiest way to support a spec series.

Of course, who design the car. No other than Dallara who have a history of producing the ugliest cars in motor racing history.

Then they did the 2019 concept and it was quite a looker. It wouldn’t have cost extra to build and who cares if it was the most efficient design. And then they shelve it and come up with a watered down design as the actual car. Oh my lord.

[Vielleicht]

One thing they went horribly wrong with is geo-blocking their live web streams of Qualy and Race, which is against everything they supposedly stood for in terms of connectivity and fan exposure.  Just stream the damn races online for free already - everywhere. 

I do wonder how many more viewers they would get if it was universally streamed for free. I also wonder how much different the revenue would have been. I don't know. It certainly would be nicer from a fan point of view to just stream the whole lot via YouTube and be done with it.

 

Their future broadcasting strategy is a little murky, but it sounds to me like they're trying to balance traditional platforms with new and innovative ones. I strongly suspect the future of sports broadcasting will be on Netflix or Prime style platforms - but we don't seem to be there yet, so FE is using a mixture of traditional FTA, streaming and TV deals of various kinds in different countries until that future arrives. So I think it's 'do what you can until the time is right' situation.

[PiperPa42]

Great to see there Numbers, do you know how they compare with WEC/Le Mans?

I don’t agree that geoblocking the free stream is bad for the series, but there needs to be an affordable option. The only Way I could watch season two legally in Denmark was as part of a USD 40 tv package.
I can’t see why they don’t offer a streaming service like WEC and now F1.

[ArrowsLivery]

Those numbers seem pretty bogus to me. How can they claim to know the age of their viewers?

There is also not much correlation with numbers from sources that we can actually see, like youtube. Their videos there are getting views in the 5 digit range at best.

Edited by ArrowsLivery, 02 August 2018 - 17:32.

[Gemini]

 

• 347% growth in 13-17 year old fans engaging with online content 

 

Cool. That's exactly the consumer age group that spends money on cars, right?

Edited by Gemini, 02 August 2018 - 17:56.

[Ben1445]

Those numbers seem pretty bogus to me. How can they claim to know the age of their viewers?

There is also not much correlation with numbers from sources that we can actually see, like youtube. Their videos there are getting views in the 5 digit range at best.

I would suggest that perhaps reading article in a little more detail might answer some of your questions here....

[Ben1445]

Cool. That's exactly the consumer age group that spends money on cars, right?

They're a consumers age group most of whom, when polled, want their first car to be electric (apparently).

[Pete_f1]

I hope the new sports car like car and lack of pit stops don't kill it

[August]

Great to see there Numbers, do you know how they compare with WEC/Le Mans?

I don’t agree that geoblocking the free stream is bad for the series, but there needs to be an affordable option. The only Way I could watch season two legally in Denmark was as part of a USD 40 tv package.
I can’t see why they don’t offer a streaming service like WEC and now F1.

 

Here are some numbers from Le Mans 2017, down from 2013. Note, those are Eurosport and the French broadcaster so the overseas viewers aren't included.

 

As for no streaming service, you have to remember Discovery is a shareholder in FE. TV corporations tend to be protective of the traditional linear TV model.

 

Some key figures: 

• Two races in mid-June averaged 412,000 viewers in the USA (IndyCar averages 458,000 - ) 

 

That must be the average for IndyCar on cable. 412k is the number for the N.Y. Saturday race on Fox (free-to-air) in mid-July, the Sunday race was on FS1 (cable) and had surely less than 300k viewers as it's not listed in Sportsmediawatch. (More likely ~100k if even that based on some former figures.) For comparison, IndyCar (and F1) get ~1m viewers on FTA channels. (The 500 of course gets way more, +4m.)

[Vielleicht]

That must be the average for IndyCar on cable. 412k is the number for the N.Y. Saturday race on Fox (free-to-air) in mid-July, the Sunday race was on FS1 (cable) and had surely less than 300k viewers as it's not listed in Sportsmediawatch. (More likely ~100k if even that based on some former figures.) For comparison, IndyCar (and F1) get ~1m viewers on FTA channels. (The 500 of course gets way more, +4m.)

I was going to say that less than 500,000 US IndyCar viewers did seem unreasonably low ...

[E1pix]

Those numbers seem pretty bogus to me. How can they claim to know the age of their viewers?
There is also not much correlation with numbers from sources that we can actually see, like youtube. Their videos there are getting views in the 5 digit range at best.

Every single professional racing series analyzes their market base, so sponsors and ad buyers know the marketplace. It's called demographics, earned by thousands of interviews and fan analysis.

In fact, it's the only basis for any potential investor to make decisions on, it is anything but "bogus," and racing would quickly die without this information.

[maximilian]

I do wonder how many more viewers they would get if it was universally streamed for free. I also wonder how much different the revenue would have been. I don't know. It certainly would be nicer from a fan point of view to just stream the whole lot via YouTube and be done with it.

 

Their future broadcasting strategy is a little murky, but it sounds to me like they're trying to balance traditional platforms with new and innovative ones. I strongly suspect the future of sports broadcasting will be on Netflix or Prime style platforms - but we don't seem to be there yet, so FE is using a mixture of traditional FTA, streaming and TV deals of various kinds in different countries until that future arrives. So I think it's 'do what you can until the time is right' situation.

 

I just can't imagine that it would "hurt" anything to do it... as it is, they have ad boards plastered all over the place, and those sponsors surely wouldn't mind a couple extra thousand people watching online... who otherwise may not have watched.  I don't get the US coverage, because I can't be bothered to pay for "cable tv" anymore... so I just wouldn't be able to watch the races at all.

 

At the VERY LEAST, give us the option to pay a couple of bucks to watch a stream.  Can't be that hard.  Still think it should be free, though... not just in select countries.  Chrome VPN plugin sure comes in handy, so it's a futile exercise on their part, anyways.  The naivity!  

Edited by maximilian, 03 August 2018 - 02:01.

[Valvert]

Every single professional racing series analyzes their market base, so sponsors and ad buyers know the marketplace. It's called demographics, earned by thousands of interviews and fan analysis.

In fact, it's the only basis for any potential investor to make decisions on, it is anything but "bogus," and racing would quickly die without this information.

 

 

That reminds of that time Bernie did market research and found that 24 billion people watched Formula 1.

[E1pix]

Not everyone in racing lies.

[RacingGreen]

Not everyone in racing lies.

 

but almost everyone in advertising does - or rather selectively finds possible statistics through their analysis that may demonstrate one thing that their clients are paying them to find out about and ignores those other pieces of research that don't.

[PiperPa42]

If everyone lies, then we can still compare the numbers.

Edited by PiperPa42, 03 August 2018 - 08:02.

[E1pix]

Edit: Replying to RacingGreen here...

I've worked with at least a hundred advertising clients over 40-some years and would not for a minute say they're mostly liars.

Creative use of preferential facts? Sure, but my point was in reply to a comment that marketers can't or don't know the age of their fans, which is simply not true. Every company has different target ages of their potential customers, it doesn't serve anyone's marketing to claim the preferred segment of a sport is made up of 18-34 year olds when in reality it might be 35-51.

All the age demographics do is state approximate ages of fans that may or may not fit a company's target market. To wit, Brittany Spears' fans are not 50+ and nobody paying attention falls for anything so obvious anyway. ;-)

Edited by E1pix, 03 August 2018 - 06:47.

[Muppetmad]

I think the point is that, if you're one of those people who has claimed up to now that ‘No one watches Formula E’, ‘They give away most of their race day tickets’, ‘the TV ratings just aren’t there’ or 'Fans have pretty much already rejected the Formula E product' and you wish to maintain such positions, it's now incumbent on you to explain why these statistics don't disprove your claims.

[RacingGreen]

Edit: Replying to RacingGreen here...

I've worked with at least a hundred advertising clients over 40-some years and would not for a minute say they're mostly liars.

Creative use of preferential facts? Sure, but my point was in reply to a comment that marketers can't or don't know the age of their fans, which is simply not true. Every company has different target ages of their potential customers, it doesn't serve anyone's marketing to claim the preferred segment of a sport is made up of 18-34 year olds when in reality it might be 35-51.

All the age demographics do is state approximate ages of fans that may or may not fit a company's target market. To wit, Brittany Spears' fans are not 50+ and nobody paying attention falls for anything so obvious anyway. ;-)

 

Well done working in marketing for so long - I left after a couple of years and went back into engineering because I didn't really like most of the people. (I also had a brief spell in publishing - don't get me started on ways to inflate magazine readership figures to support your rate card.) My late brother also worked in market research for a couple of years and left when his conscience got the better of him after being asked to mislead clients and went and did something more useful with his skill set. 

 

I do however agree with your comments about demographics as that was an area I felt we had a pretty good and honest handle. 

[E1pix]

Maybe our difference is I've been self-employed the entire time, and never failed to leave the wankers behind.

 

And Yes, they're out there. 

 

 

Plus I've practiced in a lot of other fields between marketing stuff, in attempts to see things half-full… which I fail at about half the time. 

[Vielleicht]

https://e-racing365....e-media-growth/

 

Agag's (medium predictable) comments on the growth figures.

 

“Our priority is to target the younger demographic and we are succeeding in this,” said Agag. “The younger fans, so between 13 and 24, is the bracket which has seen more growth in digital and is really working very well.

“We can see also that there are many kids attending our events and that they get really get excited with Formula E, so it is almost a generational thing.”

[starmonkeylg]

This year's Channel 5 coverage has been very inconsistent. Many races not covered live, many only viewable in crappy standard definition. Needs to improve!

[jonpollak]

I hear Channel4 may be bidding on it next year.

[cheekybru]

I watched quite a few fe races a couple years ago, but then gave up as every track they went to was a boring street circuit and no one could overtake , is this any better yet?

Great numbers anyway so I'm obviously in a minority

[Vielleicht]

I watched quite a few fe races a couple years ago, but then gave up as every track they went to was a boring street circuit and no one could overtake , is this any better yet?

Judge for yourself!

[JHSingo]

Racing series (and indeed, most sports) tend to vastly inflate their viewing figures. I remember years ago, the BTCC made some ludicrous claim about it having hundreds of millions of viewers globally, due to the number of channels it was available on or some such leap of logic. 

 

I'll take these figures with a pinch of salt. 

[Goron3]

Racing series (and indeed, most sports) tend to vastly inflate their viewing figures. I remember years ago, the BTCC made some ludicrous claim about it having hundreds of millions of viewers globally, due to the number of channels it was available on or some such leap of logic. 

 

I'll take these figures with a pinch of salt. 

Indeed. These figures tend to represent 'potential' viewers, not actual. Suggesting Formula E is getting half the viewers of Formula 1 is hilariously misguided.

[F1matt]

Very impressive figures for such a young series, Agag and his team are doing everything right, aiming for a younger audience, taking the races to the people, providing entertainment, keeping the races under an hour and getting the event done in a day. Looks like it is starting to pay dividends with an influx of sponsors and major manufacturers, and a field of paid drivers.


Meanwhile people will be trawling to Spa for a 3 day event, paying a fortune to stay in a tent, robbed every time they buy some chips with mayonnaise, little track action and a race that last just under 2 hours that will be settled on the first lap, or if we are really unlucky on Saturday afternoon.

[Vielleicht]

Indeed. These figures tend to represent 'potential' viewers, not actual. Suggesting Formula E is getting half the viewers of Formula 1 is hilariously misguided.

Where did you get half from?

[7MGTEsup]

Where did you get half from?

 

• Most watched race was Rome, wit 34.2 million viewers 

What does an average grand prix pull in?

[Vielleicht]

• Most watched race was Rome, wit 34.2 million viewers

What does an average grand prix pull in?</p>

No idea. I’ve never been able to find comparable figures?

[jonpollak]

I only watch to hear Bob, Dario and that pants on fire guy Nichols.

[r4mses]

Judge for yourself!

 

wtf? half of those "overtakes" are done by forcing the other driver off the line (due to missing the braking point by miles) or even crashing into them. it's like driving dumper cars

[RPM40]

I like the concept, but they need to be on traditional race tracks. If they can get faster cars + actual racing circuits I see it becoming far more popular.

[RedBaron]

Even if the demographic doesn't buy cars, use banking or buy expensive watches now, they will do at some point.

Formula E isn't targeting Formula 1 fans who are past their sell by date and stuck in their narrow minded ways. They're going for the younger generation and that way they'll create a trendy and current feel to their brand with an audience that will evolve into a purchasing army.

Very impressed with Formula E, how many series have died over the years while Formula E thrives.

[Ben1445]

wtf? half of those "overtakes" are done by forcing the other driver off the line (due to missing the braking point by miles) or even crashing into them. it's like driving dumper cars

Interesting take on that. I mean I disagree with including any contact overtakes on a 'best overtakes' compilation but whatever. 

 

The fact remains that there is actual overtaking so I don't know what people are looking for. Processional races? Ah how boring. Lots of tricky but perhaps scrappy overtakes? ah can't have that either. 

 

The average motorsports fan will never be satisfied! 

[Vielleicht]

I like the concept, but they need to be on traditional race tracks. If they can get faster cars + actual racing circuits I see it becoming far more popular.

Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. But they have built their brand really quite tightly now around the 'street racer' angle and I really believe that has contributed to the popularity that it has gained. I'm not sure we'd be where we are now if the UK round had been the Silverstone National Circuit instead of Battersea Park for example - it would be a completely different series.

 

So I don't know. I'd certainly hate to see them run at soulless modern FIA Grade 1 venues I cannot lie. Much rather the grittiness of a Long Beach or a Monaco vibe, which they're not quite getting yet but that's not out of reach.

[LBDN]

wtf? half of those "overtakes" are done by forcing the other driver off the line (due to missing the braking point by miles) or even crashing into them. it's like driving dumper cars

I've thought this for a while. There are some drivers of reasonable quality in this series but the fact they are constantly bumping into each other makes the whole thing look very amateurish to me.

In reality though it isn't helped by the circuits being awful.

[Piif]

I think in the next 10 years FE will equal F1 in popularity, albeit being more successful in different demographic. The lavish, luxurious lifestyle that Formula 1 embodies, isn't necessarily something that younger people aspire to and that might be a big factor in the more down-to-earth, no fossil fuel burning series increasing in awareness and popularity.

[Piif]

wtf? half of those "overtakes" are done by forcing the other driver off the line (due to missing the braking point by miles) or even crashing into them. it's like driving dumper cars

 

So much more fun to watch than the current Formula 1 though. At least they can drive behind each other and really do some battle.

[Vielleicht]

I will also quickly note that I posted the overtake video in response to a claim that no one could overtake in Formula E.

[Dennista]

FE will kill F1 within 15 years. Merger to take place.

[ExFlagMan]

 

wtf? half of those "overtakes" are done by forcing the other driver off the line (due to missing the braking point by miles) or even crashing into them. it's like driving dumper cars

Not a lot different from F1 then - apart from the fact there is minimal run off in FE as opposed to F1 where you can make similar moves knowing the other driver can run off track to avoid the collision.