74 replies to this topic

[BRG]

Bear in mind that modern cars are designed to last, without significant repairs, but with routine maintenance, for X km, where X is a somewhat variable number, but say 30000-100000 as a start (that varies by both manufacturer and model). That gets the car out of the warranty, and in most cases into the hands of the second or third owner. The third owner of a car is NOT the customer that the car is designed for, if it is a troublesome POS by then, well you are basically operating in unknown territory so far as the car's development process went. The only customer who  gets really considered is the one who buys the car in the first place, and since he is affected by residuals, that means the second owner also gets a look-in.  TCO is tracked by all fleet operators, so you'll find that maintenance for the expected life of a fleet vehicle is cheap. But once you are out of that zone, TCO is a low priority, except so far as it affects residuals for fleet operators.

When I started driving, a five year old, 50k mileage car was all I could afford, and was generally regarded as approaching 'banger' status.  Now i see cars 10 or 15 years old still in every day use, still looking smart (the dreaded tin worm seems to be extinct) and running reliably.  With modern ECUs and FI, they start without a problem even on a British winter's day.   The improvement over the last 30 years or so has been huge. 

 

And these modern 'old bangers' will out run the sporting cars of my youth, whilst returning mpg figures to give a Arab oil baron bad dreams.

[gruntguru]

Hope he does as well with the Golf.

[Henri Greuter]

Oh well - Fiero then.

Had a ride in one a few weeks ago, an Indy '84 Pace car replica.

Dead honest: I still think it is a dandy of a car for looks, it still looks as capable of being fast above average.
But driving it....
Just aboutr every average car outdoes it in performance....
Wasted chance..
Still, it remains looking good....
And in early morning traffic jams it still helds up with everything.....

[gruntguru]

I drove one about 30 years ago. Very disappointing even then.

[Greg Locock]

Fiero wasn't great on the circuit, but that was probably because the engine wasn't enough to really get it going (ie it had too much rubber and not enough go). I didn't drive it on the public roads which is where it really should have been.

 

Roughly speaking a pretty, heavier, TR7 with less power. Not that the original TR7 was a fireball. Stick a V8 in either of them and I'd take the Fiero.

Edited by Greg Locock, 11 October 2018 - 23:43.

[Canuck]

About the same as those who fantasize over the Acronyms: FWD, DOHC, IRS, or descriptions Paddle-shift, Turbo as being so much superior to anything else without a clue as to why.
...
Gotta love FWD crap-wagons.

I'm by no means suggesting any of your acronyms are a better solution than the current Corvette layout, only that to stand on it and call an ME version a cliché is the ultimate in the pot calling the kettle black.

"Fully CNC'd" is one of those acronyms used by people who don't stand in front of a bank of CNC machines all day, that amuses me (and those that do) to no end. It hadn't dawned on me that they had absolutely ~no~ idea what they were saying. It is a magic spell. "Is that", pointing to some random,$8 part on the desk, "fully CNC'd?" they'll ask, usually with gravitas as though they were staring at a hockey bag stuffed with cash*. A solemn nod, "then ENC'd and HSN-injected" I offer. Wide eyes in reply.

"Fully CNC'd" is akin to "washed entirely in the dishwasher, not in the sink", nothing more.

*(a hockey bag will hold ~$1M in $20 bills, not that it's very mobile).

[Fat Boy]

It's just a factual observation that the Z06 pulls more G in the corners, which the NISMO seems to (more than) make up on the straights - quite the opposite of the old stereotype of American muscle cars.  I don't have a dog in any fight over which is "better".

 

A cursory look at the overlay data shows the 'Vette is probably less stable on corner entry (definitely lacks on entry speed compared with the Nissan). It doesn't get off the corners well at all. Honestly, it looks like driver was not driving the 'Vette in the manner which would have been the fastest, either. He was optimizing mid-corner rolling speed in most places, but should have been more concerned with later braking and earlier throttle. High mid-corner rolling speeds are often at the detriment of lap times, especially with a car that's traction limited on exit.

 

They tell you early what the problem is with the 'Vette, oversteer. That's why it puts up such great skidpad numbers, but that's also why you can't drive the damned thing on a racetrack. If you set up a car up for a skidpad, you'll have a car that's _way_ too loose to drive on track.

 

FWIW, Willow Springs is about the least applicable racetrack to real world applications you'll ever find.

[Wuzak]

So if a mid-engine Corvette is controversial, what about an electric Corvette?

 

https://genovationcars.com/

[gruntguru]

Whether or not the Corvette name survives the transition, all supercars will one day be electric.

[Bob Riebe]

Another wonderful item with todays new cars is the plastic paint they use.

Now you cannot blame the car but my afore mentioned cousin spent a goodly chunk of money, some covered by insurance when it seems he was a paint scratch magnet.

This was on his then new Equinox.

 

Simple spot paint fixes that here, to this day, will cost at most a couple hundred dollars if you are fortunate enough to have lacquer, start at near one thousand dollars and go up, a lot.

I asked my body man , who is sadly going to retire next year, if he could fix some spots on my 1978 Olds Delta 88, and how much , these are small spots.

He said one hundred to two hundred per spot.

I asked how much if I had urethane, he said it would be over one thousand , closer to two, as they would have to do the hole fender and  door.

This is true surface rust, spots the sixe of a pencil eraser.

He said I could just as easily do it myself.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 05 December 2018 - 00:37.

[cedarsf1]

As an owner of multiple Corvettes myself, I can say that they are wonderful cars. The only problem is the image. Most owners are white men well past the age of 50, so not exactly the demographic that younger buys think of as "cool." Considering that the same demographic is also the one that has gone overwhelmingly for Trump, this further sullies the image.

 

I work in a hospital and there are many doctors who drive 911's. A 911 is a very respectable car here in the U.S. If you own one people don't assume that you are having a mid life crisis or are trying to show off.

 

By the way, many enthusiasts know that Corvettes, especially C5 (2001 - 2004) Z06's are the best performance value, but less know that C5 Z06's are also great driver's cars. I've driven several dozen different cars on track, and the C5 Z06 is my favorite.

[Bob Riebe]

 

I work in a hospital and there are many doctors who drive 911's. A 911 is a very respectable car here in the U.S. If you own one people don't assume that you are having a mid life crisis or are trying to show off.

No but far more than you seem to realize believe that the fact they are rich enough to own one is one of the reason that health costs are so damn high.

 

The only problem I see with older persons driving Corvettes is most drive them like a little old lady librarian.

In the past, when a Corvette came rumbling by rather than whisper quite, you knew that dude, or chick, bought the car for the reason it was created.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 05 December 2018 - 18:43.

[mariner]

Going back to the C5 Vette my wife had friend in New York State who had sadly lost he husband in her 60's. Shortly afterwards she actually won a years use of Vette in a automatic prize drawing.

 

When the year was up she bought the car off the supplying dealer as she so enjoyed blasting around it it.

 

So whatever the image it s nice to know a Vette helped cheer up a widow!

Edited by mariner, 09 December 2018 - 11:18.

[Greg Locock]

"driving Corvettes is most drive them like a little old lady librarian."

 

Well, they always had the reputation of being a hairdresser's car, so I guess librarian is a move up the career ladder.

[cedarsf1]

 The only marque I can think of that doesn't have a bad image is Lotus. When you see someone driving one, you know that they are an enthusiasts. Can't say that for Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, or any other performance car.

[Bob Riebe]

Back when Great Britain had  affordable sports  cars, you knew they were in a world of their own also.

I remember a friend of mine had a little MG.

He was not a small person and one day he drove over with a friend who was even bigger, tall not fat.

 

It looked like a toy car you used to get in the U.S. where when pulled it with a string the two passengers heads popped up and down.

[gruntguru]

Those two guys should try getting in an Elise.

[sblick]

I was wondering how the Corvette faithful are going to take to a flat plane crank in their Vette.  Video is going around of the racing Vette at Sebring and everyone is saying it is a flat plane crank.  Definitely doesn't have that Chevy V8 grumble.

[gruntguru]

Mid engine and a flat plane crank. To hell with the Corvette faithful - someone will buy it.

[sblick]

It seems Chevy is bent on abandoning their faithful or there will be "cheaper" models with a good ol 'Mericun V8.

[Greg Locock]

Maybe the 20 yo target market doesn't want V8 rumble.

[Bob Riebe]

Maybe the 20 yo target market doesn't want V8 rumble.

A lot of the snot faced punk mag. writers ( any one under 45 years old) piss and moan about bass tones of V-8s on long trips.

They should stick with their fwd crap-wagon mini-vans.

 

At that Alan Johnson just released water jacketed versions of his Top Fuel Hemi blocks, so bucks-up real gear-heads can wow their friends.

He also has water jacket versions of his 481X on the way.

[sblick]

I'd rather have a flat plane myself just because it is different.  I wonder if the Mustang engine forced GM into this.  I guess there could be racing advantages to this that they want to exploit?

[Fat Boy]

Maybe the 20 yo target market doesn't want V8 rumble.

 

Do you really think that's the target market? They can't afford it.

[kikiturbo2]

Do you really think that's the target market? They can't afford it.

well, the new generation of startup milionares are gobbling up porsches and ferraris.. Also, the 50 y/o with serious money dont give a darn about V8 rumble anymore.., and also put ther money in biturbo V8s with single plane cranks. The junior supercar market is quite evolved these days and 90 deg pushrod V8s just dont cut it..

 

Reality is that modern junior supercar is turbo with twin clutch trans and does 3 sec 0-60 times with minimal dependance on driver skill.

 

And I really do love the LS.. .and vette too..