26 replies to this topic

[Jon Saltinstall]

Good morning all.

 

Having just seen the photos in the latest Motorsport Special edition covering the 1980s, does anyone have an entry list for the Talbot Sunbeam Ti Race "pro-celeb" race that supported the 1982 British Grand Prix, or indeed an account of what happened? Despite being there, this one seems to have passed me by....

[Allen Brown]

Do you mean the House of Lords v House of Commons Shell Super Sunbeam race?

[Tim Murray]

As Allen says, the only event involving the Shell Super Sunbeams was the Lords versus Commons race run at 10.15 on the Sunday morning (practice, followed immediately by the race proper). Motoring News described the event as ‘thrilling as watching grass grow’ and ‘you’ve probably seen more daring pieces of driving in the Monday morning rush hour’.

The Lords had several current or former racers in their team, so not unexpectedly cleaned up:

1. Earl of Arundel
2. Earl of Denbigh
3. Earl of Suffolk & Berkshire
4. Baron Strathcarron

The best ‘Commoner’ was Sir Hector Monro (who once drove a F1 Tyrrell) in fifth.

[Allen Brown]

1. Earl of Arundel
2. Earl of Denbigh
3. Earl of Suffolk & Berkshire
4. Lord Strathcarron

 

Should I know who these people are?  Just shows that hiding behind pseudonyms is not just a modern social media thing   

[Tim Murray]

Arundel did a lot of racing in the ‘80s as Eddie Arundel. Denbigh raced as Rollo Feilding. Strathcarron was an active 500 cc F3 racer.

[Vitesse2]

The Earl of Suffolk & Berkshire's 'career' section in Who's Who tells us only that he 'owns 5000 acres' - although those are actually the Charlton Park Estate near Malmesbury, site of (among many other events) WOMAD. His full name is Michael John James George Robert Howard.

[Tim Murray]

His father was the Earl of Suffolk who became a war hero in WW2, and died when a bomb he was attempting to defuse exploded.

http://www.historyne...plendid-man.htm

[opplock]

Entry list per programme

 

The Rt Hon Lord Strathcarron

The Rt Hon the Earl of Suffolk & Berkshire

The Rt Hon the Earl of Northesk

The Rt Hon Anthony Burghersh

The Rt Hon the Earl of Denbigh

The Rt Hon the Earl of Arundel

 

Sir Geoffrey Johnson Smith, MP

Sir Hector Munro, MP

Richard Page, Esq, MP

Jerry Wiggin, Esq, MP

Clement Freud, Esq, MP

Kenneth Clarke, Esq, MP

Sir Peter Emery, MP

Delwyn Williams, Esq, MP

Jim Lester, Esq, MP

The Rt Hon Michael Jopling, MP

John Corrie, Esq, MP

 

The race was over 5 laps and made such an impression on me that I cannot remember it at all. The lap record for the Sunbeams was held by one Mark Thatcher.   

[BRG]

A pity that this has disappeared.  I am sure I remember a Lords v Commons race with BMWs?

 

They could have had a Leavers v Remainers race at Silverstone this year. 

[john aston]

Yes- we remainers (we'd draft in Vettel and Vestappen too)  would be in BMW M3s and Team Nye (from DCN's comments in Motor Sport ) can drive something appropriately British - I'm thinking  Rees Mogg  in an Austin Cambridge and Gove in a  Riley One- Point- Five .....  No  Boris Johnson as the team joker  , he was entered  but changed his mind  at the last minute (or in view of his recent remarks  should that be minaret ? ) He'd have looked a sight in an Austin Metropolitan 

Edited by john aston, 11 August 2018 - 16:22.

[Jon Saltinstall]

And yet the picture in Motorsport shows David Purley leading Frank Williams. I don't recall either of them being elected as MPs (though some might say they'd have done a better job😃). Maybe it wasn't a support race for the GP?

[Jon Saltinstall]

The race was over 5 laps and made such an impression on me that I cannot remember it at all. The lap record for the Sunbeams was held by one Mark Thatcher.

He didn't get lost, then?

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 11 August 2018 - 16:48.

[2F-001]

Is the picture captioned as being from the '82 GP?
Is the picture actually taken at Brands Hatch?

I think there were Celeb and Pro/Celeb races held at the RoC too (?)
Would Purley have been tempted out by such an event by '82?

(Sorry, only more questions...)

Edited by 2F-001, 11 August 2018 - 17:02.

[opplock]

There was no ROC in 1980, 81 or 82. I did attend the 1983 race but have checked and there was no "celebrity" event. 

 

The 1982 GP programme states that Mark Thatcher set the lap record on 13th July 1980, same day as British GP. If the photo shows Frank Williams and David Purley that may well be the race. Before my time in UK so I don't have a programme. .  

Edited by opplock, 11 August 2018 - 17:50.

[Jon Saltinstall]

Race is captioned as 1982 in Motorsport, but as it's the latest "rare and unseen photographs Collector's Edition" it may not be 100% accurate, as is unfortunately sometimes the case these days. Maybe an entry list for the 1980 race would shed light?

 

MCD / John Webb usually managed to lay something on "extra"; the Escort Mexico races, tractor races etc. Can't see the sniffy world of modern F1 taking too kindly.......

[Tim Murray]

The 1980 celebrity race was another Lords v Commons event won by Mark Thatcher, who was neither a Lord nor an MP.

[opplock]

The 1980 celebrity race was another Lords v Commons event won by Mark Thatcher, who was neither a Lord nor an MP.

 

Isn't he now a Baronet? 

 

I still don't know when this was but can eliminate:

 

Lords v Commons - European GP 1983.  Mostly the same people as in 1982 but now using the "brand-new fleet of Ford Escort XR3i"

 

Shell Super Sunbeam Invitation Race - support to 1000km September 1981. A race was held for the Sunbeams but for "invited lady drivers". The programme notes read "A dozen ladies remove their aprons and postpone the Sunday roast". It got worse from there!

 

The programme for 1982 1000km did not include any such events.    

[Tim Murray]

Isn't he now a Baronet?

He is now - he wasn’t then. His father Denis was created a baronet in 1990, and Mark inherited the title on Denis’s death in 2003.

[opplock]

I wasn't there myself but have just seen a copy of programme for the John Surtees weekend in May 1981. Bikes on Sunday 24th, cars on Monday 25th. https://daveriley.we...atch-1980s.html

 

There was a Pro-Celebrity Shell Super Sunbeam race on the Monday. Entry included Frank Williams, Roy Salvadori, Ago, Geoff Duke, Derek Minter, Phil Read and Barry Sheene. David Purley not listed - possible late replacement? I've checked dates and the meeting was on the weekend between Belgian and Monaco GPs so FW could have been there. I attended both GPs - the reason I didn't go to Brands.   

Edited by opplock, 11 August 2018 - 19:11.

[Tim Murray]

The celebrity race at the 1978 GP was in Escorts. Frank Williams did take part, though.

[Tim Murray]

I wasn't there myself but have just seen a copy of programme for the John Surtees weekend in May 1981. Bikes on Sunday 24th, cars on Monday 25th.

There was a Pro-Celebrity Shell Super Sunbeam race on the Monday.

There’s no mention of either Purley or Williams in the MN report. The race was run in heavy rain and was won by DJ Mike Smith ahead of Tim Lee Davey and Phil Read.

[opplock]

That's another meeting crossed off the list of possibles. 

[bradbury west]

OT a bit, going back to posts 6 and 8 , back in 1973/4 there was a TV series called Dragon's Opponent, the story of the heroic life of the Earl Of Suffolk and Berkshire, with the lead part played by Ronald Pickup. I recall it being very good. The Telegraph has a fulsome review in 2010 of a book about his life, a true hero in WW2. The bomb disposal Earl's mother was one of the classic American heiresses, whose money rescued an impoverished family seat, her money coming from Levi Leiter, a Chicago based businessman who established the Marshall Field store chain before going into real estate in a big way. Her sister became Lady Curzon, a fascinating family history on both sides of the family.
Whilst Charlton Park was the family seat , the Dowager Countess had bought a smaller estate, Redlynch Park near Bruton, in Somerset when her son married, all very Downton Abbey.
Just thought I would mention it following in from earlier posts, and personal interest.
Roger Lund

[Jon Saltinstall]

For what it's worth, the MS photo shows bright sunny conditions. Purley is driving car #20; Williams is aboard #3.

[Tim Murray]

I think I may have cracked it. The celebrity Sunbeam race at the 1982 August Bank Holiday meeting (30/8/82) at Brands included both Purley and Williams. Here’s the MN report:

A full turn-out of the promised celebrities ensured an exciting short circuit Sunbeam race in aid of Racing for Britain at the beginning of the Monday programme. Steve Soper, representing Nicholson-McLaren Engines, led the early stages under pressure from Frank Williams, Adrian Reynard and David Purley. Frantic efforts took Williams into the lead on lap four, just as Purley began to make a move. Soper regained first place after completing half a lap side-by-side with Williams, and Purley took second at the end of lap six. A lap later the Bognor ace was in front, equalling the lap record on his way, and Reynard passed the fading Williams for third on lap eight. James Hunt spent most of the race at the tail of the leading group, but moved up to sixth behind Patrick Head at the end. With MCD’s £500 and various personal sponsorship, Racing for Britain benefited by some £3,500.

Results (10 laps, short circuit):

1. D. Purley 10m 35.1s (68.22 mph)
2. S. Soper
3. A. Reynard
4. F. Williams
5. P. Head
6. J. Hunt

Fastest lap: Purley 1m 01.9s, equals lap record

None of the other 1982 celebrity Sunbeam race reports mention either Purley or Williams. They did feature some strange ‘celebrities’ though. One race was for policemen, and another was for local bellringers!

The Motor Sport photo might not date from 1982, of course.

[Jon Saltinstall]

Excellent stuff - thanks Tim! That answers the question - and explains why I don't remember it from the GP meeting. (It sounds the like the Lords v Commons race was a snooze-fest, so while that was on, I was probably queuing for a burger   .) Does MN say if any other F1 drivers were there; looks like a purely British affair from the results (and given the cause)?

[Tim Murray]

That’s all there was in MN. The race report in Autosport matched the one in MN pretty closely, but did mention Alex Hawkridge and Brian Hart keeping James Hunt at bay in the early stages.

I checked both mags for any race previews or additional news snippets, but didn’t spot anything.

The Autosport reporter (Paul Harmer) described it as ‘certainly the best ever Sunbeam race.’