125 replies to this topic

[GodHimself]

Fans and teams alike, often speak of charisma and right personality, as some of key factors influencing driver's and team's chances of success. A charismatic, dedicated driver with great work ethics, can quickly turn into a real leader, galvanizing the team and making everyone work their bottoms off towards a common goal, sometimes even overachieving (relative to their perceived ability, skill and resources) in the process. I'm sure there are many examples of this throughout the motorsport history.

 

However, inspired by certain moves in the current F1 driver market (not mentioning them by name to avoid a sh*t storm.... but you can guess ), I'm coming with a slightly different, yet closely related question:

 

What are, in your subjective opinion, some of the dullest, most unspectacular and uncharismatic driver line-ups in motorsport history and why?

 

Line-ups that resulted in (or strongly contributed to) the exact opposite of the outcomes mentioned above. Drivers that arguably made their teams underachieve (relative to their perceived or expected ability), workforce lose faith and dedication, and perhaps even slide into oblivion.

 

Here is an obligatory Deepak Chopra bullshit video tutorial on charisma, to help you along the way!

 

Peace and love,

GodHimself 

Edited by GodHimself, 17 August 2018 - 14:49.

[Risil]

I would find it hard to tell. Safe to say every great team has had a great driver pushing them on, but there are many examples of great, charismatic drivers working in utter misery. 

 

As Tolstoy almost said, successful teams are all alike; every underachieving team fails in its own particular way.

[Jovanotti]

Ericsson - Nasr at Sauber was as dull as it gets, because of the lack of any personality of the drivers paired with a slow & ugly car.

Edited by Jovanotti, 17 August 2018 - 14:52.

[Nonesuch]

I can't help but think of Sauber in 2014, with Sutil and Gutierrez. I'm not sure anyone was a fan of that!

 

But perhaps the fact this comes so readily to mind proves the selection wrong.

[Thatfastguy]

Stroll - Sirotkin

[EthanM]

I can't help but think of Sauber in 2014, with Sutil and Gutierrez. I'm not sure anyone was a fan of that!

 

But perhaps the fact this comes so readily to mind proves the selection wrong.

 

 

I see Sutil and Guitierez and raise you Pedro De La Rosa and Narin "gherkin" Kartikeyan, HRT Circa 2012.

[Risil]

I imagine Pedro de la Rosa was great to work with. At least, teams kept inviting him back!

[GodHimself]

I imagine Pedro de la Rosa was great to work with. At least, teams kept inviting him back!

Yep, I would like to stress, that the intention of my question is not to find the slowest (or the least skilled) driver pairing of all time, but rather the dullest and least charismatic. Speed and charisma do not correlate completely in my head. I can certainly see a few of the current and former drivers, who weren't the slowest, but oh boy were they dull as this list of the 50 most boring things about modern life https://www.mirror.c...-boring-5596113 (funnily enough, Formula 1 comes in 22nd place, right between diet chats and rice cakes   )

Edited by GodHimself, 17 August 2018 - 15:11.

[jcbc3]

I find Kimi utterly dull. So there's probably a pairing in his career that would come in on this list.

 

I fully realise that I am in the very small minority with this opinion, but it is what it is.

[Sndr]

I find Kimi utterly dull. So there's probably a pairing in his career that would come in on this list.

 

I fully realise that I am in the very small minority with this opinion, but it is what it is.

 

i'm with small minority.

[sopa]

What is a 'dull' driver? I think this question could easily be misunderstood and I don't think it can be discussed like that anyway, because we barely know most of the drivers anyway.

 

These guys mentioned in this thread are mentioned only because they are unimpressive drivers, but we have literally no idea, how they worked behind the scenes in the team, which the thread is asking for, right?

[DarthWillie]

This won't end well

[EthanM]

What is a 'dull' driver? I think this question could easily be misunderstood and I don't think it can be discussed like that anyway, because we barely know most of the drivers anyway.

 

These guys mentioned in this thread are mentioned only because they are unimpressive drivers, but we have literally no idea, how they worked behind the scenes in the team, which the thread is asking for, right?

 

dull ... boring ... not interesting ... you can argue Maldonado was bad, he was not boring. IMO the pairing I mentioned (PdLR & Karth) was the most uninspired driver pairing in the last 20 years

[Burai]

The Hill-Coulthard and Hakkinen-Coulthard combos were personality vacuums.

 

All three of them are far more charismatic in their current media/ambassador roles.

[sopa]

I can certainly see a few of the current and former drivers, who weren't the slowest, but oh boy were they dull as this list of the 50 most boring things about modern life https://www.mirror.c...-boring-5596113 (funnily enough, Formula 1 comes in 22nd place, right between diet chats and rice cakes   )

 

I see, Formula One itself is more boring than any of the drivers.

 

/thread.

 

[ensign14]

I see your Sutil-Gutierrez and raise you Sutil-Yamamoto.

 

Merhi-Stevens was a bit pointless as well.

[sopa]

I see your Sutil-Gutierrez and raise you Sutil-Yamamoto.

 

Poor Sutil doesn't get much love here. 

 

For all the 'boredom' I'd say he was a solid driver in itself, had some impressive wet weather races, and obviously - to really shake off the boredom - glassed a Lotus key figure.

[noriaki]

I find Kimi utterly dull. So there's probably a pairing in his career that would come in on this list.

 

 

Nick Heidfeld?

 

...though that pairing didn't exactly make Sauber sink into oblivion - unlike the infamous Sutil-Gutierrez duo. They even had a grey livery.

 

From recent memory, I'd also add the 2012 Marussia lineup of Timo Glock and Charles Pic. Neither of them was really *bad* - but Glock only seemed to lose motivation as the repetitive Manor/Virgin/Marussia years went on, and Pic wasn't exactly the next Alain Prost, either. The 2013 arrival of Bianchi seemed like such a breath of fresh air for the team after them two!

[noikeee]

 

Merhi-Stevens was a bit pointless as well.

 

Not just a bit, literally pointless.

[Veemax]

Schumacher and whatever lapdog he was employed with.

[noikeee]

Oh and if we're going for 2 genuinely good drivers but with the personality of a dishwasher, I nominate Force India's pairing of Hulkenberg-di Resta.

[garoidb]

Thierry Boutsen and Riccardo Patrese. I like them both, but it seemed an uninspiring line up for Williams at the time, given what had gone before. I suspect they could have had more success in 1989 and 1990 with at least one of these switched out. Not counting the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet/Berger group, I wonder if someone like Alboreto, for example, could have done more for them.

[Bloggsworth]

Mansell and anybody...

[Collombin]

Mansell and anybody...

I think paired with Keke it almost got back to neutral though.

[NixxxoN]

Timo Glock and Jerome d'Ambrosio at Virgin 2011

[HP]

The Hill-Coulthard and Hakkinen-Coulthard combos were personality vacuums.

 

All three of them are far more charismatic in their current media/ambassador roles.

Mika had a way to make people laugh without saying much. And they were like almost any pairings these days are victims of corporate business. The pre race statements from teams and drivers were an utter bore even in those days.

 

I wouldn't expect drivers saying something negative about their employer, sponsor. However have them talk about something about themselves would go a long way to give them some charisma.

[Spillage]

We don't know how dull the guys are off the track, so I wouldn't like to say.

 

But as far as dull meaning 'solid but unspectacular' goes, Panis-Zonta at Toyota would take some beating. Blundell-Katayama was pretty bang average as well. Maybe this'd make a decent thread of its own...

[ensign14]

I dunno, Blundell-Katayama was quite a fun line-up.  One driver with a questionable grasp of English that made his interviews an adventure, and Katayama.

[AvranaKern]

Hamilton-Kovalainen and Schumacher-Barrichello were as dull as any because there was no question who would win between them. No rivalry existed. In that sense, Stroll-Sirotkin is more exciting than these two as there is least an expectation to see if one of them will have the upper hand.

[Dr. Austin]

Outside of Alonso, I don't find anyone in the field to be even remotely interesting.

[LH44Fan]

Stroll - Sirotkin

 

Winner 

[jcbc3]

I would have paid good money to hear a Japanese telecast covering the Blundell Brundle pairing in Ligier.

[worms2011]

Mika had a way to make people laugh without saying much. And they were like almost any pairings these days are victims of corporate business. The pre race statements from teams and drivers were an utter bore even in those days.

I wouldn't expect drivers saying something negative about their employer, sponsor. However have them talk about something about themselves would go a long way to give them some charisma.

I was actually rewatching Imola 98 last night and during Brundles grid walk he asked Bernie what he thinks of the current drivers. His response was “very conservative (outside of the car)”.

There were no real characters back then. Only Irvine and JV.

[Anja]

I find Kimi utterly dull. So there's probably a pairing in his career that would come in on this list.

 

I fully realise that I am in the very small minority with this opinion, but it is what it is.

 

I would agree that Kimi is rather dull in terms of personality. Just a normal, ordinary guy. The interesting part comes from him being completely unapologetic about it and even actively rejecting others trying to change that, create some sort of image or PR look for him. He could have easily surrender to it and be just like any other boring driver whose personality is replaced by PR training when speaking to the media, but he wanted to be himself even if that means being dull. 

[David Lightman]

I dunno, Blundell-Katayama was quite a fun line-up. One driver with a questionable grasp of English that made his interviews an adventure, and Katayama.

Haha! Brilliant

[pacificquay]

Oh joys, a thread rooted in negativity.

 

All these guys are heroes, even if the internet age no longer allows for that.

[P123]

I always felt Boutsen and Patrese was a bit of a dull lineup for Williams.

[P123]

Oh joys, a thread rooted in negativity.
 
All these guys are heroes, even if the internet age no longer allows for that.

Yeah, I know I'm being unfair to the two I mentioned- just didn't like it at the time as a lineup (hard act to follow from who went before). Although, it is sort of like most topics, where we usually get down to all modern drivers being crap, and the past being the good old days with lots of action and where everybody had a 'personality'. And money grew on trees too. Except most lack the awareness to realise that this has been the standard mump of F1 fandom since the internet began, and no doubt before.

[GodHimself]

Oh joys, a thread rooted in negativity.

 

All these guys are heroes, even if the internet age no longer allows for that.

Why negativity? Charisma and interesting personality are very important features of every human being, including sportsmen in such a complex, team sport like F1. They are also very difficult to define and measure objectively. And yet we all know they play an important role and instinctively feel whether somebody has charisma or not, even if we cannot fully explain why.

 

One of good ways of analysing vague and elusive concepts like that is by reasoning in terms of extreme examples - in this particular case drivers with very powerful personalities and lots of charisma on one end of the spectrum, and those with none on the other end. This thread is a fun attempt to gather some fully subjective data on who among the drivers people perceive as dull and why.

 

No need to preach from a high horse. And by the way, no, being an F1 driver does not automatically make you a hero.   Some words seem to lose their meaning with time.

Edited by GodHimself, 17 August 2018 - 18:13.

[Kalmake]

I always felt Boutsen and Patrese was a bit of a dull lineup for Williams.

Like James Hunt said "journeyman drivers". 

[Piif]

I find Kimi utterly dull. So there's probably a pairing in his career that would come in on this list.

 

I fully realise that I am in the very small minority with this opinion, but it is what it is.

 

Kimi&Heidfeldt was pretty dull.

[Chunkinator]

Sutil-Di Resta at FI in 2013 was a bit dull

[sopa]

Thierry Boutsen and Riccardo Patrese. I like them both, but it seemed an uninspiring line up for Williams at the time, given what had gone before. I suspect they could have had more success in 1989 and 1990 with at least one of these switched out. Not counting the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet/Berger group, I wonder if someone like Alboreto, for example, could have done more for them.

 

Outside the group you mention, I very much doubt it. Unless you think the spectacular Alesi could have done more in 1990. Or Nannini.

 

Alboreto was already past it by that time. There was a reason he dropped out of top teams after 1988, having been beaten by Berger in consecutive seasons.

[sopa]

I would have paid good money to hear a Japanese telecast covering the Blundell Brundle pairing in Ligier.

 

Well, I guess there were the Brundell brothers driving. Or the Blundle's, I'm unsure now.

 

E: Surprisingly similar in performance too. So the brothers certainly seemed to come from the same family. 

Edited by sopa, 17 August 2018 - 18:40.

[BuddyHolly]

Williams 1990, Boutsen and Patrese.

[Brod]

Fangio + Moss, Clark + Hill, Senna + Prost, Alonso + Hamilton. What were those teams even thinking? Talentless, flat, boring, underwhelming, insultingly uncharismatic sock ironers...

 

To be more serious: I always liked Minardi, but was not very excited by Bruni and Baumgartner

[Dr. Austin]

Everyone since Lauda has been less than entertaining.

[William Hunt]

surprising that several people mention Sutil as 'dull', they clearly haven't visited a party or nightclub with him

[Baddoer]

Midland 2006: Albers - Monteiro

[GodHimself]

surprising that several people mention Sutil as 'dull', they clearly haven't visited a party or nightclub with him

Well, it doesn't take much charisma or personality to behave like a boor (I would classify glassing someone as such behaviour) in a nightclub.

 

Adrian's dolphin and legions of drunken club goers, nod in agreement.