13 replies to this topic

[Bikr7549]

I had an interesting (to me) thought the other day about Team Lotus and its Indy efforts. With Dan Gurney initiating it and with Ford participation they did very, very well there and turned things upside down. But eventually for a number of reasons stopped participating with last entry I believe being the turbine car in 1969 or 70.

 

Fast forward 7-8 years. They are coming back on top in F1 with ground effects and Mario Andretti in a DFV powered car, and won the championship in 1978. With the combination of their new technology (using the DFV), a well proven Indy 500 driver plus undoubtedly his knowledge of the turbo DFV effort at Parnelli's, why wasn't there a push to combine all 3 of these into a potentially winning Indy effort? Sure the car would have needed changes and the turbo was not mature, but all the seeds were there to duplicate their winning 500 effort again. 

 

Can anyone speculate on why this never happened, and if it was discussed what derailed it?

 

Bob

[Tim Murray]

The last official Lotus effort at Indianapolis was in 1969 with the type 64. This fearsome device had four-wheel-drive and a turbocharged 2.6-litre Ford V8. Hill, Rindt and Andretti were the drivers, but the whole team was withdrawn after Andretti had a massive accident caused by the failure of an insufficiently-heat-treated rear hub.

This disaster led to major bust-ups, first between Chapman and Andy Granatelli of team sponsor STP, then between Lotus and Ford who (mistakenly) believed that Lotus had absconded with their engines. Later (early ‘70s) Lotus had to pay a significant sum to Robs Lamplough after losing a court case over the sale of the 64s to him.

All this was probably enough to put Chapman off Indy for life, and there might well have been some outstanding legal issues from the earlier disputes precluding the return of Team Lotus to Indianapolis.

[Michael Ferner]

Look at the schedule. F1 in the seventies was very different from F1 in the sixties. Every other weekend in May there was another WC race, no time anymore to go to Indy.

[Gary C]

Team Lotus built an un-raced Indycar in the late 80's (I think), there's photos of it in the Andrew Ferguson 'Lotus at Indianapolis' book and it looks georgeous!  (Type 96?).

Edited by Gary C, 22 August 2018 - 07:16.

[Mallory Dan]

Yes, Gary the type 96. A well-known team from the 60s/70s was involved in the deal, I just can't remember who now! 

[Gary C]

Winkelmann

[2F-001]

Didn't the 96 precipitate regulation changes (relating to materials and construction?) before it had even run? (Or even before it was finished - I'm not sure it ever did run, did it?).
Nice looking machine though. Still residing with CTL?

Edited by 2F-001, 22 August 2018 - 07:32.

[StanBarrett2]

Piece titled 'Blackballed at the Brickyard' in MotorSport August 2004

https://www.motorspo...alled-brickyard

[Charlieman]

It was a busy time at Lotus -- the next step from the Lotus 79 didn't work and the F1 team had new sponsors (David Thieme ) who needed babysitting; Chapman was working on new production cars and engines, no doubt with a "hobby" boat or light aircraft project in the background. And then there was the DeLorean consultancy. Perhaps we should be grateful that Lotus decided not to go to Indianapolis.

[garoidb]

It was a busy time at Lotus -- the next step from the Lotus 79 didn't work and the F1 team had new sponsors (David Thieme ) who needed babysitting; Chapman was working on new production cars and engines, no doubt with a "hobby" boat or light aircraft project in the background. And then there was the DeLorean consultancy. Perhaps we should be grateful that Lotus decided not to go to Indianapolis.

 

I think Essex sponsored Mario Andretti's Penske in 1980 too, although obviously not under any Lotus association. 

[Bikr7549]

The F1 reliability topic discusses Ferrari being in the doldrums while trying to run 2 major series, so it makes sense that the same would apply to Lotus as well, being stretched too far. I wasn't aware of the 64 problems, that is pretty interesting-the politics too. Yes, just looked at the F1 schedule; until the addition of the Spanish GP in 1968, Monaco was the first european round (except for a few earlier years with Netherlands event also in May) so Lotus would have had to miss only that one race instead of 2.

[Roger Clark]

Always follow the money. In the 60s, there was very little money in Grand Prix racing and a lot at Indianapolis. By the late 70s the situation had been evened out, if not reversed

[Charlieman]

Let's assume that Lotus weren't too worried about F1 timetable conflicts because there was enough prize money to run a separate team for the big USAC races.

 

The earliest year that Lotus would have entered a car is 1979, a year after Mario's WDC. Following the unreliability of 1977, Lotus put everything available into the '78 F1 season. Sadly, the USAC/CART split kicked off in 1979. That would have been a serious discouragement for sponsors or manufacturers looking at things from a European perspective. Chaparral also came up with the lovely 2K, which was exactly what you'd have made if you turned the Lotus 79 into an Indy car.

[chr1s]

I remember reading somewhere there was talk of entering a 79 with a DFX fitted for Mario to do the Indy 500 but obviously it came to nothing. It may have been in Nigel Roebucks biography on Andretti but I'm not sure. When I get a moment I will have a look.

Edited by chr1s, 23 August 2018 - 20:02.