90 replies to this topic

[racinggeek]

(Maybe more appropriate as a socio-political discussion in the Paddock Club, but I leave that to the mods.)

 

So, first, former F1/CART racer Derek Daly is canned from his position with WISH-TV in Indianapolis for being accused of using a racial slur years ago by Indianapolis Colts announcer Bob Lamey, with Lamey saying, after he was canned for the same terminology, that he learned it from Daly. Derek acknowledges using the slur but said he never said it to Lamey while also apologizing and claiming naivete for using it.

 

But that's not the end of the repercussions.

 

Conor Daly is making his NASCAR debut this weekend in the Xfinity Series at Road America, driving a Roush Ford with Lilly Diabetes sponsorship -- until Lilly yanked its deal, apparently in response to the accusation against Derek. Conor still is racing, just without Lilly.

 

Sigh ...

[dgsg]

Karma is a bitch!

[MrRat]

dgsg, on 25 Aug 2018 - 02:41, said:

Karma is a bitch!

Why should a son pay for his father's crimes?

[Diablobb81]

Aren't we still paying for some apple?

Very reasonable decision...

Edited by Diablobb81, 25 August 2018 - 03:46.

[DarthWillie]

Idiotic decision unless Conner drives with a KKK hood instead of a helmet

[Afterburner]

This sort of topic has been on my mind recently. I’m not Derek’s biggest fan but I’m pretty sure based on the honesty of his response that he’s not a racist. Racial language != racism. Lilly is being incredibly immature about this.

[ensign14]

This is the sort of **** that got Trump elected.  The righteous left accusing everyone of thoughtcrime pissing off the moderate voter.

[Wes350]

dgsg, on 25 Aug 2018 - 02:41, said:

Karma is a bitch!

 

 

I completely agree!

 

Derek Daly should be utter shunned from polite society. Losing his job for something he said 35 years ago is just a slap on the wrist!

 

And his house should burn down.

 

And his dog should die. If he does not have a dog; he should get one, love it, and then it should die leaving him heartbroken.

 

If he does not already have a divorce, his wife needs to do so now.

 

All his friends need to stop speaking to him, and disown him. If they have not done so in the next 24 hours; they should all be fired from their jobs too.

 

Because if they are still friends with him after this, then they are all literally Nazi's.

 

What he said 35 years ago... is completely unacceptable! It cannot be tolerated and and example must be made!

 

Not only should Conor lose all his sponsorship's, His racing career needs to be over.

 

Like right now.

 

Lily has bravely shown the way, and Conor Daly needs to be boycotted by everyone.

 

It is a crime that physically is hurting people that he is allowed to race after his father admitted to what he said 35 years ago!

 

This is worse than a physical assault. People are now experiencing real pain.

 

It is time for all of us to stand up, and make sure that the lives of the Daly family are completely ruined now that it has come to light that Derek Daly used a very offensive word 35 years ago.

 

Think about what kind of example we want to set for our children!

 

35 Years.

 

W.T.F.

 

We live in clown world kids...

Edited by Wes350, 25 August 2018 - 07:43.

[Diablobb81]

You are way to lenient. You forgot about Conor's kids and grandkids.

Maybe they all need to be sent to reeducation camps.

[SuperSwede]

Yeah, it´s a friggin joke, but unfortunately this is the absurd reality that we live in today.  

[PayasYouRace]

What a ridiculous turn of events. Conor has done nothing.

 

It's bad enough that Derek has been unfairly treated. His track record should speak for itself. Saying something many years ago when you're new to a country shouldn't outweigh his entire career.

 

But Conor? Lilly aren't even sponsoring Derek or his car. Society wouldn't function if we were all held accountable for our ancestors' crimes, let alone poor choice of words.

[P123]

A phrase used 35 years ago, said once, never repeated. For that to cost him his job, and then his son sponsorship is absolutely crazy. We live in the era of the social media driven 'pile on'. The modern equivalent of the pitchfork brandishing baying mob.
 

Quote

“Derek Daly was the first driver to befriend me in an environment I knew little about,” Ribbs said, recalling his arrival in England to race in Formula Ford in 1977.

“1984, Derek Daly and I visited our hero Muhammad Ali at his home in Los Angeles, and The Champ loved him. That same night after meeting with The Champ, we were attacked in a parking lot by some thugs that looked like skinheads, and we kicked the &*%$ out of them.


“ 1990, Derek Daly helped facilitate my first IndyCar deal with Raynor Racing. August 18th, 2018, one of my closest friends in a sport that has been very hostile to me was at my wedding, 41 years after meeting in the UK. That’s Derek Daly.”

[absinthedude]

First of all, what did Derek actually say years ago? Has he apologised? Derek's track record is hardly one of controversy or racism. It's also worth noting that Derek would have been new to the USA at that point having grown up in Ireland and raced in the UK and Europe. Certain words and phrases don't always have the same impact. It does depend on exactly what Derek said and the context. 

 

Secondly, what on earth has something Derek might have said years ago got to do with Conor? Absolutely nothing. Punishing Conor for something his dad said years ago is nuts. 

[PayasYouRace]

When Derek was new to the US he once used an Irish colloquialism which used the n word that is an anagram of ginger.

[absinthedude]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Aug 2018 - 08:59, said:

When Derek was new to the US he once used an Irish colloquialism which used the n word that is an anagram of ginger.

 

That's a little more info, and sounds as if it could be innocent....though context is everything. 

[PayasYouRace]

Ah here we go. I knew someone had linked it in another thread.

 

 

jonpollak, on 23 Aug 2018 - 21:21, said:

Derek Daly fired from WISH-TV for misunderstanding over 20 year old comment. https://racer.com/20...al-slur-claims/

[ANF]

PDF: https://www.wthr.com...aly_8_23_18.pdf

Quote

Statement from Derek Daly

Last night WISH-TV severed ties with me after former sports broadcaster Bob Lamey apparently inaccurately attributed a racial slur to me during an interview in the early 80’s. It was reported on their web site that I confirmed this. Both of these reports are factually incorrect. On this subject, I was never interviewed by Bob Lamey. The slanderous statements made by Bob, and now being attributed to me, are not only factually incorrect, but offensive.

The facts are:
In the early 80’s, after I had recently relocated to the United States, I was interviewed by radio reporter Larry Henry and I was asked about my situation with my new American team. I responded by explaining that I was a foreign driver now in America, driving for an American team, with an American crew, and with an American sponsor – and that if things did not go well, the only “n***** in the wood pile” would be me. At the time, I meant that I, as the new foreigner on the team, would shoulder the blame and I would be the scapegoat. This was not in any way shape or form meant to be a racial slur. This phrase was commonly used in Ireland, Britain, and Australia.

When I used that phrase in the early 80’s, I had no idea that in this country that phrase had a horribly different meaning and connotation, as it was commonplace in Ireland. After moving to the United States, I quickly learned what a derogatory term it was. When I was first informed of this, I was mortified at the offense I might have caused people. I have therefore never used the word since. I made this mistake once, but never again.

As someone lucky enough to travel and work around the world, I have good friends and colleagues from almost every race, nationality, and religion. I have always treated everybody with equal respect and they have done the same with me. Anyone who questions that should talk to them. Similarly, I hope I have demonstrated my character during the past 20 years that I have spent working on television with a range of professionals of all backgrounds.

Finally, I want everyone to know I deeply regret and sincerely apologize for what I said more than three decades ago.

Respectfully,
Derek Daly

[absinthedude]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Aug 2018 - 09:05, said:

Ah here we go. I knew someone had linked it in another thread.

 

OK yep, I see what he said and in that context and in 1983 it would have been perfectly acceptable on this side of the Atlantic. I guess it ruffled feathers then and is now certainly considered completely unacceptable.

 

But....it was an Irish man using Irish vernacular. In 1983.  You probably won't find anyone under 60 using that phrase today, even in the way Derek did, but it was Derek saying that if things didn't work out it would effectively be down to him being new to American racing. Looks like his words were, in fact, prophetic. 

Edited by absinthedude, 25 August 2018 - 09:14.

[MikeV1987]

Firing the guy for a comment he made 35 years ago is stupid by itself, the son losing sponsorship over it takes it to a whole new level of stupid.

[DS27]

You really couldn't make this stuff up. Why stop at 35 years. Why not go back a few hundred and brand virtually every famous person as racist or sexist.

 

I despair of where this world is heading, and social media is helping drive it there.

[Ultrav87]

He wasn't let go because of something his father said 30 years ago... He was let go because they realised they didn't have the funds to sponsor him and used this as a reason to let him go!

Edited by Ultrav87, 25 August 2018 - 09:40.

[LH44Fan]

I'm new to this story but I feel vaguely offended that there was a hint of racism in someones past - i'd like to increase my offended status to a massive 10 so can someone please break this down for me? What are we supposed to be offended about because i'm ready? 

[jonpollak]

Maybe this should be the race thread as well. Xfinity race that is.

[ANF]

By the way, "the person responsible for spoiling sth" is the one and only definition of "the n***** in the woodpile" in my copy of the Oxford Dictionary of English Idioms, which was originally published in 1983 as Oxford Dictionary of Current Idiomatic English Vol. 2. So Daly's statement seems to make sense. (Yes, at the end of the entry – at least in my copy – it says that 'as a result of changing social attitudes, many speakers find expression offensive.')

Edited by ANF, 25 August 2018 - 09:53.

[PayasYouRace]

Ultrav87, on 25 Aug 2018 - 09:38, said:

He wasn't let go because of something his father said 30 years ago... He was let go because they realised they didn't have the funds to sponsor him and used this as a reason to let him go!

Well then it’s equally stupid.

[Vitesse2]

ANF, on 25 Aug 2018 - 09:50, said:

By the way, "the person responsible for spoiling sth" is the one and only definition of "the n***** in the woodpile" in my copy of the Oxford Dictionary of English Idioms, which was originally published in 1983 as Oxford Dictionary of Current Idiomatic English Vol. 2. So Daly's statement seems to make sense. (Yes, at the end of the entry – at least in my copy – it says that 'as a result of changing social attitudes, many speakers find expression offensive.')

A search of Hansard shows that it's a phrase which was used regularly in the UK parliament - especially between the 1950s and early 1980s - although it hasn't featured much recently. Last used in the House of Commons in 1990, and in the Lords in 2008. Their Lordships do of course tend to be somewhat less PC than Honourable Members.

 

Although there are only five examples before 1943, the year of the infamous Learie Constantine case. I wonder whence it came?

 

ETA: There's a similar spread of dates in the Irish parliament. Last uttered in the Dáil in 1996 and in the Senead in 2007!

[JHSingo]

This just popped into my head again.

 

[maximilian]

That just reflects poorly on Lilly. Damn pharma companies are ruthless anyways, so its ludicrous they even pretend to care about social issues.         GTFO Lilly.

[potmotr]

I must say, this is all pretty outrageous. 

Especially on behalf of WISH-TV in Indianapolis.

 

And is there no room in today's world for an apology?

[jonpollak]

maximilian, on 25 Aug 2018 - 12:42, said:

That just reflects poorly on Lilly. Damn pharma companies are ruthless anyways, so its ludicrous they even pretend to care about social issues.         GTFO Lilly.

 

Their desire is to get you to take a pill twice a day for the rest of your life then have to take other pills to elevate the effects of the first.

[ANF]

potmotr, on 25 Aug 2018 - 12:52, said:

I must say, this is all pretty outrageous. 
Especially on behalf of WISH-TV in Indianapolis.
 
And is there no room in today's world for an apology?

Perhaps it's too early to tell given that it all happened a couple of days ago?

[Tsarwash]

I hate the fact that to many people, you are simply not allowed to ever say the N word, (even here I wouldn't like to use it.) Obviously I would never use it towards any individual or group of people, but to not even be allowed to mention the word, when discussing it's level of taboo or rise in power is just stupid, in my opinion. I do not believe that taboo words must be kept taboo, I think this just perpetuates the supposed power that it contains. Context is everything regarding language and communication, and it seems that some people are not interested in any form of context. 

[PayasYouRace]

Even worse is the whole “Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger” double standard applied to the word.

[Tsarwash]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Aug 2018 - 13:46, said:

Even worse is the whole “Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger” double standard applied to the word.

That's a whole different can of worms, which I am certainly not going to get into here today. (apparently it's how you spell the word, even when it is spoken.) 

[jonpollak]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Aug 2018 - 13:46, said:

Even worse is the whole “Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger” double standard applied to the word.

 

What about Mary Ann ?

[Dr. Austin]

jonpollak, on 25 Aug 2018 - 12:55, said:

Their desire is to get you to take a pill twice a day for the rest of your life then have to take other pills to elevate the effects of the first.

 

The blue pill, that is.

Edited by Dr. Austin, 25 August 2018 - 15:05.

[Cynic2]

If you have the opportunity please read Willie T. Ribbs' very strong defense of his friend Derek Daly

 

One can only hope that some "crusading journalist" goes through every statement made by WISH-TV executives throughout their lives.

 

After all, this should be a consistent standard, right?

[LH44Fan]

Tsarwash, on 25 Aug 2018 - 13:39, said:

I hate the fact that to many people, you are simply not allowed to ever say the N word, (even here I wouldn't like to use it.) Obviously I would never use it towards any individual or group of people, but to not even be allowed to mention the word, when discussing it's level of taboo or rise in power is just stupid, in my opinion. I do not believe that taboo words must be kept taboo, I think this just perpetuates the supposed power that it contains. Context is everything regarding language and communication, and it seems that some people are not interested in any form of context. 

 

As a 'person of colour', i'm half Nigerian half English and having experienced racism (in both Countries actually!) I feel I am qualified to comment - it's not the word, it's how it's said, really simple.

 

I've just returned from the gym and bumped into a friend there, he greeted me with 'what up n*gga!', we did the clap clap hug thing and I carried on exercising. Now if the same guy had greeted me with 'what up n*gger!' then a fight would've broken out and I would've lamped him with the dumbells I had in hand at the time.

 

Been called a n*gger many times and it was never meant in a nice way whereas you can be white and be my n*gga, that's cool and I have many caucasian friends who are more black than my black friends even! 

 

As you said, context is everything and i've found there are always people looking to be offended and they will get that way no matter what you say or do. Best to just be the bigger man, rise above it and move on. Life is too short for pathetic squabbles over a mis-utterance someone may have made from a position of ignorance...

[jonpollak]

LH44Fan, on 25 Aug 2018 - 17:37, said:

As a 'person of colour', i'm half Nigerian half English and having experienced racism (in both Countries actually!) I feel I am qualified to comment - it's not the word, it's how it's said, really simple.

 

I've just returned from the gym and bumped into a friend there, he greeted me with 'what up n*gga!', we did the clap clap hug thing and I carried on exercising. Now if the same guy had greeted me with 'what up n*gger!' then a fight would've broken out and I would've lamped him with the dumbells I had in hand at the time.

 

Been called a n*gger many times and it was never meant in a nice way whereas you can be white and be my n*gga, that's cool and I have many caucasian friends who are more black than my black friends even! 

 

As you said, context is everything and i've found there are always people looking to be offended and they will get that way no matter what you say or do. Best to just be the bigger man, rise above it and move on. Life is too short for pathetic squabbles over a mis-utterance someone may have made from a position of ignorance...

That's a lovely explanation LH44Fan.

I hereby deem you the James Baldwin of Autosport !!

 

"it's not the word, it's how it's said"

 

I just wish the rest of the world was as intuitive and could make distinctions which suit the situation.

Life would be so much more fun.

 

Jp.

 

EDIT: PS..

We can all root for # 6Conor and #15Katherine Legge and #18James Davison and #23Bill Elliot and #3Brendan Gaughan tonight...

AND cheer AGAINST the #16 of Ryan Reed which is carrying Conors removed Lilly sponsorship.

Edited by jonpollak, 25 August 2018 - 18:41.

[Myrvold]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Aug 2018 - 13:46, said:

Even worse is the whole “Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger” double standard applied to the word.

 

And then you got me on a Tim Minchin - spree

[djparky]

Pathetic to bring up something from 35 years ago....

[Dr. Austin]

Frankly, I'm offended that anyone was offended.

 

It must be tiring to live solely to be outraged. This is what has probably driven these people insane.

Edited by Dr. Austin, 25 August 2018 - 19:21.

[whitewaterMkII]

Dr. Austin, on 25 Aug 2018 - 19:21, said:

Frankly, I'm offended that anyone was offended.

 

It must be tiring to live solely to be outraged. This is what has probably driven these people insane.

What's pathetic is that twice in the span of of an hour last week in NYC I was called a racist because I didn't hand over money to one guy selling CD's in Time Square and a panhandler there. I'm a freakin' Mexican that got treated like I was a KKK member.

There are legitimate issues with racism, this instance with Conor Daly is not one of them, Lilly should be ashamed, or otherwise they should investigate every one of their employees for what their fathers, mothers uncles or aunts may have said in their past, and if there is a hint of sexism or racism in their families past, fire them.

Conor Daly wasn't even born when Derek made his comments 35 years ago.

[Wes350]

LH44Fan, on 25 Aug 2018 - 09:39, said:

I'm new to this story but I feel vaguely offended that there was a hint of racism in someones past - i'd like to increase my offended status to a massive 10 so can someone please break this down for me? What are we supposed to be offended about because i'm ready? 

 

Welcome Comrade!

 

I see that you only wish to raise you offended status to 10...

 

I will have to report you for badwrongthink, and disown you for not having set your outrage to the proper level of 11.

 

I shall further recommend that you be sent to a re-education facility for daring to ask what you should be offended about!

 

Racism was involved, trying to think for yourself, and being only vaguely offended in such instances is not the proper response for a good citizen.

 

Hopefully the camps will be able to cure you of your Nazi tendencies.

 

 

 

potmotr, on 25 Aug 2018 - 12:52, said:

I must say, this is all pretty outrageous. 

Especially on behalf of WISH-TV in Indianapolis.

 

And is there no room in today's world for an apology?

 

Definition of apology

plural apologies

1a : An admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.

 

i.e. A Total Admission of Guilt.

 

To be remembered and used against said person anytime they say anything as proof that they are literally a Nazi.

 

 

 

Thus endeth the lesson...

Edited by Wes350, 29 August 2018 - 06:52.

[potmotr]

I'm so outraged by everything I see and read each day the Daly outrage has't really outraged me at all.

[jonpollak]

OUTRAGOUS...Daly up to 10th and the 16 is dead last.

(Kat Legge was up to 15th from 25th and has pitted early...cuz she's clever)

 

Jp

[jonpollak]

Conor retired but Kat Legge got a respectable 14th recovering after being spun out while in 3rd by some vanker named Matt Tiff.

[Dr. Austin]

whitewaterMkII, on 25 Aug 2018 - 19:28, said:

What's pathetic is that twice in the span of of an hour last week in NYC I was called a racist because I didn't hand over money to one guy selling CD's in Time Square and a panhandler there. I'm a freakin' Mexican that got treated like I was a KKK member.

 

Welcome to America, where this is how you treat anyone who disagrees with you.

 

whitewaterMkII, on 25 Aug 2018 - 19:28, said:

There are legitimate issues with racism, this instance with Conor Daly is not one of them, 

 

The problem with illegitimate complaints of racism is all of it eventually becomes viewed as just more crying wolf. I'm betting 99% of you dismissed the whole thing before you even read an entire article about it. Like, "oh, here we go again." 

[B Squared]

Robin Miller at Racer on this pathetic display:

https://racer.com/20...built-from-b-s/

[MikeTekRacing]

Lilly's facebook page got a lot of "great" comments after this move. PR at its finest