1097 replies to this topic

[f1paul]

It's kicking off a bit in the build-up thread so to get us back on track to the present day, it's time for the race thread.

 

To summarise what was going on...

 

 

All this talk of goat is making me hungry. I had roast pieces of capretto (baby goat) in white wine with roasted winter vegetables last night at my favourite Italian restaurant. It was divine.

 

Thanks Gillesfan76! 

 

After an amazing qualifying session, it will be championship leader Lewis Hamilton who starts on pole position. But at Spa, sometimes starting in 2nd can be an advantage because you can get the slipstream through Eau Rouge, Raidillon and down the Kemmel Straight to take the lead.

 

A bit like this...

 

 

 

(uh oh it was Vettel vs. Hamilton)

 

Vettel will be looking to do the same in the race.

 

 

The results of qualifying are above, everyone will move up two positions apart from Nico Hulkenberg and Valtteri Bottas who will start at the back because of the silly engine penalties. 

 

It's Hamilton's 5th pole position at Spa (more than any other driver) and what I was looking forward to before qualy was who had the pace in the dry between Ferrari and Mercedes. We didn't get a clear answer but I think it's super close and the drivers can make the final difference. In Q2, half a tenth around a 7.004KM track split the top three which is mind boggling and we should be happy that is that close.

 

All of the hard work behind the scenes and it comes down to milliseconds. Braking half a metre later, carrying a few more KPH into the corner or turning in a fraction earlier is making the difference in F1 2018 and that's great to see.

 

Instead, we got another masterclass from Hamilton in wet conditions. He is excellent in the wet and so is Vettel, but Hamilton is just more consistent and he pulled out a really good lap when he needed it. But Vettel shouldn't be too disheartened, the points are on Sunday and he has an equally good chance to win the race which is what matters most.

 

Meanwhile a new F1 team called Racing Point Force India walked in and locked out the second row. Incredible after what everyone's been through in the last month or so. I know, they had a bit of luck with the weather and other people not fuelling up but hey, they took the chance and punched above their weight again. If only they can lead after lap one tomorrow (or if Hamilton and Vettel take each other out) 

 

(that's enough seriousness now) 

 

 

Found this song about the start of the 2012 Belgian Grand Prix, kind of funny)

 

 

 

 

This is what I think of the track from last year's barmy OP https://forums.autos...ver-f1-is-back/ (warning very heavy content, i.e don't use your mobile data by tapping on the link)

 

 

Unfortunately Spa has been ruined thanks to the FIA who have put so much tarmac runoff that it's almost insulting. I remember the days were there used to be sand traps and were you ACTUALLY got beached, never mind gravel traps. But now you go off the circuit and just pick up speed and can even gain an advantage. Spa is one of many circuits that has been ruined thanks to the FIA and runoff areas. It's still a great track but it has lost its edge unfortunately. It's just not the same. Why can't we at least have grass as runoff so that you still get punished. This is why I hope F1 never go back to the Nordschleife because it will just be ruined, like Spa. 

What he said ^

 

It's still an iconic and great track though, don't get me wrong.

 

 

What will the best strategy be?

 

-The top 10 will all start on the SS tyres so will it be SS-S or SS-M

 

Or will it be a 2 stopper, hopefully it is. SS-SS-S or SS-S-SS, something like that.

 

A nicely timed SC or VSC should make the race a 2 stop race I think.

 

 

I hope we get a similar race to the one above, the two championship contenders going at it all race long. Would love to see that! 

 

I know a lot of you will be upset about Ferrari and what they did with Kimi in qualifying so this is to cheer you up...

 

 

A really great video and I'm not even a die hard Kimi fan.

 

In the build-up thread someone said if Kimi won that 2008 race, then he would have won the Belgian Grand Prix five times in a row which would have been staggering (running out of superlatives now). He's so good around Spa and it's such a shame he couldn't take pole position today. He will struggle to win tomorrow but if he does I will be elated and so, so happy for him.

 

 

As James Hunt said, "big balls"

 

 

Imagine Vettel being Rosberg in this situation tomorrow... might be a tough week for the mods!

 

 

Scary crash at Eau Rouge.... I mean Raidillon! 

 

 

The start of the 1963 Belgian GP - where's the front wings?? 

 

 

The weather should be dry for the race but you never know at Spa so if you want it to rain, I suggest you start doing a rain dance.

 

Now stop arguing about something that happened 10 years ago or when someone made an error in some rainy conditions. Everyone makes mistakes, right? I mean, I'm doing this OP which is a mistake and your reading it which is another mistakes so enjoy the race people! 

Edited by f1paul, 25 August 2018 - 18:51.

[f1paul]

Poll now added! 

 

 

[PayasYouRace]

Nice to see some real effort put into an F1 OP. Good stuff!

Looking forward to the race. The slightly mixed up grid will make the early stages interesting.

[Lights]

Unfortunately Spa has been ruined thanks to the FIA who have put so much tarmac runoff that it's almost insulting. I remember the days were there used to be sand traps and were you ACTUALLY got beached, never mind gravel traps. But now you go off the circuit and just pick up speed and can even gain an advantage. Spa is one of many circuits that has been ruined thanks to the FIA and runoff areas. It's still a great track but it has lost its edge unfortunately. It's just not the same. Why can't we at least have grass as runoff so that you still get punished. This is why I hope F1 never go back to the Nordschleife because it will just be ruined, like Spa.

Amen, to be repeated into eternity.

[Nonesuch]

I vote for Räikkönen to win, because it'd be cool. And he's driving for Ferrari, so there's that.

 

As for the other two: I still think hope there's a chance that in their efforts to both imitate Ferrari's energy system on their own car and prove to the FIA that it's illegal - Mercedes might inadvertently create a situation in which both they and Ferrari end up disqualified from the championship before the end of the year, and Ricciardo goes to Renault as the World Champion.

 

Stranger things have happened... like, the Halo. Which is incidentally part of the reason I won't be staying home to watch the race.

 

But I do want to see a smiling Räikkönen when I check the news-sites later on!

 

Edited by Nonesuch, 25 August 2018 - 19:17.

[Blackoutjulian]

Some people think Vettel only has to pass a Honda tomorrow. Lewis will also use his Q3 mode at the start to stay ahead. Which is quite easy without DRS. Through Mercs higher downforce setup and dirty air Seb wont be able to attack him after S2. Will be a pretty easy Hamilton win tomorrow

[w1Y]

its crazy how much of a better turn in vettel had in that red bull.

Lewis will cover the inside at the start and vettel wil get a better slingshot is my prediction

Edited by w1Y, 25 August 2018 - 19:35.

[FLB]

A reminder of the madness that was 20 years ago (and that the team currently known as Racing Point Force India Etc. has actually won it once) :

 

Edited by FLB, 25 August 2018 - 19:43.

[f1paul]

Nice to see some real effort put into an F1 OP. Good stuff!

Looking forward to the race. The slightly mixed up grid will make the early stages interesting.

Cheers PAYR.

 

I do like the official programme covers of each Grand Prix that usually starts the build-up threads but just a bit of IndyCar style OP stuff should be in the F1 threads as well - For the hype! 

[LH44Fan]

Some people think Vettel only has to pass a Honda tomorrow. Lewis will also use his Q3 mode at the start to stay ahead. Which is quite easy without DRS. Through Mercs higher downforce setup and dirty air Seb wont be able to attack him after S2. Will be a pretty easy Hamilton win tomorrow

 

I disagree, if it's dry tomorrow I can't see past Vettel, if he gets a sniff of the lead (either at the start of via overcut at the 1st pit stops which i'm willing to bet is more likely) he's gone. No one will see which way he went. Seb will be driving angry after Germany and that combined with the Ferrari's pace (at least in his hands, see his medium tyre mega stint in FP) means I can only see one outcome.

 

If it rains or is damp though then yeah, it's on! 

 

Edit - sorry, completely forgot to pay homage to the great OP which I enjoyed reading, I can appreciate the effort that went into it and that was the 1st time i've had a chance to watch Lewis' pole lap (thanks for that too!) when I saw at the end 3 seconds gap I was like - 

 

Edited by LH44Fan, 25 August 2018 - 20:00.

[TomNokoe]

Ocon could really put him in Mercedes good books tomorrow if he attacks Vettel into T1.

[Eff1]

I still think Vettel will win tomorrow if it stays dry.
He has a shot at the start and on the run down to T5, the difference between this and last year is that this time he has a setup/car with a higher top speed, he should be far enough alongside to finish the move at T5 (providing it is a “normal” start).

It’s going to be really tough though.

[Gareth]

I was looking forward to the race. Then I read the OP.

Now I'm super excited for it. Top job f1paul

I reckon a start like last year, with Vettel with extra oomph from the 2018 engine to make the pass this time. Then he drives off into the distance.

If not, could be a tense battle.

Hoping for rain (this is how I have felt before every F1 race for 30+ years now).

[f1paul]

A word on the start. (well, words if you're in that kind of mood) 

 

We saw on the safety car restart last year between Hamilton and Vettel that Vettel was able to get alongside and was even ahead at the sector one timing beam (I think) and that was with a car that has less power and less top end speed than the Merc.

 

Now, it's at least a match on power and speed so Vettel should be able to overtake Hamilton this year. He just has to be careful of making a bad start and ending up behind Ocon or Perez which could ruin his race because they have good top speeds.

 

There was some gamesmanship at Eau Rouge last year as well. Hamilton lifting to make sure Vettel would couldn't get a big slingshot down the Kemmel Straight, forcing him to pop out of the slipstream and into the win. Really clever racecraft and I love that.

 

I wonder if Hamilton will try to do the same tomorrow. I can't wait for the first lap! 

[FLB]

The run to La source at the start is always... interesting.

[Lights]

Hamilton can try clever racecraft tomorrow (this won him the race last year) but it's not going to be effective this time. If the order at the start doesn't change, the Ferrari is strong enough to stretch its legs out of the tow on Kemmel and get a car length advantage. You can't defend that at Les Combes, inside or outside wouldn't even matter.

 

It could even be the case that the best chance for Hamilton winning would meaning losing the lead at La Source and trying to slingshot Vettel on Kemmel to regain the lead.

[MonkeySpin]

I think Vettel's biggest worry at the start should be not getting done by an over enthusiastic Ocon. He has an entire race to go after Hamilton, but if he crashes its race over.

 

 

[PayasYouRace]

Sadly Vettel’s track record at first corners recently isn’t great. He needs to get through cleanly.

[barzini]

Seb will crash into Lewis.

[Marklar]

If Hamilton & Vettel get a equal start Vettel should be able to get him. There is the general slipstream advantage you have and if Ferrari's special mode is still so much more effective at starts this will help too and it also seemed like Mercedes has too much downforce. The Force Indias could end up being a help for Hamilton though.

I disagree with what some people say about the race after this: The reason why Vettel almost passed Hamilton at the restart last year were much better tyres, this makes a bigger difference than any engine mod advantage. Doesnt of course mean that he wont get pass him today, but the conclusion that if he almost did it last year without engine advantage means that he will do it this year for sure is flawed since it ignores this factor.

However, I would bet my money on Vettel seing how he usually starts (just a matter of how clean he keps it though and on whether Ferrari can keep a cool head strategy wise) and that there are definitely options for him after the start. Personally - despite the championship standings - I think Hamilton needs this win more: Monza smells like a whitewash for Ferrari (though we are yet to see the full extent of Mercedes' new PU) and in Singapore even Red Bull could beat him. And the rest program should mostly also suit Ferrari more. Spa is one of the few remaining tracks where I see Mercedes competetive enough (even more with the rain help yesterday of course). Then again the more the gap increases the bigger the pressure will be in Maranello, Vettel winning could ease off a bit pressure.

[Hellenic tifosi]

I generally agree with your post - with the exception of Suzuka, which should suit Mercedes more than Ferrari.

[TomNokoe]

Seb would have to go some to take Lewis around the outside though. Hamilton can afford to be very aggressive.

[cokata]

In the dry over 1 lap at least it looks like Ferrari should have the better car (almost everywhere) even if it's by a tiny margin. Obviously the development race will continue until the end of the year and all this is subject to change.

 

It looks like If Merc and Ferrari are on a similar DF level, Merc have a slightly better front end, while Ferrari have a little better traction out of slower corners. The difference comes from the PU power where the general consensus is that Ferrari have overtaken Merc in that department and that trend appears to be true for the Spec 3 PUs as well.

 

If this trend continues Merc will be a match at Suzuka and maybe COTA, but everywhere else Ferrari should have the upper hand. But that is assuming that there it stays dry and there are no reliability issues for both teams, both of those things are highly doubtful.

[Lights]

Seb would have to go some to take Lewis around the outside though. Hamilton can afford to be very aggressive.

 

The nature of Les Combes is that the outside line works well, you can brake quite a bit later.

[SCUDmissile]

What's the rain situation like lads

[Hellenic tifosi]

Something other that struck me is that Vettel made one mistake in Hockenheim, at the ONE corner without an asphalt runoff. Hamilton made a mistake yesterday, and it could well have ended in tears without the tarmac runoff

 

That changes nothing, obviously, it just shows how much the little details can change the picture.

[TomNokoe]

Much warmer today. Will this bring higher DF into play? Track will offer less grip.

Brings tyre life into play, as well.

Edited by TomNokoe, 26 August 2018 - 09:09.

[Seanspeed]

What's the rain situation like lads

Seeing mixed reports.  A number saying it will be dry around that time, a couple saying chance of rain.  Rain is coming, it's just a matter of when.  Most seem to be saying it wont be til later on(10PM or so).  But as we saw yesterday, it only takes one little stray spot to shake things up. 

[Seanspeed]

The nature of Les Combes is that the outside line works well, you can brake quite a bit later.

Vettel is on lower downforce, so Lewis should have a braking advantage.  

 

People saying Vettel will just blow by are being short-sighted.  Merc still have a stonking engine themselves and will be prepared for it.  

 

And that's assuming Lewis even leads out of La Source to begin with.  Could be Lewis chasing Vettel down the straight, which might actually be preferable.  

[TauriJ]

What's the rain situation like lads

bone dry for the race

[ANF]

The Porsche Supercup race is about to start. Guest driver Felix Rosenqvist is 10th on the grid.

[BuddyHolly]

Superb post f1paul

 

I'm ill today so cannot manage to get to the pub to watch, so I'm monitoring this thread and counting on you guys to keep me up with the action. 

[LH44Fan]

Superb post f1paul

 

I'm ill today so cannot manage to get to the pub to watch, so I'm monitoring this thread and counting on you guys to keep me up with the action. 

 

Bro you do know you can stream it online for free (via a laptop/p.c, iPad or even your phone)? Hit me up via PM if you need a link that always works...

[geralt]

I'm a bit surprised by how many people are convinced that if Seb gets past Lewis at the start, it's race over. Ferrari definitely seemed to have a slight advantage, but that was in quali; the pattern we've seen through the season is that the Mercs are generally more competitive on race day than in quali, so I expect a close battle from start to finish regardless of who's ahead after after lap 1. 

It should be a classic of a race, considering this could be the first on track battle for a win between two four time world champions in the history of the sport. I'm pumped 

Edited by geralt, 26 August 2018 - 10:27.

[Spillage]

Hamilton and Vettel collide at turn 1 amid remonstration and recrimination. Ocon wins a hectic wet-dry race only to lose his seat to Stroll in Monza, who promptly fails to get out of Q1. You heard it here first.

Edited by Spillage, 26 August 2018 - 10:29.

[BuddyHolly]

Bro you do know you can stream it online for free (via a laptop/p.c, iPad or even your phone)? Hit me up via PM if you need a link that always works...

Thanks mate, I have tried that before and it wasn't worth the effort, it kept stopping every 15-20 secs and drove me crazy.

[SCUDmissile]

Hamilton and Vettel collide at turn 1 amid remonstration and recrimination. Ocon wins a hectic wet-dry race only to lose his seat to Stroll in Monza, who promptly fails to get out of Q1. You heard it here first.

Ocon will finish 2nd maybe, to Kimi

Edited by SCUDmissile, 26 August 2018 - 10:32.

[Pete_f1]

I'm always so nurvous on the first run down to Eau Rouge and up to the end of the long straight.

[SmallHorsey]

Hamilton and Vettel collide at turn 1 amid remonstration and recrimination. Ocon wins a hectic wet-dry race only to lose his seat to Stroll in Monza, who promptly fails to get out of Q1. You heard it here first.

Hope so. I've got 50 cents on Ocon @$2001-1. ☺

[JeePee]

It's dryer than Silverstone, that's for sure.

[cheekybru]

Here's hoping that we see a couple of overtakes between the top two, only had 1(?) this season*



























*I don't actually hope this at all, I hope Seb stalls on the grid, falls to the back, comes back through the pack and then breaks down in a massive plume of smoke and engine parts on the last lap

Edited by cheekybru, 26 August 2018 - 11:19.

[TomNokoe]

The idea that starting P1 is a disadvantage has only really come about over the last few years, mainly thanks to Hamilton himself.

For all of my time watching F1, the pole man was never passed into Les Combes on lap 1 until... Hamilton in 2013, after he went wide through the middle of Eau Rouge allowing Vettel to get a run on him. You can just about tell by his line at the top of the hill.



Also pretty obvious if you watch Vettel's onboard. Coupled with a big discrepancy in setup, that Merc was super draggy... easy.

And then again in 2015 when Perez gets a run on Hamilton, he doesn't help himself by going very wide again at the top of the crest... Perez onboard

Last year again, very defensive into T1 at the start. For the SC restart he was in the wrong engine mode into the Bus Stop and then ran wide at T1, allowing Vettel to cruise up behind him.

In conclusion (!!) if he defends fresh air into T1 and butchers Eau Rouge and Radillon then Vettel will fly past him, otherwise, nope.

[PayasYouRace]

*I don't actually hope this at all, I hope Seb stalls on the grid, falls to the back, comes back through the pack and then breaks down in a massive plume of smoke and engine parts on the last lap

 

For the sake of a close championship, I hope that happens to Lewis.

[Trust]

For the sake of a close championship, I hope that happens to Lewis.

Or both of them.

[cheekybru]

Agree Tom, he has not been great first lap of Spa a lot, I just hope he gets wider going into t1

[Ev0d3vil]

Seeing mixed reports. A number saying it will be dry around that time, a couple saying chance of rain. Rain is coming, it's just a matter of when. Most seem to be saying it wont be til later on(10PM or so). But as we saw yesterday, it only takes one little stray spot to shake things up.

Its f1, rain after the race as usual.

[aray]

No rain, no fun.

[jonpollak]

Bangin'OP Mr. Paul.

[f1paul]

WOW!

 

 

 

[Venom]

The idea that starting P1 is a disadvantage has only really come about over the last few years, mainly thanks to Hamilton himself.

For all of my time watching F1, the pole man was never passed into Les Combes on lap 1 until... Hamilton in 2013, after he went wide through the middle of Eau Rouge allowing Vettel to get a run on him. You can just about tell by his line at the top of the hill.



Also pretty obvious if you watch Vettel's onboard. Coupled with a big discrepancy in setup, that Merc was super draggy... easy.

And then again in 2015 when Perez gets a run on Hamilton, he doesn't help himself by going very wide again at the top of the crest... Perez onboard

Last year again, very defensive into T1 at the start. For the SC restart he was in the wrong engine mode into the Bus Stop and then ran wide at T1, allowing Vettel to cruise up behind him.

In conclusion (!!) if he defends fresh air into T1 and butchers Eau Rouge and Radillon then Vettel will fly past him, otherwise, nope.

 

Rosberg did it in 2011 also.