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Extreme E: People behind Formula E plotting off-road spin off?


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#51 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 07:51

Love that there's Bob Varsha in the background acting like a news reader. Please let him be the voice of this one. 



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#52 thegamer23

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:44

Should be at 12 U.K. Time, I'll look for a live streaming of the conference

#53 phrank

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:05

Lets help the environment by racing a bunch of cars through earth's most delicate ecosystems... interesting thinking



#54 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:22

Lets help the environment by racing a bunch of cars through earth's most delicate ecosystems... interesting thinking

Not quite, according to the website they’re going to ‘already damaged’ environments to draw attention to them and then help leave a legacy of clean-up action. The St Helena will double up as a research vessel and document what they find and do.

It’s an...ambitious concept.

#55 phrank

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:29

Love what you can get away with if you 'draw attention' or 'raise awareness' 



#56 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:54

Love what you can get away with if you 'draw attention' or 'raise awareness'


In general maybe, but it always depends on how it’s done. We’ll have to judge in due course, not on currently still sketchy details and assumptions. Luckily there’s a livestream at 12...

Edited by Vielleicht, 31 January 2019 - 10:57.


#57 thegamer23

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:31

 

 

Presentation Event.
 

12 teams, Super pumped eletric SUVs, extreme locations all around the world, Rally Raid + Rallycross format.
Gil De Ferran will be the serie's Boss.

Cars with spec chassis but developable motors (two Gen 2 Formula E motors in each car), power output around 500 kW (640 cv)  :eek:

 

 

Also, the entire paddock will move through sea cargo to minimize the environmental impact. 


Can't wait to hear more about the entries   


Edited by thegamer23, 31 January 2019 - 13:10.


#58 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:58

It sounds MENTAL

#59 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 13:36

It’s kind of Blue Planet Dakar Rally(cross)

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#60 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 13:41

I was heavily geeking out about using kite power to supplement the St Helena’s propulsion.... don’t what that says about me but hell, that’s me...

#61 Fatgadget

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 13:55

Love what you can get away with if you 'draw attention' or 'raise awareness' 

Do nothing instead hey!



#62 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 16:06

I'm just putting it out there that I have no idea whatsoever if this series/concept is going to work in the slightest.

 

That's not a pretext to cynicism or anything, it's just a statement of fact. I guess we'll see how it goes.



#63 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 16:20

Same technical model as Formula E then. 

 

Standard chassis and battery from Spark and McLaren respectively.

Think it implies the two motors will be any homologated Formula E spec motor? 

Also the 'manufacturer-client' capped price supply rule which frankly I think should be applied to any series at risk of runaway-cost because its fantastic. 

 

Single car teams though is interesting. Silhouette bodywork. The FE-spec motor rule hints that they'll target for FE manufacturers to do a direct transfer of tech. First prototype by April, manufacture by July and delivery by November ( :stoned: ). 

 

Curious to see how the environmental stuff is melded in with the 'show'. Genuinely, I think bringing the 'climate-discussion' into a community in which it has to be said it is traditionally something of a brush-under-the-carpet and ignore subject... and then making it front and centre (even more so than FE) is a bold but necessary move. It's inevitably going to ruffle a few feathers but that's the point - It has to be done. 

 

Side note: what do we abbreviate this to? ExE? 



#64 JHSingo

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 18:05

Love what you can get away with if you 'draw attention' or 'raise awareness' 

 

I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said in a recent episode of TGT that "raising awareness" for something is shorthand for doing absolutely nothing at all. :lol:



#65 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 18:32

I think it was Jeremy Clarkson who said in a recent episode of TGT that "raising awareness" for something is shorthand for doing absolutely nothing at all. 

Perfectly explains why I have zero interest in TGT, really. 

 

As usual with them, it is one of those terms that has been hijacked for the purposes of dividing society into a them-and-us attitude, be it for comedic effect or something worse. 



#66 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 18:57

For those wondering about what exactly they mean by 'areas already damaged', Fisher Stephens responded with an answer that was heavily hinting that disused logging roads in the Amazon or disused oil drilling sites in the Arctic as the planned type of location they're after. So it's not in their plans to actually harm such environments, but to race where the damage is already done (and then make a documentary about that damage and ways to tackle it whilst they at it - mad!)

 

In light of that I would suggest no speculative jibes about being 'hypocrites' for going to pristine, delicate environments and trashing them unless they were actually go and do that.



#67 Vielleicht

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 19:01

Side note: what do we abbreviate this to? ExE? 

Motorsport.com has called it XE? If that helps...



#68 BRG

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 20:12

Well, here's your race format folks:

Something of a hybrid between a Rallycross and Rally Raid?

Longer than RX and a LOT shorter than a rally raid.  Perhaps they could call it Short Circuit?

 

It reeks of pretentious virtue-signalling.  'Let's go to damaged environmental sites and race cars and do some research in our spare moments'  Really?  Why not just race them on a bit of rough ground in Hampshire?  Why drag the whole shebang to the Arctic or the Amazon?  It's not like there will be crowds of motorsport-hungry Inuits or uncontacted Amazonian tribes to watch.  Hopefully this will quietly shrivel up and die.  It would be a dreadful idea whether electric or petrol powered.


Edited by BRG, 31 January 2019 - 20:13.


#69 JHSingo

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 20:58

Longer than RX and a LOT shorter than a rally raid.  Perhaps they could call it Short Circuit?

 

It reeks of pretentious virtue-signalling.  'Let's go to damaged environmental sites and race cars and do some research in our spare moments'  Really?  Why not just race them on a bit of rough ground in Hampshire?  Why drag the whole shebang to the Arctic or the Amazon?  It's not like there will be crowds of motorsport-hungry Inuits or uncontacted Amazonian tribes to watch.  Hopefully this will quietly shrivel up and die.  It would be a dreadful idea whether electric or petrol powered.

 

I agree.

 

Sports and politics don't mix. I personally watch sport as an escape to get away from all the terrible things happening in the world. Climate change is a problem, yes, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking "Extreme E" will make a difference. It just seem to be something of an extravagant vanity trip, a self congratulatory pat on the back. "Look how good we are, racing electric cars in parts of the world damaged by ordinary cars!"

 

That trailer didn't win me over. The Attenborough quote, the "research vessel"...what really are they going to learn racing at these places, that scientists don't already know about?

 

Cut the PR crap, and call it what it is. An off road alternative to Formula E for car manufacturers wanting to further develop their electric cars. But I suppose that wouldn't sound quite so good in a glitzy YouTube video, would it?



#70 paulstevens56

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 23:08

Agreed, when you look at the world and what developing countries do compared to the developed world in terms of emissions, these things make no difference.

 

it is about marketing, nothing else, oh maybe a small nod to engineering and proving ideas.  That is why the exodus to FE happened, so much easier to get the budget for that than LM or rallying or rallycross, it is no surprise.

 

Electric is not the answer, it is simply the next 20 years answer.

And we all know how long term business people think these days, it is day by day.



#71 Ben1445

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 23:33

Climate change is a problem, yes, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking "Extreme E" will make a difference.

The act of replacing your lightbulbs with low energy consumption equivalents won't make a real difference....until everyone in the country starts doing the same thing

 

This in isolation won't make a real difference, but the thinking and motivation behind it applied across the board, including beyond motorsport, adds up and can make a difference. So it should do it's best to do what it can. That's all anyone can realistically expect of Extreme E (and Formula E really) on that front and you're kidding yourself if you think it should be able to do any more than that. 



#72 Requiem84

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 06:56

First step in changing anything is creating awareness.

Homerun in this department already. Especially in lesser developped countries there is very little awareness regarding the environment and polution. This Formula can help to make a start with this awareness.

#73 Ben1445

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 08:05

Why drag the whole shebang to the Arctic or the Amazon?  It's not like there will be crowds of motorsport-hungry Inuits or uncontacted Amazonian tribes to watch. 

There will be no live spectators, nor a live stream. They say the whole thing will be edited and released as a 10 part documentary on a platform such as Netflix or Amazon in a kind of 'Blue Planet meets Dakar Rally' as some called it, though I think it's more 'Blue Planet meets Motorstorm: Pacific Rift' myself. Everything from the racing to the climates they visit, to the sustainable technologies they use to the day to day operations of the ship will be covered and woven together 'through the eyes of the people involved'. 

 

It's very far from what we understand to be traditional motorsport by an order of magnitude or more. It's insanely ambitious.


Edited by Ben1445, 01 February 2019 - 08:06.


#74 phrank

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 09:31

Do nothing instead hey!

Me, doing nothing, would still be better for the environment than flying in a private jet to Davos!



#75 JHSingo

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 13:53

There will be no live spectators, nor a live stream. They say the whole thing will be edited and released as a 10 part documentary on a platform such as Netflix or Amazon in a kind of 'Blue Planet meets Dakar Rally' as some called it, though I think it's more 'Blue Planet meets Motorstorm: Pacific Rift' myself. Everything from the racing to the climates they visit, to the sustainable technologies they use to the day to day operations of the ship will be covered and woven together 'through the eyes of the people involved'. 

 

It's very far from what we understand to be traditional motorsport by an order of magnitude or more. It's insanely ambitious.

 

If a race takes place, but there's no-one there to watch it and no live coverage, did it really happen?  :lol:

 

Hard to see how they're really going to build a following at all in that case. Yes, please pay attention to our race series that you can't actually watch or follow live in any way. 



#76 Ben1445

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 14:04

Hard to see how they're really going to build a following at all in that case. Yes, please pay attention to our race series that you can't actually watch or follow live in any way.

If you’re talking about a traditional following then, well, quite.

This is so different it’s almost looking for an audience, not a fan-base. It’s non-traditional. It’s mad. So first thing to do is stop thinking of it in a traditional racing series sense, because that doesn’t seem to be what this is.

#77 BRG

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 18:12

There will be no live spectators, nor a live stream. They say the whole thing will be edited and released as a 10 part documentary on a platform such as Netflix or Amazon in a kind of 'Blue Planet meets Dakar Rally' as some called it, though I think it's more 'Blue Planet meets Motorstorm: Pacific Rift' myself. Everything from the racing to the climates they visit, to the sustainable technologies they use to the day to day operations of the ship will be covered and woven together 'through the eyes of the people involved'. 

 

It's very far from what we understand to be traditional motorsport by an order of magnitude or more. It's insanely ambitious.

No, it's insanely pretentious.  If no-one is allowed to watch it live, why not hold all the races on Army land in Hampshire?  Plenty of rough roads, mud and muck.  And no need to go prancing around the globe at massive expense?  The subsequent viewers won't know (or care) any different.



#78 Ben1445

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:04

No, it's insanely pretentious.  If no-one is allowed to watch it live, why not hold all the races on Army land in Hampshire?  Plenty of rough roads, mud and muck.  And no need to go prancing around the globe at massive expense?  The subsequent viewers won't know (or care) any different.

What planet are you on? If you gave people the option of watching a documentary visiting Hampshire or the Amazon/Arctic/Sahara upwards of 95 times out of 100 they are going to say the latter - add some racing into the mix and it's hardly going to change either.  Also it being live or not is hardly likely to affect that, so I don't know why you've included that bit. Absolutely out-of-touch. 



#79 Ben1445

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:58

Sports and politics don't mix. 

I do not consider climate change to be merely a political issue. At all. 

 

Climate change is a human challenge. We know it's bad and we know we have to deal with it. How do we do that? We do that through science and research. We do that through engineering. We do that through politics. We do that through education. Perhaps most crucially, we do that through telling this whole story in ways people can understand. We do that through all sorts of ways, and that list is by no means exhaustive. They overlap often and work together (or sometimes against each other) in layers. 

 

So this idea that climate change is a purely political issue? Absolutely not. I reject that wholeheartedly. 

 

 I personally watch sport as an escape to get away from all the terrible things happening in the world. 

 

It is interesting that you put it that way. Because to me that indicates loss aversion, which is one of the fundamental road blocks we humans have when thinking about climate change. It's scary, it's uncertain and it might mean losing things we take for granted today. It's a completely natural reaction to want to push that out. There is now a growing understanding of how we comprehend such a vast scale problem, which is that for the most part...we kind of...don't.

 

That's why Fisher Stephens, the director, was talking about this being an opportunity to package up climate change in a narrative that is more accessible. He recognises that beating people with a stick saying that 'the ice caps are melting, average global temperatures are highest on record', etc. just doesn't really get through in the way we know it ought to. This new 'docu-sport' approach will try to explore the issue through the people involved, a narrative that we understand, and capture the human experience which is missing from most of our dealings with climate change. There is value in that, especially when put alongside showcasing how we can go about actually tackling the problem. Even the inclusion of the racing element being an infectious desire to succeed against the clock is an important, calculated part of the thinking behind it (see the parallel?). 

 

I don't expect everyone to understand this immediately but there's people I know (who deal with this line of thinking often) who do recognise the significance of this approach. I say good luck to the Extreme E team because, in the context of what I have said above, it is a wildly ambitious plan.


Edited by Ben1445, 02 February 2019 - 00:03.


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#80 PeterScandlyn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 04:42

Longer than RX and a LOT shorter than a rally raid.  Perhaps they could call it Short Circuit?

 

It reeks of pretentious virtue-signalling.  'Let's go to damaged environmental sites and race cars and do some research in our spare moments'  Really?  Why not just race them on a bit of rough ground in Hampshire?  Why drag the whole shebang to the Arctic or the Amazon?  It's not like there will be crowds of motorsport-hungry Inuits or uncontacted Amazonian tribes to watch.  Hopefully this will quietly shrivel up and die.  It would be a dreadful idea whether electric or petrol powered.

 

It's EXTREMELY pretentious (get the pun).

 

We already have extreme yacht races where countries are morally bound to rescue some knob whose boat has fallen over, adding to their long suffering taxpayer's national debt.

 

How is this any different. Are Agag and his cohorts sufficiently endowed to to handle rescue/retrieval in extreme conditions.

I kind of doubt it - even if it is something as simple as the battery went flat at the wrong time......



#81 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:02

[...T]o me that indicates loss aversion, which is one of the fundamental road blocks we humans have when thinking about climate change. It's scary, it's uncertain and it might mean losing things we take for granted today. It's a completely natural reaction to want to push that out. There is now a growing understanding of how we comprehend such a vast scale problem, which is that for the most part...we kind of...don't.

 

That's why Fisher Stephens, the director, was talking about this being an opportunity to package up climate change in a narrative that is more accessible. He recognises that beating people with a stick saying that 'the ice caps are melting, average global temperatures are highest on record', etc. just doesn't really get through in the way we know it ought to. This new 'docu-sport' approach will try to explore the issue through the people involved, a narrative that we understand, and capture the human experience which is missing from most of our dealings with climate change. There is value in that, especially when put alongside showcasing how we can go about actually tackling the problem. Even the inclusion of the racing element being an infectious desire to succeed against the clock is an important, calculated part of the thinking behind it (see the parallel?). 

 

I don't expect everyone to understand this immediately but there's people I know (who deal with this line of thinking often) who do recognise the significance of this approach. I say good luck to the Extreme E team because, in the context of what I have said above, it is a wildly ambitious plan.

Been holding back a bit and forming an opinion on this becasue it's clear that Extreme E is something quite different from what even I expected. I have to say I do agree with much of this.

 

I can completely see why it comes across as pretentious or even laughable. But I also see the solid grounding in why they have gone about it in this way and admire them for it.

 

Crazy stuff.



#82 Vielleicht

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 20:37

Extreme E Working to “Unlock Solutions” for Climate Change

https://e-racing365....vironmentalism/

 

Environmental advisor/'chief explorer' to Extreme E talking about his aims for the concept, along with reassuring that they will not race somewhere if it unreasonably damages a fragile environment.

 

 

He expects Extreme E, through its dramatic documentary series, to play a part in educating a wider automotive audience about the risks of climate change and the steps necessary to prevent further damage.

[...]

"I think this is a way to start showcasing those conversations.”


#83 Ben1445

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 15:38



#84 THEWALL

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 15:57

Any motor sport not transmitted live is a failure by definition. Add to that the contradiction of "E" and trampling on ecologically fragile places and you have a loser. Of course, it could be that commercially it works, just because commercially successful and intelligent are not necessarily linked these days.



#85 Ben1445

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 17:01

Any motor sport not transmitted live is a failure by definition. 

By which definition? Pretty sure most definitions for motorsport simply state 'a race or competition involving motor vehicles' or words to that effect. 

 

Add to that the contradiction of "E" and trampling on ecologically fragile places and you have a loser. 

 

1) If you've been listening to the organisers of this series you'll know that they will not race anywhere where they will damage delicate environments.

 

2) They will race only in already damaged environments (such as disused logging roads in the Amazon).

 

3) David de Rothschild, an environmentalist, is on board and effectively in charge of making sure they do not damage delicate environments and says it's his priority or he's out.

 

4) Director Fisher Stephens words suggests he'll be out as well if he believes the racing damages environments. 

 

5) Congratulations you have been brought up to speed. 



#86 Vielleicht

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 15:21

Boat.

 



#87 Ben1445

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 10:10

https://www.autospor...xe-plan-details

 

Some legitimate questions raised by Friends of the Earth over XE's commitment to restoring the environments they race in. 

 

"We wouldn't want to dismiss this idea out of hand as a stunt, but - and it's a big but - the organisers need to explain how the event will not exacerbate the damage already caused and how the profits will be used to restore these environments and support local people."

 

It's actually an interesting balanced read, very reasonable comments from both sides and responsible reporting as well. Which somehow seems rare for often highly charged topics like this one. 

 

From what I've read from the personnel involved in making this happen and their plans, I think they have a good chance at striking the right balance. I hope they do, but if they don't there will need to be an appropriate reaction. 


Edited by Ben1445, 23 February 2019 - 10:10.


#88 Vielleicht

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:52

We could have a car launch by July at the Festival of Speed

https://e-racing365....road-prototype/

 

Potential entrants?

"Andretti Autosport, the ABT organization and a team fronted by reigning ABB FIA Formula E champion Jean-Eric Vergne have expressed formal interest in securing entry slots. So far, several manufacturers have expressed interest in the series which is aiming to kick off in January 2021."



#89 Vielleicht

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:12

Spark will build the chassis for XE
https://www.extreme-...TECHNOLOGY.html

 

m993_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_15
 

"The standardised parts produced by Spark Racing Technology consist of the tubular steel frame, suspension and dampers, braking and steering system - as well as crash structure and roll cage. The components open for development are focussed on the motor and inverter and select areas of exterior bodywork, such as the engine cover, side skirt, lights and front and rear bumpers."



#90 Ben1445

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:23

Potential entrants?

"Andretti Autosport, the ABT organization and a team fronted by reigning ABB FIA Formula E champion Jean-Eric Vergne have expressed formal interest in securing entry slots. So far, several manufacturers have expressed interest in the series which is aiming to kick off in January 2021."

Interestingly Andretti and ABT being two of the early adopters of Formula E, before their entries were partnered up with BMW and Audi... 



#91 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:27

Two bits of news:

 

Door open for Hydrogen in XE's future

https://www.autospor...-offroad-series

 

Williams Advanced Engineering to supply the batteries

https://www.autospor...r-first-seasons

 

Bit of a summary of where XE is:

- Had an official launch event on the paddock ship

- Environmentalists David de Rothschild and director Fisher Stephens are both on board

- Racing in locations dmaaged by human activity and climate change

- Races packaged, sold and broadcast non-live in a 'docu-sport' format

- Chassis by Spark Racing Technologies

- Battery by Williams Advanced Engineering

- Tyres by Continental

- Tubular steel frame with silhoutte bodywork

- 54 kWh, 400kW powertrain

- Had talks with FIA, nothing firmed up - Jean Todt 'doesn't quite get it yet'

 

And a personal thought: I have absolutely no idea if any of this is going to work!



#92 Vielleicht

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 14:04

Venturi Automobiles, of FE fame, have become the first team to sign up for Extreme E

https://www.extreme-...-EXTREME-E.html



#93 Ben1445

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 19:32

This appeared a week or so ago but as of yet I've seen no other reference to a u-turn on the non-live broadcasting thing? I was waiting for something more than a single, unreferenced tweet... 

 

Screenshot-2019-06-05-at-20-30-17.png



#94 Vielleicht

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 13:35

Haven't seen anything on the broadcast format front but..

 

Extreme E's Instagram is showing car build teasers:

 

Screenshot-2019-06-10-at-14-33-39.png

Screenshot-2019-06-10-at-14-35-10.png



#95 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 06:15

New logo and a new website

https://www.extreme-e.com/

mE459-5T_400x400.jpg

 

3 days until the car launch for Goodwood



#96 Vielleicht

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:10

We have a car.

 

ExtremeECar1.jpg



#97 Vielleicht

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 10:33

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D-tFe2ZWsAAoBq8.jpg



#98 phrank

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:16

I too thought the Peugeot Dakar Buggy was good looking



#99 Ben1445

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 11:36

It does look very generic. Modern/near future looking light fittings but other than that...just a regular Dakar Raid tubular frame and carbon bodywork. But it's electric. 

 

Nice to see Williams getting back in on the race battery supply business after McLaren took the FE contract. 

 

400kW (550hp) though, pretty beefy. 



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#100 Tsarwash

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 12:11

 

We already have extreme yacht races where countries are morally bound to rescue some knob whose boat has fallen over, adding to their long suffering taxpayer's national debt.

If one of the British drivers get injured at Silverstone next week, then the NHS are morally bound to treat and care for them, adding to our long suffering taxpayers national debt. In the context of motorsports, that argument is baseless.