76 replies to this topic

[aportinga]

Took a look at the KIA Stinger yesterday - I own a truck and am interested in getting something new and fun (have not had a new car in years).

 

Anyhow - KIA seems to be making well designed cars and there has been a complete lack of show from Asia in F1 (yes that's a jab at Honda).

 

I would think a successful KIA venture into F1 would do wonders for marketing

 

Stinger

[messy]

I used to have a Kia Ceed. It was brown. It depressed me so much I contemplated abandoning it somewhere but someone actually paid money for the thing. 

[AustinF1]

The Stinger is a very nice car, but I think we'd sooner see their parent company Hyundai, or the premium brand Genesis in F1 before Kia. But who knows. 

 

BTW re: the Stinger, I'm waiting for the Genesis version - the G70. Beautiful car, & that group has been doing great things in road cars.

 

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2018 - 14:37.

[PayasYouRace]

Just edited the thread title so it doesn't look like "killed in action". Kia isn't an acronym, it's just their name.

[NixxxoN]

I'd say Hyundai/Kia have a long long way to go before they can think of competing in F1. They can make decent cheap/affordable cars and common cars for daily driving, but they are nowhere when it comes to performance and sports cars...

I head they made a massive hiring of german engineers to help them up their game, but still...

Edited by NixxxoN, 28 August 2018 - 14:45.

[B3ndy]

I'm sure I've read (somewhere, maybe Joe S) that there have been Fiat Chrysler / Hyundai discussions in the past. It makes complete sense for manufacturers to pool resources, of course, Hyundai owns 40% of KIA.

 

So following this train of thought through to an unnatural conclusion, how about a KIA F1 team with a Ferrari powerplant in it?

 

Personally, I'm still waiting for the VW hype train to kick back into action, its been a few weeks without a new rumour.

[MadYarpen]

They are in WRC with Hyundai for marketing purposes...

 

Car looks great though.

[AustinF1]

I don't think F1 would necessarily be the right fit for Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, but FYI they're making great cars now and have been for a while.

 

Their customer satisfaction ratings are through the roof. Every time I speak to an owner of a Hyundai or esp a Genesis, they just rave about the quality of the car and the company's customer service. If you ever get to sit in or drive a Genesis, I think many would be shocked at how nice they are, how luxurious they are, the interior features, the built and fit quality, etc. They're really doing amazing work. If I end up getting a sedan as my next ride, I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Genesis G70. They also have an upcoming luxury crossover that looks fantastic.

[Dennista]

Not the right fit for F1.

 

We need cosworth back. Also Peugeot.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't see Kia's place in the road car market being any different from Renault's. But I don't think F1 is particularly attractive at the moment.

[PlatenGlass]

Kia Ora could enter a team and they might be a rival for Red Bull.

[AustinF1]

I don't see Kia's place in the road car market being any different from Renault's. But I don't think F1 is particularly attractive at the moment.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say when I said F1 may not be a good fit for the Hyundai group. I don't think it's a good fit for many manufacturers any more. But then, who knows. Maybe they would be if they'd ever announce the 2021 engine formula.

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2018 - 15:23.

[Alfisti]

Hyundai group cars still feel tinny and cheap, they just do. Not been in a Stinger or a G series but a run of the mill Elantra or accent or Santa Fe is chintzy. 

[F1matt]

Why would any manufacturer enter F1? They are much better off entering FE. 

[AustinF1]

Hyundai group cars still feel tinny and cheap, they just do. Not been in a Stinger or a G series but a run of the mill Elantra or accent or Santa Fe is chintzy. 

Yeah, go try a Genesis. Even the Stinger is very solidly built and well done. Very nice interior.

[NixxxoN]

Why would any manufacturer enter F1? They are much better off entering FE. 

 

Yep, in fact F1 is monopolized by Ferrari and Merc, after being F1 fan almost all my life, for the first time I'm consdering stopping watching until the next heavy engine reg changes because it looks depressingly predictable and its just a 2 car championship (literally 2 cars, HAM and VET ones)

[eibyyz]

Why would any manufacturer enter F1? They are much better off entering FE. 

https://goo.gl/images/su8MNJ

[maximilian]

Kia is selling so many cars, they don't need F1 - it's not good marketing value return on investment, in comparison to other avenues.  I expected a Chinese maker looking to break into western markets to enter sooner or later, but now looks like that's not happening, either.

Edited by maximilian, 28 August 2018 - 15:52.

[midgrid]

Kia are too busy not entering the BTCC to enter F1.

[MikeV1987]

A guy at my work has a Stinger GT, that car is faaast. I cannot imagine KIA or Hyundai being interested in F1 though.

[ArrowsLivery]

Why would any manufacturer enter F1? They are much better off entering FE.

If they want brand awareness and marketing possibilities why would they enter fe?

[Montie]

There were a rumor in the early 2000’s that Hyundai was actively looking to enter F1 as an engine supplier. An interesting prospect, doubt it would ever happen, but I would welcome it.

[Fastcake]

The Stinger is a very nice car, but I think we'd sooner see their parent company Hyundai, or the premium brand Genesis in F1 before Kia. But who knows. 

 

BTW re: the Stinger, I'm waiting for the Genesis version - the G70. Beautiful car, & that group has been doing great things in road cars.

 

Well, this thread has just taught me there's a car brand called Genesis. Advertising in Formula One is already paying dividends.

[mclarensmps]

I was in the market for a Stinger, but decided to go another route. It's a lovely, well built, great driving car. 

Unfortunately the brand is still suffering terrible rep from its previous incarnation.

I'd like to see the Hyundai group participate more in motorsport outside of WRC or Rallycross

[SenorSjon]

That car isn't for Europe? We only get the cheap models here.

[loki]

For what they'd spend on building a team they'd be able to get much better marketing and better penetration for a whole lot less money using other means.  Formula One offers poor return on investment for most.  It's the same reason Ford, GM and Toyota aren't involved.

[loki]

I'm sure I've read (somewhere, maybe Joe S) that there have been Fiat Chrysler / Hyundai discussions in the past. It makes complete sense for manufacturers to pool resources, of course, Hyundai owns 40% of KIA.

 

So following this train of thought through to an unnatural conclusion, how about a KIA F1 team with a Ferrari powerplant in it?

 

Personally, I'm still waiting for the VW hype train to kick back into action, its been a few weeks without a new rumour.

The rumor in the auto world was Hyundai buying FCA in total (IOW taking them over) but it wouldn't include Ferrari as it's spun out separately.   Hyundai denied it a couple of months ago and there hasn't been much since the denial.

[Ben1445]

If they want brand awareness and marketing possibilities why would they enter fe?

Your sometimes irrational distain for FE is well documented. 

[Muppetmad]

Why not Sato?

 

Oh, whoops, wrong thread...

[Sterzo]

For what they'd spend on building a team they'd be able to get much better marketing and better penetration for a whole lot less money using other means.  Formula One offers poor return on investment for most.  It's the same reason Ford, GM and Toyota aren't involved.

Difficult to argue with this. It's always been a poor investment for manufacturers, a nonsensical expenditure for sponsors, and a ludicrous waste of family money trying to make it as a driver. But still they come and, we hope, always will.

[BRG]

I'd like to see the Hyundai group participate more in motorsport outside of WRC or Rallycross

Hyundai are dominating the World TCR Cup, holding first and second places in the team standings.  Their R5 rally cars are becoming more and more prevalent.  Neuville won the 2018 Ypres Rally in a R5 Hyundai.  Kia...not so much.

[pacificquay]

I tend to think of Kia and Hyundai as cars bought by people who read “Which?” magazine to determine their vehicle choice.

The 7 year warranty is clearly a good draw for certain punters but they are not a brand I would have on my driveway.

[Stumpy29]

Are Korean's that big on racing? I think a company's culture and nationality plays a big role in building a commitment to an expensive marketing effort like F1.

[ArnageWRC]

The lack of awareness of the other motorsport categories on this forum never ceases to amaze me. A Korean manufacturer leads the WRC - and is also the fastest car in the WTCR.  

[kraduk]

Kia are too busy not entering the BTCC to enter F1.

 

Like Lewis is with Croydon?

[loki]

I think it's more realistic to see a Kia in WRX or drifting.  Around here many of the tuner car kids have Kias because they can't afford Hondas or Toyotas.  They are pretty inexpensive, you can still mod them to a degree.  The young set coming up seems to be more rally cross and drifting and perhaps solo/autocross than wheel to wheel racing.  It's the Fast and Furious culture.

[malibu]

i expect much more from  Chinese firms, but not in the close futur as the country chosen the electric mobility. Huge market, extremely advanced in batteries, IA, autonomous driving, impressive development, . They also have a lot of brands. Not counting old schools brands like geely or SAIC, here are some who could play a role, maybe in wec first (not to forget NIO is FE world champion)

 

 

 

 

Edited by malibu, 29 August 2018 - 00:23.

[Tsarwash]

The Stinger is a very nice car, but I think we'd sooner see their parent company Hyundai, or the premium brand Genesis in F1 before Kia. But who knows. 

 

BTW re: the Stinger, I'm waiting for the Genesis version - the G70. Beautiful car, & that group has been doing great things in road cars.

 

 

We all have different standards of course, (and a good thing too), but I find that car far from beautiful. 

[Tsarwash]

Also, wiki says that Kia sold 3.3 million cars in 2015. Let's assume that they entered F1 in a big, Toyota style fashion and spent 330 million pounds per year on entry, that would mean that every vehicle that they sold would cost at least a hundred pounds more, just to cover the cost of the F1 entry, assuming absolute basic economics. (but actually if would probably put up to a thousand pounds on the cost of every vehicle.) Would that be worth it ? 

[BalanceUT]

I don't think F1 would necessarily be the right fit for Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, but FYI they're making great cars now and have been for a while.

 

Their customer satisfaction ratings are through the roof. Every time I speak to an owner of a Hyundai or esp a Genesis, they just rave about the quality of the car and the company's customer service. If you ever get to sit in or drive a Genesis, I think many would be shocked at how nice they are, how luxurious they are, the interior features, the built and fit quality, etc. They're really doing amazing work. If I end up getting a sedan as my next ride, I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Genesis G70. They also have an upcoming luxury crossover that looks fantastic.

We had a Hyundai Santa Fe (the previous smaller version) and drove it literally into the ground. They were very popular in this snowy mountainous area with good 4wd capabilities, yet well mannered on the highway. After the Santa Fe we bought a Hyundai Sonata (2011). Nice car, good competition for the highly competitive midsize sedan market (e.g., Toyota Camry) and great value for $$ compared to others. Only problem is a bit of road noise and when it rains hard it does sound 'tinny' on the roof as another commenter says. But, it has otherwise never felt tinny or cheap to me. I was just commenting today as we were leaving for work that I still like the car, maybe my favorite car I've ever had after my Honda CRX Si. 

 

The best thing about Hyundai is they stand behind their stuff and are excellent with warranty and recall management. The engines used in this model had a major problem. Worked great until suddenly it would seize due to a bearing aging prematurely and shattering. Happened to our car at about 80K miles and they replaced the engine free of charge. So, we now have a near 100K mile car with a 20K mile engine in it. Probably will keep it another 5 years. 

[loki]

Also, wiki says that Kia sold 3.3 million cars in 2015. Let's assume that they entered F1 in a big, Toyota style fashion and spent 330 million pounds per year on entry, that would mean that every vehicle that they sold would cost at least a hundred pounds more, just to cover the cost of the F1 entry, assuming absolute basic economics. (but actually if would probably put up to a thousand pounds on the cost of every vehicle.) Would that be worth it ? 

Given the margins reported by some media outlets for auto manufacturers if you sell a $20k car with a 25% margin you'd need to sell another 100,000 cars just to break even on a $500 mil investment.   You wouldn't want to do it just to break even but sell enough cars so you not only cover the marketing but make more.  Doesn't seem like a good return on investment particularly for a market that likely doesn't watch or follow F1.

[Burai]

The lack of awareness of the other motorsport categories on this forum never ceases to amaze me. A Korean manufacturer leads the WRC - and is also the fastest car in the WTCR.  

 

Yup. Hyundai Motorsport was only established in 2012 and their N performance brand is new this year. Getting the i20 WRC and i30 N TCR out there and winning is a far better investment than single seaters or prototypes at this point.

[RA2]

or they could sell 3.3 million caps and jackets to fund the team

[Christophe77]

Why would any manufacturer enter F1? They are much better off entering FE. 

 

I agree. I don't think any manufacturer now has any interest in entering F1. Just look at Honda. Which company has the patience to wait 4 years for somewhat decent results? And it's just not PC anymore. Having said that, Merc is very much enjoying an uplift in brand awareness and image thanks to F1. But you'll have to dominate the sport for many years, like the silver arrows did, to get any trickle down effect imo. Also look at Renault. Have they benefited at all from F1?

[Talisman]

Given the margins reported by some media outlets for auto manufacturers if you sell a $20k car with a 25% margin you'd need to sell another 100,000 cars just to break even on a $500 mil investment.   You wouldn't want to do it just to break even but sell enough cars so you not only cover the marketing but make more.  Doesn't seem like a good return on investment particularly for a market that likely doesn't watch or follow F1.

 

You'd be extremely lucky to make a 25% margin on any car.  For Kia you're probably talking about 4-5% which is average for the industry.

 

The rules aren't attractive for new manufacturers, they are expensive and require expertise that isn't widely available.  People talk about Honda but that company has a board that is infatuated in F1 relative to the industry norm.  Companies (and therefore management) that have little positive experience of the sport simply won't be interested.

[paipa]

That car isn't for Europe? We only get the cheap models here.

They do sell the Stinger in Europe. I recently bought a Ceed and saw a bunch of them at the dealership. I salivated so hard that I will definitely go back and ask for a test drive, pretending I can afford one.

[aportinga]

Lots of quality commercials for Hyundai during the Bears game... Decent sales, better quality cars - getting into new markets (Stinger)... Really what's next?

 

Why not F1?

[aportinga]

Are Korean's that big on racing? I think a company's culture and nationality plays a big role in building a commitment to an expensive marketing effort like F1.

 

We're the Finns?

 

I mean hell - they don't even have a GP after years of drivers with good success in the sport.

[pdac]

Lots of quality commercials for Hyundai during the Bears game... Decent sales, better quality cars - getting into new markets (Stinger)... Really what's next?

 

Why not F1?

 

What extra does it bring them?

[7MGTEsup]

I'd say Hyundai/Kia have a long long way to go before they can think of competing in F1. They can make decent cheap/affordable cars and common cars for daily driving, but they are nowhere when it comes to performance and sports cars...

I head they made a massive hiring of german engineers to help them up their game, but still...

 

What performance/sports cars did Honda make in 1983?