93 replies to this topic

[aydincil]

I have been following F1 for a long time, but I have never, not even once bought anything because I've seen an ad for it on an F1 car. Maybe the fact that I'm not a smoker plays an effect on this, but I haven't felt the urge to buy anything because it's name writes on Schumacher's helmet. I wonder how it is for others. Do you feel inclined to use products that advertise on F1?

[The Swerve]

F1 sponsorship is more abour brand awareness than actually trying to sell you a product.

For example, I had never heard of Luckies before BAR used them on the car last season. Now I know they are a cigarette brand. If I smoked and had to choose between two brands that I hadn't tried before I would probably go for the Luckies. No particular reason - just brand familiarity.

[The Swerve]

Another example - when I bought my own race overalls I had no idea what brand was good, they all looked and seemed as good as each other. I took a look in Autosport, noticed Ferrari use OMP race suits and went for that rather than another brand that I hadn't heard of.

I'm an ad-man's dream I am.

[Ali_G]

Swerve: But just look at other brands on it.

BAT: I have never seen a brand of fags called BAT. Why don't they advertise under Rothmans or Winfield.

Magnetti Marelli: Why would a consumer need to buy bulk Electronics ?

Tim: Who or what is Tim ?????

Petronas: I still have never seen a Petronas Petrol Station.

For these and a lot of other companies it just doesn't make sense for them to Advertise teh way they do.

There is no way that they should justify the spending that they are doing.

Although you see Marlboro. They surely over the years have picked up smokers. THe old Mac was the most identifyable F1 car livery ever.

Niall

[The Swerve]

Brands like Petronas like to be associated with a high tech racing industry like F1 for the kudos that it gives them.

[Ali_G]

Although for one company is particular F1 has been the best advertising possible.

Without F1 Ferrari probabley wouldn't have been seen as the greatest car makers in the world.

Ferrari will never pull out of F1. That would be economic suicide.

Niall

[BlackGhost]

Originally posted by Ali_G

Without F1 Ferrari probabley wouldn't have been seen as the greatest car makers in the world.

Ferrari will never pull out of F1. That would be economic suicide.

Niall

I'm not sure I agree with this comment. Porsche is not involved in F1 and still sells cars.

I think Ferrari succeeds in selling cars because they are beautifull machines, it still would succeed in selling them without F1 but maybe not as many.

As for advertising, it works allright but it has to be part of a global strategy which must also take into account other issues such as distribution, pricing and the product itself.

The best example is Coke, we are talking water and sugar here and yet look at the marketing machine that company is.

[Ross Stonefeld]

BAT isnt a brand, BAT is the company that owns the brands. Like Phillip Morriss owns Marlboro.

I beleive TIM is Italian Telecom


Swerve, please tell me you're taking us for a ride claiming you'd never heard of Lucky Strike. Arent you based in the US?

[The Swerve]

No I'm not.

I'm based in the UK, and I've never seen them sold here. Admittedly I don't smoke but they don't seem to be a brand that I've ever seen anyone smoke here.

Why did you think I was American?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I....dont know


I thought you were down in Georgia or something

Glad you're not, I was gonna come back with the Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco song

[The Swerve]

'Lucky' escape then?;)

[BlackCat]

as a long-time smoker i've given a try to most of the marques advertised - never seen 555 or mild seven around.
so: west, rothmans, lucky strike
and: jps, b&h , gitanes - none of those marketed here any more

as i like to build my own computers lego-like myself, ads of compaq and acer are quite wasted on me.

but, as a positive example: when i had to buy a fridge, i chose candy. it's about two years and still works...

[ZZMS]

what about schubert (sp?) helms MS and RS are currently using? I'm sure their sales are up... I'm not sure about Bell though.

[magic]

it works.
the fastest way to get your brand globally recognized.

f1 is the biggest thing after the once-in-four-years olympics and non-smoking football wc's.
call marlboro, luckies, west, benson&hedges, mild seven etcetc for more info.

[Ross Stonefeld]

yeah but tobacco is slightly different. You dont really have to advertise the pros of the product, just the name. Given Compaq vs Acer, I would expect something in an ad to tell me why one is better than the other, something F1 cant really do

[george baird]

Yes, I avoid buying any products on Ferrari cars.

[Ali_G]

Ross: that is my point.

How will calling a team after BAT help sales of products not called BAT:

it just doen't make sense.

BAT would have been much better off staying with Williams.

Niall

[Ross Stonefeld]

uhh....

there are no BAT stickers on the BARs. Lucky Strike and 555 stickers are on the BAR, which are BAT brands. So i dont know what you are talking about

[cygnus]

I too wondered if these businesses are doing well as a result of sponsering their name on a car. Obviously they keep coming back year after year, so they must be seeing a positive outcome to paying for livery space ... in marketing, the name of a company that you see for 58laps works its way into your subconscious .. and somehow you'll be at a store and youll be drawn to a Compaq computer, or Tic Tac's.

Btw, I don't think Magnetti Marelli are paying for sponsership, I think Ferrari just puts their name on because their electronics are made by them (they seem to have a great relationship) . I'm sure the Marelli engineers get paid rather well.

[Williams]

Ferrari will never pull out of F1. That would be economic suicide.

That would be a murder-suicide 'cause F1 would go down the tubes the very next day.

Labbat's makes a fine product...;) but many of the brands in F1 are European-based, so we don't always see them here in Canada.

[Romulus]

Mild Seven is an Japaneese brand owned by Japan Tobacco.
Last i heard it was one of the most sold brands over in Asia.

Lucky Strike is a well known brand atleast where I come from (Sweden) however when i think of Lucky Strike i don't associate them with F1 but with the Vietnam War. I think many of u have seen the picture of a soldier walking in the djungle with a package of Lucky Strikes attached to the helmet.
I think they must have intended it to be a "war" cigarette because of the name itself "lucky strike!!" and that the logo itself is a bulls eye.

I don't know if Petronas has gas stations but I do know that they own the largest buildings in the world (Petronas twin towers in Kuala-Lumpu.

Ever since Ralf won his first gp Compaq has been advertising their butts of showing Williams cars and compaq personel working together.

I think any company regarless of what they manufaure will profit by advertising in F1. It gives them class and they can invite important customers to F1 events and that can't be bad...

[schumigal]

Romulus, Petronas has gas station all over Malaysia. If u are ever in M'sia, the drive from the airport to your hotel, you would probably come across several Petronas stations.

Advertising does work, and like some have said, if ur buying an unfamiliar product, u always go for brands u have heard of. Better than buying blindly i guess.

[Jon Allen]

Perhaps some non-Americans might tell us if it's irritating to be bombarded with brands you are overly familiar with when watching F1 races. As an American, a small part of the exotic allure of F1 for me is the esoteric sponsorship by producers of products and services I'm completely unfamiliar with. Chello? Rothmans? West? Of course I know Marlboro, etc., but you get the idea.

Perhaps some Europeans/South Americans/Asians find CART fascinating because of the exotic branding: Menard's (innocuous home furnishings chain), Target (low-budget discount superstore), etc. That is actually (a minor) reason I find CART hard to take - advertising overkill for stupid mainstream consumer crap that we are inundated with everyday. Being unfamiliar with many non-American sponsors perhaps gives F1, to Americans, an air of style and sophistication that is unjustified.

Sorry, just late-night ramblings.

[MN]

I had very same question myself and posted a poll last year.

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&threadid=7166

[baddog]

Originally posted by Jon Allen

Perhaps some Europeans/South Americans/Asians find CART fascinating because of the exotic branding: Menard's (innocuous home furnishings chain), Target (low-budget discount superstore), etc.

Im afraid even to us yurpeens it all just comes across a mainstream cheap-end consumer crap (perhaps too many american movies and tv shows everywhere)... my GF thought it was real funny that a primary sponsor was KMart, it just sounds so tacky. in general f1 gives the appearance of having a more sophisticated class of sponsors. Probably not true but it comes across that way. (ferraris bizzarre tictac sponsorship aside!)

Shaun

[Rene]

When I was a kid, watching Senna and Prost racing the Marlboro branded Mclaren, I had no idea what Marlboro was (since its not sold in Canada), so I think that the advertisements did not have an influence on me as a child...

[prettyface]

Originally posted by BlackGhost


I'm not sure I agree with this comment. Porsche is not involved in F1 and still sells cars.

I think Ferrari succeeds in selling cars because they are beautifull machines, it still would succeed in selling them without F1 but maybe not as many.

Porsche doesn' t need F1, they have Le Mans, which is cheaper. They give it a shot whenever they feel like needing a "mystique boost".
But hey, I agree. Both Ferrari and Porsche will continue doing well without needing to compete ever again. They have acquired so much prestige by now that it could last them forever. I think it would be something similar to Bugatti or Jaguar, two makes that haven' t won races for decades, yet they never lost their sporting prestige. Jaguar is still selling cars on the strenght of a bunch of Le Mans races in the 50's.

The funny thing is, success in F1 is supposed to help selling cars and boost prestige. Maybe Ferrari needs F1 to help sell those extra 200 cars and prevent Lamborghini from kicking their ass performance-wise; but what the hell are Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar and more recently Toyota doing in F1 these days? They' re all selling like crazy. If anything, they risk LOSING prestige!

Getting back on topic, I bought a Tag-Heuer watch because of F1.

[Dunder]

As I understand the West deal deal with McLaren cost them in the region of GBP 20 million.

Can you imagine what it would cost them to have raised their brand awareness from Chile to China and from Austria to Australia using more 'traditional' advertising methods?

F1 advertising works.

[Melbourne Park]

Just to correct some of you about Ferrari having to compete to sell cars, the reverse was the case.

Enzo sold road cars so that he could race. He did not car much at all about the road cars, except for the money that facilitated his race cars.

I recall that when Enzo "sold" Ferrari for $1 to Agnelli's Fiat, the deal was that Fiat would continue with the race program. I guess that that promise has so far been kept. Also while the promise was being kept, the publicity enabled the road cars to be sold. And then Fiat had the funds to make them even - dare I say it - reliable.

Now Mercedes have bought into McLaren with the purpose of have McLaren build a mercedes road car. I wonder whether the McLaren name will be on the car. I can't help but wonder how long will the McLaren name survive.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Ali_G
BAT: I have never seen a brand of fags called BAT. Why don't they advertise under Rothmans or Winfield.

They sponsor Jordan using their Benson&Hedges brand.

[neoplanet]

Do these sponsers get any type of tax break for this??

[Billy]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
I recall that when Enzo "sold" Ferrari for $1 to Agnelli's Fiat ...

I have read the price was 7 billion lire (about 11 million dollars), for which Fiat received 40 percent of Ferrari. Enzo Ferrari retained 49 percent, to be given to Fiat upon his death. His son Piero Lardi got 10 percent, and Pinin Farina got 1 percent.

[The Kanisteri]

I use to sniff Loctite-glue because McLaren.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Billy

I have read the price was 7 billion lire (about 11 million dollars), for which Fiat received 40 percent of Ferrari. Enzo Ferrari retained 49 percent, to be given to Fiat upon his death. His son Piero Lardi got 10 percent, and Pinin Farina got 1 percent.

Billy, you might be right, but I did read at the time $1. But the real question would be, for what? There are probably several companies tied up, and I certainly expect seperate companies for the GP team as distinct from the road cars. The balancing of the books, as to marketing and services, would no doubt be intriguing.

However what ever in total happened, it seems to have been quite honorable.

Imagine when VW bought Rolls Royce, and later found out BMW that BMW after that deal, bought the Rolls name. Some sad proof of how times change, or perhaps some fine evidence that Fiat did the honorable thing for Enzo's company and family.

[arcwulf7]

Kind of a relative equation. No doubt advertising works on these cars. But does it work to the extent that they are paying for it, say 75 million for the side pod of front running team. Tobacco is so limited in their ability to advertise now, that it might be any major venue where they can make their name known will have a big effect, since it has little else to compete with, and might be especially impressionable in the huge Eastern markets. Automobile companies of course claim technological as well as marketing reasons for participation, but you'd have to think BMW's reputation hasn't been hurt at all by its emerging premier engine.

But Compaq, where most people buy PC's based on consumer reports, or recommendations from your office computer staff, or just the info the sales staff at a computer retailer gives you, or, gas stations where the buying decision is almost exclusively proximity and price -- that might be less effective. You can't escape though, that anything which will allow corporate executives to cruise around the paddock, breathe the same air as the rare f1 flock, be wined and dined by famous owners and drivers -- then they'll find some way to crunch out some rationalization for it that makes perfect sense.

[MattFoster]

I only buy F1 advertised goods ;)

[Ali_G]

Ross, I think the general name of the team is where they are trying to advertise. BAR BAT.

Niall

[100cc]

Tim: Who or what is Tim ?????

I think its telecom italia something.

Petronas: I still have never seen a Petronas Petrol Station.
[/B]

I see a few every single day. Stopped at one today near sepang.

[Jon Allen]

Originally posted by baddog


Im afraid even to us yurpeens it all just comes across a mainstream cheap-end consumer crap (perhaps too many american movies and tv shows everywhere)... my GF thought it was real funny that a primary sponsor was KMart, it just sounds so tacky. in general f1 gives the appearance of having a more sophisticated class of sponsors. Probably not true but it comes across that way. (ferraris bizzarre tictac sponsorship aside!)

Shaun

Speaking of which, I just read a Senna biography, and what did I see - lo and behold, the K-Mart Logo on the rear wing endplate of his McLaren! That was kind of shocking.

[athens]

Ref. the K-Mart advertising on Senna's car. I assume this was in 1993, when Andretti drove for McLaren, albeit briefly. I don't quite know what they hoped to achieve, advertising in F!, as K-Mart have no presence in Europe, and back in 1993, the US fanbase of F1 in the States would have been even smaller than it is now.

Personally, I've never bought any product because I saw it pasted on a sidepod. In fact, my choice of car would suggest that I don't pay any attention to what happens in F1. I drive a Peugeot, despite having seen their F1 engines exploding attractively for the last few years.

Oh, one last thing. The comment about Jaguar trading on past glories to sell cars now; sadly, I suspect that a lot of potential or actual Jaguar owners are singularly unaware that Le Mans was won on several occassions by Jaguar's cars. Will Formula One serve them any better?

[MP4/?]

Really I always try to fill up my tank in a Mobil gas station because of McLaren... Also I always try to use F1 advertising products...

[schumigal]

I wish i am that patriotic, unfortunately i fill at the best price or lowest price i can get. Usually it's at Shell cos the route i used to get around has BP and Shell mostly. Just happens that Shell is more convenient. I hardly see Mobil around in Perth. But if there is mobil and it has the lowest price, i wouldn;t hesistate pumping at their station.

[MP4/?]

Schumigal:

I'm in Florida, here are Shell, Mobil, BP, Texaco... I think every petrol brand that is involved in F1 is here...

[BlackGhost]

Originally posted by schumigal
I wish i am that patriotic, unfortunately i fill at the best price or lowest price i can get. Usually it's at Shell cos the route i used to get around has BP and Shell mostly. Just happens that Shell is more convenient. I hardly see Mobil around in Perth. But if there is mobil and it has the lowest price, i wouldn;t hesistate pumping at their station.

I always try to gaz up at a Shell.

Tim means Telephono Italiano mobile, I think it is the cel phone company in Italy.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by BlackGhost
Tim means Telephono Italiano mobile, I think it is the cel phone company in Italy.

More precisely Telecom Italia Mobile, and it is one of the cell phone companies in Italy.

[obi-one]

I heard that Ferrari made more money off its logo sales (shirts, hats, flags, etc.) then they do selling cars. I am sure that if they pulled out of F1, Ferrari logo sales would plunge and not their car sales.

[Whatever]

Presumably the engine manufacturers spend the most money. The top engine manufacturers obviously get a lot of positive advertising, but I wonder how long Ford will support Jaguar's efforts, for instance. I'd say the Jaguar F1 team is having a negative effect on the brand as they come across like clowns every second weekend. As the trend appears to be for more manufacturers to get involved and they all can't win, the outcome will be interesting.

Personally I get affected by the technology providers to F1. I'm running Bridgestones, I was considering BBS or OZ alloy wheels, I like BMWs, etc, etc. Of course most of these brand allegiances come from the fact that they are superior products, but the F1 affiliation definitely helps to strengthen the brands. Perhaps it is even a necessity for these brands to be involved in F1 to show that they can cut it in the pinnacle of motor sports.

[Nasty McBastard]

all i know is ive been a smoker for 10 years and the only time ive bought a pack of marlboro was coz there wasnt anything else there. never tryed camel or JPS or anything else either. and after the 2 years i quit smoking...it wasnt f1 that made me start again.

but as for actuall car parts or whatever....i have been swayed at times to buy certain sparkplugs, petrol, tyres...whatever because i knew certain drivers/teams used em

[Gary Grant]

I would never have heard of Finlandia vodka if it wasn't for McLaren, let alone specifically requested it in a St Andrews off-licence.
Now its my favourite - looks like more of us fall 4 the advertising than you might think.

[Melbourne Park]

Marketing's revenue generation side of marketing goals (compared to public relations, good corporate citizen etc etc) occurs when buying. If your buying something, it you've heard of it, and you like it, the price is similar, you are more likely to buy the brand you've heard of than an unknown brand. Big companies can divide up large marketing budgets so that the price per unit is low. This economy of scale benefit sees some expensive projects like F1, but if such players did not do so, they would be overtaken by smaller companies.

F1 pays otherwise the big companies would not do it.