44 replies to this topic

[SJ Lambert]

What a sensational vehicle!!!


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[StanBarrett2]

Cool Big Banger stuff !!!  Those intake trumpets !

 

Piece out of Autosport August 23rd 1968

 

macoran

[StanBarrett2]

Brian Hatton M8A cutaway out of Sports Car Graphic November 1968

macoran

[StanBarrett2]

I had seen a coloured version on the internet somewhere, so decided to get the crayons out and do a copy of Mati Palks's cutaway for myself 

macoran

[cpbell]

Magnesium sheeting around the fuel tanks?  Sounds like a good idea!

[David Lawson]

I saw the M8A for the first time at The Racing Car Show at Olympia in January 1969.

 

 

I took this picture, I thought at the time I was being arty pharty but looking back I realise I had no future as a photographer.

 

David

[bradbury west]

Love the postings. Thanks
Roger Lund

[Michael Ferner]

I took this picture, I thought at the time I was being arty pharty but looking back I realise I had no future as a photographer.

Quite. The bird is out of focus.

[Lee Nicolle]

And a few more years of development made the ultimate big Sporty. And unfortunatly killed Bruce.

[Lee Nicolle]

Quite. The bird is out of focus.

Birds!

[Terry Walker]

I saw one at Beaulieu years ago, Denny Hulme's I think, and I was astounded at how tiny it was.  Just a humungous engine with a space in front for the driver, and four wheels. It must have been terrifying (and exhilarating) to drive. A 7-litre go-kart.  (By contrast I had a look at Ricciardo's Red Bull F1 car at the Western Australian Motor Museum the other day, and it is surprisingly large. Much bigger than say a Lotus 49, due no doubt to the long wheelbase.)

[john aston]

I can still tell you where I was(between Castleford and Allerton Bywater in the  West Riding of Yorkshire.  on my homeward bound bus ) when I read Motor's excited appraisal of this car . The headline celebrated its 1000bhp/ton power to weight ratio , meaning it  packed  rather more in the trouser  department than any F1 car . Any Indy car too ? Not sure of power outputs then at the ..umm..Brickyard.     

Edited by john aston, 03 September 2018 - 06:36.

[Glengavel]

I saw one at Beaulieu years ago, Denny Hulme's I think, and I was astounded at how tiny it was.  Just a humungous engine with a space in front for the driver, and four wheels. It must have been terrifying (and exhilarating) to drive. A 7-litre go-kart.  (By contrast I had a look at Ricciardo's Red Bull F1 car at the Western Australian Motor Museum the other day, and it is surprisingly large. Much bigger than say a Lotus 49, due no doubt to the long wheelbase.)

I thought the same thing when I first saw a Porsche 917 in the flesh - it's shorter than a VW Golf, although lower and wider.

[GTMRacer]

I was lucky enough to see a lot of these in the Foulston era HSCC GT championship, Foulston himself, Ted Williams, Dave Franklin and the various giant killing Chevrons.

Unfortunately too young for when they were current, but boy oh boy, the NOISE!

[AJB]

I saw one at Beaulieu years ago, Denny Hulme's I think, and I was astounded at how tiny it was.  Just a humungous engine with a space in front for the driver, and four wheels. It must have been terrifying (and exhilarating) to drive. A 7-litre go-kart.  (By contrast I had a look at Ricciardo's Red Bull F1 car at the Western Australian Motor Museum the other day, and it is surprisingly large. Much bigger than say a Lotus 49, due no doubt to the long wheelbase.)

The wheelbase of the current F1 McLaren is over 4ft (1.25m) longer than the Lotus 49 (or McLaren M7a!).

[David Birchall]

When I bought my Lotus 23B it was fitted with a McLaren body--it had to be narrowed about a foot at least.

[JacnGille]

I thought the same thing when I first saw a Porsche 917 in the flesh - it's shorter than a VW Golf, although lower and wider.

A Williams FW07 for me.

[sabrejet]

Sublime to ridiculous in 17 steps: we started with Can-Am and ended with F1.

 

Back on topic, I too agree with the 917: it's a giant among race cars but tiny in the flesh. And your feet poke out the front. Brave men.

[MarkBisset]

Short article on the M8A James- some decent pics;

https://primotipo.co.../01/01/big-mac/

[2F-001]

The article linked above seems to have fallen for the hype that such cars of the period were enormous…

As pointed out by others, the original Can Am type cars were fairly compact. The references I have say that the aforementioned McLaren M8A has (within half an inch) the same length and wheelbase as a Mk1 Ford Escort and width no greater than many an FF1600. The 917K has a shorter wheelbase but greater length and (a little surprisingly, perhaps) width.

Many Can Am type cars - and the 917 too - tend to “look huge” because they are low and normally viewed from slightly above when their large, unbroken plan area of bodywork is more evident. You only have to look at the pics of 917s mixing it at close-quarters with 911s, 914s (or even the Trans Am style cars if at Daytona or Sebring) to see they are not exactly huge.

[PCC]

The article linked above seems to have fallen for the hype that such cars of the period were enormous…

They looked huge to me when I first saw them.

 

But then, I was seven years old...

[Odseybod]

Even the mighty Ferrari P4 wasn't that big ...

 

[StanBarrett2]

Just think of the GT40...................40 inches high 

 

macoran

[Bob Riebe]

Second road race, an amateur national event, I ever went to up at Donnybrooke, a gent had recent but older  Ferrari prototypes there , back when amateur national meet racers treated old race cars as old race cars, not something special.

I was truly amazed at how small that was, even though I had seen Ford GT40, Mk I and II at the State Fair.

The Ferrari seemed tiny. 

[Lee Nicolle]

The article linked above seems to have fallen for the hype that such cars of the period were enormous…

As pointed out by others, the original Can Am type cars were fairly compact. The references I have say that the aforementioned McLaren M8A has (within half an inch) the same length and wheelbase as a Mk1 Ford Escort and width no greater than many an FF1600. The 917K has a shorter wheelbase but greater length and (a little surprisingly, perhaps) width.

Many Can Am type cars - and the 917 too - tend to “look huge” because they are low and normally viewed from slightly above when their large, unbroken plan area of bodywork is more evident. You only have to look at the pics of 917s mixing it at close-quarters with 911s, 914s (or even the Trans Am style cars if at Daytona or Sebring) to see they are not exactly huge.

The wheelbase is similar to the Escort but the front and rear overhang is more. And the track about 8" wider. Multiplied by the Escorts 12x4" rims to the M8s 15x14" wide rims.  They are not large but not tiny either. And the later ones grew a bit longer as well. So a [then] 7 litre Escort!

Though having raced an XU1 Torana Chev Sports Sedan for a good while the 99" wheelbase was in reality a bit short. Though the Escort RS6000 and The Alfa GTV  Chev that were even shorter, though won quite a lot were actually quite twitchy things. And were both professionally built true race cars.  My opinion the ideal wheelbase would be around 105" . Longer is more stable but does not react as quick in the tighter stuff.

[2F-001]

Just think of the GT40...................40 inches high 
macoran

And the original 917, 1969 edition, was only a whisker over 36 inches high ( Source: Paul Frere, Porsche racing cars of the 70s )

Re. M8/Escort Mk1:
David Hodges ( Cars in Profile ) quotes M8A wheelbase/length as 94in/153in.
Escort Mk1 wheelbase/length 94.5in/154in + bumpers ( Source: Ford body tolerance chart )
( remember the M8A didn’t have the big overhanging rear wing and endplates ).

Edited by 2F-001, 05 September 2018 - 06:45.

[john aston]

The M8F Andy Newall drove at Silverstone in '16 was not exactly svelte , but many earlier Can Am cars I have seen are compact , and make horrors such as the oxymoron that is the current Bentley Continental GT3 look like a truck . And the legendary Shadow Mk1 makes even a Chevron B8 look a tad  lardy 

 

Biggest size shock was seeing a Force India and Red Bull from about 2007/8 close up at Donington Museum - they are HUGE .

[Lee Nicolle]

And the original 917, 1969 edition, was only a whisker over 36 inches high ( Source: Paul Frere, Porsche racing cars of the 70s )

Re. M8/Escort Mk1:
David Hodges ( Cars in Profile ) quotes M8A wheelbase/length as 94in/153in.
Escort Mk1 wheelbase/length 94.5in/154in + bumpers ( Source: Ford body tolerance chart )
( remember the M8A didn’t have the big overhanging rear wing and endplates ).

94,5" wheelbase. plus  4 ft more in over hang from the centre of the axle line. That is total front and rear.

Total car length  12 ft 9" or 153" so about the so probably around the same size as the Mk1 Escort. And a bit wider at 5ft 11".

Your base 1100 Escort was what 60 hp? so 10 times the power! And about 20 times the torque.

And describes quite a few Supercars on the roads these days. Though not the torque!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 05 September 2018 - 07:47.

[2F-001]

Even the bigger M8F is a bit deceptive, John. It's rather wider (by ten inches or more) than a current 911, but a good ten inches shorter (and half the weight, of course) same source as before.
I'm convinced it's partly the extra width, but mostly the fact we look down onto all that flattish bodywork, that gives an exaggerated impression of size.

Edited by 2F-001, 05 September 2018 - 08:28.

[Glengavel]

The M8F Andy Newall drove at Silverstone in '16 was not exactly svelte , but many earlier Can Am cars I have seen are compact , and make horrors such as the oxymoron that is the current Bentley Continental GT3 look like a truck . And the legendary Shadow Mk1 makes even a Chevron B8 look a tad  lardy 
 
Biggest size shock was seeing a Force India and Red Bull from about 2007/8 close up at Donington Museum - they are HUGE .

The Mercedes-Benz F1 car has about the same footprint as an M-B S-Class saloon. The wheelbase is 3.4m - that's twice the length of your average F1 driver's height!

[2F-001]

I recall that, no so long ago, several sources cited the Maserati MC12 as the longest racing car ever (not certain that was true, thinking of some other, very early machines), though it did seem to be very long indeed. But it is dwarfed by a current F1 machine.

Edited by 2F-001, 05 September 2018 - 09:56.

[Charlieman]

Biggest size shock was seeing a Force India and Red Bull from about 2007/8 close up at Donington Museum - they are HUGE .

When I visited the Donington Collection last year, the first major display (after some of KW's military vehicles) comprised the Williams F1 cars. I found myself walking up and down the display to compare an FW07x with later models. The FW07x, like all Lotus 79 inspired cars, seems pretty big compared to a Lotus 72. But the 2000 era Williams cars all looked bigger, and the complexity of the barge boards and aerodynamic vanes needs to be seen up close. Signage for the cars varied in quality but a few cars had explanations why the hip size had changed from the previous year etc. Sadly there was no McLaren M23 which always seemed a big car at the time -- even when it was within the maximum rear track limit  .

 

Returning to the original topic and comparisons with the Ford Escort. I've seen a variety of Zakspeed Escorts in the metal. By the Group 5 incarnation, they were pretty much the same width as a Can-Am McLaren and had a big overhang.

[2F-001]

And Zakspeed's Capris were even more extravagant in terms of 'extra' bodywork.

And while we're playing Top Trumps with the tape measure (well, I was, at least...), if Paul Frere is correct, the rather svelte and curvaceous-looking P4 is larger in all directions than the M8A.

Edited by 2F-001, 05 September 2018 - 12:44.

[Lee Nicolle]

Short article on the M8A James- some decent pics;

https://primotipo.co.../01/01/big-mac/

High tech transporter.

Very angry racecar!!

And being loaded in the street

[Duc-Man]

The Chaparral 2E has almost the same dimensions as the Vauxhall Astra Mk.II but the astra has 8" more wheelbase. Does that mean I can stuff a BB race engine in an Astra as mid-engine?

[Lee Nicolle]

The Chaparral 2E has almost the same dimensions as the Vauxhall Astra Mk.II but the astra has 8" more wheelbase. Does that mean I can stuff a BB race engine in an Astra as mid-engine?

And I was told my 99" wheelbase Torana XU1  was too short for Chevy power, and that was only a 350!

The Ricciardello Alfetta Chev must be terrible at about the same w/b as the McLaren.

[10kDA]

Apples to oranges to grapes to melons, but classicandmotorsport.de once posted side elevation overlays showing comparative sizes of a Porsche 917LH and a McLaren "F1" road car. 

 

[carvad]

What a sensational vehicle!!!


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Great cutaway by Andrew Drown, Thanks for sharing. Do you know/remember which magazine this drawing came from?

Edited by carvad, 13 June 2023 - 15:09.

[Nigel Beresford]

Motoring News

[carvad]

Motoring News

 

Thank you so much for clarification. Maybe you can provide the info about issue? Looks like it's a launch article from 1968...

[ibsenop]

Motoring News 1968-09-19

[Nigel Beresford]

I still have my hard copy from the time - I was 9 years old and this was one of my dad’s cars so of course it was super special. I attended tests at Silverstone (Denny testing alongside a JW Gulf GT40 driven by Hobbs and run by Ermanno Cuoghi) and Goodwood (can you imagine the heaven of Sussex on a glorious late summer day spent watching that thing pound around?) and carefully filed all of the MN cutaways in clear-pocket books which I still have.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 15 June 2023 - 11:36.

[carvad]

Motoring News 1968-09-19

 

Thank you so much for sharing!

[carvad]

McLaren M8A b/w line cutaway by David Kimble drawn in 2014

 

Edited by carvad, 15 June 2023 - 18:34.

[carvad]

Motoring News 1968-09-19

 

Did the Autosport magazine published the Mclaren M8A cutaway in a period article? I have never seen such cutaway...