1057 replies to this topic

[Kaiser]

Your immaturity and failure to take any personal responsibility is damaging your reputation and future. Go away, and come back when you've grown a bit.

 

https://www.autospor...r-penalty-clash

[A3]

Take that advice yourself please.

[Kaiser]

I should step away from F1 and come back? 

[Kaiser]

I see from the title edit and sense of humor and irony is lost on the gatekeepers. Oh well, I thought it was funny.

[xmoonrakerx]

This kid will never learn

[Ellios]

https://streamable.com/setea

[Bleu]

Blaming Bottas for that causes future collisions since he doesn't understand he was at fault.

[A3]

I'm pretty sure he hadn't seen the footage when the comments were made.

 

Pretty low to start a topic which has no other use than to ridicule Verstappen.

 

Vettel blames Hamilton for leaving him no space. Where is his topic where he is asked to leave F1? 

[timmy bolt]

Worse was the I don't care if I'm losing time comment when there was an outside chance of staying ahead of Vettel and getting 4th having already lost 3rd. It's just petulance and such a shame as he has so much talent.

[pRy]

The move itself was marginal. I don't think it was malicious. Max reacted a little over the top considering the penalty was 5 seconds. He's entitled to be angry but there's being angry and then there's harming your own race due to your reaction. His message stating "I don't care if I'm losing time to Vettel" would suggest he turned it into a mission to prove a point rather than achieve the best result. End of the day he's a racing driver and isn't the only one to see red during races. He often gets the most attention when he does however. I just hope he learns a little more self control for the moments it really will matter when he's fighting for a title. 

[CharlesWinstone]

Worse was the I don't care if I'm losing time comment when there was an outside chance of staying ahead of Vettel and getting 4th having already lost 3rd. It's just petulance and such a shame as he has so much talent.

Letting Bottas by would gave cost him at least 2 seconds. Fourth place was gone already. Bottas finished behind Verstappen and knows now how hard it is to overtake Verstappen. He will remember that despite driving a Merc he was unable to pass a Renault powered car on the fastest track with DRS and a 25kph higher top speed. This will be in his mind next race.

[AlexPrime]

There are many days left to the Singapore GP, he will cool. Today, emotions for him are sky high. It happens.

[Fastcake]

I do like the kid, but he is very much still a kid. Maturing while the eyes of the world are on you is extraordinarily difficult.

[PayasYouRace]

I do begin to wonder what it’ll take for him to change his attitude. I thought he’d got it out of his system earlier this year. I worry it’ll take a huge accident for him to take notice.

[QdfV]

I agree the ‘I don’t care’ comment was the bad part. The incident and blaming the other party is standard practice among all F1 drivers, we have seen a lot of that this weekend alone. But that he lets emotion take over above an optimal result is bad, even if in this case it would not have changed the end result. And a let down on an otherwise perfect race and weekend, his performance in the Red Bull was outstanding.

Edited by QdfV, 02 September 2018 - 20:12.

[ForzaFormula]

He's a danger on track sometimes, you could see Bottas was actually worried about getting close to him after, he's dangerous and has to learn, but never accepts responsibility when he defends cutting of drivers etc, he could cause a serious accident one day. He needs better management because his race craft and inability to accept fault, and even going crazy having a fit on the radio does no justice to his actual incredible talent.

[A3]

I do begin to wonder what it’ll take for him to change his attitude. I thought he’d got it out of his system earlier this year. I worry it’ll take a huge accident for him to take notice.

 

Wow. It was nothing more than a misjudgement.

Nothing about the move back to the racing line was illegal except for not leaving enough space for Bottas. Vettel did the same thing with Hamilton.

 

Everything that happened afterwards is shameful, but the incident itself was pretty minor.

Edited by A3, 02 September 2018 - 20:17.

[A3]

He's a danger on track sometimes, you could see Bottas was actually worried about getting close to him after, 

Ehm no, he knew Max had the penalty and he would get 3rd anyway.

[PayasYouRace]

Wow. It was nothing more than a misjudgement.
Nothing about the move back to the racing line was illegal except for not leaving enough space for Bottas. Vettel did the same thing with Hamilton.

A misjudgement doing something he shouldn’t have been. But worse was hit attitude afterwards. He’s a danger as long as he keeps it up.

[A3]

A misjudgement doing something he shouldn’t have been.

Care to elaborate?

[peggle]

Begs the question how many times he can cause a accident by poor race-craft, act like a petulant brat etc before people stop giving him a free pass, if a certain Merc driver has acted in the same manner he would be being crucified by posters, 

[andrewf1]

This immature kid is not going to learn anything anytime soon. It's so pathetic to see him blame everyone else on top of the FIA, whenever he does another stupid, unsporting maneuver.

If he keeps this up, he'll become a joke.  

[bikerAndi]

Jackie Stewart:

 

"To finish first, you must finish and not be running into people all the time. He's having too many collisions with too many drivers, and he can't blame the stewards, because there is a different set at every race."

 

Niki Lauda:

 

"He is completely mad. If the FIA does not punish him, I do not understand the world anymore. At some point, there has to be an end to all the jokes. You cannot drive like this - as it will result in someone getting killed."

 

 

 

All Max needs is a dominant car so he can win from Pole a large part of his career like Hamilton and Vettel did.

 

 

Why should he change? Lewis Hamilton didn't want to change at all when greater drivers such as Lauda, Moss and Stewart heavily criticized him as per the above quotes :  https://www.crash.ne...-getting-killed

Edited by bikerAndi, 02 September 2018 - 20:27.

[redreni]

As I understand it Max's argument is he left sufficient space for Bottas but, for some unknown reason, Bottas chose to drive into him in one of the heaviest braking zones in world motorsport.

 

I can't even be bothered to analyse that point by point. It's just utter horsesh!t from start to finish. I thought he was extremely lucky both cars weren't eliminated on the spot and he was even luckier that the stewards opted for the standard 5s race time penalty when they could easily have plumped for the 10s stop-go.

 

RBR need to realise he's not only throwing away points, he's not helping their image either. He was outperforming the car by running so many laps ahead of Bottas, so fair play to him, but he needs to realise where the limit is. Running people off the road is not refreshing and, regardless of what Max thinks, it's not good racing.

[RPM40]

It was just such an unnecessary, clumsy crash. But the thing is it happened for no reason at all. Bottas had no chance of getting a run on him. 

[Ellios]

https://twitter.com/...331270005972992

[redreni]

Jackie Stewart:

 

"To finish first, you must finish and not be running into people all the time. He's having too many collisions with too many drivers, and he can't blame the stewards, because there is a different set at every race."

 

Niki Lauda:

 

"He is completely mad. If the FIA does not punish him, I do not understand the world anymore. At some point, there has to be an end to all the jokes. You cannot drive like this - as it will result in someone getting killed."

 

 

 

All Max needs is a dominant car so he can win from Pole a large part of his career like Hamilton and Vettel did.

 

 

Why should he change? Lewis Hamilton didn't want to change at all when greater drivers such as Lauda, Moss and Stewart heavily criticized him as per the above quotes :  https://www.crash.ne...-getting-killed

 

Lewis did change, though. In 2011 he needlessly chucked it in the fence at Monza and also crashed out of several other races after contact. Probably should have been black flagged at Monaco that year. He was hitting almost everything that moved. So the comments weren't wrong. In 2012 and 2013 he was much better, though. He didn't need a dominant car to improve, he just needed to calm down a bit. Verstappen's no different.

[peggle]

Lewis did change, though. In 2011 he needlessly chucked it in the fence at Monza and also crashed out of several other races after contact. Probably should have been black flagged at Monaco that year. He was hitting almost everything that moved. So the comments weren't wrong. In 2012 and 2013 he was much better, though. He didn't need a dominant car to improve, he just needed to calm down a bit. Verstappen's no different.

So out of interest how many seasons of Verstappen being a mug are needed before we can conclude he isn't learning, from where im sitting it looks like a pattern is emerging, or maybe its a Redbull team thing that makes drivers act like ***** on a consistent basis, i suspect is he hasn't learned to cool it by now he aint going to, plus his comments about not caring about potentially losing points by engaging in a pointless scrap show a level of disrespect to the team that work damned hard to prep the car

[ForzaFormula]

Jackie Stewart:

 

"To finish first, you must finish and not be running into people all the time. He's having too many collisions with too many drivers, and he can't blame the stewards, because there is a different set at every race."

 

Niki Lauda:

 

"He is completely mad. If the FIA does not punish him, I do not understand the world anymore. At some point, there has to be an end to all the jokes. You cannot drive like this - as it will result in someone getting killed."

 

 

 

All Max needs is a dominant car so he can win from Pole a large part of his career like Hamilton and Vettel did.

 

 

Why should he change? Lewis Hamilton didn't want to change at all when greater drivers such as Lauda, Moss and Stewart heavily criticized him as per the above quotes :  https://www.crash.ne...-getting-killed

 

Hamilton's driving in the past is nothing like what Max has been doing since he came on the scene. Yes he was aggressive but actually mostly it was fair and not dangerous at all. Max has been far worse very often.

[A3]

So out of interest how many seasons of Verstappen being a mug are needed before we can conclude he isn't learning, from where im sitting it looks like a pattern is emerging, 

The guy has had 8 faultless races in a row.

Yeah, I see the "pattern".

Edited by A3, 02 September 2018 - 20:41.

[LH44Fan]

Jackie Stewart:

 

"To finish first, you must finish and not be running into people all the time. He's having too many collisions with too many drivers, and he can't blame the stewards, because there is a different set at every race."

 

Niki Lauda:

 

"He is completely mad. If the FIA does not punish him, I do not understand the world anymore. At some point, there has to be an end to all the jokes. You cannot drive like this - as it will result in someone getting killed."

 

 

 

All Max needs is a dominant car so he can win from Pole a large part of his career like Hamilton and Vettel did.

 

 

Why should he change? Lewis Hamilton didn't want to change at all when greater drivers such as Lauda, Moss and Stewart heavily criticized him as per the above quotes :  https://www.crash.ne...-getting-killed

 

Lewis did and has changed though, very visibly for any fan watching - his attitude, planning and consideration (and execution) are all markedly different from his first say 4 seasons in fact I would credit Jenson a lot for teaching Lewis consistency which resulted in one of Lewis' best ever seasons, 2012, where he gave Jenson a real spanking.

 

The Lewis we're watching now is not the same as the first third of his career, he is a LOT more cautious now.

 

Like Max he burst onto the scene and was overtaking everyone like he was pacman, chewing 'em all up and spitting 'em out until the drivers decided that was enough and started fighting back. Lewis learned the hard way and the same lesson is being applied to Max now.

 

The difference (and what I guess people like PAYR are saying) is that Max is blind in refusing to accept criticism even when it may be justified and Christian 'this is silly Seb' Horner and Marko are in his corner, pandering to him, Media says he is Senna reincarnate, so why should he change?

 

Point being he will not maximise his potential (like we're seeing with Lewis) until he listens to valid criticism and changes his approach accordingly.

 

No human being on this planet knows everything and if you refuse to learn you cannot improve, simples...

[as65p]

Wow. It was nothing more than a misjudgement.

Nothing about the move back to the racing line was illegal except for not leaving enough space for Bottas. Vettel did the same thing with Hamilton.

 

Everything that happened afterwards is shameful, but the incident itself was pretty minor.

 

Remember your wise words from the Alonso vs. Magnussen thread:

 

He acted like a sore loser and the way he responded on the radio was just pathetic. He didn't even care. Go home Alonso.

 

I trust you'll apply the same verdict on Max' behaviour today?

Edited by as65p, 02 September 2018 - 20:42.

[LH44Fan]

Lewis did change, though. In 2011 he needlessly chucked it in the fence at Monza and also crashed out of several other races after contact. Probably should have been black flagged at Monaco that year. He was hitting almost everything that moved. So the comments weren't wrong. In 2012 and 2013 he was much better, though. He didn't need a dominant car to improve, he just needed to calm down a bit. Verstappen's no different.

 

We posted the same thing 'cept you did it in a lot fewer sentences.

 

+ 1

[Knowlesy]

Lewis had an off season in 2011. An embarrassment, but before and since has been clean.

Max is, and always has been, a bit too lairy. Whether he improves remains to be seen.

[A3]

I trust you'll apply the same verdict on Max' behaviour today?

 
It's in the post you quoted, trouble reading? 
 
 

Everything that happened afterwards is shameful, but the incident itself was pretty minor.

As I said in the Max vs Dan thread, a deserved penalty.

Edited by A3, 02 September 2018 - 20:46.

[NateF]

The guy has had 8 faultless races in a row.

Yeah, I see the "pattern".

He hit a rough patch a bit like Hamilton in ‘11, where any and all contact became his fault even if it was actually 50:50 or the other guys just by virtue of being the “other” car each time, so people examined each individual incident based on what happened last time rather on its merit for want of better word.

I think today was on Verstappen and I think his radio comments were ill advised but yeah most likely from now on people will be trigger happy to blame Verstappen for any incident he may find himself in, whether or not he’s guilty.

[RPM40]

He hit a rough patch a bit like Hamilton in ‘11, where any and all contact became his fault even if it was actually 50:50 or the other guys just by virtue of being the “other” car each time, so people examined each individual incident based on what happened last time rather on its merit for want of better word.

I think today was on Verstappen and I think his radio comments were ill advised but yeah most likely from now on people will be trigger happy to blame Verstappen for any incident he may find himself in, whether or not he’s guilty.

 

He does have a bit of a history with not giving enough room in the braking zone, which was why it seemed more of a continuation of prior incidents. While pretty clumsy, I doubt many other driver would have gotten a huge amount of criticism for that. Although I do think the penalty would have been universally applied, not just in this example. 

[KWSN - DSM]

Penalty issued to Verstappen, i.e. his fault not Bottas... so simple even I understand it.

 

[EndlessMotion]

He might have made the comments before he'd seen the footage but that's only a good excuse for his comments made in the car during the race in the heat of the moment. To get out of the car and have time to cool down, go to the post race interviews and still talk so confidently and arrogantly that he wasn't at fault and it was Bottas' for driving into his wheel when it was so painfully obviously Max's fault and nobody elses.....it's pretty laughable.

 

The guy has a track record of moving around in the braking zone and brings this kind of criticism on himself by continuing to do it and then having the audacity to direct all blame on the drivers he's impeding. He's a great talent and most likely going to be a multiple WDC but he still has the air of a kid that could really have benefited from coming through the lower formulas to learn racing etiquette properly before he entered F1. But even then he's been in the top tier for quite a few seasons now and should have learned.

 

Who knows what gets said to him behind closed doors but his bosses at Red Bull need to give him some serious advice. It's as if he's constantly being told he's in the right and having his ego massaged.

[as65p]

 
It's in the post you quoted, trouble reading? 

 

Nah, I'm missing the "go home" part.

 

And besides, didn't you also complain about childish insults in the other thread? 

[A3]

And besides, didn't you also complain about childish insults in the other thread? 

You reap what you sow dude...

I am perfectly capable of being critical of the driver I support. Have been in the past, am now.

Edited by A3, 02 September 2018 - 20:56.

[cpbell]

There are many days left to the Singapore GP, he will cool. Today, emotions for him are sky high. It happens.

It happens rather frequently for Verstappen, though, and the rate at which he makes these mistakes isn't slowing.

[SlowPuncture]

The move itself wasn’t the big deal, okay it merited a 5 sec penalty... it was the petulance afterwards that is the issue.

He had shown the same with Raikkonen on Spa in 2016. That’s worrisome.

[pingu666]

its his attitude, hes alot like kurt or kyle busch, or tony stewart or kevin harvick, all very talented, all very motivated, all prone to hot headedness and arrogance? i see him as that type of person, those qualities enable him to excell, but also be his own worst enemy.

[LH44Fan]

Loving these topics. A little chance for Max’s detractors to crawl out of their caves and spew their hate. Must have been tough with so little to complain about recently. He will shut you all up again soon.

 

Seriously? So people giving him advice which will actually help him become a 'great' driver are detractors because they are not up his sphincter refusing to criticise him?

 

That's blind worship and not reasonable on any level. Visit the scuderia.net forums to see what blind worship is like en masse. This kind of post would fit perfectly there.

[KWSN - DSM]

It's a sanitized sport we are celebrating Arnoux and Villeneuve for doing this repeatedly in a Grand Prix... but as the times are Verstappen should have left 17 cm more room.

 

[djparky]

It just seemed like a little wheel banging into the first chicane to me, no worse than we've seen before. In this safety obsessed age it was obviously too much

[Ellios]

That Verstappen had already decided he wasn't going to let BOT past, even if that meant losing more world championship points for himself and Red Bull shows he's got so much power within that team, no wonder Danny RIC wanted to get out. 

 

Some teams fight all year to get a point or two in the championships and Verstappen is happy to let points slip just to keep Bottas behind him.

 

I know he would have almost certainly have lost out to VET in the end, but he never thought about that for one minute and looks like the team just accepted it   

[Thatfastguy]

Seriously? So people giving him advice which will actually help him become a 'great' driver are detractors because they are not up his sphincter refusing to criticise him?

That's blind worship and not reasonable on any level. Visit the scuderia.net forums to see what blind worship is like en masse. This kind of post would fit perfectly there.

Im not talking about the constructive posts. Sure, they are fine. Im talking about the haters that show up only when Max is involved in some kind of incident and do nothing but hate on him and talk him down. I have no problem being critical of him.

[as65p]

You reap what you sow dude...
 

 

I see, you're the kind of guy re-paying like for like. Shame you momentarily forgot applying that principle when judging Alonsos reaction to Magnussen yesterday.

 

The funny thing is, I'm not thinking what Max did was so terrible. Like Alonso, he didn't endanger anyone by doing what he did, his priorities at any given moment are his choice. Well, and the teams, but he knows he has them in his pocket anyway.