14936 replies to this topic

[7MGTEsup]

Luigi Fagioli bears consideration on this record. As far as major GP wins, he won at Monaco in 1935 for Mercedes and shared a F1 win in 1951 with Fangio at the French GP for Alfa. This race is his record for oldest, by far, F1 winner. In 1935 he also won at Avus and the Penya Rhin GP, so the interval would still be 16 years if these races were included.

 

We may be talking about 2 different things here.

 

We were talking about longest interval between wins for the same mark not longest interval between first and last win, although you may be replying to a different question.

[PlatenGlass]

We're not counting Watson winning from 22nd then?  That was in a US grand prix.

I think the 1984 Detroit stat came up in the Sky commentary and Brundle said he thought he was in hospital. Does he really not remember finishing 2nd and then being disqualified from the season? It was probably the closest he ever came to winning a race.

Maybe he was thinking of Dallas.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 22 October 2018 - 15:57.

[Tim Murray]

I think the 1984 Detroit stat came up in the Sky commentary and Brundle said he thought he was in hospital. Does he really not remember finishing 2nd and then being disqualified from the season? It was probably the closest he ever came to winning a race.

Maybe he was thinking of Dallas.

The race that Watson won from 22nd on the grid was the 1983 US GP (West) at Long Beach. On the same day Martin Brundle finished second to Ayrton Senna in the F3 race at Donington Park.

Watson also won the 1982 Detroit GP from 17th on the grid.

[D28]

We may be talking about 2 different things here.

 

We were talking about longest interval between wins for the same mark not longest interval between first and last win, although you may be replying to a different question.

I was thinking of post 3739 and the interval between major GP wins.

[SpaceHorseParty]

Räikkönen's first win was Malaysia 2003, and his last one (so far) is USA 2018. This stretch of races encompasses all wins of these 15 drivers:

• Fisichella (Brazil 2003–Malaysia 2006)
• Alonso (Hungary 2003–Spain 2013)
• Trulli (Monaco 2004)
• Button (Hungary 2006–Brazil 2012)
• Massa (Turkey 2006–Brazil 2008)
• Hamilton (Canada 2007–Japan 2018)
• Kubica (Canada 2008)
• Kovalainen (Hungary 2008)
• Vettel (Italy 2008–Belgium 2018)
• Webber (Germany 2009–Britain 2012)
• N Rosberg (China 2012–Japan 2016)
• Maldonado (Spain 2012)
• Ricciardo (Canada 2014–Monaco 2018)
• Verstappen (Spain 2016–Austria 2018)
• Bottas (Russia 2017–Abu Dhabi 2017)

For comparison, Lauda has 17 drivers on his list (might be a record, but I didn't check everyone), M Schumacher has 13, Fangio has 12 (including Indy 500s), Piquet has 9, and Prost has 7.

 

Räikkönen's list might lose as many as five drivers (I'm assuming Alonso won't win again), which would still put him at 10.

[PlatenGlass]

The race that Watson won from 22nd on the grid was the 1983 US GP (West) at Long Beach. On the same day Martin Brundle finished second to Ayrton Senna in the F3 race at Donington Park.

Watson also won the 1982 Detroit GP from 17th on the grid.

Yeah, my quoting wasn't very clever. There was a reference to Fabi in the 1984 Detroit race in the quote of the thing I quoted.

[HistoryFan]

Räikkönen last time gain a position at the start at the 2016 Abu Dhabi GP...

 

Until USAA 2018...

[AlexS]

As for why Ferrari hung on to them, I think that has something to do with their obsession for V12's be it in racing or production.

Do you know why the current production Ferrari V8's are turbocharged?

Because: As a company the cars they built have to meet certain emission standards for the entire program. Had all engines remained atmo's Ferrari won't meet that limit for their entire program. So the V8s are sacrificed an made turbocharged so that the hallowed V12s can remmain atmo for very little other reason than just the sound experience.
It is not that Ferrari can't built good turbocharged engines, that V8's is not winning all kind of engine awards in recent years for nothing.
But if the V12 can remain within the Ferrari program then it has to remain atmo: for the sound....
And for that it needs its smaller sibblings to be turbocharged to make up enough emission figures to compensate for what the V12s pollute, while creating that sound experience....

 

[SenorSjon]

From memory, 2 long standing streaks will be broken.
- No one lost the WDC after winning the first two races
- The winner of Hungary most likely won't be WDC.

[Taxi]

didn't hamilton win in Hungary?

[SpeedRacer`]

I think the gap between Raikkonen's victories is the same number of races it took Button to win his first race?

[7MGTEsup]

didn't hamilton win in Hungary?

 

He said the streaks will be broken.

[Brackets]

Raikkonen [only driver to] win with V10, V8 and V6 engines.

 

And unless ALO has a really weird weekend in his last three races, RAI will remain the only driver to win in these three eras.

 

I'm obviously posting this on behalf of ALO and his fans, coz knowing RAI's luck, we now know that ALO will actually win at least one of his last three GP's.

[HistoryFan]

Does anyone know where I can find overtakings statistics for the 2018 season?

Overtakings in every race, plus compared to 2017, plus what drivers have the most overtakings this season?

[Myrvold]

Does anyone know where I can find overtakings statistics for the 2018 season?

Overtakings in every race, plus compared to 2017, plus what drivers have the most overtakings this season?

I would expect cliptheapex to still do the overtaking stats. I honestly haven't checked this year.

 

If they don't. I guess I should stop my yearly payment to them.

[GrzegorzChyla]

From memory, 2 long standing streaks will be broken.
- No one lost the WDC after winning the first two races
- The winner of Hungary most likely won't be WDC.

Jacques Laffite won first 2 races in 1979 and finished saison at 4th

[Collombin]

Jacques Laffite won first 2 races in 1979 and finished saison at 4th

He didn't say it never happened, just a long standing streak. Prost won the first 2 in 1982 (albeit Rio by default).

[Tim Murray]

Likewise Fittipaldi in 1973 and Lauda in 1976.

[Hati]

So, Ricciardo now has as many DNFs in this season than Bottas has in career?

[Fatgadget]

So, Ricciardo now has as many DNFs in this season than Bottas has in career?

That surely is scratching the bottom of the barrell!

[ensign14]

Hamilton has won titles over a 10 year period.  Equals Schumacher's record.

[Ev0d3vil]

From memory, 2 long standing streaks will be broken.
- No one lost the WDC after winning the first two races
- The winner of Hungary most likely won't be WDC.

And broken !

[HermannH]

From memory, 2 long standing streaks will be broken.
- No one lost the WDC after winning the first two races

That stat is wrong

 

1973 - Fittipaldi wins 2 first races, stewart takes title
1976 - Lauda wins 2 first races, Hunt takes title
1979 - Laffite wins 2 first races, Scheckter takes title
1982 - Prost wins 2 first races, Rosberg takes title

[Henri Greuter]

2018 is the seaon within the hybrid V6T era in which both RedBull and Ferrari scored the most victories ever within a season.
Will it also be the seaon in which both theams had both drivers scoring victories but Champion Mercedes having all vicories won by a single driver (their champion driver) for the first ever time in the V6T era???

[ensign14]

Looking at Fangio's WC record.

 

24 wins - but also 10 seconds.

 

He had 35 podium finishes and just six non-podium finishes.  Two of those in his desultory final part-season.

 

68.6% podium finish rate, and 5.83 times as many podium finishes as non-podium finishes.

 

Even taking into account the car-swapping, that's a remarkable set of statistics. 

[HistoryFan]

Verstappen now beats the record for most wins without pole positions:

5 wins, 0 poles

 

Bruce McLaren: 4 wins, 0 poles

Eddie Irvine: 4 wins, 0 poles

Peter Collins: 3 wins, 0 poles

Johnny Herbert: 3 wins, 0 poles

 

it's also the first time since Singapore 2016 without Hamiton or Vettel in the front row...

[SenorSjon]

That stat is wrong

 

1973 - Fittipaldi wins 2 first races, stewart takes title
1976 - Lauda wins 2 first races, Hunt takes title
1979 - Laffite wins 2 first races, Scheckter takes title
1982 - Prost wins 2 first races, Rosberg takes title

 

Well, 36 years is a long streak for F1.

[ernestomodena]

With winning the mexican GP.

 

Verstappen now has more podiums then DNF 20 vs 19.

He also has lead more laps an mileage then eather bottas or Ricciardo.

 

And has the same amount of wins as Keke rosberg. I would have thought he had more wins in his bag.

[PayasYouRace]

Verstappen now beats the record for most wins without pole positions:
5 wins, 0 poles

Bruce McLaren: 4 wins, 0 poles
Eddie Irvine: 4 wins, 0 poles
Peter Collins: 3 wins, 0 poles
Johnny Herbert: 3 wins, 0 poles

it's also the first time since Singapore 2016 without Hamiton or Vettel in the front row...

Denny Hulme still has that record at 6 wins without a pole. He finally scored his first pole in [Edit] South Africa 1973 and then won two more races after that.

[Collombin]

And Peter Collins did have a start from pole - he just didn't set the fastest practice time!

[ernestomodena]

Well Daniel suggesting his car is cursed. This season he DNF 8 times that's the same amount of 13th places he got in his career.

[statman]

Tobi Grüner  ‏Verified account @tgruener 14h14 hours ago

More

Alonso retiring means he now can't break Schumachers all-time F1 laps raced record this season, if I'm correct.

[TradeMark]

MV vs DR over their almost 3 years is also super close now.

 

MV left, DR right:

 

56 races

 

Points: 575 vs 566

Wins: 5 vs 4

Podiums: 20 vs 19

DNFs: 13 vs 14 (I counted Max in Silverstone DNFing late in the race as a DNF)

Qualifying: 33 vs 23

 

1st: 5 vs 4

2nd: 8 vs 5

3rd: 7 vs 10

4th: 6 vs 9

5th: 10 vs 7

6th: 2 vs 4

7th: 1 vs 2

8th: 1 vs 1

9th: 1 vs 0

10th: 1 vs 0

Edited by TradeMark, 29 October 2018 - 09:49.

[TradeMark]

Another one I just noticed:

 

Michael Schumacher had 20 podiums and 5 wins before first taking pole position. Max Verstappen now has 20 podiums and 5 wins as well (both are shared records between them), though chances are of course that Verstappen will increase especially the podiums number before taking a first pole position.

[Spillage]

Hamilton has now won had three title-winning races in which he didn't finish on the podium. I thought it would be interesting to look at where other drivers finished in the races in which they took the title:

 

1950 - Farina - 1st

1951 - Fangio - 1st

1952 - Ascari - 1st

1953 - Ascari - 1st

1954 - Fangio - 1st

1955 - Fangio - 2nd

1956 - Fangio - 2nd (shared with Collins)

1957 - Fangio - 1st

1958 - Hawthorn - 2nd

1959 - Brabham - 4th

1960 - Brabham - 1st

1961 - P. Hill - 1st

1962 - G. Hill - 1st

1963 - Clark - 1st

1964 - Surtees - 2nd

1965 - Clark - 1st

1966 - Brabham - DNF

1967 - Hulme - 3rd

1968 - G. Hill - 1st

1969 - Stewart - 1st

1970 - Rindt - DNE (the title was decided when Ickx finished 4th at Watkins Glen)

1971 - Stewart - DNF

1972 - Fittipaldi - 1st

1973 - Stewart - 4th

1974 - Fittipaldi - 4th

1975 - Lauda - 3rd

1976 - Hunt - 3rd

1977 - Lauda - 4th

1978 - Andretti - 6th

1979 - Scheckter - 1st

1980 - Jones - 1st

1981 - Piquet - 5th

1982 - K. Rosberg - 5th

1983 - Piquet - 3rd

1984 - Lauda - 2nd

1985 - Prost - 4th

1986 - Prost - 1st

1987 - Piquet - 15th (though the title was actually decided in practise, when Mansell crashed heavily and was deemed unfit to race)

1988 - Senna - 1st

1989 - Prost - DNF

1990 - Senna - DNF

1991 - Senna - 2nd

1992 - Mansell - 2nd

1993 - Prost - 2nd

1994 - Schumacher - DNF

1995 - Schumacher - 1st

1996 - D. Hill - 1st

1997 - Villeneuve - 3rd

1998 - Hakkinen - 1st

1999 - Hakkinen - 1st

2000 - Schumacher - 1st

2001 - Schumacher - 1st

2002 - Schumacher - 1st

2003 - Schumacher - 8th

2004 - Schumacher - 2nd

2005 - Alonso - 3rd

2006 - Alonso - 2nd

2007 - Raikkonen - 1st

2008 - Hamilton - 5th

2009 - Button - 5th

2010 - Vettel - 1st

2011 - Vettel - 3rd

2012 - Vettel - 6th

2013 - Vettel - 1st

2014 - Hamilton - 1st

2015 - Hamilton - 1st

2016 - N. Rosberg - 2nd

2017 - Hamilton - 9th

2018 - Hamilton - 4th

 

So it looks like drivers only won the race in which they took the title about half the time. 

Edited by Spillage, 29 October 2018 - 11:30.

[cheekybru]

So... Could we have some crazy Lewis Hamilton stats today pleaseee stat people? I feel the need to bask in stats

[Signori]

When last did someone win the Hungarian Grand prix and the wdc in the same year ?

[OO7]

When last did someone win the Hungarian Grand prix and the wdc in the same year ?

Michael Schumacher in 2004.

[HistoryFan]

And Peter Collins did have a start from pole - he just didn't set the fastest practice time!

how came that?

 

[Dan333SP]

Michael Schumacher in 2004.

 

I still remember how odd it was when MSC finished 8th, 1 lap down, at the Hungarian GP in 2003. He even managed to take pole and finish 2nd in the overall pretty poor 2005 car, so it always struck me as odd that the title winning 2003 car was so bad around that circuit, especially since it went well at Monaco. 

[ensign14]

how came that?

 

 

Fangio set the time in Collins' car.  The timekeepers credited it to Collins.
 

[Atreiu]

That stat is wrong

1973 - Fittipaldi wins 2 first races, stewart takes title
1976 - Lauda wins 2 first races, Hunt takes title
1979 - Laffite wins 2 first races, Scheckter takes title
1982 - Prost wins 2 first races, Rosberg takes title

He meant streaks, not absolute records.

[MrMonaco]

I still remember how odd it was when MSC finished 8th, 1 lap down, at the Hungarian GP in 2003. He even managed to take pole and finish 2nd in the overall pretty poor 2005 car, so it always struck me as odd that the title winning 2003 car was so bad around that circuit, especially since it went well at Monaco. 

Wasn't that due to tyre wars?

[7MGTEsup]

Wasn't that due to tyre wars?

 

It was the 2005 Bridgstone that wasn't any good. I thought 2003 the Ferrari was the class of the field it was only the new scoring system that made a win worth only 2 points more than second that kept the championship close.

[SenorSjon]

The 2003 Ferrari/Bridgestone package was all over the place. I don't want to mention 2005...

[Boxerevo]

Verstappen now beats the record for most wins without pole positions:

5 wins, 0 poles

 

Bruce McLaren: 4 wins, 0 poles

Eddie Irvine: 4 wins, 0 poles

Peter Collins: 3 wins, 0 poles

Johnny Herbert: 3 wins, 0 poles

 

it's also the first time since Singapore 2016 without Hamiton or Vettel in the front row...

No. He is there with Michael now.

 

Schumacher have 5 wins without pole. I know this because the first one came right after Senna's death, Monaco 1994.

Edited by Boxerevo, 29 October 2018 - 16:09.

[Myrvold]

No. He is there with Michael now.

 

Schumacher have 5 wins without pole. I know this because the first one came right after Senna's death, Monaco 1994.

 

And as has been posted multiple times over several threads, Denny Hulme had 6 wins (and a WDC) before his sole pole position in 1973 (6 years after his WDC).

However, there are no drivers with 0 career poles that have more wins than Verstappen. He will most likely lose this record though.

[Dan333SP]

It was the 2005 Bridgstone that wasn't any good. I thought 2003 the Ferrari was the class of the field it was only the new scoring system that made a win worth only 2 points more than second that kept the championship close.

 

2003 was a wacky year, there were times when the Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari, and Williams were the class of the field depending on circuit conditions and the tire selection. The Ferrari was the most consistent package, and MSC was still on the tail end of his prime performance era, but that tire war certainly had an impact. I think MSC was the highest-finishing Bridgestone car that day. 

[sopa]

2003 was a wacky year, there were times when the Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari, and Williams were the class of the field depending on circuit conditions and the tire selection. The Ferrari was the most consistent package, and MSC was still on the tail end of his prime performance era, but that tire war certainly had an impact. I think MSC was the highest-finishing Bridgestone car that day. 

 

I thought McLaren was the most consistent package. They were almost always on the podium, but only a handful of circuits, where they were outright quickest. Williams and Ferrari had more/higher peaks, and deeper lows.

[Sterzo]

Fangio set the time in Collins' car.  The timekeepers credited it to Collins.
 

Wasn't it rather that the grid position was allocated to the car, regardless of who was driving it? Same effect, I know, but as dear unto God is the poor pedant as the mighty prince.