14655 replies to this topic

[scheivlak]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 19:38, said:

 

McLaren are guaranteed to have the most wins at the Red Bull Ring for at least 2 years, as they currently have 6 wins. Ferrari and Mercedes have 4 each.

 

 

McLaren have won races at the Oesterreichring and at the A1 ring, but AFAIK not at the Red Bull Ring. Yes I know - and I have no problems identifying the Red Bull Ring with the A1 Ring, but I find it problematic to call Jacky Ickx, Jo Siffert or John Watson a winner "at the Red Bull Ring".

[PayasYouRace]

scheivlak, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:29, said:

McLaren have won races at the Oesterreichring and at the A1 ring, but AFAIK not at the Red Bull Ring. Yes I know - and I have no problems identifying the Red Bull Ring with the A1 Ring, but I find it problematic to call Jacky Ickx, Jo Siffert or John Watson a winner "at the Red Bull Ring".

It’s the exact same circuit. I’m just using the current name.

[PayasYouRace]

Hati, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:04, said:

How (true) Lotus fares?

Generally not too well. But they also share the record at Mexico City with 3 wins there. I just didn’t mention them because they don’t exist any more.

[scheivlak]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:32, said:

It’s the exact same circuit. I’m just using the current name.

It's certainly not exactly the same circuit!

Edited by scheivlak, 23 December 2018 - 22:38.

[PayasYouRace]

scheivlak, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:36, said:

It's certainly not the same circuit!

No it definitely is the same circuit. It’s located at 47 deg 13’ 11” N, 14 deg 45’ 53” E. You can even still see older portions of the track that aren’t currently used, just like at Spa or Monza.

[scheivlak]

So if Spa was bought by and named after Stella Artois you would call Jim Clark a four time winner at the Stella Artois track? If Richard Branson bought Silverstone and named it the Virgin Ring you would call Nigel Mansell a two time winner at the Virgin Ring? 

 

I would have less problems if you called McLaren the most successful team at the Oesterreichring in any of its configurations but to call it the most successful team at the Red Bull Ring is just insane.

 

And that's apart from the fact that the Red Bull Ring is completely different from the Oesterreichring layout.

Edited by scheivlak, 23 December 2018 - 22:56.

[Beri]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:41, said:

No it definitely is the same circuit. It’s located at 47 deg 13’ 11” N, 14 deg 45’ 53” E. You can even still see older portions of the track that aren’t currently used, just like at Spa or Monza.

Well, I can't find many arguments or replies by you that I would classify as untrue, but in this case I can't right your wrong. The current Red Bull ring is as far off from the old-school Osterreichring as the current Zandvoort layout is from the one Laura won at. Zandvoort as well still is located at the same coordinates as it was in 1985, but it bears no resemblance to any of it's heritage. So no, sorry. The Red Bull Ring is not the Osterreichring.

[Sterzo]

Beri, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:52, said:

Well, I can't find many arguments or replies by you that I would classify as untrue, but in this case I can't right your wrong. The current Red Bull ring is as far off from the old-school Osterreichring as the current Zandvoort layout is from the one Laura won at. Zandvoort as well still is located at the same coordinates as it was in 1985, but it bears no resemblance to any of it's heritage. So no, sorry. The Red Bull Ring is not the Osterreichring.

Surely a place is a place? The circuit at Zandvoort may have changed substantially, but it's still at Zandvoort. Equally the Osterreichring is still there, even if the layout's modified and the name has changed.

[PayasYouRace]

Beri, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:52, said:

Well, I can't find many arguments or replies by you that I would classify as untrue, but in this case I can't right your wrong. The current Red Bull ring is as far off from the old-school Osterreichring as the current Zandvoort layout is from the one Laura won at. Zandvoort as well still is located at the same coordinates as it was in 1985, but it bears no resemblance to any of it's heritage. So no, sorry. The Red Bull Ring is not the Osterreichring.

Zandvoort is the same circuit. Spa is the same circuit. Interlagos is the same circuit. Layouts change over time. They get chopped and changed. But they’re the same places. Red Bull Ring has the same start finish straight, the same top straight, much of the same infield and the final section that it did in the 1970s. Zandvoort has more in common, as the whole first half of the lap hasn’t even changed.

scheivlak, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:50, said:

So if Spa was bought by and named after Stella Artois you would call Jim Clark a four time winner at the Stella Artois track? If Richard Branson bought Silverstone and named it the Virgin Ring you would call Nigel Mansell a two time winner at the Virgin Ring? 
 
I would have less problems if you called McLaren the most successful team at the Oesterreichring in any of its configurations but to call it the most successful team at the Red Bull Ring is just insane.
 
And that's apart from the fact that the Red Bull Ring is completely different from the Oesterreichring layout.

A rose by any other name and all that. McLaren is the most successful team at the permanent circuit near Zeltweg that has gone by many names. Personally I’d rather it was still just called the Osterreichring but it’s more relevant to call it by its current name.

[scheivlak]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:03, said:

Zandvoort is the same circuit. Spa is the same circuit. Interlagos is the same circuit. Layouts change over time. They get chopped and changed. But they’re the same places. Red Bull Ring has the same start finish straight, the same top straight, much of the same infield and the final section that it did in the 1970s. Zandvoort has more in common, as the whole first half of the lap hasn’t even changed.

Then why did you call it exactly the same circuit?

 

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:03, said:

A rose by any other name and all that. McLaren is the most successful team at the permanent circuit near Zeltweg that has gone by many names. Personally I’d rather it was still just called the Osterreichring but it’s more relevant to call it by its current name.

So you admit that Clark could be name a four time winner at the Stella Artois track in the future and Nigel Mansell a two time winner at the Virgin Ring. OK.

 

Why is the current name more relevant? I think you might answer": "Well, that's because it's the name by which it is now known". Add to this that you think that the current track is exactly like the original Oesterreichring you're not helping people to understand more of the history of F1.....

[PayasYouRace]

scheivlak, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:25, said:

Then why did you call it exactly the same circuit?


So you admit that Clark could be name a four time winner at the Stella Artois track in the future and Nigel Mansell a two time winner at the Virgin Ring. OK.

Why is the current name more relevant? I think you might answer": "Well, that's because it's the name by which it is now known". Add to this that you think that the current track is exactly like the original Oesterreichring you're not helping people to understand more of the history of F1.....

Well I guess we can put this down to semantics. I consider it the exact same circuit because it is as far as I understand the term. The layout has changed but many circuits have had their layouts changed. Silverstone is the exact same circuit Farina won at in 1950, etc, etc.

I’m not sure what my “admitting” to Clark winning at the Stella Artois track would achieve. Mansell won 3 times at Silverstone by the way. Sometimes circuits change their name. Sonoma Raceway was once Sears Point and Infineon Raceway in between. If Spa did change its name it wouldn’t change that the same roads from Stavelot to Les Combes were in use back then as they are now.

In Austria, the same bit of track saw de Angelis hold off Rosberg in 82, the 3 start crashes in 87, Hakkinen’s car break down in 97, Barrichello let Schumacher by in 02, Vettel’s tyre explode in 16 and Bottas make a lightning start last year. You seem to get upset that the modern events of the track are so clearly linked to those of the past. You’re actually misleading people on the history of the track by making it seem like the Austrian GP has been held at more than just the two venues it has been held at.

[Beri]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:37, said:

Well I guess we can put this down to semantics. I consider it the exact same circuit because it is as far as I understand the term. The layout has changed but many circuits have had their layouts changed. Silverstone is the exact same circuit Farina won at in 1950, etc, etc.

I’m not sure what my “admitting” to Clark winning at the Stella Artois track would achieve. Mansell won 3 times at Silverstone by the way. Sometimes circuits change their name. Sonoma Raceway was once Sears Point and Infineon Raceway in between. If Spa did change its name it wouldn’t change that the same roads from Stavelot to Les Combes were in use back then as they are now.

In Austria, the same bit of track saw de Angelis hold off Rosberg in 82, the 3 start crashes in 87, Hakkinen’s car break down in 97, Barrichello let Schumacher by in 02, Vettel’s tyre explode in 16 and Bottas make a lightning start last year. You seem to get upset that the modern events of the track are so clearly linked to those of the past. You’re actually misleading people on the history of the track by making it seem like the Austrian GP has been held at more than just the two venues it has been held at.

If that's the case, why then saying it is exactly the same track? Because it isn't. Spa nowadays is a Spa that I don't see as the Spa where Bruce McLaren or Clark won at. Same goes for Monza. Since the Rettifilio I can't say that it's the same track where Senna won at. It's all the Belgian, Austrian or Italian Grand Prix held at the circuit that bears the same (or sometimes different) name over the course of decades. But it isn't the same track. I qualify circuit changes as much as adding the Rettifilio as so big, that it is a completely different track. It's just how I see it.

[Garndell]

Beri, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:58, said:

If that's the case, why then saying it is exactly the same track? Because it isn't. Spa nowadays is a Spa that I don't see as the Spa where Bruce McLaren or Clark won at. Same goes for Monza. Since the Rettifilio I can't say that it's the same track where Senna won at. It's all the Belgian, Austrian or Italian Grand Prix held at the circuit that bears the same (or sometimes different) name over the course of decades. But it isn't the same track. I qualify circuit changes as much as adding the Rettifilio as so big, that it is a completely different track. It's just how I see it.

 

How many times has Hamilton won at Silverstone, do you split the number due to the configuration changes or do you keep it as is?

[Hati]

PayasYouRace, on 23 Dec 2018 - 22:35, said:

But they also share the record at Mexico City with 3 wins there. I just didn’t mention them because they don’t exist any more.

 

Fact that they still have some record is little mind blowing considering how long they have been out. (Ok, in case of Mexico the fact that it was out too has helped.)

[PayasYouRace]

Beri, on 23 Dec 2018 - 23:58, said:

If that's the case, why then saying it is exactly the same track? Because it isn't. Spa nowadays is a Spa that I don't see as the Spa where Bruce McLaren or Clark won at. Same goes for Monza. Since the Rettifilio I can't say that it's the same track where Senna won at. It's all the Belgian, Austrian or Italian Grand Prix held at the circuit that bears the same (or sometimes different) name over the course of decades. But it isn't the same track. I qualify circuit changes as much as adding the Rettifilio as so big, that it is a completely different track. It's just how I see it.

 

I think it's absurd that you'd go so far as saying that changing a single chicane changed a circuit to the point that it no longer carries over any history. Your argument obviously applies to lap times or to events at parts of a circuit that no longer exist. I'd never suggest the Rettifilo that we have today was the same one that Senna was rammed by Schlesser at. But that event happened at the same Monza that goes back to 1922.

 

I find it somewhat annoying that you and scheivlak are so keen to spoil what is just an interesting bit of trivia I brought into the thread.

[Bleu]

While the circuit has had the name of the sponsor, the podium backboard has said Spielberg in both.

 

 

Which can lead to a point that you can call Österreichring as Spielberg as well.

Edited by Bleu, 24 December 2018 - 08:40.

[Beri]

PayasYouRace, on 24 Dec 2018 - 08:27, said:

I think it's absurd that you'd go so far as saying that changing a single chicane changed a circuit to the point that it no longer carries over any history. Your argument obviously applies to lap times or to events at parts of a circuit that no longer exist. I'd never suggest the Rettifilo that we have today was the same one that Senna was rammed by Schlesser at. But that event happened at the same Monza that goes back to 1922.

I find it somewhat annoying that you and scheivlak are so keen to spoil what is just an interesting bit of trivia I brought into the thread.

I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention. The trivia is a good one and somewhat stunning if you look at it the way you did. And it would fit a good new thread to discuss the matter further. But for now I rest my opinion to return this thread to good trivial stories like the one you came up with. My apologies again.

[boillot]

Yes, where is the line that you draw between the accepted and unaccepted amount of changes for a circuit to remain “the same circuit”?

[Collombin]

Using Mansell as an example, I would say he won at the same Silverstone but a different Kyalami.

[ensign14]

boillot, on 24 Dec 2018 - 08:49, said:

Yes, where is the line that you draw between the accepted and unaccepted amount of changes for a circuit to remain “the same circuit”?

 

Heraklitos would have said you can never race at the same circuit twice.

 

Kratylos would have said that you can never race at the same circuit once.

 

And Gorgias would have said neither you nor the circuit exists.

 

[PayasYouRace]

And Zeno would have said that you can never complete a lap of a circuit.

[Larunss]

boillot, on 24 Dec 2018 - 08:49, said:

Yes, where is the line that you draw between the accepted and unaccepted amount of changes for a circuit to remain “the same circuit”?

Atleast 53.28% of the circuit ar the same.

Actually this is a tricky one. Take Barcelona. It was resurfaced recently right? And I recall Lewis talking abut how as a result the whole feeling changed.
Are we gonna start a new history?

It's just inevitable that circuits that are 30+ or insome instances 60+ years on the calender change over time.
I would say that the changes made to the Monaco walls have made it quite a different challenge to what it was when Senna was racing there.
But should wioe out the history because of that?

If you want to see statistics where Red Bull and Mercedes are on top of winners lost, compile wins at a circuit in the 21st century

[boillot]

You can also say that different cars can make a completey same circuit feel like a completely different challenge.
Therefore, I’m more with those who support the “Monza is Monza since 1922, changes notwithstanding” approach. I don’t have the problem with changing the first chicane but I’m myself unsure about the banking years.
Actually, this question is trickier that it seems in first place.

[Beri]

Okay, I thought it would be wise to close this discussion off and to start a seperate thread on it. Click!

[Hati]

Local paper gathered statistics about this season, here are some of them (that may or may not be mentioned already):

- First time ever all drivers got points.

- First time ever no driver changes.

- 20 drivers participating is smallest number for whole season.

- Singapore was second time in history when top six finished in same order that they started. Monaco was first.

- Since 2008 WDC has been either from Germany or Britain, latest exception was from Finland.

- Vettel and Räikkönen were only teammates that were next to each other in final standings this year.

- Räikkönen is 13th oldest GP winner with 39y. Oldest is Luigi Fagioli with 53y.

- Räikkönen has these longest spans: time between first and last victory, time between two victories, time between pole positions and number of podiums between victories.

- Worth mentioning once again: Kimi did fastest ever lap in Monza qualifying.

- Bottas didn't get to win this year. Last time a champions teammate didn't win was 2013 with Mark Webber.

- Vettel has won 13 races during his four years in Ferrari. Shumacher got 16 wins in same time and Alonso 11. Neither of them won WDC in that time.

- Mercedes got its first double win in Germany and Red Bull its first win in Red Bull Ring.

- Alonso raced third time with F1 on his birthday, only two drivers have won in their birthday, Hunt in -76 and Alesi in -95.

- Ricciardo is first driver since Jochen Rindt in 1970 to win more than one race but not getting other podiums.

- Ricciardo retired this year as many times (8) as Hamilton has retired in six years with Mercedes.

- For the third time there was a race where only both cars for one team retired, and it has been Toro Rosso every time, Japan 2009, Bahrain 2015 and Russia 2018.

[Nonesuch]

Hati, on 25 Dec 2018 - 11:30, said:

- Vettel and Räikkönen were only teammates that were next to each other in final standings this year.

 

A welcome change from last year, when (from memory) the drivers from the top four in the WCC all lined up in order. Except Bottas, but yeah.

Edited by Nonesuch, 25 December 2018 - 11:43.

[PayasYouRace]

Hati, on 25 Dec 2018 - 11:30, said:

- First time ever no driver changes.

Since 2008.

[Cornholio]

PayasYouRace, on 25 Dec 2018 - 12:41, said:

Since 2008.

Yeah. A better way to word that stat would be "first time the same set of drivers contested every race" or something. 2008 saw no teams change drivers but we lost Sato & Davidson mid-season when Super Aguri went bust.

[Myrvold]

Yup. First time we've had the same drivers in the same seats in all races.

So boring :-(

[BRG]

Myrvold, on 25 Dec 2018 - 19:49, said:

Yup. First time we've had the same drivers in the same seats in all races.

So boring :-(

Isn't it interesting, if it is the first time that it has ever happened? 

[Dan333SP]

BRG, on 27 Dec 2018 - 17:18, said:

Isn't it interesting, if it is the first time that it has ever happened? 

 

It's certainly remarkable. 

[Dan333SP]

Hati, on 25 Dec 2018 - 11:30, said:

 

- Ricciardo retired this year as many times (8) as Hamilton has retired in six years with Mercedes.

 

This is also remarkable. Not so much that DR had so many retirements (I bet someone during the Macca/Honda era had more?), but that Hamilton has had so few over such a long span. If you're a Hamilton fan and you attend a GP, you're certainly getting your money's worth. 

[Myrvold]

BRG, on 27 Dec 2018 - 17:18, said:

Isn't it interesting, if it is the first time that it has ever happened? 

 

It is, but at the same time it is quite boring.

[Bleu]

2000 (Burti for Irvine) and 2012 (d'Ambrosio for Grosjean) had one one-off replacement. 2013 we had every driver doing every race before Räikkönen went to back surgery with two races remaining.

[PayasYouRace]

There was also only a single change in 1998, when Verstappen replaced Magnussen from about Canada onwards.

[HistoryFan]

and in 2008 there were no changes. Super Aguri and their 2 drivers disappeared after 4 races but beside that, there were no changes.

[Hati]

Part two of stats from local paper:

- Bottas was second seven times, most second places in a season without victory.

- Räikkönen has a streak of 51 times in top 10 grid, since Hungary 2016. [Lets see if he can continue it with Sauber.]

- Räikkönen is in second place for races with Ferrari, he has 151 and Shumacher has 179. [With todays long seasons it wont surprise me when Vettel passes Kimi.]

- Räikkönen got fifth front row in Singapore Shanghai without pole. No one else has that stat in any track. [I guess that they count two car front rows here.]

- Hamilton got 33 race point streak.

- He also shares finishing streak with Heidfeld with that 33 finishes.

- Alonsio made finishing record, 245 times. [I would guess that it counts times when got enough laps to be classified.]

- Vettels problems in first lap shoved in statistics, he lost most places in first lap, 34.

- Lance Stroll won most places in first lap, 36.

- First time since 2008 that both Ferrari drivers won in a season.

- First front row in Monza for Ferrari in 18 years.

- No French success in French GP. There still were colors of French flag in podium with Verstappen in blue, Hamilton in white and Kimi in red.

- They compare Singapore to Monaco but only Vettel has won both in same year, 2011.

- Willimas had gotten at least one car to finish line since US gp 2015, streak ended in Germany.

- Baku is only track where someone outside of top three has gotten to podium since season 2016.

Edited by Hati, 29 December 2018 - 21:51.

[MJB5990]

Hati, on 29 Dec 2018 - 10:48, said:

Part two of stats from local paper:

- Bottas was second seven times, most second places in a season without victory.

- Räikkönen has a streak of 51 times in top 10 grid, since Hungary 2016. [Lets see if he can continue it with Sauber.]

- Räikkönen is in second place for races with Ferrari, he has 151 and Shumacher has 179. [With todays long seasons it wont surprise me when Vettel passes Kimi.]

- Räikkönen got fifth front row in Singapore without pole. No one else has that stat in any track. [I guess that they count two car front rows here.]

- Hamilton got 33 race point streak.

- He also shares finishing streak with Heidfeld with that 33 finishes.

- Alonsio made finishing record, 245 times. [I would guess that it counts times when got enough laps to be classified.]

- Vettels problems in first lap shoved in statistics, he lost most places in first lap, 34.

- Lance Stroll won most places in first lap, 36.

- First time since 2008 that both Ferrari drivers won in a season.

- First front row in Monza for Ferrari in 18 years.

- No French success in French GP. There still were colors of French flag in podium with Verstappen in blue, Hamilton in white and Kimi in red.

- They compare Singapore to Monaco but only Vettel has won both in same year, 2011.

- Willimas had gotten at least one car to finish line since US gp 2015, streak ended in Germany.

- Baku is only track where someone outside of top three has gotten to podium since season 2016.

 

It was Lewis and Max on the front row in Singapore 2018.

[Hati]

MJB5990, on 29 Dec 2018 - 21:12, said:

It was Lewis and Max on the front row in Singapore 2018.

 

Singapore - Shanghai, tomato - tomatho.

 

I don't know how that changed in translation process, there is no mention about Singapore anywhere near.

[HistoryFan]

Only 8 drivers will start the 2019 season with the same team they finished the season 2018. What are the records (most, least)?

[Anderis]

I think 2009 would be a good bet for the most. Only Vettel moved from STR to RB and Buemi replaced him at TR. All other 2008 drivers kept the same seats.

[Cornholio]

By my count* 1996 matched only 8 drivers staying put. With 8 out of 22 rather than out of 20 it was proportionally less too.

*Hill, Hakkinen, Panis, Barrichello, Frentzen, Katayama, Salo, Lamy

[Beri]

Hati, on 25 Dec 2018 - 11:30, said:

Local paper gathered statistics about this season, here are some of them (that may or may not be mentioned already):
- First time ever all drivers got points.
- First time ever no driver changes.
- 20 drivers participating is smallest number for whole season.
1 - Singapore was second time in history when top six finished in same order that they started. Monaco was first.
2 - Since 2008 WDC has been either from Germany or Britain, latest exception was from Finland.
- Vettel and Räikkönen were only teammates that were next to each other in final standings this year.
- Räikkönen is 13th oldest GP winner with 39y. Oldest is Luigi Fagioli with 53y.
- Räikkönen has these longest spans: time between first and last victory, time between two victories, time between pole positions and number of podiums between victories.
- Worth mentioning once again: Kimi did fastest ever lap in Monza qualifying.
- Bottas didn't get to win this year. Last time a champions teammate didn't win was 2013 with Mark Webber.
- Vettel has won 13 races during his four years in Ferrari. Shumacher got 16 wins in same time and Alonso 11. Neither of them won WDC in that time.
3 - Mercedes got its first double win in Germany and Red Bull its first win in Red Bull Ring.
- Alonso raced third time with F1 on his birthday, only two drivers have won in their birthday, Hunt in -76 and Alesi in -95.
- Ricciardo is first driver since Jochen Rindt in 1970 to win more than one race but not getting other podiums.
- Ricciardo retired this year as many times (8) as Hamilton has retired in six years with Mercedes.
- For the third time there was a race where only both cars for one team retired, and it has been Toro Rosso every time, Japan 2009, Bahrain 2015 and Russia 2018.

1) I am not going to look it up, but this cant be true.
2) Ill take it one step further. Since 1994, all championships have been won by a driver with the British, German, Finish or Canadian nationality. Take it a notch further and add Brazilian and French nationalities and you can go back as far as the 1985 season.
3) Nothing really special now is it?

[Cornholio]

Beri, on 02 Jan 2019 - 13:12, said:

1) I am not going to look it up, but this cant be true.
 

 

I'm not going to look it up either but it honestly wouldn't surprise me. For the vast majority of the championship's existence it was rare enough that the top six would all finish the race, let alone finish in the same order. It became more frequent from the mid-2000s but even there's so many events that can happen (spin, crash, poor start botched pit stop, or just plain old one car passing another) to any one of six cars to change the order.

[Beri]

True that. But as of the 2018 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, 997 World Championship races have been held. I can't imagine only two of them having met that specific statistic.

[PayasYouRace]

Hati, on 25 Dec 2018 - 11:30, said:

 

- Mercedes got its first double win in Germany and Red Bull its first win in Red Bull Ring.

 

 

 

Beri, on 02 Jan 2019 - 13:12, said:

3) Nothing really special now is it?

 

I think the odd thing about it is that it took this long. They could have done it in 1954, I'm sure they would have done it in 1955 if the race hadn't been cancelled in the post Le Mans scare, and really you'd have thought 2014 or 2016 would have been prime examples for them doing it for the first time. Yet again they were robbed of the chance by not having the race in 2015 or 2017.

[HistoryFan]

Colin Chapman qualified 5th at the 1956 French Grand Prix, but did not race. (although Harry Schell qualified his car).

So Chapman is the driver with the best grid place without ever driving a Grand Prix

[Dolph]

Rosberg hasn't finished an F1 race outside a podium position since his fourth place finish in 2016 Hungarian GP - more than two years ago 

Edited by Dolph, 16 January 2019 - 21:35.

[HistoryFan]

the last driver to compete in Monaco Grand Prix, Indy 500 and 24h Le Mans in one season was Jack  Brabham in 1970.

[FordFiesta]

Has it already been mentioned (?) but Hamilton is since I don't know when the driver who won the most GPs and achieved the most pole positions while driving against reigning or former or future world champions as teammates.

Record holders before that were Senna regarding poles (30 poles (?) in 1988, 1989, 1993 (Häkkinen), 1994) and Prost regarding wins (39 (?) wins in 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993).

And Hamilton up until now has achieved 50 poles and 46 wins against those kinda drivers in 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 (and no, unfortunately, Bottas is not a future champion no matter what Claire Williams said in 2013 (?)) so I temporarily stopped counting in Abu Dhabi 2016).