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#5451 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 19:13

 

 

 

But you’re right, this doesn’t really belong here.

 

*Is* there non-F1 thread?

 

 

 

https://forums.autos...#8208f1=&page=3



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#5452 HistoryFan

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Posted 29 September 2019 - 13:56

on the feed, but haven't checked this:

 

George Russell just out-qualified Robert Kubica for the 16th time in a row. Other times a driver out-qualifying their teammate that number of times in sequence were Ayrton Senna in 1986 (vs. Johnny Dumfries) and 1987 (vs. Saturo Nakajima), and Alain Prost in 1987 (vs. Stefan Johansson).

 

Alonso-Vandoorne 21:0 last season.


 



#5453 HistoryFan

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 04:38

I know this one is a bit difficult, but:

 

After the race yesterday Vettel called back V12 engines.

 

But I think that V12 engines had much more retirements than the current engines.

Has anyone details of what engine type (V6, V8, V6 turbo hybrid, V10, V12 and so on) had how many starts and how many retirements?



#5454 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 08:15

That is an useless stat. V12's were never run with reliabililty rules in mind, only performance. We also don't know how many engines were used in a weekend pre 2003. Some say top teams used one for every session and others say backfield teams ran a couple of engines/year to save money. Also, seasons were shorter, so less chances to break down. And you could of course would spin out and get stuck before an engine could fail. With all the tarmac, that happens less often.

 

Not to mention the tires that require more saving than the sprint era from 1994-2009 + Bridgestone 2010. The engines are also less taxed due to this.



#5455 Grayson

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 10:59

Slightly random question...

 

Raikkonen's going to be 40 by Mexico. Does that make him the first F1 driver in his 40s since Schumacher?

 

And who are the other recent drivers in their 40s? The only other one I can think of in the last decade or so is Pedro de la Rosa, but I'm sure I'm missing some...

 

In case you're wondering why I want to know, I've got some friends who are huge fans of Kimi Raikkonen and I want to make sure that I've got my facts right when I start making jokes at their expense!



#5456 NixxxoN

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 11:09

Slightly random question...

 

Raikkonen's going to be 40 by Mexico. Does that make him the first F1 driver in his 40s since Schumacher?

 

And who are the other recent drivers in their 40s? The only other one I can think of in the last decade or so is Pedro de la Rosa, but I'm sure I'm missing some...

 

In case you're wondering why I want to know, I've got some friends who are huge fans of Kimi Raikkonen and I want to make sure that I've got my facts right when I start making jokes at their expense!

 

You just answered yourself, de la rosa raced in 2012 with 41 y/o, I think no other drove with 40 or more. Barrichello probably closest when he retired with 39

Other than that I think Mansell drove in 1995 with more than 40, I can think of any one else recently, most old drivers raced in "ancient F1"


Edited by NixxxoN, 02 October 2019 - 11:10.


#5457 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 11:34

You just answered yourself, de la rosa raced in 2012 with 41 y/o, I think no other drove with 40 or more. Barrichello probably closest when he retired with 39

Other than that I think Mansell drove in 1995 with more than 40, I can think of any one else recently, most old drivers raced in "ancient F1"

Using statsf1.com: other drivers who participated in a Grand Prix aged 40 and more since 1985:

  • Jacques Laffite (last raced in 1986, aged 42), 
  • René Arnoux (last raced in 1989, aged 41),
  • Philippe Alliot (last raced in 1994, aged 41).

Jean-Louis Schlesser celebrated his 40th birthday the day after his infamous Monza 1988 race.



#5458 paipa

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 04:28

After 2017 Austria, this was the second race Bottas won with a lucky jump start. That's 33% of his wins.

Surely this must be a first.

#5459 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 07:11

It wasn’t Bottas who had the almost jump start in Japan.

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#5460 paipa

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 08:48

It wasn’t Bottas who had the almost jump start in Japan.

He absolutely did. https://imgur.com/gallery/pQbQ13j

1 frame between lights out and his car moving, which is fine in F1 because they don't use the 100 ms rule that IAAF does for example. But make no mistake, he just struck the jackpot there. He may be called Robottas but he still runs on a good old organic neural network with 100+ ms latency between brain and limbs.


Edited by paipa, 14 October 2019 - 08:49.


#5461 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:07

He absolutely did. https://imgur.com/gallery/pQbQ13j

1 frame between lights out and his car moving, which is fine in F1 because they don't use the 100 ms rule that IAAF does for example. But make no mistake, he just struck the jackpot there. He may be called Robottas but he still runs on a good old organic neural network with 100+ ms latency between brain and limbs.

 

Oh so he did.

 

Well I say so he did. A brilliant start is a brilliant start. Jean Alesi used to be a master of the race start. Never got the wins though.



#5462 JeePee

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:20

Dare I say he reacted on Vettels car moving? Those sort of things could give your brain a 'go' signal. 



#5463 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:24

everytime a qualifying is postponed to Sunday, a German driver is on pole:

 

Japan 2004: Michael Schumacher

Japan 2010: Sebastian Vettel

Australia 2013: Sebastian Vettel

USA 2015: Nico Rosberg

Japan 2019: Sebastian Vettel



#5464 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:27

everytime a qualifying is postponed to Sunday, a German driver is on pole:

 

Japan 2004: Michael Schumacher

Japan 2010: Sebastian Vettel

Australia 2013: Sebastian Vettel

USA 2015: Nico Rosberg

Japan 2019: Sebastian Vettel

 

I wonder if that phenomenon is related to getting up early to put your towels by the pool when on holiday?



#5465 Marklar

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:28

Dare I say he reacted on Vettels car moving? Those sort of things could give your brain a 'go' signal.

100 % that. If Vettel doesnt move early Bottas gets a normal start and might have been even involved in the Leclerc/Veratappen incident. That's how it goes sometimes :p

#5466 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:45

everytime a qualifying is postponed to Sunday, a German driver is on pole:

Japan 2004: Michael Schumacher
Japan 2010: Sebastian Vettel
Australia 2013: Sebastian Vettel
USA 2015: Nico Rosberg
Japan 2019: Sebastian Vettel


Not only german. But the only german World champion

#5467 PlatenGlass

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:19

Not only german. But the only german World champion

But that's three drivers. They can't all be the only German world champion.

In any case, Vettel was a German world champion and on the grid at the same time as Rosberg's pole.

#5468 thiscocks

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 14:32

Alonso-Vandoorne 21:0 last season.

 

And Piquet JR 2008



#5469 Blue6ix

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 16:22

Oh so he did.

 

Well I say so he did. A brilliant start is a brilliant start. Jean Alesi used to be a master of the race start. Never got the wins though.

 

Alesi did at least get single victory from the 1995 Canadian Grand Prix. :up:


Edited by Blue6ix, 14 October 2019 - 16:23.


#5470 Spillage

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:41

Kimi Raikkonen is 40 today. In Mexico he will become the 8th world champion to race on into their forties: Farina, Fangio, Brabham, G Hill, Andretti, Mansell and Schumacher were the other seven. 

 

Alan Jones was a week away from his 40th birthday when he competed in his last F1 race, the 1986 Australian GO>



#5471 Bleu

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 17:05

It will be the first race since Bahrain 2010 where we have a driver in teens, 20s, 30s and 40s on the grid. 

 

For now it will last Mexican and US GPs, but by Brazilian GP Lando Norris has turned 20.



#5472 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 18:06

It's the 4th driver at his 40 in this century (more than the last century): Barrichello, Schumacher, de La Rosa, Räikkönen



#5473 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 18:33

It will be the first race since Bahrain 2010 where we have a driver in teens, 20s, 30s and 40s on the grid. 

 

For now it will last Mexican and US GPs, but by Brazilian GP Lando Norris has turned 20.

Interestingly, Bahrain 2010 was the only race it happened (i.e., there were no drivers aged 40 and over in 2009, and there were no teens among drivers starting from Australia 2010, the second round of the season). This is a very rare situation. There are only three other cases in the past (DNQs/DNSs not included):

  • Canada 1980 (Mike Thackwell aged 19, Mario Andretti aged 40)
  • France 1963 (Chris Amon aged 19, Maurice Trintignant aged 45)
  • Italy 1961 (Ricardo Rodríguez aged 19, Maurice Trintignant aged 43, Jack Fairman aged 48)

So, assuming Norris and Räikkönen start both of the following Grands Prix, this will be the first time in history we will have had two such races in succession.

 

I did not check every race, but there have surely been a bunch of races between 1950 and 1956 with drivers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. There are 12 drivers in total who have started a World Championship Grand Prix in their 50s – the last of them was Louis Rosier at the 1956 German Grand Prix.



#5474 Clatter

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 18:56

It's the 4th driver at his 40 in this century (more than the last century): Barrichello, Schumacher, de La Rosa, Räikkönen

I might misunderstanding your post, but I'm sure there was more than 4 40 year old drivers last century.

#5475 HistoryFan

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 19:28

sorry I mean decades (2000-2009).



#5476 garoidb

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 20:00

It's the 4th driver at his 40 in this century (more than the last century): Barrichello, Schumacher, de La Rosa, Räikkönen

 

Did Rubens start a race in his 40s? 



#5477 NixxxoN

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 20:09

Did Rubens start a race in his 40s? 

 

No he didnt. He raced until the end of 2011 when he was still 39 and his 40th birthday was on 2012



#5478 Barty

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 19:38

Interestingly, Bahrain 2010 was the only race it happened (i.e., there were no drivers aged 40 and over in 2009, and there were no teens among drivers starting from Australia 2010, the second round of the season). This is a very rare situation. There are only three other cases in the past (DNQs/DNSs not included):

  • Canada 1980 (Mike Thackwell aged 19, Mario Andretti aged 40)
  • France 1963 (Chris Amon aged 19, Maurice Trintignant aged 45)
  • Italy 1961 (Ricardo Rodríguez aged 19, Maurice Trintignant aged 43, Jack Fairman aged 48)

So, assuming Norris and Räikkönen start both of the following Grands Prix, this will be the first time in history we will have had two such races in succession.

 

I did not check every race, but there have surely been a bunch of races between 1950 and 1956 with drivers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. There are 12 drivers in total who have started a World Championship Grand Prix in their 50s – the last of them was Louis Rosier at the 1956 German Grand Prix.

 

And for reference: In Bahrain 2010 Jaime Alguersari was 19 and Michael Schumacher was 41.



#5479 CoolBreeze

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:42

I know this one is a bit difficult, but:

 

After the race yesterday Vettel called back V12 engines.

 

But I think that V12 engines had much more retirements than the current engines.

Has anyone details of what engine type (V6, V8, V6 turbo hybrid, V10, V12 and so on) had how many starts and how many retirements?

 

 

That is an useless stat. V12's were never run with reliabililty rules in mind, only performance. We also don't know how many engines were used in a weekend pre 2003. Some say top teams used one for every session and others say backfield teams ran a couple of engines/year to save money. Also, seasons were shorter, so less chances to break down. And you could of course would spin out and get stuck before an engine could fail. With all the tarmac, that happens less often.

 

Not to mention the tires that require more saving than the sprint era from 1994-2009 + Bridgestone 2010. The engines are also less taxed due to this.

 

That's true. During the V10 era, I recall 1999, Hakkinen had used 200 engines per season. Factoring in testing, racing, etc. 

 

It's common for teams to have qualifying engines, and then race engines, performance vs reliability. It's 2000 onwards when we saw the V10s becoming more reliable, and by 2004 it was so much better than 1998-1999. The V8s were very reliable as well. 



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#5480 Beri

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 21:47

A question to you all, because I couldn't look it up quickly enough to satisfy my mind..
Was France 1997 the first time that three Germans took the top three spots after qualifying?
Michael Schumacher, Frentzen and Ralf Schumacher, in the case of France 1997, took the first three spots.

#5481 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 21:50

A question to you all, because I couldn't look it up quickly enough to satisfy my mind..
Was France 1997 the first time that three Germans took the top three spots after qualifying?
Michael Schumacher, Frentzen and Ralf Schumacher, in the case of France 1997, took the first three spots.

 

I think it was in world championship terms.



#5482 PlatenGlass

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 15:14

This came from a discussion in another thread https://forums.autos...ords/?p=8825803 but I'm interested in cases where drivers have won qualifying but not been credited with a pole on their stats. If a driver sets the fastest time, but this time is then disallowed then it doesn't count. It would have to be a penalty applied after qualifying but that doesn't affect the qualifying times and results. From that thread we have:

Raikkonen at Italy in 2005
Alonso at Hungary in 2007
Schumacher at Monaco in 2012

Possibly some Indy ones there but I'm not sure what the situation was with them.

I think we can add Verstappen at Mexico in 2019 to this list. He was demoted three places on the grid, but I don't think his times were deleted. I don't think they even deleted the time he set under yellows, but he had another time fast enough for pole anyway.

#5483 HistoryFan

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 20:36

Hamilton also lost out pole to Maldonado in Spain 2012.

 

Who else lost the pole because of a penately?



#5484 PlatenGlass

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 22:27

Hamilton also lost out pole to Maldonado in Spain 2012.
 
Who else lost the pole because of a penately?

Yes, but he had his times deleted so didn't "win qualifying". It's a small but important difference! But both types are interesting for the stats.

#5485 Atreiu

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 22:42

Lewis 8 wins not from pole are a record for a season, right?

#5486 HistoryFan

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:59

Yes, the record before was Schumacher (7) in 1995. Damon Hill 1994 had 5 wins without pole, the same as Vettel in 2013 and Hamilton in 2014.



#5487 HistoryFan

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:00

13 of the 18 races were not won from Pole.

 

What is the record so far? What seasons had more than 10 races won not from pole?



#5488 Hela

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:11

13 of the 18 races were not won from Pole.

 

What is the record so far? What seasons had more than 10 races won not from pole?

 

Not sure what the record is but I think in 1982 there were 14 out of 16 races not won from pole. 

 

I could be wrong but I think the above may be a record


Edited by Hela, 28 October 2019 - 11:13.


#5489 PlatenGlass

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 12:41

Yes, the record before was Schumacher (7) in 1995. Damon Hill 1994 had 5 wins without pole, the same as Vettel in 2013 and Hamilton in 2014.

Lauda also had 5 in 1984, to go with his 0 that were from pole.

#5490 Spillage

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 20:22

Interestingly Ferrari have now failed to win any of the last three races in which they were on pole. I'm not sure what the record streak is, but Montoya was on pole six times in 2002 (including five in a row) without winning any of the races.

#5491 John B

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 23:45

Prost also had 5 wins without poles in 1990.

#5492 John B

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 23:52

13 of the 18 races were not won from Pole.

What is the record so far? What seasons had more than 10 races won not from pole?


From a quick count of 1981 looks like 11 that year preceding 1982s unpredictability. Guess that happens in eras with mixed rules engine types, tires, and team/constructor organizations!

#5493 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 10:51

It's the 4th driver at his 40 in this century (more than the last century): Barrichello, Schumacher, de La Rosa, Räikkönen


More than last century? No way

Can you please explain what you ment!?

#5494 Clatter

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 11:35

More than last century? No way

Can you please explain what you ment!?

He already did, he meant decade.

#5495 Dratini

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 14:19

After Renault's brake bias fiasco, Ricciardo becomes the only driver on the grid to have been disqualified from a Grand Prix twice throughout their F1 career.



#5496 Beri

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 15:30

After Renault's brake bias fiasco, Ricciardo becomes the only driver on the grid to have been disqualified from a Grand Prix twice throughout their F1 career.


Really? Sounds like this can't be true..

#5497 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 17:31

Really? Sounds like this can't be true..

 

Not many drivers get disqualified even once.



#5498 Atreiu

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 19:37

What about Tyrell in 84?



#5499 PlatenGlass

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 20:31

What about Tyrell in 84?

I think he means on the current grid. I was WTF at first.

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#5500 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 21:39

I think he means on the current grid. I was WTF at first.

 

Fairly unambiguously:

 

After Renault's brake bias fiasco, Ricciardo becomes the only driver on the grid to have been disqualified from a Grand Prix twice throughout their F1 career.