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#51 Dan333SP

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 16:18

Regarding the team evolution question

Tyrell - BAR - Honda - Brawn - Mercedes = 5
Toleman - Benetton - Renault - Lotus = 4
Jordan - Midland - Spyker - Force India = 4
Stewart - Jaguar - RBR = 3
Sauber - BMW - Sauber = 3
Minardi - Toro Rosso = 2
Virgin - Marussua = 2


Hounarable mention...
Politoys - Iso - Williams - Wolf

 

I was thinking about this some more... It's too bad BAR didn't win a race (they finished 2nd in the constructor's title in 2004 without a win!), because they'd be the only team on this list to win at least once in each iteration.



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#52 Anderis

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 16:44

If I'm not mistaken, Mark Webber qualified in top 3 in all rainy/wet qualifying sessions between 2008 and 2012 and no other driver from that era came even close to that.


Edited by Anderis, 16 October 2015 - 16:44.


#53 zanquis

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 12:49

Thats also shocking: Verstappen will be than in his 10th F1 season, a real veteran, probably the most experienced driver on the grid - and just 27 years old...


The fun continues, as by then he will have more then 200GP driven, he can break Barrichello's record in his early 30's and if he continues like Schumacher he can be the first to reach 500 races.

Not counting deaths Alguersuari retired from racing at a younger age then most F1 drivers at their debut.

#54 Afterburner

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 14:12

Unless I'm mistaken, customer Ferrari engines are a bit of a poisoned chalice--only one team has ever won a race with a customer Ferrari engine: Toro Rosso.

#55 ensign14

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 14:26


AFAIK no driver called Smith has ever raced in F1.

 

The Italian form of the name Smith has been quite successful in F1.

 

George Amick is the most successful WDC driver ever.  Never lower than second, with a 100% podium record, and an average of 6 points per GP.

 

The highest number ever to rock up for a WDC event is 208.  Lella Lombardi DNQ'd at Britain in 1974.

 

Lella-Lombardi-Brabham-bt-42.jpg



#56 Marklar

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 14:41

Unless I'm mistaken, customer Ferrari engines are a bit of a poisoned chalice--only one team has ever won a race with a customer Ferrari engine: Toro Rosso.

Correctly

Wins with....

Ford 15 Lotus (47), McLaren (35), Tyrell (23), Williams (17), Brabham (15), Benetton (14), Matra (9), Ligier (5), March (3), Wolf (3), Hesketh (1), Penske (1), Shadow (1), Stewart (1), Jordan (1)
Renault - 5 - Williams (64), Red Bull (50), Renault (35), Benetton (12), Lotus (7)
Honda - 4 - McLaren (44), Williams (23), Honda (3), Lotus (2)
BMW - 4 - Williams (10), Brabham (8), Benetton (1), BMW Sauber (1)
Mercedes - 3 - McLaren (78), Mercedes (41), Brawn (8)
Climax - 3 - Lotus (24), Cooper (14), Brabham (2)
Ferrari - 2 - Ferrari (224), Toro Rosso (1)
BRM - 2 - BRM (17), Lotus (1)
Alfa Romeo - 2 - Alfa Romeo (10), Brabham (2)
Maserati - 2 - Maserati (9), Cooper (2)
Mugen Honda - 2 - Jordan (3), Ligier (1)
TAG Porsche - 1 - McLaren (25)
Vanwall - 1 - Vanwall (9)
Repco - 1 - Brabham (8)
Matra - 1 - Ligier (3)
Porsche - 1 - Porsche (1)
Weslake - 1 - Eagle (1)

Edited by Marklar, 18 October 2015 - 16:18.


#57 E.B.

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 15:04

George Amick is the most successful WDC driver ever. Never lower than second, with a 100% podium record, and an average of 6 points per GP.

The highest number ever to rock up for a WDC event is 208. Lella Lombardi DNQ'd at Britain in 1974.


Combining both these stats, the most successful driver in terms of win rate is Lee Wallard, and he did it with the highest numbered car ever to win a WDC event.

#58 Fatgadget

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 15:12

Unless I'm mistaken, customer Ferrari engines are a bit of a poisoned chalice--only one team has ever won a race with a customer Ferrari engine: Toro Rosso.

In all fairness,Ferrari did not enter F1 to provide engines for other teams.This was forced upon them.Understandable their awkerdness all things considered.

#59 Rob G

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 15:45

Unless I'm mistaken, customer Ferrari engines are a bit of a poisoned chalice--only one team has ever won a race with a customer Ferrari engine: Toro Rosso.

Well, not exactly. Giancarlo Baghetti's three F1 victories, including two non-championship races, were in privately-entered Ferraris.



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#60 YoungGun

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 15:54

The Hills, Rosbergs and Villenueves are the ony father and son's to have won races



#61 Dan333SP

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 16:06

Correctly
 
Wins with....
 
Ford 15 Lotus (47), McLaren (35), Tyrell (23), Williams (17), Brabham (15), Benetton (14), Matra (9), Ligier (5), March (3), Wolf (3), Hesketh (1), Penske (1), Shadow (1), Stewart (1), Jordan (1)
Renault - 5 - Williams (64), Red Bull (50), Renault (35), Benetton (12), Lotus (7)
Honda - 4 - McLaren (44), Williams (23), Honda (3), Lotus (1)
BMW - 4 - Williams (10), Brabham (8), Benetton (1), BMW Sauber (1)
Mercedes - 3 - McLaren (78), Mercedes (41), Brawn (8)
Climax - 3 - Lotus (24), Cooper (14), Brabham (2)
Ferrari - 2 - Ferrari (224), Toro Rosso (1)
BRM - 2 - BRM (17), Lotus (1)
Alfa Romeo - 2 - Alfa Romeo (10), Brabham (2)
Maserati - 2 - Maserati (9), Cooper (2)
Mugen Honda - 2 - Jordan (3), Ligier (1)
TAG Porsche - 1 - McLaren (25)
Vanwall - 1 - Vanwall (9)
Repco - 1 - Brabham (8)
Matra - 1 - Ligier (3)
Porsche - 1 - Porsche (1)
Weslake - 1 - Eagle (1)


Didn't Senna Win twice with Lotus-Honda in '87?

#62 Marklar

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 16:18

Didn't Senna Win twice with Lotus-Honda in '87?

Yeah, he did. I mistyped that

#63 jjcale

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 18:26

Thats also shocking: Verstappen will be than in his 10th F1 season, a real veteran, probably the most experienced driver on the grid - and just 27 years old...

 

Nah ... he will be burnt out by then ... either from winning or not winning..... start young, finish young  is how it usually goes.



#64 jjcale

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 18:46

Now here is the stat that has defined our times and made F1 "boring".

 

Since LH debuted in Aus 07 some 163 races ago, more than half the races have been won by either him (42) or SV (42) .....  They also have more than half the poles - 49 and 46.

 

Also, I think that they have shared more front row starts together than any 2 drivers who have never been team mates.


Edited by jjcale, 18 October 2015 - 18:47.


#65 SpartanChas

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 20:44

My favourite stat is that a country has never managed to win at the same year the football world cup and the F1 drivers world championship....Thats why the gods didnt allowed Alonso to win 2010....Lewis will be thankfull for this stat though

 

Same with Germany and Nico Rosberg in 2014. Both times the drivers went into the last race at Abu Dhabi with a chance at the title but it was denied by something else, a bad strategy (Alonso) or car failure (Rosberg-though he wouldn't really have won it anyway).



#66 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 04:13

Jan Lammers had a ten year gap between F1 races, 1982 - 1992.



#67 Atreiu

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 05:36

Now here is the stat that has defined our times and made F1 "boring".

 

Since LH debuted in Aus 07 some 163 races ago, more than half the races have been won by either him (42) or SV (42) .....  They also have more than half the poles - 49 and 46.

 

Also, I think that they have shared more front row starts together than any 2 drivers who have never been team mates.

 

 

And neither one has trully been a huge rival to the other, like Alonso. If anything it's a bromance nowadays.



#68 Ruusperi

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 07:49

Technical retirements and percentage of total races for current WDCs.

Jenson Button: 46 (16.4%)

Kimi Räikkönen: 36 (15.9%)

Fernando Alonso: 27 (10.8%)

Sebastian Vettel: 13 (8.4%)

Lewis Hamilton: 12 (7.4%)

 

For comparison, Ayrton Senna: 39 (24.2%)

 

Lewis and Vettel have only driven during the high-reliability era which may partly explains their superior win and podium count.



#69 Rinehart

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 09:46

Here's a stat that might be of interest to fans of drivers such as Kimi, Jenson or Alonso...  Longest time between successive wins – 2,402 days, Riccardo Patrese!!!

 

There's always hope. 



#70 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 09:53

If Massa wins ever again a race he will get this record

#71 Rinehart

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 10:10

If Massa wins ever again a race he will get this record

Yeah, nice one. 

Another candidate would be Mansell in Mercedes 3rd car...!!!



#72 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 10:49

Now we know why Toto wants a 3rd car...

#73 ensign14

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 10:56

The worst qualifying performance with which anyone has been allowed to start a race, without there being any special factors like only setting a time in a wet session, is that of Ottorino Volonterio at Germany in 1956.

 

You know the 107% rule?  He would have missed it.

 

Indeed he would have missed every % rule up to 146%.  Four minutes 25 slower than a pole of just under 10.

 

He got quicker in the race. He was running 6th (out of 6) at the finish.  Six laps down.  On a circuit where the lap record was 9 minutes 41.  Essentially, he lost an hour to the leader in a 3 and a half hour race.  At the Grand Prix of Naples in 1955, Ascari lapped him on lap 3. 



#74 jcbc3

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 11:41

I'd bet he had fun anyway!

#75 GhostR

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 12:40

In 1999 Michael Schumacher broke his leg, which prevented him challenging for the WDC. He then went on to win 5 WDCs in a row.

 

Another famous Michael did something very similar: Doohan broke his leg in 1992, struggled in 1993 during recovery, and then dominated to take five titles between 1994 and 1998.

 

 

To be fair some of those Honda chassis were absolute dogs despite having one of the best engines on the grid (ironically unlike today's breed of Honda...)

 

Wasn't the chassis a dog because the engine was too heavy though?

 

 

Regarding the team evolution question

Virgin - Marussua = 2

 

It's not official yet, but that will be 3: Virgin > Marussia > Manor

 

It's halfway house this year - the team want to be known as Manor, but the rules force them to continue to be Marussia.



#76 noikeee

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 19:08

It's not F1, but this is so ridiculous and they race in the same weekends as F1, it surely deserves a mention: Esteban Ocon's sublime run of consecutive 2nd places in GP3 races is currently on 9 and counting.



#77 Dan333SP

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 19:17

Technical retirements and percentage of total races for current WDCs.

Jenson Button: 46 (16.4%)

Kimi Räikkönen: 36 (15.9%)

Fernando Alonso: 27 (10.8%)

Sebastian Vettel: 13 (8.4%)

Lewis Hamilton: 12 (7.4%)

 

For comparison, Ayrton Senna: 39 (24.2%)

 

Lewis and Vettel have only driven during the high-reliability era which may partly explains their superior win and podium count.

 

What's the number for Schumacher? I bet he's somewhere between Senna and Button, given that he straddled the era when cars regularly failed 6-7 times a season and the age of near-perfect reliability that his team really set the tone for in the early 2000s.



#78 Atreiu

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 19:58

What's the number for Schumacher? I bet he's somewhere between Senna and Button, given that he straddled the era when cars regularly failed 6-7 times a season and the age of near-perfect reliability that his team really set the tone for in the early 2000s.

 

Taking a quick look at foris:

27 from 248 up until Brazil 2006.

And then 38 from 306 when he retired from Mercedes.

 

His worse season ever for unreliability was 1996, with 4 DNFs and one DNS.

6-7 per season was a thing of the 80s.


Edited by Atreiu, 19 October 2015 - 21:19.


#79 Currahee

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:15

Technical retirements and percentage of total races for current WDCs.

Jenson Button: 46 (16.4%)

Kimi Räikkönen: 36 (15.9%)

Fernando Alonso: 27 (10.8%)

Sebastian Vettel: 13 (8.4%)

Lewis Hamilton: 12 (7.4%)

 

For comparison, Ayrton Senna: 39 (24.2%)

 

Lewis and Vettel have only driven during the high-reliability era which may partly explains their superior win and podium count.

 

Any idea what Jim Clark's retirement % is?

 

I'd reckon its higher than those.



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#80 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:15

Schumacher had 68 retirements, but just 36 mechanical (thats what ruusperi counted as well for the other drivers)

So he had 11.7 %

If we just take his first career (26) = 10.5 %

#81 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:18

Any idea what Jim Clark's retirement % is?
 
I'd reckon its higher than those.

We are just talking about technical retirements. Clarks was 34.7 % (25/72)

#82 Currahee

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:30

We are just talking about technical retirements. Clarks was 34.7 % (25/72)

 

Cheers. :up:

 

Quite a high rate though.



#83 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:37

Yep, thats probably one of the highest percentages of all world champions.

Fangio, despite driving in the first era of F1, had for example "just" 27.5 %

#84 Currahee

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 20:40

Yep, thats probably one of the highest percentages of all world champions.

Fangio, despite driving in the first era of F1, had for example "just" 27.5 %

 

:lol:

 

Just 27.5.  Crazy amount.



#85 E.B.

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 21:17

Fangio, despite driving in the first era of F1, had for example "just" 27.5 %


How have you treated the occasions that he retired and then commandeered a team mate's car?

#86 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 21:34

How have you treated the occasions that he retired and then commandeered a team mate's car?

Ive included all his DNFs also when he tooked over from his team mate and retired a second time in the same race(he tooked the team mates car 9 times and DNFed 2 times again), but I just took his 51 races starts for comparison (so it is 14/51), if I add up his 9 races where he tooked over his team mate car, than he is on 23,33 % (14/60).

#87 BRG

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 17:42

We are just talking about technical retirements. Clarks was 34.7 % (25/72)

As he also won  25 of his 72 GPs, that means that he was only beaten to the chequered flag 22 times.  Which is a pretty amazing statistic, even for such an amazing driver.


Edited by BRG, 20 October 2015 - 17:42.


#88 zanquis

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 18:50

It's not F1, but this is so ridiculous and they race in the same weekends as F1, it surely deserves a mention: Esteban Ocon's sublime run of consecutive 2nd places in GP3 races is currently on 9 and counting.

if any team is ever looking for a perfect nr2 driver look no further than Ocon.

#89 zanquis

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 19:02

What's the number for Schumacher? I bet he's somewhere between Senna and Button, given that he straddled the era when cars regularly failed 6-7 times a season and the age of near-perfect reliability that his team really set the tone for in the early 2000s.


While his early years his cars where not reliable his big years the car was unbreakable, I believe he managed to get on the podium in every race for a full year.

#90 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 20:25

Jenson Button and Nico Rosberg are currently the longest serving drivers for their respective teams - 2010 onwards (6 seasons and will be 7 next year).



#91 Dan333SP

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 20:57

What driver pairing had the most race starts as teammates? Mika/DC? It has to be a pair from the last couple decades because of the increasing number of races, but I'm trying to think if there were any others that managed more than the 98 race weekends that DC and MH partook in as teammates between 1996 and 2001.



#92 Frood

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 21:04

What driver pairing had the most race starts as teammates? Mika/DC? It has to be a pair from the last couple decades because of the increasing number of races, but I'm trying to think if there were any others that managed more than the 98 race weekends that DC and MH partook in as teammates between 1996 and 2001.

 

I make Michael & Rubens 104.



#93 ensign14

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 22:18

As he also won  25 of his 72 GPs, that means that he was only beaten to the chequered flag 22 times.  Which is a pretty amazing statistic, even for such an amazing driver.

 

25 wins, 1 second.

 

Contrast Alesi.  1 win, 16 seconds.



#94 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:39

As he also won 25 of his 72 GPs, that means that he was only beaten to the chequered flag 22 times. Which is a pretty amazing statistic, even for such an amazing driver.

Additional to that he had 3 DNFs due to collisions

#95 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:42

What driver pairing had the most race starts as teammates? Mika/DC? It has to be a pair from the last couple decades because of the increasing number of races, but I'm trying to think if there were any others that managed more than the 98 race weekends that DC and MH partook in as teammates between 1996 and 2001.

As mentioned Schumacher/Rubens. From the current drivers it is Rosberg/Hamilton (53)

#96 JeePee

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:21

As mentioned Schumacher/Rubens. From the current drivers it is Rosberg/Hamilton (53)

Alonso/Massa 78.



#97 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:29

Alonso/Massa 78.

i meant current team mates

#98 djonas79

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 16:44

Ville and MS had been mentioned from 1997 when they didn't share the podium despite being the two lead drivers.

 

The same actually happened in 2012 and 2013, when Kimi and Webber never met on the podium despite driving podium calibre cars. In 2013 both had 8 podiums and only 3 races were left out (Canada, Belgium, India). In 2012 they had less podiums (Kimi 7, Webber only 4), but you can throw in Perez and Kobayashi for just the record.



#99 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 17:24

Taking a quick look at foris:

27 from 248 up until Brazil 2006.

And then 38 from 306 when he retired from Mercedes.

 

His worse season ever for unreliability was 1996, with 4 DNFs and one DNS.

6-7 per season was a thing of the 80s.

In 2001 Sch had 2 retirements and Rubens 4, but Mika and Ralf had 7, Trulli had 9, Irvine and Juan had 11. I haven't checked to see how many of those were technical or not, but a lot of people retired that year. Monaco had 9 technical GNF's, Germany 8.



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#100 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 17:48

In 2011 Massa placed 6th in the WDC without scoring a podium all season. I wonder if that's the highest placed ?