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#151 HistoryFan

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 19:47

ah okay thank you.



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#152 TheFish

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 16:47

If Button stays ahead of Alonso he'll have beaten 3 WDC winning teammates - after they were Champions too. Has anyone else managed this? 



#153 Marklar

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 16:53

If Button stays ahead of Alonso he'll have beaten 3 WDC winning teammates - after they were Champions too. Has anyone else managed this? 

Prost beat overall 5 WDC. Three of some when they were already champions (Lauda, Rosberg, Senna) and two future (Hill, Mansell)



#154 TheFish

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 17:08

I forgot that Rosberg had gone to McLaren to replace Lauda. Anyone else managed it? 



#155 Marklar

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 17:32

Jochen Rindt beat two WDC over a season (Surtees, Brabham) and two more future WDC (Fittipaldi, Andrett) over a few races of the season.

 

Otherwise: no.



#156 Myrvold

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 17:57

Jochen Rindt beat two WDC over a season (Surtees, Brabham) and two more future WDC (Fittipaldi, Andrett) over a few races of the season.

 

Otherwise: no.

 

Not as teammates though.



#157 Collombin

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 20:32

Rindt whupped Hill in 1969, why didn't that get a mention?

#158 Marklar

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 20:39

Rindt whupped Hill in 1969, why didn't that get a mention?

Probably because I confound Surtees with Hill :p

#159 Collombin

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 20:47

Probably because I confound Surtees with Hill :p


Fair enough. I actually wondered if Rindt's abysmal run of retirements that season meant he had somehow finished behind Hill in points. Which, based on form, would have been ridiculous.

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#160 cheesy poofs

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 21:30

Last 4 races ( Russian, USA, Mexican & Brazlilian GPs ) have a driver from each country participating.



#161 Dan333SP

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 22:01

Last 4 races ( Russian, USA, Mexican & Brazlilian GPs ) have a driver from each country participating.

 

This is interesting and makes me wonder... When was the last time we had a season (if ever?) when every single race had at least 1 "home" driver from that nation? I'd imagine that if it happened, it'd be in the 50s or early 60s before the sport become more commercial and started branching out of its heartland in Europe.



#162 DeKnyff

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 22:10

This is interesting and makes me wonder... When was the last time we had a season (if ever?) when every single race had at least 1 "home" driver from that nation? I'd imagine that if it happened, it'd be in the 50s or early 60s before the sport become more commercial and started branching out of its heartland in Europe.

 

Monaco makes it virtually impossible.



#163 Marklar

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 22:15

This is interesting and makes me wonder... When was the last time we had a season (if ever?) when every single race had at least 1 "home" driver from that nation? I'd imagine that if it happened, it'd be in the 50s or early 60s before the sport become more commercial and started branching out of its heartland in Europe.

It just happened 1951/52/54/59

#164 Kobasmashi

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 22:21

Monaco makes it virtually impossible.

 

Good ol' Louis Chiron.



#165 Marklar

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 22:32

Actually Monaco had three drivers in F1: Beretta (94), Chiron (50, 51, 53, 55) and Testut (58, 59).

#166 noikeee

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 00:20

Might have again in the future if Leclerc makes it.



#167 Rob G

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 01:33

It just happened 1951/52/54/59

With an asterisk by 1959, since Testut failed to qualify.



#168 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:24

Jan Lammers had a ten year gap between F1 races, 1982 - 1992.

 

Badoer did the same 1999-2009

 



#169 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:24

Regarding the team evolution question

Tyrell - BAR - Honda - Brawn - Mercedes = 5
Toleman - Benetton - Renault - Lotus = 4
Jordan - Midland - Spyker - Force India = 4
Stewart - Jaguar - RBR = 3
Sauber - BMW - Sauber = 3
Minardi - Toro Rosso = 2
Virgin - Marussua = 2


Hounarable mention...
Politoys - Iso - Williams - Wolf

 

There was also

 

Osella=>Fondmetal

March=>Leyton House => March

Arrows => Footwork => Arrows



#170 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:29

McLaren with 55 races without a win - that's a team record.



#171 HistoryFan

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:29

In Mexico there were 3 World Champions in the last 3 places at the grid (Räikkönen, Alonso, Button) - that's a record.



#172 David Lightman

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:35

Amazed that Ferrari had gone 9 years without a double non-finish, didn't think it was anywhere near that long.



#173 Les

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 22:48

Susie Wolff has retired from F1 despite never having started a race. 



#174 MLC

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 00:54

Susie Wolff has retired from F1 despite never having started a race. 

 

Or even attempting to qualify for one.



#175 Myrvold

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 02:18

Susie Wolff has retired from F1 despite never having started a race. 

 

Nope, she has retired from motorsport.



#176 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 02:43

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.



#177 Rob G

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:12

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

It happened frequently up through the early 1980s. A few notable examples:

 

BRM had three different chassis among their five cars on the grid at Monaco in 1972, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem that day since one of them won. 

 

Scuderia Ferrari fielded six cars in the 1955 Italian Grand Prix -- four Ferraris and two Lancias.

 

In several races in 1982, Brabham had a Cosworth-powered BT49C for Patrese and a turbocharged BMW-powered BT50 for Piquet. At Detroit, Patrese qualified mid-pack while Piquet was a DNQ.

 

Several other teams ran one normally-aspirated car and one turbo car simultaneously, and I believe the last one was Tyrrell in 1985.



#178 EightGear

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:35

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.


McLaren brought a GP2 car to Japan in 2015 for Alonso, while teammate Jenson Button kept using the McLaren-Honda.

#179 Jejking

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:22

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

I think we're getting in Tyrrell and Lotus territory here?



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#180 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 11:15

Lotus took it to extremes, starting a race with a car that was one half 72 and one half 76.

#181 ensign14

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 12:14

A team running different engines was not that uncommon back in the day.  E.g. Brabham in 1982, Arrows in 1984 and Tyrrell in 1985.

 

Ferrari went mental at the start of 1956 when they inherited all of the Lancia kit.  The Argentine GP featured a Lancia with Lancia engine, Ferrari with Ferrari engine, Ferrari with Lancia engine and Lancia with Ferrari bits.

 

It was significant that the more Ferrari the Lancias got, the worse they became...



#182 KavB

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 13:05

I always found it pretty fascinating that Vettel was not a world champion when he participated in the 2010 Korean Grand Prix, the race which nearly cost him the title. A year he later he came back as a double world champion.



#183 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:10

I always found it pretty fascinating that Vettel was not a world champion when he participated in the 2010 Korean Grand Prix, the race which nearly cost him the title. A year he later he came back as a double world champion.

 

I was curious if this had ever happened before (a driver lining up for a race in consecutive seasons first as a non-WDC and then as a double champ) so I did some research.

 

Just looked at Wikipedia. If the information is accurate, Jack Brabham did it at the Italian GP in 1960. He didn't clinch the '59 title until the final race at the USGP, and the Italian race was the 2nd to last of that season. In 1960, he clinched the title at the Portuguese GP which preceded the Italian GP by 1 race, so in '59 he had never won a title and in '60 he was a double world champ when lining up on the grid at Monza.

 

Any other examples of this?

 

Edit: I checked some more, and I think the only other legitimate example is Schumacher in '94/'95 with the Japanese GP.

 

He clinched the title at Adelaide in '94 which followed the Japanese race, and clinched it before Suzuka the following year so he went from 0 titles to 2 titles in between appearances at that circuit.

 

I'm honestly surprised this has happened 3 times in the sport's history, it seems like such a specific set of circumstances.


Edited by Dan333SP, 05 November 2015 - 14:14.


#184 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:20

I was curious if this had ever happened before (a driver lining up for a race in consecutive seasons first as a non-WDC and then as a double champ) so I did some research.
 
Just looked at Wikipedia. If the information is accurate, Jack Brabham did it at the Italian GP in 1960. He didn't clinch the '59 title until the final race at the USGP, and the Italian race was the 2nd to last of that season. In 1960, he clinched the title at the Portuguese GP which preceded the Italian GP by 1 race, so in '59 he had never won a title and in '60 he was a double world champ when lining up on the grid at Monza.
 
Any other examples of this?
 
Edit: I checked some more, and I think the only other legitimate example is Schumacher in '94/'95 with the Japanese GP.
 
He clinched the title at Adelaide in '94 which followed the Japanese race, and clinched it before Suzuka the following year so he went from 0 titles to 2 titles in between appearances at that circuit.
 
I'm honestly surprised this has happened 3 times in the sport's history, it seems like such a specific set of circumstances.

It happened more often if you are not limit it on 0 and 2 titles. Hamilton came last year to the Brazil GP with just one title, next week he will be there with 3.

#185 byrkus

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:21

In 2012, Vettel won five races. Bahrain, Singapore, Japan, Korea and India.

 

He thus became the first and so far only World Champion without winning any of the European rounds.



#186 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:26

I love this thread, it's so interesting.

 

Here's a question I'm not sure of the answer to. In 2002, Minardi withdrew from the Spanish GP for safety reasons (wing failures at speed in practice), which also caused Sauber's withdrawal from the Brazilian GP a couple of years before. When was the last time a team withdrew from a GP weekend because of safety concerns?

 

Edited to add: Because of mechanical issues with the car itself. The USGP 2005 would be an obvious example but that was because of the Michelins, not the cars.


Edited by Dan333SP, 05 November 2015 - 14:27.


#187 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:36

The 1999 European Grand Prix had two Stewart drivers (Johnny Herbert and Rubens Barrichello) and a Prost driver (Jarno Trulli) on the podium, so the podium consisted only of teams named after WDCs.

 

Also, Alexander Wurz holds the record for the longest gap between two consecutive podium finishes: 7 years, 9 months and 11 days between the 1997 British Grand Prix and 2005 San Marino Grand Prix. However, since he didn't actually stand on the podium in Imola (he only got 3rd place after the BARs were disqualified), it took him even more time between two consecutive times he actually was on the podium: 9 years, 10 months and 28 days between the 1997 British Grand Prix and 2007 Canadian Grand Prix.



#188 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 14:53

Regarding the earlier asked different chassis at the same race question (totally forgot that), here are the examples of all current constructors.

 

Ferrari

  • Brazil 2002
  • USA, Italy, Netherlands 1971
  • the whole 1965 season (except of Mexico)
  • the whole 1964 season (except of France, Belgium, Netherlands)
  • Italy 1963
  • Italy, Monaco 1960
  • Monaco 1959
  • Monaco, Argentina 1957
  • Germany, Argentina 1956
  • Netherlands, Monaco 1955
  • the whole 1954 season
  • Italy, Switzerland, Germany 1953
  • Germany, Britain, France, Switzerland 1952
  • the whole 1951 season (except of Spain, Belgium)
  • the whole 1950 season (except of Monaco)

 

Lotus

  • Canada, Spain 1994
  • Canada, USA West & East, Belgium, Monaco, San Marino, France 1983
  • Netherlands, Austria 1980
  • France, Monaco, Spain 1979
  • USA East, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Britain, Sweden, Spain, Belgium 1978
  • USA, Italy, Germany, Britain, South Africa 1975
  • USA, Italy, Austria, Germany, South Africa 1974
  • USA, Canada, Britain, Netherlands, Monaco 1971
  • the whole 1970 season (except of Mexico, USA, Canada)
  • the whole 1969 season (except of Netherlands, Spain)
  • France, Netherlands, Belgium, Monaco 1968
  • Mexico, Canada, Netherlands, South Africa 1967
  • the whole 1966 season
  • the whole 1965 season
  • the whole 1964 season (except of France, Netherlands)
  • the whole 1963 season
  • the whole 1962 season
  • the whole 1961 season
  • Britain, Monaco, Argentina 1960
  • Morocco, Italy, Britain, France 1958

McLaren

  • Portugal, Spain, San Marino 1995
  • Netherlands 1983
  • South Africa 1982
  • Belgium, San Marino, Argentina 1981
  • Canada, Italy, Netherlands 1980
  • Britain 1979
  • Italy, Netherlands, Austria, South Aftica, Brazil, Argentina 1978
  • Japan, Canada, USA, Italy, Netherland, Germany, Austria, Britain, France, Sweden, Belgium 1977
  • Netherlands 1976
  • South Africa 1973
  • USA, Germany, Britain, France, Belgium, Monaco 1972
  • the whole 1971 season (except of Canada, Germany, France, Netherlands)
  • the whole 1970 season (except of Mexico, Germany)
  • the whole 1969 season (except of Mexico, USA, South Africa)
  • USA, Canada, Italy, Britain, Netherlands, Belgium 1968

Mercedes

  • Italy 1955
  • Germany, Italy 1954

Williams

  • Spain 1989
  • Britain, Argentina 1980
  • Brazil 1976
  • Italy, Austria, Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, Spain 1975


#189 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:00

I did some research.

Just looked at Wikipedia.


To paraphrase Alfred E Neuman, Wikipedia is research in the same way that falling off a roof is transportation.

#190 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:04

I love this thread, it's so interesting.

 

Here's a question I'm not sure of the answer to. In 2002, Minardi withdrew from the Spanish GP for safety reasons (wing failures at speed in practice), which also caused Sauber's withdrawal from the Brazilian GP a couple of years before. When was the last time a team withdrew from a GP weekend because of safety concerns?

 

Edited to add: Because of mechanical issues with the car itself. The USGP 2005 would be an obvious example but that was because of the Michelins, not the cars.

AFAIK Minardi 2002 was the last time already.



#191 Zava

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:06

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

well it is debatable if it is a big enough difference, but in 2009 nurburgring, only Hamilton had the "B" mclaren, as the team couldn't prepare two on time.



#192 JeePee

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:10

 

Regarding the earlier asked different chassis at the same race question (totally forgot that), here are the examples of all current constructors.

 

You keep amazing me with the stats you have available



#193 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:10

Alexander Wurz holds the record for the longest gap between two consecutive podium finishes: 7 years, 9 months and 11 days between the 1997 British Grand Prix and 2005 San Marino Grand Prix.


Martin Brundle was about 8 years. Wikipedia probably disagrees but I have pics.

#194 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:11

well it is debatable if it is a big enough difference, but in 2009 nurburgring, only Hamilton had the "B" mclaren, as the team couldn't prepare two on time.

If we count that than we have almost every race different cars at the same team. It counts as a "new car" if the chassis is different (eg. Toro Rosso 2008). McLaren used all the 2009 season the same chassis, the upgrades just made it a better car.


Edited by Marklar, 05 November 2015 - 15:12.


#195 Dunc

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:16

I always found it interesting to note that Lauda had 6 seasons between his 2nd and 3rd title. Of which, of course, he only competed (just under) 4 seasons.

 

Should Alonso win the title with McLaren-Honda next year, he would take this 'record' with 9 full seasons between championships.

On a similar note Hamilton equalled Graham Hill's record for completed seasons between titles in 2014, each had five.  Alonso, Kimi and Button would all break this record and Lauda's if they get another WDC.



#196 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:18

 

Regarding the earlier asked different chassis at the same race question (totally forgot that), here are the examples of all current constructors.

 

Ferrari

  • Brazil 2002
  • USA, Italy, Netherlands 1971
  • the whole 1965 season (except of Mexico)
  • the whole 1964 season (except of France, Belgium, Netherlands)
  • Italy 1963
  • Italy, Monaco 1960
  • Monaco 1959
  • Monaco, Argentina 1957
  • Germany, Argentina 1956
  • Netherlands, Monaco 1955
  • the whole 1954 season
  • Italy, Switzerland, Germany 1953
  • Germany, Britain, France, Switzerland 1952
  • the whole 1951 season (except of Spain, Belgium)
  • the whole 1950 season (except of Monaco)

 

Lotus

  • Canada, Spain 1994
  • Canada, USA West & East, Belgium, Monaco, San Marino, France 1983
  • Netherlands, Austria 1980
  • France, Monaco, Spain 1979
  • USA East, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Britain, Sweden, Spain, Belgium 1978
  • USA, Italy, Germany, Britain, South Africa 1975
  • USA, Italy, Austria, Germany, South Africa 1974
  • USA, Canada, Britain, Netherlands, Monaco 1971
  • the whole 1970 season (except of Mexico, USA, Canada)
  • the whole 1969 season (except of Netherlands, Spain)
  • France, Netherlands, Belgium, Monaco 1968
  • Mexico, Canada, Netherlands, South Africa 1967
  • the whole 1966 season
  • the whole 1965 season
  • the whole 1964 season (except of France, Netherlands)
  • the whole 1963 season
  • the whole 1962 season
  • the whole 1961 season
  • Britain, Monaco, Argentina 1960
  • Morocco, Italy, Britain, France 1958

McLaren

  • Portugal, Spain, San Marino 1995
  • Netherlands 1983
  • South Africa 1982
  • Belgium, San Marino, Argentina 1981
  • Canada, Italy, Netherlands 1980
  • Britain 1979
  • Italy, Netherlands, Austria, South Aftica, Brazil, Argentina 1978
  • Japan, Canada, USA, Italy, Netherland, Germany, Austria, Britain, France, Sweden, Belgium 1977
  • Netherlands 1976
  • South Africa 1973
  • USA, Germany, Britain, France, Belgium, Monaco 1972
  • the whole 1971 season (except of Canada, Germany, France, Netherlands)
  • the whole 1970 season (except of Mexico, Germany)
  • the whole 1969 season (except of Mexico, USA, South Africa)
  • USA, Canada, Italy, Britain, Netherlands, Belgium 1968

Mercedes

  • Italy 1955
  • Germany, Italy 1954

Williams

  • Spain 1989
  • Britain, Argentina 1980
  • Brazil 1976
  • Italy, Austria, Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, Spain 1975

 

 

Very interesting that Brazil 2002 is the only example of this in the last 20 years (with entirely different cars, not updated chassis like the Mclaren "B" car mentioned previously).

 

I guess Ferrari could afford the luxury of delaying the introduction of a new car when the old car was probably still capable of winning the 2002 title if they'd run it the rest of that year.



#197 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:18

On a similar note Hamilton equalled Graham Hill's record for completed seasons between titles in 2014, each had five.  Alonso, Kimi and Button would all break this record and Lauda's if they get another WDC.

Alonso would even break the record for the biggest gap between the first and last title (currently 10 years hold by Schumacher)



#198 Dunc

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:32

Alonso would even break the record for the biggest gap between the first and last title (currently 10 years hold by Schumacher)

Come on Fred, do it for the record books!

 

Turkey 2010 was the last time all three drivers on the podium (Hamilton, Button and Webber) all spoke the same native language.  Anyone else know how often this has happened?  I'm guessing quite a lot in the 1950s and 1960s :drunk: .



#199 Marklar

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:40

Come on Fred, do it for the record books!

 

Turkey 2010 was the last time all three drivers on the podium (Hamilton, Button and Webber) all spoke the same native language.  Anyone else know how often this has happened?  I'm guessing quite a lot in the 1950s and 1960s :drunk: .

I can just tell you the podiums with the same nationality

  • Great Britain: Italy 1956, Belgium 1958, GB 1958, Portugal 1958, GB 1963, Netherlands 1964, GB 1964, South Africa 1965, France 1965, GB 1965, USA 1968
  • Italy: Italy 1950, Belgium 1951, France 1951, France 1952, Netherlands 1952, Netherlands 1953
  • France: South Africa 1980, France 1982, San Marino 1983


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#200 MLC

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 15:51

At Detroit, Patrese qualified mid-pack while Piquet was a DNQ.

 

 

This brings up an interesting quirk. A driver (the reigning WDC, no less) fails to qualify for a race (Piquet, Detroit 1982) and then takes pole (and victory) at the very next race (Canada).