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#201 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 16:03

This brings up an interesting quirk. A driver (the reigning WDC, no less) fails to qualify for a race (Piquet, Detroit 1982) and then takes pole (and victory) at the very next race (Canada).

 

Piquet did win the race, but I thought Pironi had pole at Montreal in '82? I remember because of the infamous stall on the start line that led to Paletti's tragic death.

 

Guess the Detroit DNQ was down to inconsistent BMW turbos of that year.



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#202 Dunc

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 16:04

 

I can just tell you the podiums with the same nationality

  • Great Britain: Italy 1956, Belgium 1958, GB 1958, Portugal 1958, GB 1963, Netherlands 1964, GB 1964, South Africa 1965, France 1965, GB 1965, USA 1968
  • Italy: Italy 1950, Belgium 1951, France 1951, France 1952, Netherlands 1952, Netherlands 1953
  • France: South Africa 1980, France 1982, San Marino 1983

 

When drivers from the old Commonwealth and the USA were prominent in F1 in the 1960s I reckon there must have been a lot of podiums when every driver spoke English as a native language.

 

I'm surprised Germany isn't on that list considering how many drivers they provideed F1 with in the late '90s/2000s.



#203 MLC

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 16:11

Piquet did win the race, but I thought Pironi had pole at Montreal in '82? I remember because of the infamous stall on the start line that led to Paletti's tragic death.

 

Guess the Detroit DNQ was down to inconsistent BMW turbos of that year.

 

Ahhh, I think you are right. 



#204 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 16:11

When drivers from the old Commonwealth and the USA were prominent in F1 in the 1960s I reckon there must have been a lot of podiums when every driver spoke English as a native language.

 

I'm surprised Germany isn't on that list considering how many drivers they provideed F1 with in the late '90s/2000s.

 

 

Right, you'd think that at some point some combination of MSC, Ralf, Frentzen, and Heidfeld would have ended up locking out the podium, but I guess 3 of the 4 weren't ever really in competitive cars at the same time other than perhaps 2003 with both Schumachers winning races and Frentzen/Heidfeld in a Sauber that was capable of a single podium that season.



#205 PlatenGlass

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 17:04

Nope, she has retired from motorsport.

Including F1.

#206 PlatenGlass

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:00

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.
 
How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

In addition to those mentioned, those of you who watch the F1 Rewind programmes with Suzy Perry and Murray Walker might have noticed at Long Beach in 1983 the Renault team had Prost in the new car and Cheever in the 1982 car.

#207 PlatenGlass

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 18:03

I was curious if this had ever happened before (a driver lining up for a race in consecutive seasons first as a non-WDC and then as a double champ) so I did some research.
 
Just looked at Wikipedia. If the information is accurate, Jack Brabham did it at the Italian GP in 1960. He didn't clinch the '59 title until the final race at the USGP, and the Italian race was the 2nd to last of that season. In 1960, he clinched the title at the Portuguese GP which preceded the Italian GP by 1 race, so in '59 he had never won a title and in '60 he was a double world champ when lining up on the grid at Monza.
 
Any other examples of this?
 
Edit: I checked some more, and I think the only other legitimate example is Schumacher in '94/'95 with the Japanese GP.
 
He clinched the title at Adelaide in '94 which followed the Japanese race, and clinched it before Suzuka the following year so he went from 0 titles to 2 titles in between appearances at that circuit.
 
I'm honestly surprised this has happened 3 times in the sport's history, it seems like such a specific set of circumstances.

While I dispute that someone actually is the champion when they have clinched the title (I would say that we just know that they are going to be champion rather than that they actually are), I think this is quite interesting and it reminded me of a slightly similar thing. After Monza 2000, Schumacher and Hakkinen were both double world champions, and Hakkinen was leading the championship with a good chance of adding a third. Fast forward less than two years (to France 2002), and Schumacher had just clinched his fifth title with Hakkinen still on two.

#208 Dan333SP

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 21:51

In addition to those mentioned, those of you who watch the F1 Rewind programmes with Suzy Perry and Murray Walker might have noticed at Long Beach in 1983 the Renault team had Prost in the new car and Cheever in the 1982 car.

 

How'd they run an '82 car in '83? Did they just block off the tunnels entirely? That was a pretty big rule change, I'd normally think one team running 2 cars of different years would only happen during a period of rules stability.



#209 scheivlak

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 22:18

I was curious if this had ever happened before (a driver lining up for a race in consecutive seasons first as a non-WDC and then as a double champ) so I did some research.

 

Just looked at Wikipedia. If the information is accurate, Jack Brabham did it at the Italian GP in 1960. He didn't clinch the '59 title until the final race at the USGP, and the Italian race was the 2nd to last of that season. In 1960, he clinched the title at the Portuguese GP which preceded the Italian GP by 1 race, so in '59 he had never won a title and in '60 he was a double world champ when lining up on the grid at Monza.

 

Apart from the fact that he didn't line up on the grid at Monza  :D



#210 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 23:52

Apart from the fact that he didn't line up on the grid at Monza  :D


Stop this now. Knowledge? Context? Arrgh. Our spreadsheets can't cope.

#211 PlatenGlass

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 23:55

How'd they run an '82 car in '83? Did they just block off the tunnels entirely? That was a pretty big rule change, I'd normally think one team running 2 cars of different years would only happen during a period of rules stability.

Don't know but you can see them both running close to each other here:

They both ran the old car in Brazil.

#212 Marklar

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 06:48

Actually it was not the 82 car, it was some kind of b-version. It was just used for Long Bech and for both cars in Brazil.

#213 SenorSjon

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:54

Taking a quick look at foris:

27 from 248 up until Brazil 2006.

And then 38 from 306 when he retired from Mercedes.

 

His worse season ever for unreliability was 1996, with 4 DNFs and one DNS.

6-7 per season was a thing of the 80s.

 

Was the DNS the French blowup in the warming up lap? 

 

Hamilton is the first driver to get 10(+) wins in 2 consecutive seasons.

 

We also have 20 race seasons now. ;)

 

Monaco makes it virtually impossible.

 

Lol, Azerbeidjan makes it impossible. ;)

 

I was watching a 2002 season review and I remembered something that interested me at the time. Ferrari appeared at the Brazilian GP with 2 different cars, the F2002 for MSC and the F2001 for RB, as only a single newer chassis was available. Rubens even passed the newer car in the "old" F2001 for the lead at one stage while on a light fuel load.

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

 

It is forbidden these days. But if FIA is serious about costs, they shouldn't mandate teams to build new cars every year.

 

In 2012, Vettel won five races. Bahrain, Singapore, Japan, Korea and India.

 

He thus became the first and so far only World Champion without winning any of the European rounds.

 

The number of European rounds is also in decline. ;)



#214 Marklar

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 12:40

GP victorys of current  drivers by continents (at least 10 victories)

             Europe                    Asia                Nortamerica               Southamerica              Australia
          Races   Wins              Races  Wins            Races  Wins               Races   Wins             Races Wins
Hamilton  76      17    22.37 %      58     16   27.59 %    14     8      57.14 %      8      0       0.00 %    9     2    22.00 %
Vettel    71      13    18.31 %      56     24   42.86 %    13     2      15.38 %      8      2      25.00 %    8     1    12.50 %
Alonso    128     17    13.28 %      74     13   17.57 %    23     1       4.35 %     13      0       0.00 %    13    1     7.70 %
Raikkonen 121     11     9.09 %      62     5     8.06 %    22     1       4.54 %     11      1       9.09 %    13    2    15.38 %
Button    147     6      4.08 %      84     4     4.76 %    27     1       3.70 %     15      1       6.67 %    16    3    18.75 %
Rosberg   86      8      9.30 %      62     1     1.60 %    16     1       6.25 %      9      1      11.11 %    10    1    10.00 %
Massa     116     7      6.03 %      67     2     3.00 %    20     0       0.00 %     11      2      18.18 %    13    0     0.00 %

             Europe      Asia       North America   South America  Australia
Hamilton     39.53 %    37.20 %        18.60 %         0.00 %        4.65 %
Vettel       30.95 %    57.14 %         4.76 %         4.76 %        2.38 %
Alonso       53.13 %    40.63 %         3.13 %         0.00 %        3.13 %
Raikkonen    55.00 %    25.00 %         5.00 %         5.00 %       10.00 %
Button       40.00 %    26.67 %         6.67 %         6.67 %       20.00 %
Rosberg      66.67 %     8.33 %         8.33 %         8.33 %        8.33 %
Massa        63.64 %    18.18 %         0.00 %        18.18 %        0.00 %


#215 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:20

Another question I'm sure Marklar can dig up the answer to-

 

How many times have GPs been run in locations/countries that don't match the name of the GP?

For example, I'm thinking of the "Luxembourg GP" that was held at the Nurburgring and the "Swiss GP" at Dijon. I guess next year's "European GP" in Baku would also qualify, as far as I understand it part of the country is technically in/bordering Europe but the city of Baku is definitely in Asia. Also, Imola technically isn't within the borders of San Marino, yet it was titled the San Marino GP (and also the Italian GP depending on the season).

 

Are there any other examples of this?



#216 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:25

Another question I'm sure Marklar can dig up the answer to-

 

How many times have GPs been run in locations/countries that don't match the name of the GP?

For example, I'm thinking of the "Luxembourg GP" that was held at the Nurburgring and the "Swiss GP" at Dijon. I guess next year's "European GP" in Baku would also qualify, as far as I understand it part of the country is technically in/bordering Europe but the city of Baku is definitely in Asia. Also, Imola technically isn't within the borders of San Marino, yet it was titled the San Marino GP (and also the Italian GP depending on the season).

 

Are there any other examples of this?

The Pacific Grand Prix was held on a race track on land roughly 30 km from the Pacific Ocean.



#217 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:28

I'm sure there are some people in Montreal that would argue that the Canadian GP doesn't take place in Canada, it takes place in Quebec :smoking:



#218 Marklar

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:34

Exactly all those GPs you have already listed: 29 GPs all together

 

Luxembourg GP (N├╝rnburgring): 1997, 1998

San Marino GP (Imola): 1981-2006

Switzerland GP (Dijon): 1982



#219 noikeee

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:40

The Pacific Grand Prix was held on a race track on land roughly 30 km from the Pacific Ocean.

:D

 

Bit OT, but I wonder what was the backstory on that. Why on earth did F1 decide it was a good idea to go to a mickey-mousey track for a second Japanese GP?



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#220 Marklar

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:46

:D

 

Bit OT, but I wonder what was the backstory on that. Why on earth did F1 decide it was a good idea to go to a mickey-mousey track for a second Japanese GP?

I could ask the same question about almost every new GP in the last couple of years...



#221 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 14:58

:D

 

Bit OT, but I wonder what was the backstory on that. Why on earth did F1 decide it was a good idea to go to a mickey-mousey track for a second Japanese GP?

 

I'm sure someone can fill in the backstory on that, but I was interested to find out that the title "Pacific GP" was given to a series of non-championship F1 races that took place at Laguna Seca between 1960 and 1963.

 

Also, another interesting bit of trivia- MSC won both Pacific GPs at the track now known as Okayama. He also won the only major international race held at another Japanese venue with F1 aspirations, Autopolis, driving a Mercedes Group C car in 1991 in the world sportscar championship.



#222 ensign14

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:03

1. How many circuits have sponsored Grand Prix teams?

 

2. How many circuits have sponsored Grand Prix teams to drum up support for a Grand Prix which will never take place?

 

The answer to these is at least 1, as Autopolis sponsored Benetton for a while, but the Japanese economy collapsed before the Pacific GP could be held there.  If I remember rightly, Autopolis was about as close to large population centres as Tristan da Cunha. 



#223 Tsarwash

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:37

Monaco makes it virtually impossible.

Didn't Nico Rosberg grow up in Monaco ?

#224 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 15:40

Didn't Nico Rosberg grow up in Monaco ?

 

When I think of Nico's life to date, I think of this (barely) satirical article on The Onion-

 

http://www.theonion....ie-life-o-34704



#225 DampMongoose

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:16

 

How many times has a multi-car team showed up for a race with 2 or more different cars and actually started the race with multiple types? I'm sure it was fairly common through the 70s, but I'm still curious of any famous examples.

 

Sorry if anyone else has mentioned this...

 

BRM turned up for many 1972 GP's with 4 or 5 cars, mostly all competing in the races too.   P180's, P160b's and c's and P153's. 

 

Monaco was a particular example in line with your post Dan, as they brought 5 cars and raced 3 different versions. Beltoise recorded BRM's final race win in one of the two 160b's, Marko in a 153b was classified 8th and the P180 for Ganley retired from a crash just after half distance. Gethin disqualified for an issue being pushed in the pits and the other 160b was retired by Wisell after 16 laps. 

 

With a bottomless pit of Philip Morris funding, BRM was supposedly meant to run 6 cars at the races in 1972, 3 P180's in Marlboro colours and the other 3 P160's in the national Marlboro liveries.  

 

 

Edit: Apologies, I couldn't see Rob G's answer for looking.  (only one post down from your question Dan)  :drunk:  Bit more info can't hurt though can it?


Edited by DampMongoose, 06 November 2015 - 16:20.


#226 noikeee

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 16:34

Still on the Pacific Grand Prix, and I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere around here recently but not in this thread, that must be the only example ever in which a team participated in an event with the same name. Pacific Grand Prix raced on the Pacific Grand Prix.



#227 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 17:00

Still on the Pacific Grand Prix, and I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere around here recently but not in this thread, that must be the only example ever in which a team participated in an event with the same name. Pacific Grand Prix raced on the Pacific Grand Prix.

 

Good call. I'd guess the closest anyone else could come to that would have been USF1 if they'd actually got off the ground and made it to a USGP at COTA. Other than that, I can't imagine any other scenario where the team name and race name were similar, much less identical.



#228 Collombin

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 17:10

The NART Ferraris in the US GP would be close.

Also, don't some team names officially include the sponsor? So JPS Lotuses at the John Player British GP etc?

#229 BRG

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 18:45

I'm sure there are some people in Montreal that would argue that the Canadian GP doesn't take place in Canada, it takes place in Quebec :smoking:

And plenty in Barcelona who would argue that the Spanish GP doesn't take place in Spain, it takes place in Catalunya.

 

Then there is the Belgian GP in Wallonia...


Edited by BRG, 06 November 2015 - 18:47.


#230 DampMongoose

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 21:08

The NART Ferraris in the US GP would be close.

Also, don't some team names officially include the sponsor? So JPS Lotuses at the John Player British GP etc?


ING Australian Gp with ING Renaults?

#231 midgrid

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 22:21

1. How many circuits have sponsored Grand Prix teams?

2. How many circuits have sponsored Grand Prix teams to drum up support for a Grand Prix which will never take place?

The answer to these is at least 1, as Autopolis sponsored Benetton for a while, but the Japanese economy collapsed before the Pacific GP could be held there. If I remember rightly, Autopolis was about as close to large population centres as Tristan da Cunha.


The Bahraini government (essentially the same entity as the circuit) sponsored Jordan in 2004.

Edit: The Shanghai Circuit also sponsored Jordan in 2003.

Edited by midgrid, 06 November 2015 - 22:26.


#232 Dan333SP

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 16:17

Here's one that even Marklar may not have known-

 

Every year between 1992 and 2004, the polesitter for the Spanish GP went on to win the world championship.

 

Raikkonen took pole in 2005 and broke that streak.

 

Any other unexpected indicators that are consistent year to year?



#233 ElJefe

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 16:22

Still on the Pacific Grand Prix, and I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere around here recently but not in this thread, that must be the only example ever in which a team participated in an event with the same name. Pacific Grand Prix raced on the Pacific Grand Prix.

 

Scuderia Italia racing at the Italian Grand Prix. 



#234 Marklar

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 19:25

Here's one that even Marklar may not have known-

 

Every year between 1992 and 2004, the polesitter for the Spanish GP went on to win the world championship.

 

Raikkonen took pole in 2005 and broke that streak.

 

Any other unexpected indicators that are consistent year to year?

I actually knew that :p

 

Since 2005 the winner of the Hungarian GP has not won the championship is another one for example.

 

OR

 

Whenever a team celebrated a 1-2 victory in the opening race of the season the driver who won, went to win the championship.

 

OR
 

Since 2007 the driver who grabbed the pole position in the opening race of the season, went to win the championship. The only exception was Lewis Hamilton in 2012 and that was only down to reliability.


Edited by Marklar, 12 November 2015 - 19:29.


#235 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 19:47

Well, Alonso failed to win 2010

#236 Marklar

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 19:53

Well, Alonso failed to win 2010

Oops, sorry. Will look it up later. I just knew these examples by heart. Maybe it was a exception or it was front row lookup+ 1-2 victory.

 

But I have another one: whenever a country won the football world cup drivers from that country didnt won the championship. Thats why Alonso failed in 2010 :p



#237 MLC

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 20:41



Here's one that even Marklar may not have known-

 

Every year between 1992 and 2004, the polesitter for the Spanish GP went on to win the world championship.

 

Raikkonen took pole in 2005 and broke that streak.

 

Any other unexpected indicators that are consistent year to year?

 

 

Did Raikkonen break the streak, or did Alonso?  ;)



#238 BRG

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 21:31

 

But I have another one: whenever a country won the football world cup drivers from that country didnt won the championship. Thats why Alonso failed in 2010 :p

There is a point to be made here about England's relative performances in football and in motor sport.

 

But I am not sure what it is...



#239 Dan333SP

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 21:33

Did Raikkonen break the streak, or did Alonso?  ;)

head-explode.png?height=320&width=255



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#240 Wendigo

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 21:53

In the last 25 years only 3 drivers have won the WDC in a car that was not designed by Adrian Newey or Ross Brawn/Byrne

 

1990 & 1991 - Ayrton Senna

2005 & 2006 - Fernando Alonso

2008, 2014, 2015 - Lewis Hamilton


Edited by Wendigo, 12 November 2015 - 22:05.


#241 scheivlak

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:01

In the last 25 years only 3 drivers have won the WDC in a car that was not designed by Adrian Newey or Ross Brawn/Byrne

 

1990 & 1991 - Ayrton Senna

2005 & 2006 - Fernando Alonso

2007, 2014, 2015 - Lewis Hamilton

So Ross Brawn designed the 2009 winner himself?

 

A well kept secret  :D



#242 Marklar

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:02

Well, Alonso failed to win 2010

Ive looked it up, it wasnt even the only exception, so it is BS anyway. I guess 1-2 victory + front-row lock-up where meant when I heared from this stat.

#243 Marklar

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:03

In the last 25 years only 3 drivers have won the WDC in a car that was not designed by Adrian Newey or Ross Brawn/Byrne
 
1990 & 1991 - Ayrton Senna
2005 & 2006 - Fernando Alonso
2007, 2014, 2015 - Lewis Hamilton


So Ross Brawn designed the 2009 winner himself?
 
A well kept secret  :D

More important: Hamilton won the championship in 2007?!

#244 Wendigo

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:05

So Ross Brawn designed the 2009 winner himself?

 

A well kept secret  :D

 

Not necessarily designed but with his involvement in capacity as a TP



#245 Wendigo

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:06

More important: Hamilton won the championship in 2007?!

 

apologies I meant 2008



#246 sportingcp

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 22:37

Talking about the Pacific Grand Prix (team), not exactly related to the topic but: http://www.pacificgrandprix.com/



#247 Glengavel

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 09:19

 

 

Whenever a team celebrated a 1-2 victory in the opening race of the season the driver who won, went to win the championship.

 

 

Clark/Hill scored a 1-2 in the 1968 South African GP, and look how that turned out... :(



#248 Marklar

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 09:22

Clark/Hill scored a 1-2 in the 1968 South African GP, and look how that turned out... :(

Yeah, I know. :cry:

 

I already found 3 examples which broke this "rule". Probably something else was meant but I cant figure out anymore what.



#249 FerrariV12

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 10:02

Still on the Pacific Grand Prix, and I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere around here recently but not in this thread, that must be the only example ever in which a team participated in an event with the same name. Pacific Grand Prix raced on the Pacific Grand Prix.

 

Not only that, but the two years the race was held - 1994 and 1995 - were also the only two years that the team was active in F1.



#250 cheesy poofs

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 15:39

1990 saw the use of 9 different engine variations from Ferrari, Honda, Ford (2), Renault, Lamborghini, Judd, Subaru and Life.