54 replies to this topic

[Damsel]

I saw this topic on another forum and thought it was a fun one, so here we go:

With the changing of the guard in F1 going on and young talents slowly replacing the oldies, hoe do you rate them against eachother? Based on current performance, karting/junior categories, and future potential?

I’ve left some out, like Vandoorne, because I think he won’t be coming back (although deserved another chance I think) and like Stroll, because, well.... he’s Stroll. 😉 But if you want to include those, be my guest.

I would rate them as follows:

Max > Leclerc > Ocon > Gasly

Max I feel is still a cut above the rest. Both Charles and Ocon have put in really solid and impressive performances and have stellar junior results, but neither made me sit up in amazement with sensational moves like Max did in his rookie year. I also really rate Ricciardo and I feel Max has been better than Danny Ric since 2017. The incidents in the beginning of this year were a bit of a shock, but good to see that he seems to have learned from those mistakes, while still being a bit of a streetfighter out there. I just can’t remember being as impressed with a new driver since Lewis came in.

I’m finding it really hard to compare Ocon and Leclerc. Both seem like genuine talents. I feel Charles might have the potential to be up there with Max, mainly based on his pre f1 career, but I haven’t seen enough of him in f1 to be sure. He’s been impressive, but the improved Sauber and the fact that he’s up against Ericsson could flatter him. We’ll see next year, I can see him being excellent, so I’ve put him above Ocon on expectation.

Ocon seems really good, but more like Hulk is very good but not top tier. Maybe he is or could be in the future, but the fact that Merc didnt give him a seat in 2017 and reportedly did talk to Max that year makes me think that they don’t rate him as a must have talent. A talent nonetheless though, who should absolutely be in F1, I don’t rule out at all that he could be fab at a top team someday.

Gasly had been a bit of a surprise this year, he’s been really excellent in TR, but it took Marko a while to put him in and he was up and down in the lower categories, which is why I rate him last out of these 4 guys. I’m thinking he might be one of those drivers that get better and better. Bit like Ricciardo Maybe.

[Beamer]

Hard to say. Max and ocon raced each other in f3. Ocon being the more experienced at a better team, won the title fair and square, but max did beat him thoroughly 2nd half of the season. I can see max and leclerc having fierce battles for years to come. Gasly will have a pivotal year 2018. Being up Against max as a newcomer in the big league ain't going to be easy.

[haryantofan666]

Leclerc and Gasly are difficult to rate because they don't have established teammates. They could be just as good as Verstappen or they could be at Vandoorne's level, who knows.

[Rors]

So you don't rate Gasly because of lower category even though was GP2 champ but you are willing to give Max a pass in the lower category?  And I don't understand what you mean by Marko taking time to put him him in? He got a 4th place in his 2nd race as a rookie (better 2nd race score by any rookie since Lewis Hamilton) Also he was driving one of the worst cars on the grid with the worst engine. So it's just as good as a win imo. 

 

And when you compare his performance against his team mate. its the largest & margin against a team mate in well over a decade.  

 

Gasly     14x his team mates points

Leclerc   2x

Max.      1.1x

Ocon     0.97x

 

He also has and the best stats with places gained after first lap. (Better than any driver on the grid)

 

I'd rate them - Max>Gasly>Leclerc>Ocon 

[tmekt]

All racing for different teams so no real comparison can be made. Max is the only one that has more or less proven himself against a so-called top driver.

[ANF]

Ocon > Leclerc > Verstappen > Gasly

[noikeee]

This is still all a bit up in the air at the moment as drivers develop and meet more established teammates, but I'd agree with the OP's "ranking" (Max-Charles-Ocon-Pierre), with the caveat I actually think Gasly at his best is faster than Ocon. But Ocon seems a more consistent, dependable pair of hands.

[DILLIGAF]

Just my opinion but I think Verstappen and Leclerc will be the two dominant drivers out of the four mentioned. Who gets what car will have a huge influence on which of the four will win more races and titles.

[LuckyStrike1]

Max Verstappen is the proven quantity in F1 of these four. 
He has shown in can win races, take poles and score consistent results. He needs to show he can be consistent over a full season, iron out mistakes due to aggressive driving and if he gets the chance show he can lead a championship challenge with all the pressures involved. 

Esteban Ocon is still relatively unproven. He has been consistent in the midfield, and handled the challenge of a much more experience teammate without being able to dominate him. He has yet quite a lot to prove. Can he handle the challenge of a top seat if getting into one? The fact Mercedes decided against bringing him up to them after two seasons in F1 says something. 

Charles Leclerc will prove himself next year. He has dominated a weak teammate this year, and thanks to a much improved Sauber being able to score consistent results in the points which has raised his stock a lot. But he will be tested next year, and it is far from clear he will be able to step up but signs are positive. 

Pierre Gasly is the most unproven of these but much like Leclerc he will have a chance to prove himself next year. He's had a good rookie year, but a bit inconsistent. He will have a good benchmark next year. 

In summary: 
Max Verstappen has established himself. and is the benchmark in this class of the new generation of potential future superstars. 

The other three has a lot to prove, two will have a chance to do that next year while the third looks to be benched and has been passed (for now) by his own team which does say something. 

[sopa]

I thought driver comparison threads (without them being team-mates) were not allowed?

 

This is still all a bit up in the air at the moment as drivers develop and meet more established teammates, but I'd agree with the OP's "ranking" (Max-Charles-Ocon-Pierre), with the caveat I actually think Gasly at his best is faster than Ocon. But Ocon seems a more consistent, dependable pair of hands.

 

Makes sense with the little information we currently have, though I'm not convinced Gasly at his best is necessarily better than Ocon. Ocon has outqualified Perez 10-3, so he certainly has some serious speed in him. And he has had some strong races too, like Monaco or UK.

[Thatfastguy]

Verstappen —> Leclerc —> Ocon —> Gasly

[Starchild]

Verstappen > Leclerc > Gasly > Ocon

 

but, don't forget Norris and Russell, those two are also stars of the future, maybe some other drivers as well who are still in lower series (F3, F2.0)

 

but out of those 6 imo:

Verstappen > Leclerc > Russel > Gasly > Norris > Ocon

Edited by Starchild, 15 September 2018 - 11:11.

[sopa]

I'd like to see Russell and Norris in F1 before giving a judgement on them. We have been fooled too many times by GP2 form in the past.

[Lights]

Verstappen > Leclerc > Gasly > Ocon

 

but, don't forget Norris and Russell, those two are also stars of the future, maybe some other drivers as well who are still in lower series (F3, F2.0)

 

but out of those 6 imo:

Verstappen > Leclerc > Russel > Gasly > Norris > Ocon

 

So Ocon is matching Perez (who beat Hulkenberg!) and drivers that aren't even in F1 yet are already better than him (+ Perez & Hulkenberg)?

 

Some people really underestimate what it takes to beat Perez as opposed to a Hartley or Ericsson.

[Damsel]

So you don't rate Gasly because of lower category even though was GP2 champ but you are willing to give Max a pass in the lower category? And I don't understand what you mean by Marko taking time to put him him in? He got a 4th place in his 2nd race as a rookie (better 2nd race score by any rookie since Lewis Hamilton) Also he was driving one of the worst cars on the grid with the worst engine. So it's just as good as a win imo.

I mean that Marko gave Kvyat another year (more or less) before giving Gasly a shot, shipping Pierre off to Japan first. That made my expectations of him rather low, but I’ve actually been very impressed by him, so I absolutely do rate him.

Edited by Damsel, 15 September 2018 - 11:24.

[sopa]

At least we will get our answers about Leclerc and Gasly next year. Vettel and Verstappen will be one hell of benchmarks.

[RPM40]

Verstappen has more success thus far, but I expect that to change rapidly next year with leclerc driving that Ferrari. I think he'll emerge as the driver fighting at the front.

[statman]

They all raced each other throughout their international junior careers but chose different paths. One decided to dominate karting (Verstappen) while another decided to quickly change to cars (Gasly) for example

 

 

Verstappen:

2010: WSK Nations Cup - KF3 - 1st

2010: WSK World Series - KF3 - 1st

2010: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 1st

2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 2nd

2010: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 1st

2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 1st

2011: WSK Master Series - KF2 - 1st

2012: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF2 - 2nd

2013: CIK-FIA World KZ Championship - 1st

2013: CIK-FIA European Championship - KZ - 1st

2013: WSK Master Series - KZ2 - 1st

2013: WSK Euro Series - KZ1 - 1st

2013: CIK-FIA World Championship - KF - 3rd

2013: CIK-FIA European Championship KF - 1st

 

2014: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 3rd

2015: Formula 1

 

 

Leclerc:

2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 29th

2011: WSK Master Series - KF3 - 15th

2011: WSK Final Cup - KF3 - 2nd

2011: ERDF Masters Kart - Junior - 1st

2011: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF3 - 1st

2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 23rd

2012: WSK Final Cup - KF2 - 5th

2012: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF2 - 5th

2012: CIK-FIA European KF2 Championship - 2nd

2012: CIK-FIA U18 World Karting Championship - 2nd

2012: WSK Euro Series - KF2 - 1st

2012: WSK Master Series - KF2 - 20th

2013: WSK Master Series - KZ2 - 4th

2013: CIK-FIA World KZ Championship - 2nd

2013: WSK Euro Series - KZ1 - 12th

2013: CIK-FIA European Championship - KZ - 6th

 

2014: Formula Renault 2.0 Alps - 2nd

2015: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 4th

2016: GP3 Series - 1st

2017: FIA Formula 2 Championship - 1st

2018: Formula 1

 

 

 

Ocon:

2009: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 4th

2009: WSK International Series - KF3 - 35th

2010: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 6th

2010: WSK Nations Cup - KF3 - 6th

2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 7th

2011: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF3 - 14th

2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 2nd

 

2012: Formula Renault 2.0 Alps - 7th

2013: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 3rd

2014: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 1st

2015: GP3 Series - 1st

2016: Formula 1

 

 

Gasly:

2009: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 3rd

2009: CIK-FIA European Championship - KF3 - 23rd

2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 4th

2010: CIK-FIA European Championship - KF3 - 2nd

 

2011: French F4 Championship - 3rd

2012: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 10th

2013: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 1st

2014: Formula Renault 3.5 Series - 2nd

2015: GP2 Series - 8th

2016: GP2 Series - 1st

2017: Formula 1

[Starchild]

So Ocon is matching Perez (who beat Hulkenberg!) and drivers that aren't even in F1 yet are already better than him (+ Perez & Hulkenberg)?

 

Some people really underestimate what it takes to beat Perez as opposed to a Hartley or Ericsson.

I didn't say they are already better than Ocon, i meant that I see them as drivers with better potential/talent to be at the front in the future. I see Verstappen, Leclerc and Russell as a possible future world champions, while Gasly, Norris and Ocon are obviously very good drivers but I see them in upper midfield more than future world champs material. And of course it's only my prediction/opinion. I could be wrong...

[LeClerc]

Hmm, my gif didn't gif..

 

Never mind, I'm getting pop-corn, cause this is going to be very entertaining....

Edited by LeClerc, 15 September 2018 - 11:45.

[Anderis]

If I were a team boss searching for a driver for 2019, I would take them in that order Verstappen > Leclerc > Ocon > Gasly, although all of them could use more time and another team-mate for proper evaluation. With Verstappen being paired against Gasly next year and Leclerc being paired against a multiple WDC as a team-mate, things can change really quickly. For Ricciardo, 2014 alone was enough to start being rated much higher than previously.

[McLaren]

Max Verstappen is the proven quantity in F1 of these four. 
He has shown in can win races, take poles and score consistent results. He needs to show he can be consistent over a full season, iron out mistakes due to aggressive driving and if he gets the chance show he can lead a championship challenge with all the pressures involved. 
 

 

He has shown he could be capable of taking pole positions yes. But has has not actually taken any pole positions yet.

[LBDN]

I would back Ocon over Max to win a title if they were in the same team solely because i back Ocon to finish races over Max in the heat of battle.

[Beamer]

They all raced each other throughout their international junior careers but chose different paths. One decided to dominate karting (Verstappen) while another decided to quickly change to cars (Gasly) for example


Verstappen:
2010: WSK Nations Cup - KF3 - 1st
2010: WSK World Series - KF3 - 1st
2010: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 1st
2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 2nd
2010: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 1st
2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 1st
2011: WSK Master Series - KF2 - 1st
2012: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF2 - 2nd
2013: CIK-FIA World KZ Championship - 1st
2013: CIK-FIA European Championship - KZ - 1st
2013: WSK Master Series - KZ2 - 1st
2013: WSK Euro Series - KZ1 - 1st
2013: CIK-FIA World Championship - KF - 3rd
2013: CIK-FIA European Championship KF - 1st

2014: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 3rd
2015: Formula 1


Leclerc:
2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 29th
2011: WSK Master Series - KF3 - 15th
2011: WSK Final Cup - KF3 - 2nd
2011: ERDF Masters Kart - Junior - 1st
2011: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF3 - 1st
2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 23rd
2012: WSK Final Cup - KF2 - 5th
2012: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF2 - 5th
2012: CIK-FIA European KF2 Championship - 2nd
2012: CIK-FIA U18 World Karting Championship - 2nd
2012: WSK Euro Series - KF2 - 1st
2012: WSK Master Series - KF2 - 20th
2013: WSK Master Series - KZ2 - 4th
2013: CIK-FIA World KZ Championship - 2nd
2013: WSK Euro Series - KZ1 - 12th
2013: CIK-FIA European Championship - KZ - 6th

2014: Formula Renault 2.0 Alps - 2nd
2015: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 4th
2016: GP3 Series - 1st
2017: FIA Formula 2 Championship - 1st
2018: Formula 1



Ocon:
2009: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 4th
2009: WSK International Series - KF3 - 35th
2010: Bridgestone Cup Europe - KF3 - 6th
2010: WSK Nations Cup - KF3 - 6th
2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 7th
2011: CIK-FIA World Cup for KF3 - 14th
2011: WSK Euro Series - KF3 - 2nd

2012: Formula Renault 2.0 Alps - 7th
2013: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 3rd
2014: FIA Formula 3 European Championship - 1st
2015: GP3 Series - 1st
2016: Formula 1


Gasly:
2009: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 3rd
2009: CIK-FIA European Championship - KF3 - 23rd
2010: CIK-FIA World Cup - KF3 - 4th
2010: CIK-FIA European Championship - KF3 - 2nd

2011: French F4 Championship - 3rd
2012: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 10th
2013: Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup - 1st
2014: Formula Renault 3.5 Series - 2nd
2015: GP2 Series - 8th
2016: GP2 Series - 1st
2017: Formula 1

Thats an interesting overview... max by far the more consistent one there... and outraced each and every one when karting in the same category...

(Apart from ocon in f3)

Edited by Beamer, 15 September 2018 - 13:22.

[A3]

 

They all raced each other throughout their international junior careers but chose different paths. One decided to dominate karting (Verstappen) while another decided to quickly change to cars (Gasly) for example

 

I don't think Max could have gone to cars earlier than he did.

[statman]

I don't think Max could have gone to cars earlier than he did.

 

ah good point 

[Bleu]

I don't think Max could have gone to cars earlier than he did.

 

Gasly and Ocon started their first season in cars at 15, Verstappen and Leclerc at 16. I count that Gasly has early birthday and the rest have late so majority of the season has been completed before their birthday.

[Cliff]

I would back Ocon over Max to win a title if they were in the same team solely because i back Ocon to finish races over Max in the heat of battle.

Whenever they actually raced each other in F3, Max came out on top. I'd watch some replay's of that season 👌🏻

[Sterzo]

Damsel's opening ranking of: Verstappen> Leclerc > Ocon > Gasly, is pretty much supported by statman's stats. With the proviso that Leclerc and Gasly have yet to adapt fully to F1, and may surprise or disappoint us.

[Jbleroi]

Damsel's opening ranking of: Verstappen> Leclerc > Ocon > Gasly, is pretty much supported by statman's stats. With the proviso that Leclerc and Gasly have yet to adapt fully to F1, and may surprise or disappoint us.

Results from the past dont guarantee anything for the future... especially in the youth categories because people (and especially kids) develop themselves at a different pace.. you have guys that are very fast in the early years but reach their peak early and you have people that get every year better and have a much higher peak..

And you have a lot of other variables that play a role.. for example Jos Verstappen is one of the best kart engine tuners out there so that helped max a lot. During F3 Ocon drove for prema the team to beat at that time and Max was “only” driving for van Amersfoort (a team that never had a podium finish in F3 Euro before Max joined them) and max had to face engine penalties during 6 races..

So in short this is a pretty useless topic.. next year we will be able to compare Max vs Gasly and that is not even a fair comparison because Max is well settled into the team and it will always take some time to settle in, unless you are a exceptional talent like Max is ;)

Edited by Jbleroi, 15 September 2018 - 19:14.

[A3]

(Apart from ocon in f3)

 

He came very close though. Won every on track battle with Ocon. Ocon had 2 more years of car experience.

[RacingGreen]

I didn't think threads like this were allowed.....

 

Still out of these four young guns we have Max, very short junior career outside carts and still young but already had 75 grand prix starts, a multiple race winner who is proving himself against Dan the Man. On that basis (IE what's been proved) he is clearly on top and has established himself a star in a way none of the others are even close to.

 

Ocon doing well against Perez who is one of the best in the midfield, and a steady experienced campaigner if not a superstar. On that basis it would be a shame if he misses out on a seat next year. 

 

LeClerc who Ferrari rate, they have data I don't of course, and Gasly who is out performing a WEC Champion but with a poor single seater pedigree. Neither of these two really can be judged at this stage against each other (or Ocon really) ..... which is why ..... Driver Vs Driver threads aren't normally allowed 

Edited by RacingGreen, 15 September 2018 - 18:36.

[Starchild]

Damsel's opening ranking of: Verstappen> Leclerc > Ocon > Gasly, is pretty much supported by statman's stats. With the proviso that Leclerc and Gasly have yet to adapt fully to F1, and may surprise or disappoint us.

Actually if you look at stats Gasly is ahead of Ocon. Out of those 4 drivers we had only two direct battles (out of karts). Ocon vs Verstappen in F3 and more fair to compare (similar experience): Ocon vs Gasly in FR2.0

In 2012. both Gasly and Ocon were rookies in FR2.0. Gasly finished 10th, Ocon 14th. Next year, both in their second year and in a fight for the title, again Gasly came out on top and won chamiponship while Ocon finished 3rd.

Edited by Starchild, 15 September 2018 - 19:04.

[noikeee]

I thought driver comparison threads (without them being team-mates) were not allowed?


Makes sense with the little information we currently have, though I'm not convinced Gasly at his best is necessarily better than Ocon. Ocon has outqualified Perez 10-3, so he certainly has some serious speed in him. And he has had some strong races too, like Monaco or UK.

Oh that is true, and Perez is no slouch, but I'm going also from what I remember from the feeder series. Gasly is the kind of guy that would do an absolutely incredible lap sometimes. It's just that more often that not he'd qualify 14th as well. And then crash to add insult to injury. Whereas I've never seen Ocon do a "woah!" lap. But on a bad day on a feeder series... He'd figure out a way to still finish 3rd or 4th at worse.

[Viryfan]

My assessment

 

- Verstappen and Leclerc are the perfect racer but Leclerc is a bit more edgy

- Gasly is very quick but if he does not mature he will hit a celling point

- Ocon is uber consistant but lacking cutting edge (the decisive overtake which Perez can pull off or the perfect lap from a Gasly)

 

But drivers tends to have some evolution due to their personnal lifes and becoming profesionnal sports men.

 

Each of the four guys had some of a "rocky" personal life.

 

Verstappen with his parents divorce.

 

Gasly had to work a lot in order to get money to keep his career going, which takes energy and focus away from track performance.

 

I guess it played a part on his pre-superformula inconsistancy.

 

 

http://www.racingbus...inancement.html

 

Ocon basically lived in a van during his karting days

 

 

While Charles lost his father and godfather.

 

http://www.formulasc...eban-ocon/11009

http://www.formulasc...s-leclerc/27403

http://www.formulasc...rre-gasly/10669

Edited by Viryfan, 15 September 2018 - 21:02.

[Laster]

Max - He’s the only proven race winner. We know he has bags of potential, and he’s supremely fast. The only question marks really hanging over him is his tendency to get involved in incidents, and his attitude when decisions go against him. What I wouldn’t give to see him paired against Hamilton, that would be the season F1 dreams are made of.

Leclerc - I like his attitude, very much aware of his own errors and strives to learn from them. He looks supremely fast but Ericsson is not a good bench mark, he may well have been flattered. By the end of next year we’ll have a good idea of his talent.

Ocon - Very consistent, and has shown well against Perez, but hasn’t dominated him. He could be a big talent but he needs a bigger opportunity to show it. The sillyness that he and Perez got into last year seem to have been learned from and sorted.

Gasly - I have no idea about Gasly. What four points finishes in his career? Has delivered when the Toro Rosso was capable of delivering, but at the same time when the car isn’t able to deliver he doesn’t set the world on fire. I don’t know where I place him yet and I fear going up against Verstappen could make him look bad.

[AlexPrime]

My impression is - Max, Lec, Gasly, Ocon.

[danmills]

I think Gasly is a grower, definitely dark horse material. I’m a fan.

[Fondmetal]

Verstappen > Leclerc > Gasly > Ocon

but, don't forget Norris and Russell, those two are also stars of the future, maybe some other drivers as well who are still in lower series (F3, F2.0)

but out of those 6 imo:
Verstappen > Leclerc > Russel > Gasly > Norris > Ocon

Nah Norris is hype and his F2 season is nothing special. Russel is spanking him on wins. Neither of them are at the level of Leclerc, Max, Gasley or Ocon. Even Vandoorne is better and the poor guy has been shafted by Mclaren. He is as strong as the other 4.

[RPM40]

Nah Norris is hype and his F2 season is nothing special. Russel is spanking him on wins. Neither of them are at the level of Leclerc, Max, Gasley or Ocon. Even Vandoorne is better and the poor guy has been shafted by Mclaren. He is as strong as the other 4.

How do you figure? Norris is a F2 rookie challenging for the title. Gasly didn't even win a race in his first F2 season.

 

Keep in mind both Gasly and Vandorne won F2 driving for Prema, the form team in most levels of motorsport. 

Edited by RPM40, 16 September 2018 - 01:54.

[maximilian]

I think Norris and Russell will have a word or two to say about exciting new youngsters in F1?

[PlayboyRacer]

I think Verstappen may throw the toys out the pram if Leclerc joins Ferrari and starts winning and challenging for the title... whilst Red Bull stagnate or go backwards.

[Damsel]

I think Verstappen may throw the toys out the pram if Leclerc joins Ferrari and starts winning and challenging for the title... whilst Red Bull stagnate or go backwards.

I really don’t think Verstappen cares if it’s Lewis, Seb or Leclerc winning the title as long as it’s not him. My guess is that if RB doesn’t show great promise with the Honda that he’ll be off to Merc.

[RECKLESS]

I'm rating them all at the same level with Max slightly above the rest due to his experience of fighting at the front, but next year will give answers.

Great bunch of talent for sure for years to come, and Leclerc is the one my money is on.

Edited by RECKLESS, 16 September 2018 - 05:36.

[PlayboyRacer]

I really don’t think Verstappen cares if it’s Lewis, Seb or Leclerc winning the title as long as it’s not him. My guess is that if RB doesn’t show great promise with the Honda that he’ll be off to Merc.

He ain't joining Merc while Hamilton is king of the castle there. That's the point. Verstappen, depending on Red Bulls fortune with Honda, may have backed himself into a tight spot.

He's committed to Red Bull and to see a guy like Leclerc possibly become the new young phenomenon and win regularly, while he is possibly floundering, won't sit well with him.

I can't speak for others... but I am still nowhere near convinced on Honda becoming a success.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 16 September 2018 - 06:00.

[Casey]

He ain't joining Merc while Hamilton is king of the castle there. That's the point. Verstappen, depending on Red Bulls fortune with Honda, may have backed himself into a tight spot.
 

How if Merc and Ferrari already have their nr. 1 spot taken, you feel he should have opted for Renault ?

[A3]

Hamilton won’t stay forever.

[Wes350]

.... We have been fooled too many times by GP2 form in the past.

 

This... x1000

 

While ladder series success is a proven indicator of potential...

 

No one really knows what that potential will pan out to be until they are in an F1 car with all the surrounding pressures.

 

 

 

I think Gasly is a grower, definitely dark horse material. I’m a fan.

 

I would take a gamble and say:

 

 Gasly>Leclerc > Ocon >

 

(Verstappen's talent  is proven against another top driver, he stands apart for now.)

 

I base that on Gasly's Superformula run.

 

It is very hard to come into a spec series with different cars and tires than one is used to and consistently run at the front with the series regulars.

 

It shows really good adaptability. Which is a much underrated trait for drivers IMHO.

 

.

[PlayboyRacer]

Hamilton won’t stay forever.

How long is Lewis locked in for currently? Because he's at least staying for that period, possibly longer.

[PlayboyRacer]

How if Merc and Ferrari already have their nr. 1 spot taken, you feel he should have opted for Renault ?

To be honest... I think for Max it was always going to be a tough situation. Mercedes and Ferrari had their superstar #1 drivers, plus they had junior stars tied to their brand and didn't need to rock the boat by going all out to get Verstappen.

The best move for Max was always going to be stay with Red Bull and be their long term superstar. The problem though is the performance.

If he could break his contract and waltz into a Mercedes/Ferrari seat (and if they wanted him badly enough he could) then no problem. However I seriously doubt that, Merc and Ferrari have their number 1s plus their preferred second driver and/or young stars coming through.

Sure say in 3 or 4 years time perhaps Mercedes would come knocking (given Hamilton retiring) which is fine... but is Max prepared to wait that long if Red Bull Honda are rubbish? All the while Leclerc is winning regularly with Ferrari just to rub salt in the wound...

Be interesting.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 16 September 2018 - 07:50.