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[statman]

Lionel Barber‏Verified account @lionelbarber 2h2 hours ago

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Scoop: @muradahmed reveals Formula One is moving into gambling sponsorships (Bernie Ecclestone long said that was a No No) https://www.ft.com/content/25f26274-ba71-11e8-8274-55b72926558f … via @financialtimes

[johnwilliamdavies]

 

from BBC: The deal with Interregional Sports Group, reportedly worth more than $100m (£76m), will allow F1 to develop in-play betting markets during grands prix.

 

As part of the deal, betting brands will be shown on physical and virtual trackside signage, as well as branded on-screen graphics.

 

Not good. 

[Neno]

So tobbaco sponsorship on the cars wasnt ok, but gambling is. The f**** is this. Now whole sports and graphics will be literated will Perez crash into Ocon with betting odd on opening lap 

Edited by Neno, 18 September 2018 - 09:57.

[SonGoku]

Not a big deal to me, the NBA also opened up for betting. This is going to happen in almost every sport in the near future, the difference is the American owners will go with the trends now, while Bernie still thought it was 1960 every day.

[PayasYouRace]

So tobbaco sponsorship on the cars wasnt ok, but gambling is. The f**** is this. Now whole sports and graphics will be literated will Perez crash into Ocon with betting odd on opening lap 

One damages your health, the other has no ill effects unless abused. But if you’re going to avoid anything that causes problems if abused you’d have no sponsorship.

[Kalmake]

So tobbaco sponsorship on the cars wasnt ok, but gambling is. The f**** is this. Now whole sports and graphics will be literated will Perez crash into Ocon with betting odd on opening lap 

F1 dropped tobacco because of laws. If gambling bothers you complain to your lawmakers.

 

From the article, that kind of advertising you describe is illegal in many countries and F1 says they are not planning to do it.

[Neno]

One damages your health, the other has no ill effects unless abused. But if you’re going to avoid anything that causes problems if abused you’d have no sponsorship.

I would argue about that. Gambling is addicting and especially bad for young people. And gambling will ruin your life sooner than any kind of smoking. 

[PayasYouRace]

I would argue about that. Gambling is addicting and especially bad for young people. And gambling will ruin your life sooner than any kind of smoking.

If abused, as I said. That applies to any product or service.

[Fastcake]

Bernie almost looks like the more moral person for declining gambling sponsorship for so long. Formula One should be pretty careful with this. Sports are coming under heavy pressure due to the harm caused by problem gambling, and the acquiescence of sports to match fixing and corruption due to the profits they make.

At least F1 is isolated from the rampant corruption, as that mainly place at the lower levels of sports. It wasn’t a great look for tennis when a report in match fixing came out at an Australian Open covered with betting adverts.

Not a big deal to me, the NBA also opened up for betting. This is going to happen in almost every sport in the near future, the difference is the American owners will go with the trends now, while Bernie still thought it was 1960 every day.

The interesting thing here is how America has legalised betting on sports at the same time the rest of the world is beginning to find how problematic it can be.

[AustinF1]

As part of the deal, betting brands will be shown on physical and virtual trackside signage, as well as branded on-screen graphics.

So did anyone else already get sick of the videogame-esque virtual trackside graphics throughout the race in Singapore. Jeez. Awful.

[SenorSjon]

I tend to have my eyes on live timing these days (not the official one though). Prevents seeing the halo too much.

[TheFlyingFinn]

I tend to have my eyes on live timing these days (not the official one though). Prevents seeing the halo too much.

Out of curiosity, which non-official timing do you use?

[Dennista]

Bernie almost looks like the more moral person for declining gambling sponsorship for so long. Formula One should be pretty careful with this. Sports are coming under heavy pressure due to the harm caused by problem gambling, and the acquiescence of sports to match fixing and corruption due to the profits they make.

At least F1 is isolated from the rampant corruption, as that mainly place at the lower levels of sports. It wasn’t a great look for tennis when a report in match fixing came out at an Australian Open covered with betting adverts.


The interesting thing here is how America has legalised betting on sports at the same time the rest of the world is beginning to find how problematic it can be.

 

Whatever brings in money to the sport. Lets not complain.

[pdac]

Whatever brings in money to the sport. Lets not complain.

 

Bernie probably said "No" because they weren't prepared to pay what he was asking.

[Dennista]

Bernie probably said "No" because they weren't prepared to pay what he was asking.

 

Bernie thought F1 content on social media was a copyright infringement. An absolute dinosaur who did everything for his own pocket. Have faith in Liberty. 

[ConsiderAndGo]

I would argue about that. Gambling is addicting and especially bad for young people. And gambling will ruin your life sooner than any kind of smoking. 

 

Same applies to Big Mac's.

[Dratini]

So did anyone else already get sick of the videogame-esque virtual trackside graphics throughout the race in Singapore. Jeez. Awful.

I can't really recall them, but I certainly remember an annoying one that was popping up at Spa. Can't remember what corner it was on the exit of, may have been Les Combes, and whether it was Hamilton or Vettel that was exiting the corner, a graphic designed to look like a billboard would say something stupid like "Push now Lewis!" or "Go Vettel!".

[statman]

Bernie probably said "No" because they weren't prepared to pay what he was asking.

 

[F1matt]

Can anyone give me odds for Liberty been a clueless bunch of idiots who paid way over the odds for a product that is haemorrhaging money? 

[jannyg]

Good idea don't see how it's a bad thing, need to get more sponsorship in F1 so if this is one avenue then so be it.

When at the British GP I noticed there were no betting stands, I think it would be a good introduction for those who like to make small bets

F1 has to continue to move with the times

[absinthedude]

I'm not bothered if gambling related organisations wish to sponsor grands prix. Or if there were to be betting booths at the races. Many other sports have this. It's only a problem if abused. Some people, sadly, are wired for psychological addiction and will find things that damage their lives....might be gambling, might be food, might be video games, might be hoarding. I'd never suggest that food, or video games should not be advertised. Addiction has destroyed and ended the lives of some people close to me, but in the end those people failed to take responsibility for their own actions. I know people emotionally addicted to food and who struggle each and every day. 

 

If Ladbrokes, BetFred or Las Vegas want to put money into F1, I have no issue with it. 

[loki]

Can anyone give me odds for Liberty been a clueless bunch of idiots who paid way over the odds for a product that is haemorrhaging money? 

 

The company is still incredibly profitable.  There are some revenue ups and downs due to contracts and timing of races but in terms of profit generated it's still doing well.  The team share is down because they are taking some of that profit and reinvesting in the company.  If you look at the performance of the company in the market it's doing well.  Like any public company the product isn't the racing series it's the performance of the stock in the market.  What a public company does is a means to an end in terms of stock price/value.

[SonGoku]

Liberty's media approach has been incredible (as you would expect), when you see Lewis Hamilton's Singapore pole lap all over twitter retweeted you are reaching a very big online public. Of course they are going to make mistakes, but atleast they want to keep the sport up-to-date and not in the Stone Age.

[johnwilliamdavies]

If Ladbrokes, BetFred or Las Vegas want to put money into F1, I have no issue with it. 

 

When "Crofty" hands over to Ray "Bet Free Six Foive" Winstone's floating digital head to give us the odds during the warm-up lap, I'll definitely have an issue with it. 

[Nonesuch]

Bernie thought F1 content on social media was a copyright infringement.

 

From what I gather, FOM would often sell exclusive licenses to national broadcasters. When they undermine that exclusivity with their own international and free content - the national broadcasters are naturally not going to pay the same for a watered down version of the F1 broadcasting rights. It's a perfectly sensible business decision to weigh the one option against the other.

 

Liberty is perhaps hoping to stop the decade long decline in F1 viewership with an expanded online presence. So far though, the numbers they're getting on their YouTube videos stand in stark contrast to the 400+ million viewers they claim for F1. That people who frequent F1 websites like Autosport are seeing more F1-related content on various 'social media' platforms is no surprise, as the whole point of these things is to create bubbles with similarly minded people to sell advertising at a premium.

Edited by Nonesuch, 18 September 2018 - 21:44.

[BalanceUT]

We will probably see a lot of in-race bets on things like: "Next Red Bull pit stop is under 2.55 seconds, place your wagers now on MarketBets.com" "Over/under on lap that Hamilton pits, place your wager on BigOnlineBetting.com"

[RacingGreen]

Good idea don't see how it's a bad thing, need to get more sponsorship in F1 so if this is one avenue then so be it.

When at the British GP I noticed there were no betting stands, I think it would be a good introduction for those who like to make small bets

F1 has to continue to move with the times

 

The everyday normalization of gambling in society is deplorable. This is a huge step in the wrong direction.

[RacingGreen]

Whatever brings in money to the sport. Lets not complain.

 

You can't spend your money twice. Young people can't afford overseas holidays, eating out, saving for a mortgage and gambling. Anything that's bad for society let's complain.

[Counterbalance]

The everyday normalization of gambling in society is deplorable. This is a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

I couldn't agree more. I've no interest in watching Ray Winstone counduct post race interviews whatsoever.

[Dennista]

You can't spend your money twice. Young people can't afford overseas holidays, eating out, saving for a mortgage and gambling. Anything that's bad for society let's complain.

 

Who cares, let the money roll in. Make F1 great again.

[F1matt]

Is it a coincidence that the gambling partnership has been introduced after no new manufacturers have shown an interest in joining F1? I wonder if this is to try and temp some gambling companies to sponsor the teams in the way these companies sponsor almost every premier league football team in some form? Totally different audience and it will be interesting to see what markets the companies focus on to try and tempt people

[RacingGreen]

Who cares, let the money roll in. Make F1 great again.

 

Liberty (like CVC before them) aren't interested in money rolling into F1, they are all about how much they can take out.

[Dr. Austin]

Yeah, no chance of corruption here.

[TomNokoe]

No thanks

[w1Y]

Youve been able to bet on f1 for years. Isnt this just an exclusive sponsorship with the aim of building up in play betting. Other sports have had betting like this for years.

You can go bet on options, penny stocks if you want and lose large sums of money. I dont think f1 is going to be the trigger sport for gambling addiction. People can bet on football every single day not every 2 weeks. I see nothing wrong with this as long as it is policed within the sport and it doesnt bring the sport into disrepute.If it is also reinvestes into the sport then great.

Edited by w1Y, 19 September 2018 - 22:36.

[romaincrouton]

Well, on the one hand gambling can be a pretty destructive addiction and tends to affect poorer people disproportionately. But then again so does alcohol, and I’m not sure I have any expectations that F1 will be some kind of bastion for good or set positive examples for how we should live our lives.

It’s motorsport, and very very expensive motorsport at that, it’s logisics have a huge carbon footprint, it hosts races in the back gardens of despots, it’s hero’s are tax evading multimillionaires and the less said about the business dealings of the team owners the better.

Despite all that I still love it, so in short I can’t seem to find the energy to climb onto a soap box to complain about this.

[RacingGreen]

I told a story on the forum a while back about the uproar in Melbourne after David Courthad pulled over and let Mika Hakkinen past on team orders. People who bet money on a DC win lost because the team fixed the result. As long as teams fix results there should be no betting because whenever it happens F1 suffers a major dent to it's sporting credibility.  I am surprised Liberty don't realize how damaging this can be.

[pdac]

... and this appears in the news:

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...siness-45574180

[Nathan]

F1 doesn't come off as a safe betting sport....

[goldenboy]

When "Crofty" hands over to Ray "Bet Free Six Foive" Winstone's floating digital head to give us the odds during the warm-up lap, I'll definitely have an issue with it.

Ugh I hate those ads. Actually find them depressing.

I'm not a gambler but believe people should be allowed to do what they want, so it doesn't bother me. If it gets thrown in my face too much it will definitely turn me off though.

[loki]

The everyday normalization of gambling in society is deplorable. This is a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

Then don't gamble.  It's no different than anything else that can be addictive, smoking, drinking, eating.  In the end it's a personal choice and the responsibility of those that do bet to bet responsibly.

[mclarensmps]

I told a story on the forum a while back about the uproar in Melbourne after David Courthad pulled over and let Mika Hakkinen past on team orders. People who bet money on a DC win lost because the team fixed the result. As long as teams fix results there should be no betting because whenever it happens F1 suffers a major dent to it's sporting credibility.  I am surprised Liberty don't realize how damaging this can be.

Not knowing if a team will use team orders or not and betting on a winner... is a gamble.

Anyway, I don't see the problem with this because it already happens.

[Gary Davies]

One damages your health, the other has no ill effects unless abused. But if you’re going to avoid anything that causes problems if abused you’d have no sponsorship.

This comment is, unfortunately, simplistic and not sufficiently well thought through.

 

Unlike almost all other products and services, gambling carries with it the additional spectre of problem gambling and all the social and criminal effects that brings. I can't recall the last time I read about problem Rexona use, problem Ray-Ban use or problem Castrol use.

 

Worldwide, studies are showing that gambling, especially online gambling, is throwing up ever increasing social problems. Damage from problem gambling tends to cover a broad and ugly spectrum which includes fraud, relationship breakdown, robbery, depression, major financial problems and more. It is common, in these cases, for friends, family members and employers to be affected. 

 

Of course, many people can participate in gambling in a responsible way - no one would deny that - but gambling is a product with a more significant capacity to cause harm than many other goods and services. 

 

It is unnecessary and in my view, has no place in Formula One.

[jonpollak]

The everyday normalization of gambling in society is deplorable. This is a huge step in the wrong direction.

There's a sucker born every minute. As seen on all your British TV commercials over and over and over. Pandering to the LCD is now the norm. I just thought F1 was supposed to be for the more discerning ?

Modern society takes another plunge deep down the sewer.
Jp

[loki]

 

Worldwide, studies are showing that gambling, especially online gambling, is throwing up ever increasing social problems. Damage from problem gambling tends to cover a broad and ugly spectrum which includes fraud, relationship breakdown, robbery, depression, major financial problems and more. It is common, in these cases, for friends, family members and employers to be affected. 

 

Of course, many people can participate in gambling in a responsible way - no one would deny that - but gambling is a product with a more significant capacity to cause harm than many other goods and services. 

 

It is unnecessary and in my view, has no place in Formula One.

 

Following that logic Heineken has no place in racing.  In the US about 3% of the population is addicted or a problem gambler.  The percentage of alcohol dependent adults in the US is about 12% and that doesn't count those that regularly abuse alcohol.   Some reports put the percentage of adults that regularly abuse alcohol at about 20%.  About 100,000 people die a year in the US due to alcohol related deaths.  Six people a day die from alcohol poisoning in the US.  About a third of all traffic fatalities in the US are alcohol related.  Or about one an hour, each day of the year, all year.  It's the third leading cause of preventable death behind smoking and eating poorly leading to poor health.  The cost to society in monetary terms is over a quarter trillion dollars a year.  

 

Seeing an ad for gambling on an F1 race is no more likely to make one a problem gambler than seeing the Heineken logo over and over at the track for a few hours is going to make them an alcoholic.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

One damages your health, the other has no ill effects unless abused. But if you’re going to avoid anything that causes problems if abused you’d have no sponsorship.

You are forgetting your “mental” health; which is just as important as your physical health.

Bad idea for any sports to be sponsored by betting/gambling company!

[RacingGreen]

Then don't gamble.  It's no different than anything else that can be addictive, smoking, drinking, eating.  In the end it's a personal choice and the responsibility of those that do bet to bet responsibly.

 

There is a growing generation of young people in Australia who gamble because it has been normalized to them by society and their parents. These are kids brought up with their parents spending their welfare payments at the TAB and the pub. They are stuck in a cycle of generational poverty. Society should protect these vulnerable young people not treat them as suckers.

 

https://www.anglicar...people_new.pdf 

[goldenboy]

There is a growing generation of young people in Australia who gamble because it has been normalized to them by society and their parents. These are kids brought up with their parents spending their welfare payments at the TAB and the pub. They are stuck in a cycle of generational poverty. Society should protect these vulnerable young people not treat them as suckers.

https://www.anglicar...people_new.pdf

I've seen it first hand. It's terrible. Shocking actually.

[r4mses]

I told a story on the forum a while back about the uproar in Melbourne after David Courthad pulled over and let Mika Hakkinen past on team orders. People who bet money on a DC win lost because the team fixed the result. As long as teams fix results there should be no betting because whenever it happens F1 suffers a major dent to it's sporting credibility.  I am surprised Liberty don't realize how damaging this can be.

 

The don't realize because they don't know F1.

[johnwilliamdavies]

... and this appears in the news:

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...siness-45574180

 

A report commissioned by Labour found there are 430,000 identified gambling addicts in the UK, 25,000 of which are 16 or under.

Mr Watson said his party would introduce a "whistle-to-whistle" ban on gambling adverts being shown during a specified time before, during and after a live sporting event.

 

That'll mess up Liberty's plans.