195 replies to this topic

[Ev0d3vil]

https://www.racefans...ssion-for-2019/

As Ross has mentioned in Singapore ..

[FullOppositeLock]

Just leave it as is for crying out loud. This is fiddling around for the sake of fiddling around.

[Signori]

There is nothing wrong with the current format, what is the rationale for changing this ?

Edited by Signori, 01 October 2018 - 07:47.

[Stephane]

Keep it as is, or go back to an unlimited one hour session.

[Kalmake]

"The new Q4 session would feature eight cars. Whiting said the possibility that each car would do a single lap in turn had not been discussed. The length of the session could remain sufficient for each car to do two runs."

 

Not much of a change then.

 

Is this just to get one more add break for american TV?

[kernel]

Keep it as is, or go back to an unlimited one hour session.

 

And you won't see any action for the first 30 minutes unless rain is forecast within the hour.

[l12mcg]

"The new Q4 session would feature eight cars. Whiting said the possibility that each car would do a single lap in turn had not been discussed. The length of the session could remain sufficient for each car to do two runs."

Not much of a change then.

Is this just to get one more add break for american TV?

It’s clearly a mix of two goals I think.

They are for sure trying to get the ad saturation in the American market they are used to. Just look at the change of race start time for that.

This would give them 4 ad breaks during the hour qualifying program (if kept the same length). Plus 2 at either end.

The side effect of this would be that in each qualifying session there would only be time for a single low fuel run. So a single mistake is going to cost you dramatically.

Which is clearly why they think they can sell it, they think it is win-win.

But it’s formula one.

The problem with that is the teams will not like the unpredictability and just fuel up and run several laps.

So you’d have to make a rule that said one run per car per session.

But then what about traffic, so it would have to be one run per car with set gaps between them, time trail style.

But what about weather changes?

Yeah it doesn’t work. They either need to make qualifying longer so you still get two runs per session or it is just going to annoy fans.

As we’ve seen before, qualifying is basically the one area where every fan can agree it’s pretty much right. We don’t need or want change there.

While I can see the appeal of less predictable qualifying, if it becomes a traffic lottery every race it’s just going to get ridiculous and annoying.

Like the tyre lottery of the first 8 races of 2012, it was exciting but had it gone on for a full season or two, we’d be ripping our hair out.

[P123]

Qualifying isn't a problem. As already suggested, this will be to allow another opportunity for an ad break.

[SophieB]

F1, please fix the many broken things before messing with the few things that work fine.

[LH44Fan]

F1, please fix the many broken things before messing with the few things that work fine.

 

What she said! Qualifying is the one thing that's working well (look at Singapore for example) - please leave it be and tend to the real issues of which there are plenty!

[Knowlesy]

The current system works perfectly OK. Lunacy.

[Stephane]

And you won't see any action for the first 30 minutes unless rain is forecast within the hour.

 

That's why i said unlimited, not 12-laps.

 

 

We may have cars on track all the time now, but the pole is always at the end, and we have forced pauses and a lot of the laps are just "enough to go to q2/q3", not really quick laps for the top 6.

 

By the way, it was rarely 30min without nothing.

[Laster]

Kinda feels like a reaction to what happened in Q2. When really it was just the fact we had three cars with penalties and a set of tyres that Renault did not want to start on. One messed up qualifying session does not mean the whole thing needs a rethink. Sort out how the penalties and tyres, and the qualifying format will continue being excellent like it has been in every other race this year and years gone by.

[tomjol]

There is **** all wrong with qualifying. There's a lot wrong with other stuff. Fix the other stuff. Leave qualifying alone. FFS.

[hodgy21]

“They’ve been doing a lot of research among fans and this is one of the things that they feel the fans would like,” FIA race director Charlie Whiting.

Hmm...

[Ickx]

That's why i said unlimited, not 12-laps.

 

 

We may have cars on track all the time now, but the pole is always at the end, and we have forced pauses and a lot of the laps are just "enough to go to q2/q3", not really quick laps for the top 6.

 

By the way, it was rarely 30min without nothing.

 

It was not always 30 min without nothing but in the end it moved more and more in that direction. I imagine it would be much more so today with the parc ferme rules, limited engines and massively more resources to simulations and race week optimisation software. 

[Ickx]

“They’ve been doing a lot of research among fans and this is one of the things that they feel the fans would like,” FIA race director Charlie Whiting.

Hmm...

 

I think it goes like this: "They seem to like the current format with segments. With more segments they should like it even more."

[Nonesuch]

Great, more pointless sessions and lacklustre tv coverage because everyone is trying to get their lap in at the last moment.

 

Single-lap quali please!

[F1 Mike]

Current thing wrong with F1 - people inside the sport

[Fonzey]

The current qualifying format is the best it's ever been, it really doesn't need touching. Shortening the sessions will only make traffic more of an issue at certain circuits.

[johnmhinds]

Because everything turned out great last time they had the bright idea to mess around with the qualifying format...

Just leave it alone guys.

[haryantofan666]

Yes, let's ignore all the things that are wrong and change the one thing that doesn't need changing!

Edited by haryantofan666, 01 October 2018 - 08:57.

[Beri]

The 12 lap format was the best format F1 has ever used. It only needed a brush up to ensure that drivers would be on the track at least one run every 20 minutes.

[Fatgadget]

Great, more pointless sessions and lacklustre tv coverage because everyone is trying to get their lap in at the last moment.

 

Single-lap quali please!

A man after my own heart! ..Boy was it mega intense back in the day of qualifying specials eh...Fuel tank on fumes. Super sticky tyres bolted on.Super special qualifying engine at maximum boost  with the wastegate bolted shut.. Driver hanging balls out of the cockpit ..and going for it ..magic!

[Spillage]

I think the current format is fine. I wish they'd stop trying to improve on it.

[Muppetmad]

Iceberg? What iceberg? We don't see an iceberg - we're too busy rearranging these deckchairs, despite the passengers not complaining about them at all...

[CountDooku]

Liberty: "that's a nice looking qualifying format you have there, shame if something were to happen to it!"

 

What this thread needs is a poll though.

[PayasYouRace]

The 12 lap format was the best format F1 has ever used. It only needed a brush up to ensure that drivers would be on the track at least one run every 20 minutes.

They did that brush up, and that’s what we have today.

[SenorSjon]

Great, more pointless sessions and lacklustre tv coverage because everyone is trying to get their lap in at the last moment.

 

Single-lap quali please!

 

Bwegh, no single lap please.

 

 

---

 

The elephant in the room is the 'start on qualy tires' rule in combination with a distinct top 6 and a close mid pack. If you can choose your tire before the race, it really isn't any advantage to try and get to Q3. 9th/10th for a big disadvantage during the race isn't worth it as we have seen the last couple of races. 

 

Second elephant is the ludicrous engine penalty system where you get tossed 15 places for a single engine part and a gearbox. With a 20 spot grid, only Mercedes and Ferrari could try and not become last, but losing free tire choice in the midpack is such a disadvantage, they won't do that as well.

[Fastcake]

They did that brush up, and that’s what we have today.

I’m always surprised people don’t see we still have the hour session, just tweaked to ensure there’s always cars on track and three climaxes.

[Nonesuch]

Bwegh, no single lap please.

 

Full coverage of all laps, lots of airtime for the lesser heroes, some crazy results, and no pointless F1-esque overcomplications along the lines of 'oh sir, I do see how impressive this Q2 lap is considering the driver has used compound Alpha for his lap, which we sadly didn't see anything of because the director was focussing on Max Verstappen's new stepmother'.

 

Q1 and Q2 are total bores, who cares who ends up 12th or 18th if you don't even see the laps but rather a static shot of the finish line as the timing bar shuffles into order?! Oh well, it is what it is. 

Edited by Nonesuch, 01 October 2018 - 09:29.

[Stephane]

I’m always surprised people don’t see we still have the hour session, just tweaked to ensure there’s always cars on track and three climaxes.

 

three cimaxes, yep, but always cars on track, nope.

 

We don"t see more laps, they are juste a bit more spread out.

[BuddyHolly]

Quite ridiculous..  Qualifying is fine, if you want to fix something, fix the damn god-awful "racing".

 

also single lap qualifying sucks, we tried that a few years back and it was terrible, the first few runners were always screwed and the last few always had the biggest advantage, so no.

Edited by BuddyHolly, 01 October 2018 - 09:41.

[TecnoRacing]

"The new Q4 session would feature eight cars. Whiting said the possibility that each car would do a single lap in turn had not been discussed. The length of the session could remain sufficient for each car to do two runs."

 

Not much of a change then.

 

Is this just to get one more add break for american TV?

 

There are no more ad breaks on American TV.

ESPN airs the SKY feed with no commercials.

[Zilbert]

What they need to change is mandatory tyre nonsense. Produce compounds that differ substantially, and let teams use them as they please. A bit of OT rant    .

[Gareth]

Poll (hopefully) added.

[TomNokoe]

A competitive field would solve most of F1's "problems".

[SenorSjon]

Full coverage of all laps, lots of airtime for the lesser heroes, some crazy results, and no pointless F1-esque overcomplications along the lines of 'oh sir, I do see how impressive this Q2 lap is considering the driver has used compound Alpha for his lap, which we sadly didn't see anything of because the director was focussing on Max Verstappen's new stepmother'.

 

Q1 and Q2 are total bores, who cares who ends up 12th or 18th if you don't even see the laps but rather a static shot of the finish line as the timing bar shuffles into order?! Oh well, it is what it is. 

 

We discussed this at length last year. But for most it was a utter bore until the top 5-6 entered the competition. 

[ViMaMo]

Q1 in karts. Q2 in their cars.

[ANF]

The good thing is that a Q4 format would have shorter breaks between Qs.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Look on the bright side, there's no way it could possibly be as bad as the 2016 system that lasted just 2 races (and that was 2 races too many as we all knew that what happened, was going to happen)

[noikeee]

Whilst I'm with most people here who are unsure about touching qualifying because it seems fine, this wouldn't be a huge change really, just a slight tweak on what we have now.

 

It feels a little unnecessary yet at the same time unlikely to hurt much. It won't bother me if they do this.

[SenorSjon]

Depends on the tire rules. You can break it up all you want, but I rather have more laps for pole than less. Now they only have max 2 runs for P1.

[johnmhinds]

Look on the bright side, there's no way it could possibly be as bad as the 2016 system that lasted just 2 races (and that was 2 races too many as we all knew that what happened, was going to happen)

 

This is F1 we're talking about, they will always find a way to make it worse.

[Clatter]

Id love to know where this research takes place. Does anyone know of a fan that has participated in the research?

As to the proposal, I don't think it is that bad an idea. The shorter time per session will put more pressure on the teams and could provide less dead time and more track action. It's not a wholesale change from the current format, so would be happy to see it tried out. They can always revert back if it doesn't work.

Edited by Clatter, 01 October 2018 - 11:57.

[Beri]

They did that brush up, and that’s what we have today.

No its not. Back then you could have a bad first run and be 18th, but later on still becoming 5th on the grid by having yourself a fantastic last run. Nowadays youre eliminated. That is the sucky part in my opinion.

[SenorSjon]

No its not. Back then you could have a bad first run and be 18th, but later on still becoming 5th on the grid by having yourself a fantastic last run. Nowadays youre eliminated. That is the sucky part in my opinion.

 

Now you dont have to run and end up 10th or so with all the penalties.

[Jordan44]

Liberty media - masters of change for the sake of change

[Razoola]

Change for the sake of being able to fit an extra ad break during quali

[cheekybru]

An extra session with 2 more runs that every team would have to bring 2 more sets of tires for? Sounds ridiculous so will probably happen

Unless I'm missing something?