6307 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Not if you have a contract and I can't see Vettel being that stupid to get a clause that can be triggered by Ferrari. He made mostly the best out of his negations.

Pretty sure that this isnt uncommon and was actually rumored in this case.

Though I dont see why Ferrari should do that. If Vettel gets it together and Leclerc develops as expected they could have the best driver pairing and thus a decent shot on the WCC. Also an insurance for at least one year should Leclerc not have what it takes to challenge for the WDC.

[1Devil1]

Pretty sure that this isnt uncommon and was actually rumored in this case.

Though I dont see why Ferrari should do that. If Vettel gets it together and Leclerc develops as expected they could have the best driver pairing and thus a decent shot on the WCC. Also an insurance for at least one year should Leclerc not have what it takes to challenge for the WDC.

 

True, but people seem to hang on that 40 millions Vettel is getting paid. But they can't cut his wages with his contract. 

[RA2]

It was the other way around - Zak Brown tried to convince Hulk to drive for them in 2020 (Indy), as he explained a few hours ago. But Hulk said ovals are not his thing, and has ruled out driving in Indycar because of that.

Maybe he could have sat out Indy and Texas

But I think he is too indecisive, most likely end up in TC

[Junky]

Hulk is out for sure. I don't see Ferrari kicking Vettel out after Binotto's last statement. It would be crazy.

[BRG]

I am no fan of Ferrari's driver selection process, but they surely aren't foolish enough to drop Vettel for a results-vacuum like Hulkenburg.  

[Klauzer]

Hulk is out for sure. I don't see Ferrari kicking Vettel out after Binotto's last statement. It would be crazy.

 

I didn't even see the point of Binotto's recent "we need to race with a clear number 1/number 2" (or words to that effect) comments. He knows Leclerc has forward momentum & Vettel has issues. Saying stuff like that in this context after Leclerc's back to back wins isn't exactly going to help Vettel's confidence is the latter part of the season. And what if Vettel does win a couple of races? Would Leclerc have to face a return to number 2? I don't think so. When two drivers are competing against each other without clear dominance (despite Leclerc's race wins, Vettel & Leclerc both have very similar race pace), I don't think it's smart to talk about number 1 & number 2 drivers unless someone is going to get kicked out. Clearly the situation in the team changed as Leclerc established himself as a very quick driver more than equal with Vettel this season, i.e. instead of remaining stuck in their "clear number 1" ways, Ferrari should simply adapt & give equal status - in the name of their constructor championship position. At least for the rest of this season.

 

I assume they don't want to give Leclerc "equal pay" with Vettel. But they're the ones who gave Vettel his contract so they should just live with that (& Leclerc hasn't won a title yet so he can hardly ask for superstar money & status either). 

[HeadFirst]

I didn't even see the point of Binotto's recent "we need to race with a clear number 1/number 2" (or words to that effect) comments. He knows Leclerc has forward momentum & Vettel has issues. Saying stuff like that in this context after Leclerc's back to back wins isn't exactly going to help Vettel's confidence is the latter part of the season. And what if Vettel does win a couple of races? Would Leclerc have to face a return to number 2? I don't think so. When two drivers are competing against each other without clear dominance (despite Leclerc's race wins, Vettel & Leclerc both have very similar race pace), I don't think it's smart to talk about number 1 & number 2 drivers unless someone is going to get kicked out. Clearly the situation in the team changed as Leclerc established himself as a very quick driver more than equal with Vettel this season, i.e. instead of remaining stuck in their "clear number 1" ways, Ferrari should simply adapt & give equal status - in the name of their constructor championship position. At least for the rest of this season.

 

I assume they don't want to give Leclerc "equal pay" with Vettel. But they're the ones who gave Vettel his contract so they should just live with that (& Leclerc hasn't won a title yet so he can hardly ask for superstar money & status either). 

 

Although he is going through a rough period, Vettel is still an asset to Ferrari. Both drivers are signed for next year, and the team is out of the running for the WCC, so why not (as you suggest) give them equal status for the remainder of this year? These 2 drivers have the potential to be a formidable team, no matter how things shake down next year.

[TurnOffTheLights]

Does anyone know how well the relationship Vettel-Hulkenberg is? I know they've once raced together at a Race of Champions. But other than that it didn't seem to me they're very close.

If they were... well then it could be Vettel having given Hulk a hint about himself retiring at the end of the season. Then Hulks behaviour would make a lot of sense,because he would be the one to replace Vettel if Ricciardo doesn't become available. And if it's Ricciardo in a Ferrari next year, then surely Renault would take Hulk back instantly. No way they're keen on having 2 new drivers next year.

Do I believe in such a scenario though? Not really, since I don't think Vettel and Hulk are best buddies.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 20 September 2019 - 18:59.

[Fatgadget]

A bit of needle between drivers rather than - after you mate  always entertaining!  Aryton and Prost..Mansell and Pique. Alonso and Hamilton. Hamilton and Rosberg....More of those please Sir!

[Fatgadget]

Pretty sure that this isnt uncommon and was actually rumored in this case.

Though I dont see why Ferrari should do that. If Vettel gets it together and Leclerc develops as expected they could have the best driver pairing and thus a decent shot on the WCC. Also an insurance for at least one year should Leclerc not have what it takes to challenge for the WDC.

You having a laugh surely? What more Leclerc needs to do to prove he is the real deal?

[speedx]

Does anyone know how well the relationship Vettel-Hulkenberg is? I know they've once raced together at a Race of Champions. But other than that it didn't seem to me they're very close.

If they were... well then it could be Vettel having given Hulk a hint about himself retiring at the end of the season. Then Hulks behaviour would make a lot of sense,because he would be the one to replace Vettel if Ricciardo doesn't become available. And if it's Ricciardo in a Ferrari next year, then surely Renault would take Hulk back instantly. No way they're keen on having 2 new drivers next year.

Do I believe in such a scenario though? Not really, since I don't think Vettel and Hulk are best buddies.

Probably they talked about that. Nico said that Rosberg should have told him that he will step down. He can not forgive him that...

I think the only probability is if Vettel goes to Red Bull, then Ferrari would take Hulk. Otherwise Hulk is out. If he had beaten Daniel this year, he would be driving Red Bull next year.

[Marklar]

You having a laugh surely? What more Leclerc needs to do to prove he is the real deal?

Even Ralf Schumacher managed to win two races in the row in a dominant fashion and outqualify a extremely quick guy over a season. Speed is not the only thing you need to have to be the real deal.

Edited by Marklar, 20 September 2019 - 19:37.

[AustinF1]

Because they can’t get the tires to work right, every driver on the grid would struggle with a car like this.

They should go back to the previous owners and ask for the Owner's Manual.

[jannyg]

Ralf's teammate wasn't a 4 time world champion and Leclerc has more than just speed. There looks to be a strong head under pressure and a winner mentality.

For Leclerc to come into Ferrari in his second F1 season and put this kind of heat on Vettel says a lot, almost every time this car has been capable of winning it has been in Charles' hands.

[Fatgadget]

Marklar.You are scrapping the proverbial  barrel mate! It's clear Leclerc the real dogs dangly bits! Just like Hamilton was when he was pitted with Alonso all those moons ago...Anyway,lets agree to disagree eh!

Edited by Fatgadget, 20 September 2019 - 21:56.

[ATM]

To continue Marklar’s post, I would say that a level-headed approach under extreme pressure would suit best a Wcc challenge and prove a driver’s worth.
With the risk of incurring a lot of the fans’ wrath, I daresay that so far neither Leclerc or Verstappen had to handle such steam oven pressure on a prologed period of time.
As such, they’re not yet the real deal for me- just some very, very talented newcomers who are still to prove they’re better than the likes of: Alesi, Berger, Coulthard, Capelli, Frentzen, R. Schumacher - all of them prodigious in their initial career phase, only to choke and fade away when the slightest Wdc chance came along.
That’s not to say Leclerc or Verstappen won’t shine when the moment comes-just that they have not had the chance yet, so I’ll just wait and see how they will fare before emiting a clear judgement.

[Ivanhoe]

Ralf's teammate wasn't a 4 time world champion and Leclerc has more than just speed. There looks to be a strong head under pressure and a winner mentality.
For Leclerc to come into Ferrari in his second F1 season and put this kind of heat on Vettel says a lot, almost every time this car has been capable of winning it has been in Charles' hands.

How would you rate Ricciardo by those standards? Real deal+? Vettel as a benchmark is a bit of a questionmark at the moment.

[rocque]

I suppose Haas wanted a multi-year deal and Hulkenberg wanted to be a free agent next year.

Driving in the midfield is not a privilege for him. He took the gamble, has nothing to lose.

Edited by rocque, 20 September 2019 - 20:43.

[jannyg]

How would you rate Ricciardo by those standards? Real deal+? Vettel as a benchmark is a bit of a questionmark at the moment.

At that stage Ricciardo certainly was, and also in 2016 he was very strong but then the rule changes hurt his style.

Then an even better guy came and moved him along

Edited by jannyg, 20 September 2019 - 21:06.

[Brod]

Marklar.You are scrapping the proverbial  barrel mate! It's clear Leclerc the real dogs dangly bits! Just like Hamilton was when he was pitted with Alonso all those moons ago...Anyway,lets agree to disagree eh!

 

Leclerc has talent and is fast, but...Vettel is not Alonso and Leclerc this season is not on the level of Hamilton 2007. 

[jstrains]

In an interview Cyril said he wishes Nico all the best beyond Renault and beyond F1...

[johnwilliamdavies]

In interview on Sky, Marko says the spare Red Bull seat is between Alex and Pierre, with Kvyat staying at Toro Rosso.

[V8 Fireworks]

In interview on Sky, Marko says the spare Red Bull seat is between Alex and Pierre, with Kvyat staying at Toro Rosso.

 

Ouch!  That's not very nice for Kvyat.  Why not release Kvyat to HAAS and bring Vips to Toro Rosso, if Kvyat has no more chance in Red Bull program (presumably for being unable to outpace Gasly)?

[Anja]

Just confirming what we all knew already - Kvyat won't get another chance in Red Bull. For his sake, I really hope he finds another seat for 2021 since there's no future in STR, they will just replace him with the next youngster when the time comes. 

[Clatter]

Ouch! That's not very nice for Kvyat. Why not release Kvyat to HAAS and bring Vips to Toro Rosso, if Kvyat has no more chance in Red Bull program (presumably for being unable to outpace Gasly)?

He has a race seat so why would he want to go to haas?

[PlayboyRacer]

Leclerc has talent and is fast, but...Vettel is not Alonso and Leclerc this season is not on the level of Hamilton 2007.

Your right. Not on the level. But not far behind. Given Lewis has ended up a GOAT.... not bad so far Charlie boy.

[ATM]

Besides Haas has now 2 drivers employed. At least Kvyat has (presumably) a seat for next year and can wait in the game for 2021 - when all the big names contracts are up and the real musical chairs start. So not really that bad for the time being.

[SenorSjon]

Ouch! That's not very nice for Kvyat. Why not release Kvyat to HAAS and bring Vips to Toro Rosso, if Kvyat has no more chance in Red Bull program (presumably for being unable to outpace Gasly)?

TR is faster than Haas.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Ouch! That's not very nice for Kvyat. Why not release Kvyat to HAAS and bring Vips to Toro Rosso, if Kvyat has no more chance in Red Bull program (presumably for being unable to outpace Gasly)?

I think that might be the option for 2021. Surely Grosjean will not get yet another extension next year and Kvyat is probably not as demanding salary wise as Hulkenberg.

[sopa]

Surely Grosjean will not get yet another extension next year 

 

Don't necessarily underestimate this thing. Some drivers have an uncanny ability of hanging around.

[Anderis]

Surely Grosjean will not get yet another extension next year

People were saying the same things about this year.

[jstrains]

Will Buxton said in Post Q show that we will hear from Nico H. soon as we will not hear much from him until the end of the year as he is possibly out of F1

[Berner]

I don't think that Stroll has been confirmed. Could... maybe.... nah. Would make for a really awkward Christmas dinner chez Stroll if he was dropped.

[Marklar]

^he was mentioned in the Perez announcement to be paired with him in 2020

[SonGoku]

Of course Hulk is out, HAAS was his only option. Ferrari isn't going to give up Gio and in 2021 Mick Schumacher will join Alfa if things work out for him in F2. Williams need money and Latifi has it.

[Gambelli]

Hulk will either be doing sim work for Ferrari or Mercedes I would imagine, they'd be crazy not to get him on board and as an experienced 3rd driver.  Ferrari would be more logical as they could probably open more opportunities to do other things as well and he could also then hedge his bets on returning if Kimi retires next year. 

[Mohican]

Hulkenberg is his own worst enemy, asking too much money just as train is leaving the station.
No room at Alfa anyway.

[djparky]

I don't think that Stroll has been confirmed. Could... maybe.... nah. Would make for a really awkward Christmas dinner chez Stroll if he was dropped.

Stroll will be there as long as dad owns the team

Hulk will be a reserve driver somewhere

[DutchQuicksilver]

If he misses out, I doubt Hulkenberg will find a seat for 2021 either. There’s bound to be more talents coming through around that time. And if there’s no place for him now, why would there be in 2021?

[Marklar]

I dont think so. There is not much talent rn.

Mick will probably get a seat at Alfa. Tsunoda/Vips maybe at Toro Rosso. Zhou maybe at Renault if Ricciardo goes. But the last one is already a long shot.

At the same time Kimi and Vettel could retire too. Though, possibly people like Sainz & Norris (besides Ricciardo) are more interesting options.

Edited by Marklar, 22 September 2019 - 10:37.

[GTA]

Reading stuff that people aren't sure LeClerc is ready for a WDC challenge. I don't know if some people choose to ignore stuff or they are willfully being naive due to an agenda.   

 

IMO for a guy to be a WDC contender needs to have either the best car or equal best with an ability to consistently beat his teammate. Nobody is born with a gene to be a WDC. It is a mix of talent and opportunity. If Lewis had stayed at Mclaren or joined Ferrari back in 2013 then he would be a one time WDC. If Rosberg had Heidfeld as a teammate all these years then he could be a 4 time WDC. I don't buy this BS that some people keep commenting about that the best drivers end up in the best car. The entire F1 grid of drivers bar Kubica would probably be within 5-6 tenths of each other given equal cars given the depth of talent we have now. When the speed is there by default you have to look at other tangibles like overtaking/defending ability, ability in rain and ability to handle pressure. Charles has ticked all the boxes this year and towards the end of last year as well.

 

The only thing he doesn't have is the opportunity which the silver car has taken from every driver since 2014 and Red Bull before that. But he is in the 2nd best car and the law of averages says Ferrari are bound to get it right some time. Time is something proven champions had given Ferrari, Fernando and Seb gave Ferrari 10 years together and it didn't work out. For most champions a season like Alonso's in 2012 and Seb's in 2017 would result in a WDC at the end. But when you are going up against a better car it will not matter.  Maybe it will for Charles, maybe it won't but it surely won't be for his lack of trying.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I dont think so. There is not much talent rn.

Mick will probably get a seat at Alfa. Tsunoda/Vips maybe at Toro Rosso. Zhou maybe at Renault if Ricciardo goes. But the last one is already a long shot.

At the same time Kimi and Vettel could retire too. Though, possibly people like Sainz & Norris (besides Ricciardo) are more interesting options.

You’re forgetting drivers who are still on the grid for 2020. I think teams are more interested in the likes of Kvyat and Gasly who are still driving, than a Hulkenberg who’s been off the grid for a year and isn’t so young anymore.

[A.Fant]

I dont think so. There is not much talent rn.

Mick will probably get a seat at Alfa. Tsunoda/Vips maybe at Toro Rosso. Zhou maybe at Renault if Ricciardo goes. But the last one is already a long shot.

At the same time Kimi and Vettel could retire too. Though, possibly people like Sainz & Norris (besides Ricciardo) are more interesting options.

 

The current generation under F1 is basically the leftovers of what already got promoted beating the next upcoming generation which makes for an overall unimpressive group.

 

I have a hard time keeping a straight face when a name like Guanyu Zhou is being touted as a legit F1 prospect (not saying you personally classify him as this Marklar) after having been blown out of the water year in year out by Stroll, Russell, Norris etc.

 

The talents already got picked off. People like to pile on Stroll, but he is most likely head and shoulders above every single 2019 F2 driver.

 

The cream of the crop rises faster than ever. When Hamilton was as old as Leclerc and Verstappen he was wrapping up his GP2 championship.

Edited by A.Fant, 22 September 2019 - 11:31.

[Marklar]

You’re forgetting drivers who are still on the grid for 2020. I think teams are more interested in the likes of Kvyat and Gasly who are still driving, than a Hulkenberg who’s been off the grid for a year and isn’t so young anymore.

I'm not sure that Kvyat and Gasly are going to be in higher demand for 2021, unless Hulkenberg demands much salary, then yes, his F1 career is over unless a top team suddenly needs a quick stop gap. If a team needs a quick experienced team leader then he is a great option, perhaps Alfa if Kimi retires.
 

 

The current generation under F1 is basically the leftovers of what already got promoted beating the next upcoming generation which makes for an overall unimpressive group.

 

I have a hard time keeping a straight face when a name like Guanyu Zhou is being touted as a legit F1 prospect (not saying you personally classify him as this Marklar) after having been blown out of the water year in year out by Stroll, Russell, Norris etc.

 

The talents already got picked off. People like to pile on Stroll, but he is most likely head and shoulders above every single 2019 F2 driver.

 

The cream of the crop rises faster than ever. When Hamilton was as old as Leclerc and Verstappen he was wrapping up his GP2 championship.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but Zhou does look more promising in F2 than he did in F3, some drivers are suddenly showing more potential when put in cars with more power. Norris for instance also recently said that he prefers F1 over F2 cars as well.

Obviously I dont think that he is anywhere near Leclerc/Norris/Russell level, but it wouldnt surprise me to see him in F1, especially with his nationality in mind.

[A.Fant]

I'm not sure that Kvyat and Gasly are going to be in higher demand for 2021, unless Hulkenberg demands much salary, then yes, his F1 career is over unless a top team suddenly needs a quick stop gap. If a team needs a quick experienced team leader then he is a great option, perhaps Alfa if Kimi retires.
 

 

I'm not disagreeing with that, but Zhou does look more promising in F2 than he did in F3, some drivers are suddenly showing more potential when put in cars with more power. Norris for instance also recently said that he prefers F1 over F2 cars as well.

Obviously I dont think that he is anywhere near Leclerc/Norris/Russell level, but it wouldnt surprise me to see him in F1, especially with his nationality in mind.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Zhou in F1 either, but I think it will have a lot more to do with his nationality than his talent if that happens.

[Viryfan]

Zhou will probably have 14 or 16 points at most by the end of the season.
So Zhou needs at least a p4 in f2 standings next year.

[Montie]

The current generation under F1 is basically the leftovers of what already got promoted beating the next upcoming generation which makes for an overall unimpressive group.

I have a hard time keeping a straight face when a name like Guanyu Zhou is being touted as a legit F1 prospect (not saying you personally classify him as this Marklar) after having been blown out of the water year in year out by Stroll, Russell, Norris etc.

The talents already got picked off. People like to pile on Stroll, but he is most likely head and shoulders above every single 2019 F2 driver.

The cream of the crop rises faster than ever. When Hamilton was as old as Leclerc and Verstappen he was wrapping up his GP2 championship.

To be honest I think Lundgaard, if he qualify for SL after 2020, is more complete as a driver than Zhou and a better option for Renault.

[ElectricBoogie]

At least RB didn't want to miss out on Kvyat for next year. They know he's good at scoring points in a quick car.
Might they want to prevent an Alfa/Ferrari eventuality signing him early?

[Starchild]

So, now it's pretty much confirmed RB is not going to promote any of their junior drivers to F1 next year. Seems they think that Vips is not ready yet... So what's next for him? F2 or another year in F3?

[Anja]

So, now it's pretty much confirmed RB is not going to promote any of their junior drivers to F1 next year. Seems they think that Vips is not ready yet... So what's next for him? F2 or another year in F3?

 

No point in doing another F3 season, he's gonna be in F2 or SF for sure.