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2020 Formula 1 Silly Season


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#5801 Anja

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 18:26

From what I heard Alfa (the car manufacturer, not the team) isn't doing very good and their sales are nowhere near expectations despite all the big investments and marketing campaigns. If it doesn't change soon, at some point FCA is gonna pull the plug on that sponsorship anyway. 


Edited by Anja, 17 October 2019 - 18:27.


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#5802 sopa

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 18:49

Fiat going all in to sponsor multiple teams in F1 always seemed like a big undertaking. 



#5803 Anuity

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 19:14

Alfa has not being doing well in sales for a couple of decades.
I do think the exposure in F1 helped to up/refresh their image even if this did not lead to higher sales (possibly yet)
At least that’s my impression.

They cannot enter F1 on their own though, I don’t think they have resources/people/knowledge to do it, way too small.

#5804 Cornholio

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 22:11

very interesting. I would like to see Sauber back to Sauber as Alfa Romeo should do Formula One with an own engine or team but not just spending money and say, it's Alfa Romeo...

 

I always thought if Alfa was interested in paying money to be represented on the grid, paying to badge the engines and having them as Sauber-Alfa Romeos would have been more logical than the "Alfa Romeo-Ferrari" we currently have. Yes you could say it's fake but arguably no less so than naming the Sauber car, and would make more sense than Tag Heuer or Petronas or whatever we've had in the past (plus it wouldn't surprise me if Alfa road engines come from within the FIAT group too, similar to how other major manufacturers with multiple brands do things)



#5805 r4mses

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 23:31

Why would Sauber even want to switch to Mercedes engines ? What is there to say that Mercedes will be there in 2021 ? Or Honda ? Rather more likely that Ferrari will be there.

 

 

 

Well, they might supply half of the grid with their eninges-  sounds like easy money. Plus they might have a shot at getting HAM's 8th WDC, their 9th consecutive WCC - or the chance to proof they still got it, after losing to Ferrari/RBR in 2020.



#5806 player1s

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 06:49

From what I heard Alfa (the car manufacturer, not the team) isn't doing very good and their sales are nowhere near expectations despite all the big investments and marketing campaigns. If it doesn't change soon, at some point FCA is gonna pull the plug on that sponsorship anyway. 

 

Just a silly thought. Why not use Chrysler as sponsor and namesake for the Sauber team? With the potential Miami GP in 2021 (dont laugh y'all) it might not be a totally bad idea.

Although you'd expect that it be wiser for them to enter NASCAR again with Crysler or Dodge.



#5807 Mohican

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 07:13

Or what about the Jeep F1 team ? They already sponsor the Juventus football team.

#5808 JBJ

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 07:16

https://www.motorspo...-debut/4558623/

No idea about the superlicense points but I guess O'Ward is out of contention.

 



#5809 Marklar

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:18

Wonder if this is his end at Red Bull, which would be the dumbest thing they did yet.

What did they expected him to do midway through the season in 3 races in a series with cars he doesnt know on tracks he doesnt know, against people who do this for years. Not to mention that Super Formula is the wrong series to prepare yourself for F1 anyways.



#5810 JBJ

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:28

Wonder if this is his end at Red Bull, which would be the dumbest thing they did yet.

What did they expected him to do midway through the season in 3 races in a series with cars he doesnt know on tracks he doesnt know, against people who do this for years. Not to mention that Super Formula is the wrong series to prepare yourself for F1 anyways.

 

Progress I guess, which point wise he did, sort of



#5811 SenorSjon

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:30

Wonder if this is his end at Red Bull, which would be the dumbest thing they did yet.

What did they expected him to do midway through the season in 3 races in a series with cars he doesnt know on tracks he doesnt know, against people who do this for years. Not to mention that Super Formula is the wrong series to prepare yourself for F1 anyways.

 

This is getting ridiculous. I think it will be harder for RB to tie drivers to their program if they mill three drivers/season in the same car.



#5812 Clatter

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:59

This is getting ridiculous. I think it will be harder for RB to tie drivers to their program if they mill three drivers/season in the same car.

If they perform well enough they won't get moved around. There are not many similar programs that give drivers the same opportunity. Racing is a high pressure, performance judged sport. Young drivers will still sign up just for that chance.

Edited by Clatter, 18 October 2019 - 09:00.


#5813 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:04

Wonder if this is his end at Red Bull, which would be the dumbest thing they did yet.

What did they expected him to do midway through the season in 3 races in a series with cars he doesnt know on tracks he doesnt know, against people who do this for years. Not to mention that Super Formula is the wrong series to prepare yourself for F1 anyways.

 

Marko seems to have lost the plot completely. It's like he's obsessed with finding something at Max's level or preferably above and nothing else will do.



#5814 SenorSjon

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:07

If they perform well enough they won't get moved around. There are not many similar programs that give drivers the same opportunity. Racing is a high pressure, performance judged sport. Young drivers will still sign up just for that chance.

 

Not when you get roughly 3 races to prove yourself in a class where other drivers have much more experience.



#5815 r4mses

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:12

RB are just spoiled by VET and VER. Looks like they expect to get someone in the class of those two every year... which obviously is a naive pipe dream.



#5816 Marklar

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:17

In b4 the real reason is that O'ward gets FP1 in Mexico :p

#5817 Lotusseven

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:22

In b4 the real reason is that O'ward gets FP1 in Mexico :p

 

I think so...but we will see. 



#5818 djparky

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:39

Wonder if this is his end at Red Bull, which would be the dumbest thing they did yet.

What did they expected him to do midway through the season in 3 races in a series with cars he doesnt know on tracks he doesnt know, against people who do this for years. Not to mention that Super Formula is the wrong series to prepare yourself for F1 anyways.


Hoping OWard will end up back in Indy Car next year...

#5819 AustinF1

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 17:46

Just a silly thought. Why not use Chrysler as sponsor and namesake for the Sauber team? With the potential Miami GP in 2021 (dont laugh y'all) it might not be a totally bad idea.

Although you'd expect that it be wiser for them to enter NASCAR again with Crysler or Dodge.

 

 

Or what about the Jeep F1 team ? They already sponsor the Juventus football team.

 

Dodge.



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#5820 Marklar

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 21:24

Seems like O'Ward is another super licence victim

“My release from Red Bull was going to be November, but Dr. Helmut Marko called and said, ‘Hey you have options in IndyCar, take it. That’s your future’. I really appreciated him doing that.”

At the time that he joined Red Bull, O’Ward was expected to be awarded the Super License required to compete in Formula 1. But after eligibility points were reduced for his Indy Lights title due to the modest car count, the possibility of reaching F1 within the organization became remote. Continuing a relationship with no specific path to the top was deemed untenable.

“The FIA threw us both under the bus,” O’Ward said. “To be fairly honest, I need to go somewhere to earn good money, and F2 wasn’t going to be it. If I’m not going to make it in F1, I wanted to be in IndyCar. Dr. Marko calls me ‘Potato,’ and he called earlier, and said ‘Potato, it’s very hard because you have no Super License points,’ and there was no scenario [racing in Japan] that was going to give me a Super License. I couldn’t do anything [for them] without a Super License. I got signed because of that, and then everything went south.”

“I’ve learned that racing not always a nice sport and I’m very grateful to Red Bull for the opportunity,” said O’Ward, who was replaced by Red Bull junior driver Juri Vips in the Super Formula seat.

“It showed me the caliber of person that Dr. Marko is and why he has so much success. Huge respect for him and whole team. He cared about my future, that means a lot. Things didn’t turn out like we expected, but he was concerned about my future, and that is very cool.”

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#5821 ATM

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 21:30

The kid does know politics well though. Other guys would have grumbled a bit but he’s keeping his medium to long future options open, by not shooting his mouth against a powerful paddock figure. Guess the Hartley example made guys understand that playing the long game sometimes pays off.

#5822 Beri

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 21:45

Dodge.


Chrysler would have some unfinished business in F1 one could think. The Chrysler/Lamborghini V12 engine was way better than that dog of a V10 that Peugeot produced. I never understood why Ron Dennis let Chrysler go. And with that, in effect, also dismissed Senna. Who did promise to drive for McLaren for free in 1994 should Dennis have opted for the Chrysler engine. Senna with Forghieri were a strong couple in the development of that engine. Too bad it never came to fruition m

#5823 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 21:57

The Peugeot V10 was a much more successful engine than the Lambo V12.



#5824 loki

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 04:30

The Chrysler of yore is a far bit away from what they are today.  You’ll not see them in any motorsport let alone F1.  It’s absolutely not the target market of Chrysler these days.



#5825 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 06:43

The Chrysler of yore is a far bit away from what they are today.  You’ll not see them in any motorsport let alone F1.  It’s absolutely not the target market of Chrysler these days.

 

Do you not even see Vipers in GT racing anymore?



#5826 theflyingwheel

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 09:45

Do you not even see Vipers in GT racing anymore?


Technically speaking the Viper although is from the parent company Chrysler it was never branded Chrysler but first was Dodge and if I’m not mistaken which I’m not sure was later under the SRT brand, Chrysler by now only produces two models (300c and Pacifica?) and the only high performance models are the Challenger Diablo (No longer sold), the Hellcat the Charger Hellcat produced by Dodge and then trail/track hawk versions of the Jeep Cherokee.

#5827 Montie

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 10:08

Technically speaking the Viper although is from the parent company Chrysler it was never branded Chrysler but first was Dodge and if I’m not mistaken which I’m not sure was later under the SRT brand, Chrysler by now only produces two models (300c and Pacifica?) and the only high performance models are the Challenger Diablo (No longer sold), the Hellcat the Charger Hellcat produced by Dodge and then trail/track hawk versions of the Jeep Cherokee.


Chrysler Viper GTS-R. You should try the internet.

#5828 Beri

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 10:39

The Peugeot V10 was a much more successful engine than the Lambo V12.

Yes I know. The 905 did marvelous things with that V10 in the back. But to have 10 dnfs engine related, doesn't say it was a fantastic engine in the back of the McLaren.
That Chrysler/Lambo engine, that Senna and Hakkinen tested, became better and better. It and the test mule were actually on par speed wise seen compared to the MP4-8 with that Ford V8 of 1993. Actually it quickly became clear that the McLaren Chrysler was evolving and during a Silverstone test, the McLaren with the Chrysler engine was actually 1.6 seconds faster than the qualifying time Senna set earlier that year. It was proof that the Chrysler engine was becoming better. And due to this, I cannot understand the Peugeot deal. That V10 was not tested in F1 to great extent.

Edited by Beri, 19 October 2019 - 10:39.


#5829 theflyingwheel

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 10:46

Chrysler Viper GTS-R. You should try the internet.


You are right, it was branded in 1996 under the Chrysler badge, my mistake thanks for the clarification.

#5830 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:31

Yes I know. The 905 did marvelous things with that V10 in the back. But to have 10 dnfs engine related, doesn't say it was a fantastic engine in the back of the McLaren.
That Chrysler/Lambo engine, that Senna and Hakkinen tested, became better and better. It and the test mule were actually on par speed wise seen compared to the MP4-8 with that Ford V8 of 1993. Actually it quickly became clear that the McLaren Chrysler was evolving and during a Silverstone test, the McLaren with the Chrysler engine was actually 1.6 seconds faster than the qualifying time Senna set earlier that year. It was proof that the Chrysler engine was becoming better. And due to this, I cannot understand the Peugeot deal. That V10 was not tested in F1 to great extent.

I don’t think you can draw too many conclusions about pace over the winter of 93/94.



#5831 Henri Greuter

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 18:31

Yes I know. The 905 did marvelous things with that V10 in the back. But to have 10 dnfs engine related, doesn't say it was a fantastic engine in the back of the McLaren.
That Chrysler/Lambo engine, that Senna and Hakkinen tested, became better and better. It and the test mule were actually on par speed wise seen compared to the MP4-8 with that Ford V8 of 1993. Actually it quickly became clear that the McLaren Chrysler was evolving and during a Silverstone test, the McLaren with the Chrysler engine was actually 1.6 seconds faster than the qualifying time Senna set earlier that year. It was proof that the Chrysler engine was becoming better. And due to this, I cannot understand the Peugeot deal. That V10 was not tested in F1 to great extent.

 

 

I don’t think you can draw too many conclusions about pace over the winter of 93/94.

 

 

Wasn't it also a matter of Peugeot being more comitted to the program with bringing in more money to the team than Chrysler planned to do. Thus forcing McLaren to search for additional fundings should they opt for the Chryslers?



#5832 Maxioos

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 20:29

The kid does know politics well though. Other guys would have grumbled a bit but he’s keeping his medium to long future options open, by not shooting his mouth against a powerful paddock figure. Guess the Hartley example made guys understand that playing the long game sometimes pays off.


Well, it just seems true. Why is that so hard to believe? He has hotels and cares about the people working there, he cares about his drivers. Kvyat did call HIM for the STR seat, not the other way around. If it wasn't went with respect atm. he left RBR and joined Ferrari, he never would have called. Hard but fair. Look at the chance they/he gave Albon and how that seems to play out for all parties. He could have equally choice De Vries, but he didn't, and lots and lots of others that just mis out just on getting the favour yes ot no. And some, that massive profit from that opportunity.

#5833 Beri

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 21:34

I don’t think you can draw too many conclusions about pace over the winter of 93/94.


In the way Senna was so outspoken and so committed, I think you can.


Wasn't it also a matter of Peugeot being more comitted to the program with bringing in more money to the team than Chrysler planned to do. Thus forcing McLaren to search for additional fundings should they opt for the Chryslers?


If I recall correctly, this was indeed the case. Yet there was sponsorship from Marlboro and Senna (allegedly) would have driven for free. To me those would have been no brainers.
Yet one could imagine Dennis not taking the gamble for Chrysler and taking the safe route for Peugeot, like Payr said. Dennis committed his complete organization on Honda, only to be dumped by Honda after just 5 seasons. I can imagine this being fresh on his mind once he decided to go for Peugeot.

#5834 Gambelli

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 21:57

Yes I know. The 905 did marvelous things with that V10 in the back. But to have 10 dnfs engine related, doesn't say it was a fantastic engine in the back of the McLaren.
That Chrysler/Lambo engine, that Senna and Hakkinen tested, became better and better. It and the test mule were actually on par speed wise seen compared to the MP4-8 with that Ford V8 of 1993. Actually it quickly became clear that the McLaren Chrysler was evolving and during a Silverstone test, the McLaren with the Chrysler engine was actually 1.6 seconds faster than the qualifying time Senna set earlier that year. It was proof that the Chrysler engine was becoming better. And due to this, I cannot understand the Peugeot deal. That V10 was not tested in F1 to great extent.

 

Yeah I remember this back at the time too.  The team from memory were very impressed with the Chrysler engine and the lap improvement was apparently pretty genuine in terms of a big part of it being the engine contribution.  I think at the time Peugeot promised quite a lot, and seemed to have big potential, and it was just too tempting I think for McLaren.  Peugeot were doing well too in sports cars, F1 was a logical step.  I think too, again from a very distant memory, that they also felt that the V12, whilst powerful, was not the way forward vs a V10 arrangement.



#5835 Beri

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:06

The V10 vs V12 comparison was indeed in favor of the V10. As Henri Greuter so very well said on another thread somewhere.
Yet, it still amazes me that Ron Dennis would shove a deal aside to retain your star driver for free, get free engines that your star driver is already putting so much effort in and is so positive about and to have hardcore data showing that engine is actually much much much better compared to the current engine you use.
Peugeot must have promised Dennis mountains of gold and diamonds to throw Chrysler and Senna away that easily.

Edited by Beri, 19 October 2019 - 22:06.


#5836 PayasYouRace

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:09

Aaaaaanyway. 2020 anyone?



#5837 Beri

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:20

Ah yeah, I forgot this was about 2020 😂

#5838 noikeee

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:21

We're really just waiting for the confimation of Latifi at Williams, Giovinazzi at Alfa, and Gasly and Kvyat at Alpha (ugh that sounds so wrong), aren't we?



#5839 Beri

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:23

Throw Hulkenberg in the mix and we've got the complete picture. Yes, I guess that's all.

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#5840 Gambelli

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:27

We're really just waiting for the confimation of Latifi at Williams, Giovinazzi at Alfa, and Gasly and Kvyat at Alpha (ugh that sounds so wrong), aren't we?

 

Oh crap, thats right, we have Alfa and Alpha next year, great!  :rolleyes:



#5841 FLB

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:34

Oh crap, thats right, we have Alfa and Alpha next year, great!  :rolleyes:

OT.

In the CFL, we had both the Ottawa Rough Riders AND the Saskatchewan Roughriders for a while. So, the South Park joke of the Canadian football game of the Rough Riders vs the Roughriders wasn’t actually a joke...

#5842 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:46

Tbh we might as well start the 2021 thread :p

#5843 rocque

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 22:58

 

Verstappen: Ricciardo Red Bull dynamic was "ideal situation"

Max Verstappen says the ideal teammate for him in Formula 1 is one who can push him to greater heights like Daniel Ricciardo did.

[...]

While the rivalry with a strong teammate is more intense, Verstappen says it is a better for a team as it allows it to make more rapid progress with the car.

“In the end this is also very important for the team,” he added. “You also want someone who works in the same direction in terms of setup and wants the same things from the car. Then you can also develop the car much better.

“Then you can put the cars on different programs on a Friday, if you can rely on both drivers to get the right information. These things are very important for me, but also for the team.”

 

https://www.motorspo...d-bull/4560087/

Helmut knows better who is right teammate for Max...  :rotfl:


Edited by rocque, 19 October 2019 - 22:59.


#5844 Marklar

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:07

Marko wanted to keep Ricciardo, he had 55 million other reasons though :p

#5845 loki

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:46

Do you not even see Vipers in GT racing anymore?

 

Those were branded via the Dodge Motorsports program.  The at track activation was Dodge as well.  Even prior to the bankruptcy Dodge was the performance badge with Chrysler being the family car badge.  SRTwas/is the performance division (it’s now under Dodge as Dodge SRT) like Honda has HPD and Toyota has TRD.  The SRT badge is also used for the performance models across all the brands in the family.  Nascar was Dodge.  Dodge/Mopar have a big presence in the NHRA.  That’s the target demo in the US, muscle/performance cars.  They are the title sponsor of at least two NHRA national events.  From the FCA stable none of the US brands would be a good fit for F1.



#5846 rocque

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:53

Who cares about Ricciardo? Nino Hinderburg is available...

#5847 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 23:57

https://www.motorspo...d-bull/4560087/
Helmut knows better who is right teammate for Max... :rotfl:

Someone should whisper to Max that Alonso is available. That might give him his 'ideal situation'.

#5848 HeadFirst

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 00:04

We're really just waiting for the confimation of Latifi at Williams, Giovinazzi at Alfa, and Gasly and Kvyat at Alpha (ugh that sounds so wrong), aren't we?

 

Latifi has money behind him, alot of money. Anyone know if any of it is from Lavazza??? Love their coffee! Btw ... not really impressed with Latifi, but wewillsee.  :clap:



#5849 jstrains

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 05:48

Yeah right, I just wanted to ask if we have any news on Alonso...

#5850 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 06:33

Those were branded via the Dodge Motorsports program. The at track activation was Dodge as well. Even prior to the bankruptcy Dodge was the performance badge with Chrysler being the family car badge. SRTwas/is the performance division (it’s now under Dodge as Dodge SRT) like Honda has HPD and Toyota has TRD. The SRT badge is also used for the performance models across all the brands in the family. Nascar was Dodge. Dodge/Mopar have a big presence in the NHRA. That’s the target demo in the US, muscle/performance cars. They are the title sponsor of at least two NHRA national events. From the FCA stable none of the US brands would be a good fit for F1.


None of that actually matters given we were talking about the parent company anyway.