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2020 Formula 1 Silly Season


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#6201 Ali623

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 14:07

Why? It's not like his F2 performance this year warrants it.

 

He actually showed decent speed in F2 this year, just needs to work on things like tyre management during the race which screwed him quite a few times. I think he also had his fair share of unlucky moments.

 

If he can improve these little things, I could definitely see him finishing in the top 5 next season.



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#6202 tyker

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 14:11

I thought Mick Schumacher might feature in Alfa Romeo's plans for next season, like as test and reserve driver.

Surely he's set for that seat in 2021.

He also needs to have enough F1 super license points



#6203 statman

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 14:18

He actually showed decent speed in F2 this year, just needs to work on things like tyre management during the race which screwed him quite a few times. I think he also had his fair share of unlucky moments.

 

If he can improve these little things, I could definitely see him finishing in the top 5 next season.

 

and more importantly: his racecraft in wheel-to-wheel racing..

 

But other than that, sure he will be in at Alfa  :lol:

 

Thankfully we have a super license system.



#6204 Ali623

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 14:26

and more importantly: his racecraft in wheel-to-wheel racing..

 

But other than that, sure he will be in at Alfa  :lol:

 

Thankfully we have a super license system.

 

He was pretty awful looking in F3 until it all seemed to click in the second half of last year (unless you're Dan Ticktum and believe in conspiracy theories). I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar happen in F2 next year. 

 

Let's be honest, when he gets enough points, he's in the Alfa regardless how how good he is.



#6205 george1981

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 14:52

He was pretty awful looking in F3 until it all seemed to click in the second half of last year (unless you're Dan Ticktum and believe in conspiracy theories). I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar happen in F2 next year. 

 

Let's be honest, when he gets enough points, he's in the Alfa regardless how how good he is.

 

I think you're correct, it's pretty clear an F1 seat is his for the taking. I think Ralf Schumacher owes his start in F1 and his career longevity to being Michael's brother more than anything else. Although I was a big fan of Ralf's when he was a driver and defended him on numerous occasions I feel he didn't deserve his all of time in F1 even taken in context with the other 00s drivers. He did occasionally show the brilliance of Michael but never consistantly and didn't seem to have the work ethic. 



#6206 BRG

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 16:46

He also needs to have enough F1 super license points

Pah, when your name is Schumacher, you don't need no SL points.  The rules will be waived. 



#6207 noikeee

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 16:58

Doesn't Mick already have enough points thanks to having won F3 Euro?

He just needs a decent enough F2 season next year so that he looks like he's improving and so that Ferrari can save face (they would look like idiots if he's like, 10th in the standings again and given a F1 seat). I reckon top 4 will be good enough.

He also needs to beat Shwartzmann and Armstrong otherwise that's gonna look bad since they'll be rookies.

#6208 balage06

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 17:36

Doesn't Mick already have enough points thanks to having won F3 Euro?

 

Nope, he has only 30 points from the last 3 years. (The FIA has reduced the value of F3 in the system.)



#6209 tyker

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:02

Nope, he has only 30 points from the last 3 years. (The FIA has reduced the value of F3 in the system.)

So he needs to finish in the top 6 in F2, but have they not now decided to give so many points to drivers for competing x amount of mileage in a F1 car so maybe he could even finish top 8 in F2 and still get a F1 super license, that being the case it would kind of look like a low bar for admittance?



#6210 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:44

Nope, he has only 30 points from the last 3 years. (The FIA has reduced the value of F3 in the system.)

They didn't retroactively remove points though?

#6211 Marklar

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 18:48

They didn't retroactively remove points though?

unless you already got into F1 they do adjust the points retroactively, yes.

#6212 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 19:07

So he needs to finish in the top 6 in F2, but have they not now decided to give so many points to drivers for competing x amount of mileage in a F1 car so maybe he could even finish top 8 in F2 and still get a F1 super license, that being the case it would kind of look like a low bar for admittance?

After winning F3, that is.



#6213 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 14:28

unless you already got into F1 they do adjust the points retroactively, yes.

 

That is harsh. The field strength is far from the same year-on-year.



#6214 Marklar

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 19:50

Never was Breaking News less appropriate

20191114-204736.jpg

(Nico Hülkenberg will not race in F1 in 2020)

#6215 jannyg

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 19:59

Hulk to IndyCar. Under Ed Carpenter racing, street courses only.

#6216 tyker

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 20:27

After winning F3, that is.

European F3 alone doesn't provide enough points though, not being able to finish in the top 6 of F2 but still getting a seat in F1 doesn't set much of a high standard for admittance.



#6217 tyker

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 20:30

That is harsh. The field strength is far from the same year-on-year.

If they didn't have a 3 year window then perhaps most drivers would be able to get the required F1 super license points merely through attrition.



#6218 OvDrone

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 23:53

It's great that Williams will close this thread out.

 

You know, last.

 

Like they are on the track.



#6219 ARTGP

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 00:24

I would have to imagine that Hulkenberg will race at Le Mans again in the hypercar class with Peugeot or Aston Martin.


Edited by ARTGP, 15 November 2019 - 00:24.


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#6220 HeadFirst

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 04:11

It's great that Williams will close this thread out.

 

You know, last.

 

Like they are on the track.

 

Harsh ...... but sadly very true.



#6221 BRG

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:09

Never was Breaking News less appropriate

(Nico Hülkenberg will not race in F1 in 2020)

Hardly breaking news, but you can't expect any better from Sky.



#6222 Joseki

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 12:24

I would have to imagine that Hulkenberg will race at Le Mans again in the hypercar class with Peugeot or Aston Martin.


Hypercar is coming September 2020 and it's only Aston Martin that will be there with open seats, as Toyota will continue with its superteam.

#6223 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 03:14

Mec  Ham Bot

Fer  Lec Rai

RB  Ver Alb

McL  Sai Nor

Ren  Ric Oco

TR  Gas Kyv

RP  Per Str

AR/T  Hul Gio

HS  Mag Gro

WiL  Rus Lat

 

Vettel retires.



#6224 Mohican

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 09:02

Won’t happen. Raikkonen is done with Ferrari.



#6225 HeadFirst

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:26

Won’t happen. Raikkonen is done with Ferrari.

 

Kimi would return to Ferrari based on the quality of the food, and coffee provided alone. :clap:



#6226 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 03:43

Never was Breaking News less appropriate

20191114-204736.jpg

(Nico Hülkenberg will not race in F1 in 2020)

 

It's also not necessarily true...there's still the williams seat...or maybe he take over from Bernd Mayländer  :p  :stoned:


Edited by pitlanepalpatine, 19 November 2019 - 03:43.


#6227 george1981

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 04:53

Mec  Ham Bot

Fer  Lec Rai

RB  Ver Alb

McL  Sai Nor

Ren  Ric Oco

TR  Gas Kyv

RP  Per Str

AR/T  Hul Gio

HS  Mag Gro

WiL  Rus Lat

 

Vettel retires.

 

Isn't it rumoured that Ricciardo has a Ferrari/Mercedes seat escape clause in his Renault contract? If so I suspect that if Vettel retired he'd be in that Ferrari faster than a fast thing. Then Hulkenberg could stay at Renault for 1 year. 

 

 

Kimi would return to Ferrari based on the quality of the food, and coffee provided alone. :clap:

 

Ice cream surely. 



#6228 Beri

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 06:06

Ricciardo to Ferrari will never happen.

#6229 Beri

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 06:06

Neither Mercedes.

#6230 Ivanhoe

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 07:45

Isn't it rumoured that Ricciardo has a Ferrari/Mercedes seat escape clause in his Renault contract? If so I suspect that if Vettel retired he'd be in that Ferrari faster than a fast thing. Then Hulkenberg could stay at Renault for 1 year. 

 

 

 

Ice cream surely. 

Ricciardo explicitly denied he has an escape clause in his contract.

 

https://www.grandpri...ted-to-renault/



#6231 george1981

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 10:23

Ricciardo explicitly denied he has an escape clause in his contract.

 

https://www.grandpri...ted-to-renault/

 

I know he said that but I've seen other F1 drivers make certain claims about their contracts etc. that have turned out to be incorrect and driver contracts are said to be very complicated and almost unreadable to a non-legally trained observer.

I believe Rosberg leaving abruptly caught a lot of people out and while Ricciardo might not have an explicit if Mercedes/Ferrari have a vacancy clause I would be very surprised if he couldn't make himself available if the situation arose. 

I also believe that when he was asked about a clause he'd shut down the talk immediately. There's no vacancy yet and might not be, he's a Renault driver and anything less than an affirmative denial of a clause will just allow the rumours to run on. 



#6232 taran

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 11:31

I know he said that but I've seen other F1 drivers make certain claims about their contracts etc. that have turned out to be incorrect and driver contracts are said to be very complicated and almost unreadable to a non-legally trained observer.

I believe Rosberg leaving abruptly caught a lot of people out and while Ricciardo might not have an explicit if Mercedes/Ferrari have a vacancy clause I would be very surprised if he couldn't make himself available if the situation arose. 

I also believe that when he was asked about a clause he'd shut down the talk immediately. There's no vacancy yet and might not be, he's a Renault driver and anything less than an affirmative denial of a clause will just allow the rumours to run on. 

 

Not sure why you wish to continue flogging this poor horse but all contracts are logged with the contract board and have real teeth.

Normally, only retirement can get a driver out of a contract.

Usually, such contracts will have a predetermined penalty fee if a driver wants to leave. Under EU law, you can't force anyone to work but you also can't just up and leave to go work somewhere else. So either a lengthy gardening leave or a penalty fee.

 

As to Ricciardo's case, obviously outsiders don't know all the details but considering Renault was looking for a star to lead their team and willing to pay crazy money for a Ricciardo desperate to get away from Verstappen, they surely weren't interested in allowing their expensive star to seek new pastures while they are busy building the team around him. That's partly why he got so much money without really justifying it with his results IMO.

 

So if a slot opens up, Ricciardo could go there if he or his new team were willing to pay what I presume would be a hefty fee. Even Williams got a lot of money out of Mercedes for Bottas.....



#6233 noikeee

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 12:06

Not sure why you wish to continue flogging this poor horse but all contracts are logged with the contract board and have real teeth.

Normally, only retirement can get a driver out of a contract.

Usually, such contracts will have a predetermined penalty fee if a driver wants to leave. Under EU law, you can't force anyone to work but you also can't just up and leave to go work somewhere else. So either a lengthy gardening leave or a penalty fee.

 

As to Ricciardo's case, obviously outsiders don't know all the details but considering Renault was looking for a star to lead their team and willing to pay crazy money for a Ricciardo desperate to get away from Verstappen, they surely weren't interested in allowing their expensive star to seek new pastures while they are busy building the team around him. That's partly why he got so much money without really justifying it with his results IMO.

 

So if a slot opens up, Ricciardo could go there if he or his new team were willing to pay what I presume would be a hefty fee. Even Williams got a lot of money out of Mercedes for Bottas.....

 

I gave you a like because I agree it makes no sense Renault would've given him such a huge contract with a clause that lets him go away whenever he wants; but I don't quite agree with the "he didn't justify a big contract with his results". He did go to a big team and beat the established multiple world champion there... and proved himself to be a contender for a race winner every season that was barely on the cards. It's true Verstappen then found another gear whilst next to him, but so far it really does look like Verstappen is a complete freak outlier rather than Dan being average.

 

2019 has not been his greatest year but I still think he's a top 5 driver on the grid. He's even started outpacing Hulkenberg more clearly the last few race weekends.



#6234 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 12:29

Ricciardo has done well for himself. Better than Hulk. 
Should Ferrari be on the phone a budget for him, say 25M first year, 20M after, he can shove 20M up Renault's nose and live off 5M for a year. Renault won't keep a driver that wants to leave.
RIC actually seems to have a fair shot against LEC. He's got his errors sorted out mostly, dependably quick. Able to produce outlier drives once in a while.
I'd love to see it happen, and not just because teflon Vettel would be off my screen. Please let him not sign for Sky.



#6235 taran

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 12:31

I gave you a like because I agree it makes no sense Renault would've given him such a huge contract with a clause that lets him go away whenever he wants; but I don't quite agree with the "he didn't justify a big contract with his results". He did go to a big team and beat the established multiple world champion there... and proved himself to be a contender for a race winner every season that was barely on the cards. It's true Verstappen then found another gear whilst next to him, but so far it really does look like Verstappen is a complete freak outlier rather than Dan being average.

 

2019 has not been his greatest year but I still think he's a top 5 driver on the grid. He's even started outpacing Hulkenberg more clearly the last few race weekends.

 

Fair enough. I understand some people view Ricciardo in a different way. I feel his stint at Renault showed his true level. I don't rate Hulkenberg very high and he was a bit too close to Ricciardo to consider the Money Badger top drawer.

Even his signature move, the late braking, was more due to the Red Bull than his ability as shown by him now bouncing off other cars.

 

I'd love to see him against Perez who I rate highly..



#6236 george1981

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 15:44

...

So if a slot opens up, Ricciardo could go there if he or his new team were willing to pay what I presume would be a hefty fee.

...

 

 

That's what I was getting at with my I would be very surprised if he couldn't make himself available if the situation arose. 

 

I know the contracts are logged with the contract recognition board and will certainly be enforceable. But I don't know the terms or conditions, I expect only a handful of people in the world know this information and even then it will be open to interpretation and might have to go to arbitration if there were a dispute. I am very sure that Daniel Ricciardo will know exactly what he has to do if he wants to leave Renault if a seat comes up elsewhere at short notice. 


Edited by george1981, 21 November 2019 - 15:44.


#6237 Lerdes

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 17:04

Ricciardo is just another driver who will be trying to find a seat for winning the WDC but will never succed. He gave up (voluntary) one of the slots and now he's out of real options. Just like Alonso was after leaving Ferrari... Sometimes you just make the wrong decisions...



#6238 Mohican

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 17:14

Nothing new here. Chris Amon left Ferrari in 1969 - and then left March the following year. Ickx (Ferrari) and Peterson (March) were P2 in Championship in 1970-71.

Fittipaldi leaving McLaren in 1975, Reutemann going to Lotus in 1979, Rosberg leaving Williams 1985, Alesi choosing Ferrari over Williams 1990, Hill joining Arrows 1997 and many others.
Some things seemed a good idea at the time. Perhaps.

#6239 ARTGP

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 17:49

Ricciardo is just another driver who will be trying to find a seat for winning the WDC but will never succed. He gave up (voluntary) one of the slots and now he's out of real options. Just like Alonso was after leaving Ferrari... Sometimes you just make the wrong decisions...

 

I'd love to be wrong about something, and still make millions and millions a year  :rotfl: .



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#6240 Lerdes

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 18:35

I'd love to be wrong about something, and still make millions and millions a year  :rotfl: .

 

Yes. If you prefer millions after millions over being the best... Mabye that's the right approach. But I doubt Ricciardo is with you...



#6241 Henri Greuter

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 19:20

Nothing new here. Chris Amon left Ferrari in 1969 - and then left March the following year. Ickx (Ferrari) and Peterson (March) were P2 in Championship in 1970-71.

Fittipaldi leaving McLaren in 1975, Reutemann going to Lotus in 1979, Rosberg leaving Williams 1985, Alesi choosing Ferrari over Williams 1990, Hill joining Arrows 1997 and many others.
Some things seemed a good idea at the time. Perhaps.

 

 

Hill going to Arrows was not his own doing. Frank Williams and Patrick Head had decided they were no longer satisfied with Damon Hill anymore and wanted Frentzen instead so Hill was told to be laid off. There was not much choise left to remain in F1 wit a top team from then anymore. If Damon chosose for Arrows, it was not because of him wanting it: his first choise was to remain with Williams. But at that time, Frank&Patrick had little to no compassion for any driver anymore who they felt had served his purpose.

The move from Hill to Arrows was most of all caused by the behaviour of Frank&Patrick.

 

Edit

BTW: The then current desigenr at Williams was Adrian Newey and he had been promised to have influenc in the decision of drivers within the team. Frank&Patrick however didn't feel it necessary to keep that promise and thus informed Newey about what they had decided. That was the final straw breaking for Newey and thereafter he left Williams.

 

"Nice couple" Frank&Patrick, matters like this and others of the past make that I can't shed a tear about the current situation of Williams for the slightest split of a second.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 21 November 2019 - 19:28.


#6242 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 19:27

All those examples have good stories behind them, but to expand on Damon's, Arrows certainly wasn't his first choice and he was somewhat forced into it by the late decision to sack him and other factors such as Ron Dennis' joke of an offer of a McLaren deal. But, Arrows seemed like it could be a good option for the future going into 1997. TWR had just taken over from Jackie Oliver, and their track record in motorsport was excellent up until that point. They'd just sealed the deal on a works engine supply and Bridgestone wasn't a bad gamble either, as McLaren showed in 1998. It just turned out that Tom Walkinshaw for all his previous success couldn't recreate that form in F1.



#6243 ATM

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 19:27

It’s a good contingency plan though. Plus the fact that he might have lost the intra-team battle with Verstappen this year, had he stayed, was not a good thing for his future plans.
This way, at least, he can say he beaten his current team-mate and it was down to the car for his limited success.

#6244 HeadFirst

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 03:55

Fair enough. I understand some people view Ricciardo in a different way. I feel his stint at Renault showed his true level. I don't rate Hulkenberg very high and he was a bit too close to Ricciardo to consider the Money Badger top drawer.

Even his signature move, the late braking, was more due to the Red Bull than his ability as shown by him now bouncing off other cars.

 

I'd love to see him against Perez who I rate highly..

 

Given that ^ statement, I can imagine how you rate Max who still has the wonderful Red Bull and still does bounce off other cars.



#6245 Reddington

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 06:06

Given that ^ statement, I can imagine how you rate Max who still has the wonderful Red Bull and still does bounce off other cars.


And there we go again....

#6246 ForzaFormula

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 07:32

Given that ^ statement, I can imagine how you rate Max who still has the wonderful Red Bull and still does bounce off other cars.


His statement suggests max would be crashing into cars left right and centre of he was in a renault.

#6247 sopa

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 10:10

Instead of Hill-to-Arrows, Villeneuve-to-BAR should be used as an example. This pretty much was a voluntary decision.


Edited by sopa, 22 November 2019 - 10:11.


#6248 HeadFirst

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 22:03

His statement suggests max would be crashing into cars left right and centre of he was in a renault.

 

No it doesn't. It suggests that Dan was only capable of his late braking moves, because he was in a Red Bull and that his true form is what we see now. I think Dan is having a tough year, perhaps due in part to the team change, but that his true form was what we saw at Red Bull.



#6249 Gambelli

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:47

No it doesn't. It suggests that Dan was only capable of his late braking moves, because he was in a Red Bull and that his true form is what we see now. I think Dan is having a tough year, perhaps due in part to the team change, but that his true form was what we saw at Red Bull.

 

Maybe I'm biased, but I think Dan has had a pretty reasonable year.  The car has been pretty bad with poor reliability, he's struggled to adapt backwards in performance and fight in the midfield, and he had to spend a lot of time getting the braking right in the car, but since summer break, and despite being hit in Spa, DQ'd from qualy in Singapore, and DQ'd in Japan, none his fault, he's driven very well and proven he most likely is a driver who is better than the majority of the grid and possibly top 4 at the moment (behind Hamilton and Verstappen, and possibly Charles) I think he'd still handle Vettel...



#6250 Myrvold

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 14:31

Nope, he has only 30 points from the last 3 years. (The FIA has reduced the value of F3 in the system.)


But point changes dont change previous seasons do they?