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Introduction of safety cars to European racing


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#1 bartez1000

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:47

To my understanding, with the exception for 1973 Canadian GP, safety car was not used in Formula One World Championship until 1993. Some photos of cars used prior to 1993 labeled "safety car", like Monaco's red Countach were not safety cars in modern understanding, but rather vehicles with doctor trailing the field during first lap. Currently medical cars are used this way.
 
I have questions about two issues:
Why until 1993 safety car was used once? Was it not regulated by FIA, but left to race organizers? If so, were drivers notified prior to race about possibility of safety car presence, and about rules they should follow when it was on circuit?
 
Currently, safety cars are used in all FIA led formulae and sportscar races. It wasn't always like that. When safety cars were introduced to F3000, F3 or WSC and other "european" style racing?


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#2 Victor_RO

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:56

I seem to remember from a review video that the Safety Car concept was introduced at Le Mans in about 1980 or 1981 (though I guess a pace car for the formation lap must have come in when they moved to the rolling start in '71); not sure when it saw wider use in the WSPC, but from season review videos I do remember races around 1985-86 being neutralized.



#3 f1steveuk

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:34

First trialled in Austria 1973, first used in a race situation in Canada, the cars were simply not fast enough to allow the race cars to travel fast enough to cool the engines. It had been marginal in Canada, and the ambient temperature was very low.

 

Monaco had used the Countach and I recall a Renault 5 Turbo 2, which was crashed. 



#4 dolomite

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 17:29

IIRC what was then known as a 'Pace Car' was introduced in the U.K. for the Indy car races at Silverstone and Brands in 1978

#5 Blue6ix

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 19:49

Silverstone also had a few different Safety Cars back in old days and during the 1990s.

 

This topic is definately very interesting or could be as a one indeed!

 

At Silverstone in 1992-1993 they used a Ford Escort RS Cosworth as a Safety Car with Mark Goddard behind the wheel and for the following thing I'm not so sure, but...

 

In the years of 1994-1996 they used Renault Alpine A610 Turbo Special for the 1994 race and Renault Clio Maxi or Renault Safrane BiTurbo Baccara for the years of 1995-1996, but who was the Safety Car Driver during the British Grand Prix those years?

 

I have heard that sadly late Steve Bell may have been the driver at least some of those (If not all of them?) occasions and from the 1997 British Grand Prix onwards, Safety Car Driver were Oliver Gavin.



#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 20:06

IIRC what was then known as a 'Pace Car' was introduced in the U.K. for the Indy car races at Silverstone and Brands in 1978

In both 1938 and 1939 the JCC International Trophy at Brooklands employed a rolling start, the cars being driven by John Cobb. In 1938 he drove Jack Barclay's 4½ litre Bentley drophead coupé, with the starting signal being given by John Morgan, Secretary of the JCC. The following year he was at the wheel of his newly-acquired V12 Lagonda, with George Eyston waving the flag.



#7 Michael Ferner

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:37

I'm sorry to see this potentially interesting discussion stalled - maybe it needs a "paced start"?  ;)

FWIW, a "Pace Car" is not the same as a "Safety Car"! When International Formula 3 (or, to be more precise, Formula III) was introduced in 1950, "flying" (i.e. paced) starts were specified, which were for some time refered to as "F 3/III (style) starts" as a consequence. Many reports and pictures exist, but once the novelty wore off those ceased to appear, and it's not entirely clear when that practice stopped. It would be interesting to find out.

Pace Cars in general never interfered with races once they were underway, hence the Safety Car. It's true that after that trial run in 1973, it was virtually extinct - many thanks to Steve for that very plausable explanation. However, when did it actually reappear? It was about the time I lost interest in the sport, so my memory is a bit fuzzy about it - can someone help?

#8 Charlieman

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:46

Monaco had used the Countach and I recall a Renault 5 Turbo 2, which was crashed. 

Crikey -- the Countach sounds like something suggested by a teenage boy. I have huge respect for anyone who got around the Monaco circuit at any speed in one of those. And almost as much respect for the driver of a Renault 5 Turbo 2.

 

Assuming an incident lasts for 5 laps or 12 miles, what average speed must a safety car maintain for a 3 litre F1 car to keep cool? Perhaps somebody who has been involved in running demonstrations on public roads has thoughts?



#9 bartez1000

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 22:43

I've checked archives of Motorsport magazine. 
Worth noting that before 1993 term "safety car" was not used when mentioning safety car in modern meaning.
 
Introduction of safety car:
It's interesting that that procedure was not applicable to Nurburgring !
 
Letter about pace car:
 
1978 spa 24h pace car was used
"Unlike after the Craft accident the contestants were not asked to line up behind the pace car, the race carrying on unabated as the haze of smoke drifted away. "
 
USAC Brands hatch - Special Capri used as pace car 
"Above, Mike Wilds in the special Capri pace car leads Al Unser, Ongais, Johncock and Sneva towards the rolling start"
 
Pace car regulations were to be used in 1978 USAC races in UK
"Full USAC regulations will apply, including pace car rolling starts, refuelling and the yellow-flag slowdown procedure."
 
1983 Brands Hatch 1000 used safety car
"By this time the track was flooding at Graham Hill bend (nee Bottom Bend) and the clerk of the course sent out the pace car for five laps to slow the competitors down. This reduced Warwick's advantage, but resulted in lckx being lapped as the pace car joined the circuit in front of him"
 
 
1984 RAC Turist trophy used pace car
"On the track there were spins galore and the wonder is that more cars were not writ ten off. Out came the pace car ahead of Thackwell, who had taken over from Weaver, in the storm, but Stack's timely pit stop meant that ()nester was out in front with a 90 second lead. Although the rain quickly stopped, the track was awash and the field splashed around for half a dozen laps. When the pace car peeled off, Quester led from Brancatelli with Walkinshaw a long was back"
 
1984 Fuji 1000kms used pace car
"The Alba was written off, Bellof continued at full speed until the pace car came out, and Mass was seen overtaking a slower car while the yellow flags were out"
 
It seems that since 1985 pace car was used in WSC
 
Le mans 1985 pace car
" The Canon team had 30-litres remaining, as did Bell and Stuck who completed 366 laps. Had the pace car not gone out for 25 minutes on Saturday evening, when Jean-Claude Andruet crashed a WM-Peugeot mightily on the Mulsanne straight (another tyre deflation was the cause) even more records might have been broken."
 
1986 Tourist trophy Silverstone pace car
"Then Quester and Rossi collided at Club (the early stages were a panel beater's dream) and the incident left Rossi stranded on the racing line so the pace car was called out while the car was removed.
Several laps behind the pace car closed the field up and allowed the turbo cars just a little extra fuel to play with before the mid-race pit stop."
 
1988 Bathurst 1000kms used pace car
"However, it all started to fall apart as the 100-lap mark was clocked up, the pace-car being called into operation for the second time in the race to clear a damaged car off the track"
 
1992 Mosley wants F1 to have pace cars
"May 2: Max Mosley announces that FISA is considering the introduction of a pace car to F1 events."
 
1992 Pace car possibly used in F2
"Oct 11: A misunderstanding over pace car regulations costs Yvan Muller victory in the British F2 finale at Donington Park. Series debutant Massimo Monti wins."
 
Competition pace cars in 1993
" Throw in the frankly ludicrous suggestion of a non-safety pace car to prevent any race leader building more than a 12s cushion and you can quite easily be forgiven for believing that the highest echelon of the sport has gone completely loopy."
"Nevertheless, Ecclestone is smart enough to appreciate that IndyCar racing, set to be televised via satellite in the UK this year, is going to pose a major threat now that Mansell has switched sides. The desperation is evident in the laughable idea of the non-safety pace car."
 
"Motor racing's governing body has come up with some pitiful ideas in recent weeks, most notably the suggestion that a pace car should be used to tighten up F1 fields whenever a Grand Prix leader opened up an advantage of 12 seconds."
 
"21: Benetton's Flavio Briatore is in combative mood. The Italian is pushing for changes to F1's existing Concorde Agreement, and also seeks unanimous approval for the introduction of a 'non-safety' pace car, an artificial — and somewhat ridiculous — means of closing up a Grand Prix should the leader eke out an advantage of 12 seconds."
 
"Shortly after a time when FISA was seriously suggesting a system wherein a non-safety pace car would be deployed if and whenever a leader amassed a cushion greater than 12s - supposedly to 'spice up' F1- it is not difficult to envisage a final odd quirk before the nonsense subsides and the real racing mercifully begins again."
 
1994 Japan GP - metion of  'Official car', other that safety car. Any idea what was it?
 
"As the wrecked cars were cleaned away the race continued, with the safety car and then an official car deployed to slow things down. The former did not immediately pick up on the leaders because they had gone by before the incidents began, but Schumacher in particular showed commendable common-sense by obeying the yellow flags and his radio messages and resisting any temptation to push too hard in his chase after the safety car. Since Suzuka has such a long lap, the official car also went out to hold the field, and as the rain gradually began to ease team managers went up to the stewards to voice their opinions as to whether the event should be stopped. Eddie Jordan was among the most vocal, as is his desire, expressing his driver's views that the race should be stopped immediately."
 
 
1993 British Gp - Ford Escort RS Safety was used


#10 bartez1000

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 15:20

I've found photo of the Silversone Alpines. 

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From https://www.renaulta...opic.php?t=8807


Edited by bartez1000, 19 October 2018 - 15:21.


#11 Claudio Navonne

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 11:36

img908.jpg

It's not a safety car, it's a pace car. It's not Europe, it's South America, Argentina, it's not F1, it's Sport Prototypes, but it's driven by Juan Manuel Fangio at the Buenos Aires racetrack in 1971. Completely off topic, moderators if you want to delete it.