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W Series 2019


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#451 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 20:40

Well, that's good.  I don't want to see them particularly, but fair enough, if you tell me that they exist, I believe you.  The question is how prevalent is it for male drivers compared to female drivers?

 

Ah come, don't move the goal posts. The thing is, a percentage of both sexes does it. Not always for the same reasons, buit what does it matter. It's harmless, and it won't improve or hurt their racing skills. On your way up it might help to be good looking, but that too goes for men and women, it's just the way the world turns.

 

Even going to extremes, I wouldn't mind the first porn star of any gender to win a Grand Prix, in fact that could be pretty funny. :D



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#452 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 20:48

Left without further comment:

 

BZS5ih6CYAEXuTF.jpg



#453 as65p

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 20:59

Left without further comment:

 

Shame on me, but that's not enough. I can only guess, is she porn and won a race? Googling "racing porn star" only brought up this  :p 



#454 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 21:08

Shame on me, but that's not enough. I can only guess, is she porn and won a race? Googling "racing porn star" only brought up this  :p

 

As I said, no further comment. It's just someone who came* to mind in an F1 environment.

 

That's a fascinating article though. He's actually doing some racing.

 

*No pun intended.



#455 BRG

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 22:39

Ah come, don't move the goal posts. The thing is, a percentage of both sexes does it. Not always for the same reasons, buit what does it matter. It's harmless, and it won't improve or hurt the0% of one and 5 ir racing skills. On your way up it might help to be good looking, but that too goes for men and women, it's just the way the world turns.

 

Even going to extremes, I wouldn't mind the first porn star of any gender to win a Grand Prix, in fact that could be pretty funny. :D

I haven't touched the goal posts.  You proved a point that I had made (which was that male driver glamour photos also exist) and I accepted your word on that although you seem curiously reticent about substantiating it.  I have therefore moved on to wonder what the percentages might be.  If 70% of one and only 5% of the other did it, what does that say?  The important point is that women have a steep uphill journey to get taken seriously in the sport and I can't see that it is helped by posing for sexy pictures.  That just makes a lot of people - including ones like sponsors etc - discount the woman.  That may be wrong, I agree, but it is what happens.

 

Take Danica for example....


Edited by BRG, 20 March 2019 - 22:41.


#456 E1pix

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 05:36

No Danica fan here.

Fact is, she made a career of it. I don't agree with some of the methods, but she did.

Women can't help it if guys pay less attention otherwise. That's on us.

#457 as65p

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 07:56

Women can't help it if guys pay less attention otherwise. That's on us.

 

And that too goes both ways. In the two longterm relationships I had, both women didn't care for racing, both were a few times kind of forced to watch with me, both picked their favourite by looks. My son too, when first introduced at around 8 years of age, divided them in "looks cool" / "doesn't look cool".

 

And I definitely recall picking my first favourite team as a kid (Lotus) purely by how the cars looked.

 

It's just the way it is. And IMO no better or worse than picking favourites by nationality or skin color. Of course one hopes with time and knowledge comes better founded judgement...  ;)



#458 Eff1

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 09:33

Unfortunately, this picture rather sums up the problem of women in a 'men's' sport.  Would you ever get a picture of say, Valterri Bottas, or Max Verstappen posing like this?  Someone will now produce such a shot, I fear, but you get my point, I hope. 

 

Female drivers will never be given their proper degree of respect if some of them persist in posing like this.  Now, she is certainly a very attractive lady, don't get me wrong, and it is a lovely picture but to my mind it just sends out the message "Hello, boys, look at me!!!", not "Watch out boys, I am quicker than you"

 

Don't you think you are overanalysing it? I mean it's just a promo photo shoot right?

Look at the F1 guys - they've had to pose to get these corny "macho" like airbrushed intro's put together by Liberty media when introducing the grid.

In the end  - how successful these drivers are and how seriously they will be taken will be solely determined by what they deliver on the track. Period. It has always been like that, and it always will be like that. The rest is just noise.



#459 sgtkate

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 09:45

horner_arden.jpg

MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!



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#460 statman

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:04

Why not?  There are also handsome male racers who are good at what they do...

 

Two thumbs up.

 

Isn't Patrick Dempsey also a (Le Mans) racing driver these days? My female friends seem to have the hots for him  :p



#461 Taxi

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:18

In the end all sportsmen and sportswomen do photos for self/corporative  promotion. I don't see anything wrong with a woman having a photo like that. It's not because she drives fast that she can't show her other side, may it be sensual, candid beautiful, agressive, curious, funny, whatever. Being a racing driver it's just a part of her life. So if she is not obliged to do it there is no problem in any of that. It's called liberty. There are plenty of examples in the male world in wich sportsmen do modeling photos lauding their phisical atributes/male atittude [David Beckham, CR7, even "our" Lewis Hamitlon] 

 

So lets not get into prejudice: If she is fast the world will take her seriously no matter what she looks like. I know I will. 



#462 sgtkate

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:29

In the end all sportsmen and sportswomen do photos for self/corporative  promotion. I don't see anything wrong with a woman having a photo like that. It's not because she drives fast that she can't show her other side, may it be sensual, candid beautiful, agressive, curious, funny, whatever. Being a racing driver it's just a part of her life. So if she is not obliged to do it there is no problem in any of that. It's called liberty. There are plenty of examples in the male world in wich sportsmen do modeling photos lauding their phisical atributes/male atittude [David Beckham, CR7, even "our" Lewis Hamitlon] 

 

So lets not get into prejudice: If she is fast the world will take her seriously no matter what she looks like. I know I will. 

I agree in sentiment, and when things do get to an equal place then absolutely. You want to strip off for publicity? Go for it...but at the moment, without men and women being equal I think everyone needs to be a bit more careful about how things come across. The last thing I'd want from the W Series is to appear to turn into a series full of glamour models more than women who can properly drive. 

 

Your last sentence shows who you are in a hugely positive way, but I think it's naive to think everyone feels the same way. On this thread alone there are already some men saying they are more likely to watch because the women are good looking and sadly I think that says a lot about the general motorsport audience. Sure, we'd all like to look at people we find attractive I guess rather than those who we don't, but I don't understand how that can even be a factor in motorsport when for 95% of the coverage the driver is covered head to toe! I can see it having an impact maybe on what driver someone follows, but for it to actually impact whether someone would watch the event or not is baffling to me...



#463 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:49

I don't like this W Series idea. There should be no sex based separation in motorsport. Heck! there are female fighter pilots in fighter jets pulling off 9G manoeuvers! 

 

Women in motorsport are not supported enough to get to the high level.



#464 sgtkate

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 11:48

I don't like this W Series idea. There should be no sex based separation in motorsport. Heck! there are female fighter pilots in fighter jets pulling off 9G manoeuvers! 

 

Women in motorsport are not supported enough to get to the high level.

I get the impression most people feel that way, I certainly do. I accept the W Series in terms of helping promote motorsport as a viable career/hobby to younger girls to increase the talent pool but I'd much rather the money was being spent on sponsoring/supporting more girls in the very junior karting series instead. Only time will tell if it has the impact it hopes...



#465 Taxi

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 11:50

I agree in sentiment, and when things do get to an equal place then absolutely. You want to strip off for publicity? Go for it...but at the moment, without men and women being equal I think everyone needs to be a bit more careful about how things come across. The last thing I'd want from the W Series is to appear to turn into a series full of glamour models more than women who can properly drive. 

 

Your last sentence shows who you are in a hugely positive way, but I think it's naive to think everyone feels the same way. On this thread alone there are already some men saying they are more likely to watch because the women are good looking and sadly I think that says a lot about the general motorsport audience. Sure, we'd all like to look at people we find attractive I guess rather than those who we don't, but I don't understand how that can even be a factor in motorsport when for 95% of the coverage the driver is covered head to toe! I can see it having an impact maybe on what driver someone follows, but for it to actually impact whether someone would watch the event or not is baffling to me...

 

I'm included. I sure like to see beautiful women. But... that's a reason for ...10 minutes, then if they are bad at what they do that reason will fade and we will concentrate in the racing qualities and we will admire the best ones no matter what. Anna Kournikova sure was great but it caused big sensation for that for about a year or so. Then people just went for Hingis, Williams sisters, Henin, Graff again. Why? Because the true tennis fans admire great players. Kournikova faded really fast and got into other things. It's normal for human beings to be atracted for the phisical characteristics first. It's evolutive and natural. But after that first impact all that matters it's the qualities: human or professional. 

 

It's a bit the same with Hamilton. In 2007 people were all about "oh he's black! the first black, it's diferent, media attention,  bla bla bla" Then, he started  to show his quality and sudently formula 1 fans don't care if he's black, white, tall, short. He's Lewis Hamilton the great champion. 



#466 TheJammin

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:27

The worst thing about the W Series is that it's led to a discussion which has prompted THAT picture of Horner to resurface. I'd almost forgotten that existed. Back to square one now.



#467 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 13:54

Anyway I think Beitske Visser will win all 6 races.  



#468 Fastcake

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 14:08

I’d say there is a clear difference between drivers doing fashion and promotional photoshoots and the more adult, sexualised ones. All sportspeople will do the former at one time or another, and while they may undoubtedly look attractive in them, it’s not meant as pure sex appeal. The latter type, which you can tell by the way they’re shot, what they’re wearing, where the camera is drawing your eye to, is something that sportswomen tend to do more than the men.

I do agree with sgtkate that with women under such observation in motorsport, it may be best if the drivers avoided the sexy photos for the time being. I wouldn’t want to try and stop it, and I’m sure some women actively want to do it (in contrast to some dressing up in tight leathers because someone said it may help them). But it may be a good idea to point out the bikini shots on cars may actually do more harm to women in motorsport than help their own careers.

#469 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 15:18

I’d say there is a clear difference between drivers doing fashion and promotional photoshoots and the more adult, sexualised ones. All sportspeople will do the former at one time or another, and while they may undoubtedly look attractive in them, it’s not meant as pure sex appeal. The latter type, which you can tell by the way they’re shot, what they’re wearing, where the camera is drawing your eye to, is something that sportswomen tend to do more than the men.

I do agree with sgtkate that with women under such observation in motorsport, it may be best if the drivers avoided the sexy photos for the time being. I wouldn’t want to try and stop it, and I’m sure some women actively want to do it (in contrast to some dressing up in tight leathers because someone said it may help them). But it may be a good idea to point out the bikini shots on cars may actually do more harm to women in motorsport than help their own careers.

 

535CE7A5-4D6F-4DA0-9F5B-CAEA6C473203.jpe



#470 bibliophagos

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 15:47

Ok.... I see where this thread is going...



#471 ensign14

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 15:48

Thank God there were no such campaigns in the era of Horace Gould.



#472 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 16:00

I don't like this W Series idea. There should be no sex based separation in motorsport. Heck! there are female fighter pilots in fighter jets pulling off 9G manoeuvers! 

 

Women in motorsport are not supported enough to get to the high level.

So far, that may be the case. But what if Lance Stroll had been Lancia Stroll? The chance of her actually pursuing racing would have been smaller, though. The crux may be that too few girls from big money care for racing to get some good representation of their sex there. 

There are some girls with the genes and the connections to pull it off, but they again are held back by statistics. From the footage I've seen of rare karting outings by Victoria Verstappen, she totally has the genes, looked extremely natural in a very serious kart after many years not driving. From what I understand, she just lacks the desire. Her gene set is the very strongest ever put together to do the job neurologically, just nature or circumstances didn't make her want it enough. Had she been the first born, it could well have been totally differently. We might never have cared about her goofy kid brother. Jos was clear that if she wanted to really go for it, he'd be there for her to make it possible, get the same racing ed he gave Max. Max never needed to be pushed. It's not just big money, Jos wasn't that wealthy, but connections and deep knowledge do make a huge difference. Some make it despite coming from wealth or fame.

And I just wanted to add that since we've had more than suggestive pictures from Hamilton (I have tried to unsee, I really have), we will not be able to complain about edgy pictures from female racers unless we mention him in the same sentence. It's not just a thing women do to get attention for their racing. it's a thing guys do when they get all the attention they could wish for but are happy to send it over another angle a bit.


Edited by ElectricBoogie, 21 March 2019 - 22:50.


#473 E1pix

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 19:42

FIA's "Women in Motorsport" pub, with a Sabré Cook article six clicks in:
https://www.fia.com/...-motor-sport-16

#474 SonGoku

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 19:47

So far, that may be the case. But what if Lance Stroll has been Lancia Stroll? The chance of her actually pursuing racing would have been smaller, though. The crux may be that too few girls from big money care for racing to get some good representation of their sex there. 

There are some girls with the genes and the connections to pull it off, but they again are held back by statistics. From the footage I've seen of rare karting outings by Victoria Verstappen, she totally has the genes, looked extremely natural in a very serious kart after many years not driving. From what I understand, she just lacks the desire. Her gene set is the very strongest ever put together to do the job neurologically, just nature or circumstances didn't make her want it enough. Had she been the first born, it could well have been totally differently. We might never have cared about her goofy kid brother. Jos was clear that if she wanted to really go for it, he'd be there for her to make it possible, get the same racing ed he gave Max. Max never needed to be pushed. It's not just big money, Jos wasn't that wealthy, but connections and deep knowledge do make a huge difference. Some make it despite coming from wealth or fame.

And I just wanted to add that since we've had more than suggestive pictures from Hamilton (I have tried to unsee, I really have), we will not be able to complain about edgy pictures from female racers unless we mention him in the same sentence. It's not just a thing women do to get attention for their racing. it's a thing guys do when they get all the attention they could wish for but are happy to send it over another angle a bit.

 

What a shame, because I think you can argue she was probably in the best positon a girl can wish for to make it into F1. Dad with the right connections who is able to give her the material/advise to really grow just like he did with Max and as you said she probably had the talent to do it....


Edited by SonGoku, 21 March 2019 - 19:47.


#475 sgtkate

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 20:08

What a shame, because I think you can argue she was probably in the best positon a girl can wish for to make it into F1. Dad with the right connections who is able to give her the material/advise to really grow just like he did with Max and as you said she probably had the talent to do it....

Totally. Can you imagine the girls it would inspire if we have a genuinely competitive female driver in F1? Come on F1 legends of bygone days...bring your daughters up right (joke in case it's lost in translation) and we won't need the W Series! ;)



#476 E1pix

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 21:03

I don't like this W Series idea. There should be no sex based separation in motorsport. Heck! there are female fighter pilots in fighter jets pulling off 9G manoeuvers! 
 
Women in motorsport are not supported enough to get to the high level.

The truth in your last sentence makes me wonder why you don't like the Series.

#477 E1pix

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 00:07

I'm included. I sure like to see beautiful women. But... that's a reason for ...10 minutes, then if they are bad at what they do that reason will fade and we will concentrate in the racing qualities and we will admire the best ones no matter what. Anna Kournikova sure was great but it caused big sensation for that for about a year or so. Then people just went for Hingis, Williams sisters, Henin, Graff again. Why? Because the true tennis fans admire great players. Kournikova faded really fast and got into other things. It's normal for human beings to be atracted for the phisical characteristics first. It's evolutive and natural. But after that first impact all that matters it's the qualities: human or professional.

It's a bit the same with Hamilton. In 2007 people were all about "oh he's black! the first black, it's diferent, media attention, bla bla bla" Then, he started to show his quality and sudently formula 1 fans don't care if he's black, white, tall, short. He's Lewis Hamilton the great champion.

Ten Thumbs Up on this post.

Edit: Great discussion, people. And a note for your consideration...

Is it possible we think women show more flaunt than men because we aren't exactly looking at a mag that might show Lewis in his scanties?

Only me and the Universe knows I never saw that photo, nor the Horner Horror. ;-)

Edited by E1pix, 22 March 2019 - 00:16.


#478 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 01:00

 

 

Is it possible we think women show more flaunt than men because we aren't exactly looking at a mag that might show Lewis in his scanties? 

 

There are some more suggestive photos of Sutil in his tight undies  :drunk:



#479 E1pix

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 03:25

My word, do male drivers even bother dressing anymore?

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#480 Stephane

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:33

So, who passed the last selection .



#481 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 07:54

I think we'll know by Sunday or Monday who made it to the final selection. Yesterday, it looks like the seat fittings were done, maybe the actual racing starts today.

 

https://twitter.com/...829593744691200



#482 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 21:00

from wseries.com:  "the final successful drivers will be announced on March 28"



#483 ArcticRacing

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 21:03

It seems today was more technical than about racing : https://twitter.com/...060624577937409



#484 paulb

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 21:19

It seems today was more technical than about racing : https://twitter.com/...060624577937409

Would be great if they had live timing for the track sessions.



#485 Marklar

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 22:05

One day I will not come across that Horner pic when clicking a thread about womans in motorsports. One day.

#486 jonpollak

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 02:03

Would be great if they had live timing for the track sessions.


W series had a radio panel discussion on 5live last night.
Katherine Legge said all the info is kept under wraps by the series. Hmmm
Jp

#487 ArcticRacing

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 08:22

Katherine Legge said all the info is kept under wraps by the series. Hmmm

In Austria, there was David Coultard, but also his production company "Whisper Films", which was apparently omnipresent in order to produce a series/documentary. Maybe they're also in Spain and that one day we will have more information thanks to this?



#488 statman

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 14:19

ghn61xu6bun21.jpg?width=432&auto=webp&s=



#489 RA2

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 15:06

So does the series take all the sponsorship that driver brings to the car like Marlboro does with Ferrari?

#490 FLB

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 15:13

horner_arden.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen...

 

 

Christian Horny



#491 E1pix

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 16:09

So does the series take all the sponsorship that driver brings to the car like Marlboro does with Ferrari?


According to the website, there will be no sponsors on the cars, just the driver's name and their national flag.

#492 ensign14

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 16:11

STOP ****ing QUOTING THAT PICTURE



#493 Izzyeviel

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 17:15

horner_arden.jpg

 

 

STOP ****ing QUOTING THAT PICTURE

 

This one?



#494 Silberpfeil

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 20:41

horner_arden.jpg

He really should have said “Spice Girls” when it came to his taste in music.

In actual on-topic conversation, I wonder whether the W-Series will be more prominently featured on the DTM support bill now that the Formula European Masters is no more. In terms of cars and potential lap times, it’s now the only one of its kind there, the rest is German F4 and various touring car & Porsche series IIRC.

Edited by Silberpfeil, 23 March 2019 - 20:41.


#495 tghik

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 22:32

I come here to read about fine women drivers and see picture after picture of naked Horner. lol



#496 E1pix

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 05:02

W Series announces the Final 18 (and two alternates) on Thursday, March 28.

#497 mdaclarke

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 08:13

Nobody wants a competitive women F1 driver more than F1.  The sponsorship and media coverage would be immense.  Look at the F3 winner last year.  It was all over the BBC.  

 

I personally believe that if there was female F1 driver anywhere close to F1 standard then she would be in F1 already.  


Edited by mdaclarke, 24 March 2019 - 08:14.


#498 NotAPineapple

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 09:29

Nobody wants a competitive women F1 driver more than F1. The sponsorship and media coverage would be immense. Look at the F3 winner last year. It was all over the BBC.

I personally believe that if there was female F1 driver anywhere close to F1 standard then she would be in F1 already.


What's with the OT rant? We were discussing Christian Horner?

#499 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 09:55

Nobody wants a competitive women F1 driver more than F1.  The sponsorship and media coverage would be immense.  Look at the F3 winner last year.  It was all over the BBC.  
 
I personally believe that if there was female F1 driver anywhere close to F1 standard then she would be in F1 already.


That’s why this series exists, to find drivers who are at potentially F1 standard. At the moment, there aren’t the opportunies for girls to get near F1. It’s not like that’s how it works for boys. Unless your dad is a former F1 driver, no boy gets fast tracked to F1 on the basis of appearing at F1 standard when they start racing. It’s years of hard work required to prove yourself and it’s not just the F1 team’s that need to be impressed.

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#500 restless

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:06

Left without further comment:

 

BZS5ih6CYAEXuTF.jpg

So, can someone explain whats up with that photo ?