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W Series 2019


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#501 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:09

So, can someone explain whats up with that photo ?


If you know, you know. If you don’t, you shouldn’t lose any sleep over what is really just an off hand comment on the previous post.

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#502 ArcticRacing

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 20:52

Nobody wants a competitive women F1 driver more than F1.  The sponsorship and media coverage would be immense.  Look at the F3 winner last year.  It was all over the BBC.  

 

I personally believe that if there was female F1 driver anywhere close to F1 standard then she would be in F1 already.  

 

Well, Simona De Silvestro was really good in Indycar and close to Sauber F1. But she lost her sponsor and she wasn't able anymore to find a seat in single seaters...
 



#503 Kalmake

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 23:21

If she was really good she would have found a sponsor to stay in Indy.

 

She was never near a F1 licence.



#504 E1pix

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 01:38

If she was really good she would have found a sponsor to stay in Indy.


There's gotta be a thousand "failed" Indycar drivers before her that would disagree.

#505 scolbourne

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 03:56

If the argument is used that women are not as strong as men. Would not a better path to follow be to design the cars (by rules) so that this is not an issue .ie have power steering and power brakes.

I don't like having separate series for women as I feel this is rather an insult to women, saying they are not as good as men.

How do women perform in simulation racing, where everything should be equal between the sex's at least strength wise ?

We could always have a rule in F1 for instance that a team with two cars , must have a male and a female driver. This would quickly give an incentive for women to enter the sport if that was there inclination.



#506 secessionman

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:12

I've seen several people suggest Jamie Chadwick is going to win this series comfortably.

 

It certainly didn't need this series to discover Jamie, she was already on the scene, getting publicity for her achievements, and yet no rumours of F1 involvement/tests/programmes/sponsorship whatsoever.

 

What this series really needs is to discover someone who wouldn't otherwise have been discovered. Else what was the point?



#507 Kalmake

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:16

There's gotta be a thousand "failed" Indycar drivers before her that would disagree.

Maybe they should sponsor her then.



#508 phrank

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:29

Well, Simona De Silvestro was really good in Indycar and close to Sauber F1. But she lost her sponsor and she wasn't able anymore to find a seat in single seaters...
 

Define 'really good'..



#509 Rinehart

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:50

I've seen several people suggest Jamie Chadwick is going to win this series comfortably.

 

It certainly didn't need this series to discover Jamie, she was already on the scene, getting publicity for her achievements, and yet no rumours of F1 involvement/tests/programmes/sponsorship whatsoever.

 

What this series really needs is to discover someone who wouldn't otherwise have been discovered. Else what was the point?

Good point, however the prize fund for this championship is £500k and winning it would probably come with some increased future sponsorship attraction, could be enough to make the difference to fund the next step in her career. 



#510 ArcticRacing

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:12

Define 'really good'..

On street circuits, she was able to reach the podium, even in front of champions.  For example, she started on the front row the 2013 St. Petersburg GP, just behind Power. Dannica was better on ovals, but De Silvestro was really better with others circuits nearest to F1's.

 

She was never near a F1 licence.

Well, she was securing an F1 superlicence : https://www.autospor...on-de-silvestro

 

 

Katherine Legge said all the info is kept under wraps by the series.

I've just seen an interesting tweet : Whisper Films is indeed in Spain with W Series. So we may have more information in a kind of documentary : https://twitter.com/...814712575934464



#511 phrank

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:10

On street circuits, she was able to reach the podium, even in front of champions.  For example, she started on the front row the 2013 St. Petersburg GP, just behind Power. Dannica was better on ovals, but De Silvestro was really better with others circuits nearest to F1's.

 

That's decent, not really good



#512 messy

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:42

De Silvestro was very competitive on street circuits and raced with back of the field teams. I always thought she did well.



#513 Kalmake

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:50

Well, she was securing an F1 superlicence : https://www.autospor...on-de-silvestro

Oh yeah, I forgot this was before points system.



#514 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 11:23

Does anyone know if this series is a longterm one and will be run for the next few years or if this season will be the only one?

#515 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 12:45

Well, Simona De Silvestro was really good in Indycar and close to Sauber F1. But she lost her sponsor and she wasn't able anymore to find a seat in single seaters...
 

I may have the time line in a knot. Was this after Formula E or doesn't that count?

 

De Silvestro was very competitive on street circuits and raced with back of the field teams. I always thought she did well.

She got all the street circuits she could wish for in Formula E. No-one will say she was horrible but she wasn't exactly dominating her team mate Robin Frijns as I recall their time at Andretti. I'm Dutch but really wanted her to teach those F1 rejects how it's done. The car rarely seemed to be there for her but there's always a team mate to contend with and he's not exactly making Bird look slow most of the time.


Edited by ElectricBoogie, 25 March 2019 - 12:46.


#516 Kalmake

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 13:15

Does anyone know if this series is a longterm one and will be run for the next few years or if this season will be the only one?

Long term.



#517 7MGTEsup

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 16:22

Long term.

 

They hope....



#518 BRG

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 16:29

Long term.

So, two years then before they lose interest.



#519 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 16:38

Long term.

 

They hope....

 

So, two years then before they lose interest.

 

Having the organisation pay for the running costs of the cars simply isn't a sustainable business model for a racing series in the long term.



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#520 E1pix

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 19:06

If this catches on, sponsors will come.

I remain confused with detractors of this series. All sports have male and female versions, so until more women race, we truly do not know their capabilities against men.

This series gives unforeseen opportunities to a massive participation gap between the genders, and will bring in new female fans -- if not men -- and sponsors. If we care about the future sustainability of our sport, we should be all for it.

#521 BRG

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 19:18

All sports have male and female versions, so until more women race, we truly do not know their capabilities against men.

All sports?  Not motor sport - up to now, that is. And not some others either.

 

And how does segregating women show us their capabilites against men? :confused:   It is just patronising the poor little girlies by letting them race against each other where they won't be embarrassed by those nasty hairy men.



#522 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 19:20

I thought the idea was that it wouldn’t need to catch on, that it would last as long as it took for the girls to get the opportunities they need to compete with the boys.

#523 messy

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 21:08

I may have the time line in a knot. Was this after Formula E or doesn't that count?
 

She got all the street circuits she could wish for in Formula E. No-one will say she was horrible but she wasn't exactly dominating her team mate Robin Frijns as I recall their time at Andretti. I'm Dutch but really wanted her to teach those F1 rejects how it's done. The car rarely seemed to be there for her but there's always a team mate to contend with and he's not exactly making Bird look slow most of the time.


Wasn't great in FE but jumped back into an Indycar for a one-off with Andretti and came fourth IIRC. Some drivers are better suited to some series than others I guess. Always thought De Silvestro's calling was Indycar.

It's odd though, she's was good in Indycar and didn't get a break, then been pretty unconvincing in Australia yet was linked with all sorts of top seats (replacing Lowndes, even though it didn't happen).

#524 E1pix

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 22:04

All sports?  Not motor sport - up to now, that is. And not some others either.
 
And how does segregating women show us their capabilites against men? :confused:   It is just patronising the poor little girlies by letting them race against each other where they won't be embarrassed by those nasty hairy men.

Well, that's all a bit much...

Women racing are outnumbered by men, what, 50 to 1? Where's the equality you state as defending?

One obvious goal -- though still outnumbered by men many dozens to one -- is having more women in racing, in all areas. I'd venture a guess that for these 18 finalists, but one or two of them would otherwise have a shot at learning a F3 car like this. The immediate result is having more-experienced lady single-seat drivers by a huge factor.

I'm not so sure today's male drivers would be entirely comfortable in a team of only women. It has to be awkward if not limiting for lady drivers. We all succeed the most when in a comfortable environment.

Above all, I find gender limits to be so 1800s.

#525 as65p

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 23:57

Well, that's all a bit much...

Women racing are outnumbered by men, what, 50 to 1? Where's the equality you state as defending?

 

The number of people with different attributes (like their gender in this case) actually doing something doesn't tell much about equality. It's certainly true that for many decades women didn't have the same chances to enter racing as men, but I don't think that's the case now. There are a lot of obstacles for any person to pursue a racing career, the overwhelming one these days being money, not sex or race.I seriously believe that today, anyone who passes that all-important money hurdle has the same chances, regardless of sex. The disparity still existing is likely due to that being only recently so. IOW I think a girl starting to cart today has the exact same chances as a boy, presuming all other things necessary being equal between the two.

 

But that needs time to reflect in numbers, because men had something like an 80 year or so head-start.

 

Then again, even with perfectly equal chances it's possible we'll never have equality in numbers. Because it is possible (although probably very much a politically incorrect idea these days) that on average, men are better at racing than woman. On simpler to measure disciplines where the main factor is muscular strength that is obviously an indisputable fact. Racing is a bit more complex, but it could be similar. Which doesn't mean there won't be a woman becoming absolute best in their top racing category one day (*), just that the chances of it happening are very slim. Even with perfect equality in everything.

 

Maybe one could say Michelle Mouton already achieved that?



#526 E1pix

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:17

Well done.

If it becomes proven that women can't outdrive men on equal terms, then indeed the validity of this Series becomes indisputable.

If not, this is a huge step towards finding out.

#527 jonpollak

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 14:19

Why am I worried that the winners this week will be those with the most Instagram followers?

Jp

#528 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 14:27

Why am I worried that the winners this week will be those with the most Instagram followers?

Jp

 

Because it's probably true



#529 ArcticRacing

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 15:04

Why am I worried that the winners this week will be those with the most Instagram followers?

Jp

Some W Series' "top 50" are very popular on Instagram  :

Doreen Seidel
62,3k
Hanna Zellers
52,9k
Mira Erda
25,6k
Lyubov Ozeretskovskaya
25,3k
Marylin Niederhauser
18k
Toni Breidinger
13,5k
CHELSEA ANGELO
10,5k
 

But they're not in the top 28 :)



#530 jonpollak

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:02

Hoping you’re right Arctic...
Jp

#531 Stephane

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:08

Why am I worried that the winners this week will be those with the most Instagram followers?

Jp

 

Not sure, but those winners could see their number of followers rise quickly



#532 TheJammin

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:41

Now that's a name I want to hear the commentators rattle off during a mid-race battle... Ozeretskovskaya. Ozzy for short.



#533 Stephane

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:43

Sportswomen are often called by their first name. Lyubov it will be.



#534 TheJammin

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 16:44

Damn, makes sense in that case. Can you imagine Crofty trying to get the surname in during a race?



#535 BRG

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 17:37

If it becomes proven that women can't outdrive men on equal terms, then indeed the validity of this Series becomes indisputable.

If not, this is a huge step towards finding out.

And how does putting women in their own all-female series give us any proof whether they can or can't outdrive men on equal terms? :confused:  It will just show us which of them is the best woman driver.  There will still be people saying that she hasn't proved her worth because there were no men pn the grid.  So she will have got precisely no further forward.  This is exactly what happened with previous women-only series.

 

There has never really been any obstacle to a woman entering any sort of motor sport, even in the dim and distant days before women got the vote, other than the age-old one of money, which afflicts men as well..  Nobody put their hand up and said 'Sorry, my dear, but this is for men only.  You must go and drive in a women-only series' 

 

(Before anyone chimes in with some evidence to the contrary, there probably have been some isolated instances of that, but generally women were competing freely in motorsport from the earleist days - at Brooklands for instance, or in rallying)



#536 E1pix

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 17:55

Most series have been nearly all men all along.

This series gives more women a chance, by definition and design, to build skills and confidence to move on with. The more women that get a chance, the more we'll know if they are able to compete against men. If they cannot, then no harm in their competing against only women in a fair environment. Or is it a man's sport after all?

Perhaps you might speak with some lady drivers to get their side? This ain't rocket science, but rather simple math.

#537 NotAPineapple

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 18:15

And how does putting women in their own all-female series give us any proof whether they can or can't outdrive men on equal terms? :confused:  It will just show us which of them is the best woman driver.  There will still be people saying that she hasn't proved her worth because there were no men pn the grid.  So she will have got precisely no further forward.  This is exactly what happened with previous women-only series.

 

Geez use your imagination a bit. You need to think long term too.

 

The winner of this series could be considered the best female driver in the world. She will exit the series with single seater experience, a winners trophy, a lot of hype, a lot of likely subsequent backing and half a million GBP in prize money. If she leverages all this to enter F1, perhaps via F2 etc, and reaches say the top three we can say it's a good step towards the suggestion of equality of ability. If in subsequent years this keeps happening, i.e. multiple women exit the W-series as a winner and are able to be sucessful in F1 (i.e. top 5 and eventually a champion) then it will pretty much prove the point on equality of ability.

 

Conversely, if no W-series winner ever break into the top 5 in F1 over a sustained period, then it's likewise a pretty conclusive case for their being an inherent imbalance in ability.

 

I hope the series is successful and runs long term because I want to see the results of this experiement.



#538 BRG

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 18:45

Perhaps you might speak with some lady drivers to get their side? This ain't rocket science, but rather simple math.

If you refer back to the earlier pages of this very thread, you will find comments from several woman drivers saying exactly what I am saying.

 

Geez use your imagination a bit. You need to think long term too.

 

The winner of this series could be considered the best female driver in the world.

 

 

Yyyeeesss....exactly.  As I said, the best woman driver, not the best driver full stop.

 

The drivers most likely to win this series already have single seater experience.  Chadwick has raced in F3 and is a British GT champion in her own right - won against male opposition.  But that hasn't really helped her progress, so why should W Series help?  Yes, the cash is nice but frankly £500k won''t go very far at the high levels of the sport.  If those behind this schemehad pooled ALL the cash that they are putting into it and picked out one candidate and backed her strongly, then that would be a different matter.  As it is, this smacks of virtue signalling - look at us #MeToo.


Edited by BRG, 26 March 2019 - 18:46.


#539 Nonesuch

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:14

Conversely, if no W-series winner ever break into the top 5 in F1 over a sustained period, then it's likewise a pretty conclusive case for their being an inherent imbalance in ability.

 

That sustained period had better be very long, because otherwise that conclusion would be tenuous at best, or probably just impossible to draw.

 

Even after all this time there are barely over a 300 drivers who've raced in F1 for more than 10 races. That covers the entire spectrum from Michael Schumacher and Jim Clark to Alex Yoong and Giedo van der Garde.

 

That's a very small sample for almost 70 years of racing in what us purported to be a world championship (one that has never had even a single Chinese driver).

 

Even if you get 20 women from this series into F1, they might end up being as fast as Jarno Trulli, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer. Competent, occasionally strong, but never an agenda-setting presence -  or "top five", if you will.

 

Yet nobody said Italians born after 1970 suffer an inherent imbalance in ability either. These couple of guys just not as good as some others. It happens.

 


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#540 jonpollak

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:15

Sportswomen are often called by their first name. Lyubov it will be.

YA lyublyu Lyubov

Jp



#541 efuloni

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:17

The series is not just about finding a woman that could compete in F1, Indy and all. Its about giving them a chance. In nowadays motorsport is pretty damn hard for a woman to find a seat.

Most girls have no support from home, friends and comunity to race. They are told since ever that this is a 'boy's thing'. Many give it up or lose interest when they are just kids, since there's no role model for them and they see no oportunity. Only a few, with money and reeeaaal big willpower get close to a seat.

 

Now, the hope is that with the W Series they can see a chance, a door, an oportunity. The math is very simple: we find a good male driver after looking in hundreds of thousands of male kids who thy to pursuit this carreer. On the other hand, we have a handful of female drivers out there. Of course it is harder to find real talent. We are losing good women drivers who dont even try.

 

The series is a really good thing, the media and the money given to the first places will mean something for them. As soon as we have more female drivers out there, we will find better female drivers.



#542 NotAPineapple

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:25

I

 

 

That sustained period had better be very long, because otherwise that conclusion would be tenuous at best, or probably just impossible to draw.

 

Even after all this time there are barely over a 300 drivers who've raced in F1 for more than 10 races. That covers the entire spectrum from Michael Schumacher and Jim Clark to Alex Yoong and Giedo van der Garde.

 

That's a very small sample for almost 70 years of racing in what us purported to be a world championship (one that has never had even a single Chinese driver).

 

Even if you get 20 women from this series into F1, they might end up being as fast as Jarno Trulli, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer. Competent, occasionally strong, but never an agenda-setting presence -  or "top five", if you will.

 

Yet nobody said Italians born after 1970 suffer an inherent imbalance in ability either. These couple of guys just not as good as some others. It happens.

 

 

 

I think 5 years is a fair amount of time. Don't forget in the same period there are also many other women trying to progress through the traditional series like F4, F3, F2 & F1. If in this time period the percentage of women champions isn't increasing towards the level of their participation I think that would be enough data to make a conclusion.

 

With all the regional series in the lower categories, 5 years of data will give you 40-50 driver champions which is a decent chunk of data. If female participation increases to say 30% then 30% of champions should be female if there is supposed to be zero performance imbalance. That's 15 from the 50 driver champions.



#543 E1pix

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:44

The series is not just about finding a woman that could compete in F1, Indy and all. Its about giving them a chance. In nowadays motorsport is pretty damn hard for a woman to find a seat.
Most girls have no support from home, friends and comunity to race. They are told since ever that this is a 'boy's thing'. Many give it up or lose interest when they are just kids, since there's no role model for them and they see no oportunity. Only a few, with money and reeeaaal big willpower get close to a seat.
 
Now, the hope is that with the W Series they can see a chance, a door, an oportunity. The math is very simple: we find a good male driver after looking in hundreds of thousands of male kids who thy to pursuit this carreer. On the other hand, we have a handful of female drivers out there. Of course it is harder to find real talent. We are losing good women drivers who dont even try.
 
The series is a really good thing, the media and the money given to the first places will mean something for them. As soon as we have more female drivers out there, we will find better female drivers.

This.

Pretty simple, really.

#544 E1pix

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 19:48

If you refer back to the earlier pages of this very thread, you will find comments from several woman drivers saying exactly what I am saying.

I was suggesting that You, personally, speak to some lady drivers to get their take -- not quote a vastly minority opinion from the very few that oppose the Series. Detractors can always be found, I find positive thought to be better.

Perhaps you don't realize how pro-male your comments appear. Can you not see the massive opportunity to both expand the fan base, and add a large number of new drivers to racing? Or are you happy watching our sport fading away, as it's been doing since we were kids? Half the population is female, the growth potential for racing here is clear as a bell.

All my female friends who love racing love this concept, even piquing interest in some who've never seen a race. Now, they might. Those opinions matter to me, as one whose hopes are for racing to thrive again on all levels.

#545 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 20:21

I was suggesting that You, personally, speak to some lady drivers to get their take -- not quote a vastly minority opinion from the very few that oppose the Series. Detractors can always be found, I find positive thought to be better.

Perhaps you don't realize how pro-male your comments appear. Can you not see the massive opportunity to both expand the fan base, and add a large number of new drivers to racing? Or are you happy watching our sport fading away, as it's been doing since we were kids? Half the population is female, the growth potential for racing here is clear as a bell.

All my female friends who love racing love this concept, even piquing interest in some who've never seen a race. Now, they might. Those opinions matter to me, as one whose hopes are for racing to thrive again on all levels.

 

As oxymorons go...



#546 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 21:51

Now that's a name I want to hear the commentators rattle off during a mid-race battle... Ozeretskovskaya. Ozzy for short.

I am Polish, I speak Russian and still I find this name quite hard to pronounce...

Please note that Lyubov translates as Love



#547 jonpollak

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 14:24

YA znal eto... hence my post above there saying I love love.
Jp

#548 E1pix

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 15:02

^^^ Bastage stole my line ^^^

:-)

#549 7MGTEsup

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 16:49

I was suggesting that You, personally, speak to some lady drivers to get their take -- not quote a vastly minority opinion from the very few that oppose the Series. Detractors can always be found, I find positive thought to be better.

Perhaps you don't realize how pro-male your comments appear. Can you not see the massive opportunity to both expand the fan base, and add a large number of new drivers to racing? Or are you happy watching our sport fading away, as it's been doing since we were kids? Half the population is female, the growth potential for racing here is clear as a bell.

All my female friends who love racing love this concept, even piquing interest in some who've never seen a race. Now, they might. Those opinions matter to me, as one whose hopes are for racing to thrive again on all levels.

 

Do we know for a fact that there are as many woman as men who have an interest in motor racing or even cars?

 

Maybe just maybe the fact that there are only a small amount of woman who pursue racing driver as their chosen profession is because there are only a small proportion of woman who want to do it?

 

I think your doing an disservice to women to say that because they have no role model they will not be interested in doing something. Maybe I'm different to most people but I take an interest in something I like because I like it then once I have an interest I become aware of the people taking part, not the other way around.



#550 thegforcemaybewithyou

thegforcemaybewithyou
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Posted 27 March 2019 - 17:42

Tomorrow morning by 7am GMT, we'll know who made it. https://twitter.com/...949129222569986