2055 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

It’s not a strong enough series in its own right, bluntly. It’s a feeder series. Driving in the W Series shouldn’t be what young girls aspire to, they should all aspire to F1 just like boys.

 

Agree.

 

But where is it supposed to stand? Currently it's at a lower F3 level, which isn't much in terms of speed / spectacle / talent, etc. (Maybe this is an underestimation?)

 

As many have alluded, if the series grows, should the machinery grow with it? Would we be looking at something akin to F2 or SuperFormula? Or is that too much, defeating the purpose of the series?

[Vielleicht]

I totally get her argument, and actually I thought I had similar views. I didn’t like this concept from the start, I thought it was flawed. Well intentioned, but flawed. And I probably still do, underneath it all. Segregation is not the way to do it. And the proof of whether this works will only come in time. IF the best drivers from each year move on to bigger and better things due to the profile they get from this series, great. I want to see Chadwick in FIA F3, Powell in IMSA, Kimilainen in the DTM.....these women having professional careers and I want there to be more Christina Nielsens and Katherine Legges out there - no gimmicks, just drivers hired on merit having good careers.

But IF that doesn’t happen, all this year's key protagonists return for next season and the W Series starts to become somewhere drivers just race for their careers without progressing, then that’s not going to work. It’s not a strong enough series in its own right, bluntly. It’s a feeder series. Driving in the W Series shouldn’t be what young girls aspire to, they should all aspire to F1 just like boys.

But.....for this year, for what it is, I really feel like this series has done a huge amount of good.

Yep, I broadly agree with this very strongly.
 
Especially the last sentence.

[balage06]

it's at a lower F3 level, which isn't much in terms of speed / spectacle / talent, etc. (Maybe this is an underestimation?)

 

I don't think it is. These regional F3 cars are meant to be just above the entry level (F4), because the current international Formula 3 regs are definitely not for absolute beginners and maybe some drivers need this "middle ground" before stepping up to the next level. Costs are also significantly lower, which is also an important factor for a free-to-enter championship.

 

As many have alluded, if the series grows, should the machinery grow with it? Would we be looking at something akin to F2 or SuperFormula? Or is that too much, defeating the purpose of the series?

 

Super Formula isn't even a feeder category, it's a Japanese national championship full of experienced professional drivers. I think that level would certainly be an overkill for an academy-like series and it would also significantly limit the amount of eligible drivers.

 

If the series turns out to be extremely popular amongst female racers, maybe the organizers should consider a two-tier system with the current car at the lower level for newcomers and a more powerful formula around the international F3 level for the more experienced , but I'm not sure about the sustainability of that with their current financial model.

Edited by balage06, 14 August 2019 - 08:40.

[johnwilliamdavies]

It's ok to say "it's a feeder series", but where are the top drivers supposed to go? According to Peter Windsor it costs £900,000 to be competitive in F3, and £1,800,000 in F2, so both of those are obviously out of the question unless some magic sponsors appear from nowhere.

[Ben1445]

But IF that doesn’t happen, all this year's key protagonists return for next season and the W Series starts to become somewhere drivers just race for their careers without progressing, then that’s not going to work. It’s not a strong enough series in its own right, bluntly. It’s a feeder series. Driving in the W Series shouldn’t be what young girls aspire to, they should all aspire to F1 just like boys.

But.....for this year, for what it is, I really feel like this series has done a huge amount of good.

Honestly a really great post, I just want to add a tiny bit of caution about next season because there's something about next season that is very different to this one. SuperLicence points. 

 

Chadwick has already said that the 2020 W Series awarding SuperLicence points might have an effect on where she goes next. It sounds like she would really rather move on to other things than stay, which is great, but I can understand that dilemma. 

 

I agree that W Series has to be a stepping stone not a destination. But if some of the key protagonists stay for one more year, bank super licence points and then move on, I don't think that would be too much of a bad thing. In this one case for 2020 at least. The drivers are encouraged to do dual programs as well and race in anything else on offer to them alongside W Series, so that's something else to factor in. 

 

For the Powells and the Kimilänens tough, for whom SuperLicence points are perhaps less of a concern, I would very much love to see them in series like IMSA and DTM as soon a possible. 

[balage06]

The "Rosenqvist-rule" could be introduced here as well: no one is allowed to stay for more than three seasons.  

[ExFlagMan]

From those figures the top W Series prize does not even get you half way to a F3 budget.

 

Not sure why anyone expects the W Series to get a driver to F1 - given that there are typically only one or two 'novice' drives available in in F1 in any year.

 

What is so special about F1 anyway?

[Ben1445]

The F1 thing is a just a reflection of where young drivers ultimately want to get to and where we expect the best drivers to end up - we can hardly have all the young lads expecting and being talked about as maybe one day making it to F1 and then telling the young women that they're 'only' going to make it to some other level. 

 

But everyone following junior formulae knows that only a small proportion of those who race in them end up with a professional drive and a solid career. And even fewer who go on to do so in F1. So the blanket F1 aim is always an idealistic, glossy veneer - whether it's W series or FIA F3.

 

There's no shame in making a successful career as a driver somewhere else (or shouldn't be anyway). W Series would do well to build a following for the drivers in W Series and push as many of them through into all sorts of categories as they can. They'll take fans with them, bring more people into watching the sport and hopefully inspire more young girls to give karting a go. Maybe then the chances are increased enough to find 'the one' who can make it to F1. 

 

In the meantime though, no harm in Chadwick or anyone else in the W Series field wanting to make it to F1. It's what all of their male competitors are doing as well and, just like with them, one of them might just do it after all. 

Edited by Ben1445, 14 August 2019 - 09:21.

[markeimas27]

What was Pippa Mann complaining about, when she's only raced IndyCar 15 times in 5 years? Doesn't her lack of starts prove the need for W Series?

 

Pippa Mann is doing exactly what her level of ability allows for. She is in exactly the right place for skill and talent. She's no different to a guy of a similar talent and ability i.e. James Davison. 

 

Both are good pro drivers, but neither are great and neither are necessarily deserving of a full time Indy ride. Neither are that young either and so they have risen to a pretty amazing level and have probably maxed out on their abilities. You can't ask for much more. 

 

Re: Pippa, it is irrelevant really as to what her gender / sex is. And it doesn't prove one way or the other the need for a women only series. If you had 20 Pippa's and 20 James' and the James' were getting the middling once a year drives then I would perhaps agree that there is a need for the women series. But it isn't the case. 

 

Edit: I will add to the last sentence. Because, ultimately for those once a year drives at Indy 500 level, it only comes down to one thing and that is budget. If you have the budget and the required experience, no one cares what you look like. You can be thin, fat, tall, short, black, white - man or woman. If you have the bucks, then you have the drive. 

Edited by markeimas27, 14 August 2019 - 10:11.

[Ben1445]

In the meantime though, no harm in Chadwick or anyone else in the W Series field wanting to make it to F1. It's what all of their male competitors are doing as well and, just like with them, one of them might just do it after all. 

Random addendum to all that is that making the success of the W Series live or die on getting a women into F1 is buying into the myth of motorsport's meritocracy. And with all myths of meritocracy, the aim isn't to promote the very best in the business but to preserve the status quo. 

 

If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, F1 would have the 20 best drivers in the world. It does not. If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, we would have a good proportion of women at various levels. We do not. If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, we wouldn't have to worry about changing anything about it. Well, it isn't, so perhaps we do. 

 

At the end of the day, motorsport is about money and connections as much as it is about talent and training. Catherine Bond Muir deciding that she wanted to use her money, connections and business experience to set up a series to help women into motorsport really isn't all that different from an owner of an energy drink company deciding to use his money, connections and business experience to set up a racing team and young driver program. The only difference really is who you decide to help.

 

But of course, the meritocracy myth says that mr energy drink man is only helping the very best and anyone he doesn't help simply isn't good enough *ahem* bull***t *ahem*. 

[statman]

as long as F2/F3/F4 is filled with disastrous drivers that have a seat paid for by daddy, nothing will change.

 

In that respect W series is a breath of fresh air. To break the barrier and give these ladies a platform. And it's working. When someone like Alice Powell (who I understand has a day job as a house painter) now get's the opportunity to join IMSA based on her results in W series, that's massive!

 

And the structure in W series with the rotating cars/engineers is also a big plus.

[Ben1445]

Pippa Mann is doing exactly what her level of ability allows for. She is in exactly the right place for skill and talent. She's no different to a guy of a similar talent and ability i.e. James Davison. 

As with my previous post, this is also a common buy in to the myth. The idea that the level you make it to is a true reflection of your skill and talent. 

 

The best racing driver in the world might be a farmer in France, who tried karting for a bit but just didn't have the money to take it to higher levels. Lewis Hamilton, who may well be the best in the world at this moment in time, may have failed in his motorsport quest had he not tugged at the arm of Ron Dennis at an awards ceremony and then run out of money before he could make it into GP2. How far would Lance Stroll or Lando Norris have got without millions from their rich parents being pumped into their careers? How is that a true reflection of talent? 

 

W Series only has no has no place in motorsport if motorsport is a true meritocracy. And it just isn't - that's a myth. So I think the W Series should be allowed the chance to do some good. 

Edited by Ben1445, 14 August 2019 - 10:28.

[Vielleicht]

At the end of the day, motorsport is about money and connections as much as it is about talent and training. Catherine Bond Muir deciding that she wanted to use her money, connections and business experience to set up a series to help women into motorsport really isn't all that different from an owner of an energy drink company deciding to use his money, connections and business experience to set up a racing team and young driver program. The only difference really is who you decide to help.

I mean, how difficult would it have been for someone like Red Bull to set up an F3 level championship, choose the drivers based on merit via a seelction process, put them in equal cars, rotate them around the different chassis and engineers and distribute a prize pot among the leading drivers? Red Bull are marketing masters, I'm sure they could have come up with a business model that worked.

[Kalmake]

Red Bull might think that's not the most effective way and be right.

[Vielleicht]

Red Bull might think that's not the most effective way and be right.

The most effective way to do what, exactly? Find a Wunderkind driver for their F1 team? You're probably right. And that is indeed what they have chosen to do - it's what the program is set up to do and any other impact be damned.

 

I wasn't talking about that though. I was talking about what if they had specifically decided that they wanted to reduce the motorsport ladder's reliance on budgets and backers and incrase the focus more broadly towards pure merit. They could have chosen to do that and make it work. But they didn't.

[BRG]

What do you make of this news, BRG, considering that W Series has now helped Alice Powell in being called up for a drive with the very team you mentioned as being a good example of how women should go racing? This kind of thing was part the aim all along - putting names on the map in a way that the traditional model was simply failing to do. 

I think it is excellent news for Powell, who was out of racing and the W series has clearly rescued her racing career.  But the IMSA team already had four drivers, so she makes five.  Will they have a second car or is she just pushing another one out?   If the first, then great, if the second...

 

I am incredibly surprised that they haven't had any so far as women's sport is very lucrative right now. So much so that I had assumed that they decided not to worry about it too much out of choice.
 
So I've looked it up and found this for you all: 
How the W Series is driving progress for women in motorsport
 

Interesting.  Funding by equity means that they have to continue for several years because those investors will want their cash back plus a handsome profit.  I hope that sufficient sponsorship can be found to meet that.   I am a little unsure though - the old saw 'How to become a millionaire in motor racing - start as a billionaire'  has been proven true many times  I would have preferred a scheme that supported women drivers in the mainstream with financial backing but that would also not be any guarantee of profit. 

[pacificquay]

I think it is excellent news for Powell, who was out of racing and the W series has clearly rescued her racing career.  But the IMSA team already had four drivers, so she makes five.  Will they have a second car or is she just pushing another one out?   If the first, then great, if the second...
 

She’s filling in for another driver who is unavailable for this race

[Ben1445]

I think it is excellent news for Powell, who was out of racing and the W series has clearly rescued her racing career.  But the IMSA team already had four drivers, so she makes five.  Will they have a second car or is she just pushing another one out?   If the first, then great, if the second...

Christina Nielsen is racing in Japan that date, so she's standing in and shoving no one out. Not a second car though either, at least to at this stage. If she impresses though... 

 

Interesting.  Funding by equity means that they have to continue for several years because those investors will want their cash back plus a handsome profit.  I hope that sufficient sponsorship can be found to meet that.   I am a little unsure though - the old saw 'How to become a millionaire in motor racing - start as a billionaire'  has been proven true many times  I would have preferred a scheme that supported women drivers in the mainstream with financial backing but that would also not be any guarantee of profit. 

 

Think you've hit the nail on the head yourself there. 

[ExFlagMan]

I think it is excellent news for Powell, who was out of racing and the W series has clearly rescued her racing career.  But the IMSA team already had four drivers, so she makes five.  Will they have a second car or is she just pushing another one out?   If the first, then great, if the second...

 

Interesting.  Funding by equity means that they have to continue for several years because those investors will want their cash back plus a handsome profit.  I hope that sufficient sponsorship can be found to meet that.   I am a little unsure though - the old saw 'How to become a millionaire in motor racing - start as a billionaire'  has been proven true many times  [B]I would have preferred a scheme that supported women drivers in the mainstream with financial backing but that would also not be any guarantee of profit.[B] 

 

I wonder how much publicity that would have generated for the chosen drivers, even if they had won in their chosen series?

 

How much TV coverage do these other series get compared to the dedicated slot for W series?

[Ben1445]

The most effective way to do what, exactly? Find a Wunderkind driver for their F1 team? You're probably right. And that is indeed what they have chosen to do - it's what the program is set up to do and any other impact be damned.

Red Bull basically do the driver equivalent of buying up a load of kart engines, testing them to find the best ones out of the box and selling the rejected ones to smaller teams. Calling it a 'Driver Development Program' is a little generous. It's more of a driver selection program. 

 

Albon is a really good example. He was a Red Bull Junior who got dropped, taken on by DAMS, developed into competitive driver and then Red Bull decided they wanted him back. If Red Bull really had a driver development program, they would never have let Albon go. 

 

I wasn't talking about that though. I was talking about what if they had specifically decided that they wanted to reduce the motorsport ladder's reliance on budgets and backers and increase the focus more broadly towards pure merit. They could have chosen to do that and make it work. But they didn't.

 

Well exactly, and W Series did choose to do that. 

 

If there's to be any moaning abut how that puts these women at an advantage now because a ladder with their interest in mind is a much fairer system, then the question to ask is why no one has made a fairer system that caters for everyone. If W Series can do it, why not anyone else? 

[Rodaknee]

If there's to be any moaning abut how that puts these women at an advantage now because a ladder with their interest in mind is a much fairer system, then the question to ask is why no one has made a fairer system that caters for everyone. If W Series can do it, why not anyone else? 

 

I don't think a series for "Skint, Working Class Blokes" will have the same impact with the media or Joe Public.

[Ben1445]

I don't think a series for "Skint, Working Class Blokes" will have the same impact with the media or Joe Public.

Well if they marketed it like that I would definitely expect it to flop!

I think among the public the perception with motorsport is that the car matters more than the driver and that all too often puts people off, thinking the sport is fundamentally unfair. And let’s be honest it’s not far off that. They could play on that angle quite effectively, I think, especially if you showed it off as a place where men and women can compete equally.

“Skint, Working Class Blokes” - not so much....

Edited by Ben1445, 14 August 2019 - 14:40.

[ExFlagMan]

There might be a surfeit of (middle aged) “Skint, Working Class Blokes” around if a large no of these young females watching W Series decide they want to become racing drivers.

 

It is not exactly a cheap exercise to get an aspiring young driver up to the level where they would be eligible for consideration for a W Series drive.

[Rediscoveryx]

 

If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, F1 would have the 20 best drivers in the world. It does not. If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, we would have a good proportion of women at various levels. We do not. If motorsport was truly a meritocracy, we wouldn't have to worry about changing anything about it. Well, it isn't, so perhaps we do. 

 

 

I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong, but what would be "a good proportion of women"? Given that probably 95% of all kids that are doing karting at a reasonably serious level seem to be boys then I think it's more reasonable to assume that a meritocratic system would generate something like one woman per series (obviously my figures are rough estimation, but you probably get the point). Which is not so far away from the current proportion. And that's assuming that physical strength has absolutely nothing to do with success in motorsport, which might not be a correct assumption. Also, the few women that are promoted aren't necessarily doing so well in their respective categories and there are at least a few examples of female drivers getting chances that they'd almost certainly not have gotten if they were male (Tatiana Calderon springs to mind). 

 

My guess is that in today's society, being female would not necessarily be a turn-off for sponsors provided that you can show that you have the talent. If let's say Juri Vips had been female I'd bet she'd be guaranteed a Toro Rosso place as soon as the superlicense points allowed for it as the marketing opportunity for a competitive female would be way higher than the marketing opportunities for a similarly competitive dude from the Baltics.

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 14 August 2019 - 15:17.

[7MGTEsup]

as long as F2/F3/F4 is filled with disastrous drivers that have a seat paid for by daddy, nothing will change.

 

 

There must also be female drivers where daddy/mummy paid for a seat in a racing category. It happens in all sorts of sport where money can get you so far but to truly succeed you need the talent at the end of the day. 

[Ben1445]

I'm not saying that you're necessarily wrong, but what would be "a good proportion of women"? Given that probably 95% of all kids that are doing karting at a reasonably serious level seem to be boys then I think it's more reasonable to assume that a meritocratic system would generate something like one woman per series (obviously my figures are rough estimation, but you probably get the point). Which is not so far away from the current proportion. And that's assuming that physical strength has absolutely nothing to do with success in motorsport, which might not be a correct assumption. Also, the few women that are promoted aren't necessarily doing so well in their respective categories and there are at least a few examples of female drivers getting chances that they'd almost certainly not have gotten if they were male (Tatiana Calderon springs to mind). 

 

I would say that the fact that what may well be 95% or more of those competing in karting being boys has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of meritocracy. The only thing you can learn from that is that vastly more boys try out at karting than girls within the current system and I think that is so much more down to societal norms and expectations than it is about talent. 

 

Edit: On reading back through, only read the following grey paragraph if you are happy to read through my crazy ramblings. First and last paragraphs suffice mostly. 

 

I would suppose that, in a perfect world, if everyone was and always has been able to get as far as their talent would carry them and nothing held them back (not money, not a lack of connections, not inherent sexism, not societal norms, not anything) then we would definitely seen have seen at least one woman reach the highest levels. I would add that, in this supposed world, motorsport has only just come to exist and society doesn't give a damn if you are a man or a woman. Now, we have had drivers like Janet Guthrie, Desire Wilson, Sarah Fisher, Katherine Legge, Danica Patrick to name few all having a go and doing fairly well and reaching, well, some of the the highest levels. So the initial supposition sounds sensible. I'm sure they all have inspired young women to have a go in their own ways. But this has been when there has been barriers (money, connections, inherent sexism, societal norms - the latter of which are thankfully less of an issue these days) which I think have slowed down any snowball effect on take up considerably from an initial position of being a male dominated sport which came to be in a male dominated society. 

 

Anyway, to answer the actual question, I would say that for the sake of the argument that "a good proportion" would be anywhere between 25% and 75%, consistently, in every single category. Assuming that literally the only deciding factor on how far you got was how good you are at racing cars within a society that has never had any preconceptions on gender roles. We don't live in a perfect world though, so that's all just supposition. 

Edited by Ben1445, 14 August 2019 - 17:01.

[Vielleicht]

There must also be female drivers where daddy/mummy paid for a seat in a racing category. It happens in all sorts of sport where money can get you so far but to truly succeed you need the talent at the end of the day. 

It is true of almost all sports. Someone somewhere has to pay for equipment, training, travel, etc. Some are just much better than others in terms because they're either cheap to particiapte in and/or have good funding structure in place on a local, national or international level.

 

For all of the W Series drivers to have got to a level where they could be considered for selection, they would have to have had about as much finincial backing as anyone else at a similar point in their racing career.

[Vielleicht]

Bloody hell, you need to be a special kind of person to be a racing driver o_o
 
https://twitter.com/...708287890526209
 

Fabienne Wohlwend @FWohlwend5
3.8.2019 - Sometimes being strong is the only option you have

The past 1.5 weeks were extreme - I had to overcome the biggest crash of my entire career before the most important race weekend of
@wseriesracing, luckily I walked away with bruises only.

(video in link)

[MrAerodynamicist]

Visser's overtake on Chadwick

https://twitter.com/...638216031756290

[ANF]

Bloody hell, you need to be a special kind of person to be a racing driver o_o
 
https://twitter.com/...708287890526209
 

(video in link)

Ouch! Was that in the VLN race ten days ago? At Schwedenkreuz?

Edit: It was apparently the race in July: https://youtu.be/T2YslyFJ8fI?t=477

Edited by ANF, 14 August 2019 - 21:37.

[Ben1445]

Bloody hell, you need to be a special kind of person to be a racing driver o_o
 
https://twitter.com/...708287890526209
 

(video in link)

   Made of steel these racing drivers. Insane. 

[TomNokoe]

Jesus Christ

[Rediscoveryx]

I would say that the fact that what may well be 95% or more of those competing in karting being boys has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of meritocracy. The only thing you can learn from that is that vastly more boys try out at karting than girls within the current system and I think that is so much more down to societal norms and expectations than it is about talent. 

 

Fair enough, it certainly doesn't have to be explained by talent. Although I wouldn't discard the possibility that maybe boys and girls aren't born into this world as identical blank slates, and that there might be other reasons than societal norms and expectations that explain why boys seem to be more drawn to motor racing and girls seem to be more drawn to horse riding. The meritocracy argument I made was more related to the motorsport system itself. If you start off with a pool of 100 drivers, of which 95 are categorized as A and 5 are categorized as B you would kind of expect that roughly 19 out of 20 drivers that make it to the higher level are from category A if the system is meritocratic (if you're assuming that there are no differences at all in top-end or average ability between the categories).

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 15 August 2019 - 05:33.

[Ben1445]

Fair enough, it certainly doesn't have to be explained by talent. Although I wouldn't discard the possibility that maybe boys and girls aren't born into this world as identical blank slates, and that there might be other reasons than societal norms and expectations that explain why boys seem to be more drawn to motor racing and girls seem to be more drawn to horse riding. 

Indeed I am not. It's why I said that "a good proportion" would be anywhere between 25% and 75% to account for that and so also not discounting the possibility that, if all else was equal, maybe women would actually be better on average for one reason or another. I'm just having a really hard time believing that it would be 95-5% though... either way around. 

 

The meritocracy argument I made was more related to the motorsport system itself. If you start off with a pool of 100 drivers, of which 95 are categorized as A and 5 are categorized as B you would kind of expect that roughly 19 out of 20 drivers that make it to the higher level are from category A if the system is meritocratic (if you're assuming that there are no differences at all in top-end or average ability between the categories).

I suppose that would not be an unfair prediction. 

[balage06]

Garcia plans on doing the TRS season as preparation for next year:

https://www.motorspo...series/4513729/

[Vielleicht]

That's great news, also exactly the kind we want to hear from the W Series competitors. Pushing forward into other established ladder series using the experience and prize money as a stepping stone.

 

Smart plan if you ask me.

[ElectricBoogie]

In case anyone wonders whether these girls want it badly enough...
Seems like an overtake worthy of any series and maybe FIA awards and it didn't need a very long season to take place.

[Ben1445]

Garcia plans on doing the TRS season as preparation for next year:
https://www.motorspo...series/4513729/

Great! And a lucky coincidence that TRS is shifting to the same chassis as W Series from 2020. 

 I tell you what she's got the right attitude... 

“It’s five race weekends and three races per weekend, so it will be great just for the experience and the kilometres. Also the tracks are not the easiest ones, more like Brands Hatch, so for me that’s also good.

“It will be good also to see where I am [against male opponents]; maybe it will be more difficult because the level will be higher, but I don’t know exactly.”

She knows what her weaknesses/unknowns are and so her response is to get out there to find out, learn and improve. 

[Rodaknee]

Fair enough, it certainly doesn't have to be explained by talent. Although I wouldn't discard the possibility that maybe boys and girls aren't born into this world as identical blank slates, and that there might be other reasons than societal norms and expectations that explain why boys seem to be more drawn to motor racing and girls seem to be more drawn to horse riding. The meritocracy argument I made was more related to the motorsport system itself. If you start off with a pool of 100 drivers, of which 95 are categorized as A and 5 are categorized as B you would kind of expect that roughly 19 out of 20 drivers that make it to the higher level are from category A if the system is meritocratic (if you're assuming that there are no differences at all in top-end or average ability between the categories).

 

If you're discussing school age sport, you can't talk about ability and the like.  Children grow at different rates, kids are involved in sport for a thousand different reasons, and not always because they love it.  There are a million examples of kids being brilliant at a particular sport, then failing as an adult.  Many adult champions didn't shine as children.  Many children are amazing at sport and then chose to do something else, especially if they've been forced into a sport by a parent.  You can't pull stats out of your backside and be anywhere near the truth, because there is no truth in kids sports.

[statman]

interesting to see who will be tested. Belen Garcia perhaps, a race winner in Spanish Formula 4.

 

speaking of Spanish F4, another female driver in the series is willing to enter W series:

 

Irina Sidorkova (16 years old), she's part of the SMP program and currently in her first year of single seaters.

 

 

2019: Spanish Formula 4: ongoing (3 top 10s so far)

2018: TCR Russian Touring Car Championship Junior-National: 1st (3 wins, 6 podiums)

2017: TCR Russian Touring Car Championship Junior-National: 2nd (3 wins, 6 podiums)

2017: Ice Circuit Racing Cup: 1st

 

SMP would like to see her enter.

Edited by statman, 16 August 2019 - 08:57.

[sgtkate]

If you're discussing school age sport, you can't talk about ability and the like.  Children grow at different rates, kids are involved in sport for a thousand different reasons, and not always because they love it.  There are a million examples of kids being brilliant at a particular sport, then failing as an adult.  Many adult champions didn't shine as children.  Many children are amazing at sport and then chose to do something else, especially if they've been forced into a sport by a parent.  You can't pull stats out of your backside and be anywhere near the truth, because there is no truth in kids sports.

I played hockey for England u16s. Gave up to join the army. Tried to start playing again recently and I ended up in the 3rd team. That was a hard fall from grace lol!

 

To be a world leader at sport (i.e. playing for your national team or top league level) requires basic talent and a specific mindset. I'd suggest most of the top sportsmen/women are not the most talented but have the desire, dedication and work ethic to make the most of their abilities whereas some more talented sportsmen/women can become blase or bored at a younger age and therefore never develop beyond their teenage years.

 

But to bring it back to racing specifically, and very young kids getting starting in sport, it has to be mostly parental influence. Look at any young kids you know, say under 10, do any of them take part in sports/hobbies that are not something their parents are into? I'd doubt it. Ultimately our kids tend to pick up our loves because parents are the biggest influence until they hit their teens (then all bets are off!). My 3 year old comes running with me (which gets some odd looks I can tell you!), and she will often watch cricket and F1 with me, so her world of 'normal' is extremely different to one of my friends who has another similarly aged girl who rides horses and goes to ballet classes. Until the adults can start to accept that gender differences shouldn't hold their kids back from certain sports then we aren't going to have equality in any sports. By this I also include boys being supported to play netball or dancing and not just girls being allowed to go karting or play football. It MUST be both ways.

 

We are getting there though, things are so different to even when I was a kid and that's not *all* that long ago. The next generation seem to be far more flexible and fluid with their gender norms so unless anything comes along to scupper it in the meantime I'd expect to see a hell of lot more women in motorsport within the next 20 years. W Series is perfectly timed to take advantage of hipster parents like me who don't want their daughters to be pigeon holed into 'girly' things and to show them that they CAN take their daughters karting (cannot wait till mine is old enough....she can already drive an electric tractor at the local farm!)

[HistoryFan]

 

speaking of Spanish F4, another female driver in the series is willing to enter W series:

 

Irina Sidorkova (16 years old), she's part of the SMP program and currently in her first year of single seaters.

 

 

2019: Spanish Formula 4: ongoing (3 top 10s so far)

2018: TCR Russian Touring Car Championship Junior-National: 1st (3 wins, 6 podiums)

2017: TCR Russian Touring Car Championship Junior-National: 2nd (3 wins, 6 podiums)

2017: Ice Circuit Racing Cup: 1st

 

SMP would like to see her enter.

 

 

yes, would be nice to see her in W Series.
 

[statman]

the female CEO said:

 

• they will have def. more races next year (this could either mean more venues or more races per weekend)
• from 2021 they will go to the USA and Asia
• new group of drivers will be tested in Spain in September

Chadwick said that she might be back next year, the Super License points make it interesting for her.

 

more info has been released regarding the test, motorsport.com:

 

A three-day selection process will take place at the Almeria circuit in southern Spain on September 16-18, where the second stage of this year’s selection process was also held.

 

Top 12 can come back. Those 12 drivers will not be required to attend the Almeria test, but a handful might be invited in order to set comparative lap times for hopeful applicants.

 

Numbers 13 to 20 have missed out. They will not take part in the Almeria test and their futures in the series will depend on the performance of the new applicants. “To be clear, the eight drivers who finished outside the top 12 in the 2019 W Series championship are not ineligible for our 2020 season; they’re merely not guaranteed to take part in it. 

“Inevitably they’re now on tenterhooks, eager to race with us again next season, but whether they do or not will to a great extent depend on the quality of the newcomers we test at Almeria in a month’s time, said Dave Ryan” About 40 new entrants have applied.

 

+ https://wseries.com/...or-2020-season/

Edited by statman, 16 August 2019 - 17:24.

[Rodaknee]

I hope W Series have given some thought to the difference in experience of the cars between the new and old drivers next year.  There could be a period of acclimation that could leave the newcomers running around at the back for a couple of races.

 

it'll be interesting watching Marta Garcia's results over the winter.  She was the surprise driver of the series and could be going a long way.

[Ben1445]

Interesting comments from when García was dropped by the Renault Juniors in Spanish F4: 
https://www.motorspo...986704/1382500/
 

"The performance was not great, but also the problem was the economical situation. We couldn’t afford to pay the full season [without Renault’s backing], and they say it’s better if we stop now, because the next step needs more economical support.”

 

_{(emphasis added)}

 

Money, Money, Money. Must be funny...

 

Hits home just how much of a big deal W Series being fully funded drives and giving  good prize money really is. 

[Rodaknee]

An in depth article about W Series TV media, with surprising information about Claire Cottingham.  She had previously commentated on motor sport!!

 

https://motorsportbr...oduction-setup/

[NoForumForOldPole]

Visser's overtake on Chadwick

https://twitter.com/...638216031756290

 

Ballsy move!

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 19 August 2019 - 21:37.

[Chewie]

An in depth article about W Series TV media, with surprising information about Claire Cottingham.  She had previously commentated on motor sport!!

 

https://motorsportbr...oduction-setup/

 

I think she is totally out of her depth, the worst commentator I can recall, shouting “Jamie Chadwick” every 30 seconds is not commentating on the race.

[johnwilliamdavies]

 

Alice Powell on the trials of progressing in motor sport.

[ExFlagMan]

I think she is totally out of her depth, the worst commentator I can recall, shouting “Jamie Chadwick” every 30 seconds is not commentating on the race.

 

She turned up as pit-lane reporter on a BBC 5 Live F1 race.

 

My wife described her performance as  'Jennie Gow Lite', which I thought was being kind...

 

'Absolutely Useless'  was my (redacted) description.

Edited by ExFlagMan, Yesterday, 09:56.