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W Series 2019


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#2301 statman

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 07:35

Test today with the new faces:

 

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EEcLHO-XsAI4jkr.jpg

EEcLHO7X4AEy29W.jpg



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#2302 Rinehart

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:19

Mann's not very good, but she shows up and stays out of trouble and goes fast enough to qualify for a race that usually has more entrants than starting positions. I don't see a problem with that. 

 

Yes, but she does raise her budget by marketing herself as a woman racing in the Indy500, then pooh-pooh's the W Series as being not good for women as it treats them differently. I just think Pippa's agenda is herself, dressed up as feminism. I don't have a problem with her either, but she does talk a load of crap. 



#2303 statman

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:51

even Don McLean chimes in at the W Series page  :up:

 

69286400_195633058112261_287190963287030

 

@thedonmclean
 
Verified

Go Courtney



#2304 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 11:55

Yes, but she does raise her budget by marketing herself as a woman racing in the Indy500, then pooh-pooh's the W Series as being not good for women as it treats them differently. I just think Pippa's agenda is herself, dressed up as feminism. I don't have a problem with her either, but she does talk a load of crap. 

 

I have to say I'm not aware of Pippa's "Lady Racer Marketing" I just know she's out there and seemingly working hard. Always at the track, does radio work, seems annoying on social media, always has a 500 entry, always has lots of stuff on her car. So I admire her hustle? 

 

Although given she runs so much charity stuff I'm assuming she's paying for her ride via family money and then flogging off the space for something worthwhile. Which seems admirable. Unless, and I'm particularly thinking the Susan Komen thing, she's taking a cut in which case....

 

Abbie Eaton(Grand Tour 'driver') was vocally against W Series last year, but seems to be auditioning now. She claimed more or less money was "keeping her from the very top" but given her F3 testing results it will take a lot of time and a lot of money. 



#2305 BRG

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 15:37

Test today with the new faces:

 

EEcLHPCXsAIybl5.jpg

EEcLHO-XsAI4jkr.jpg

EEcLHO7X4AEy29W.jpg

That looks like a lot of mansplaining going on!



#2306 7MGTEsup

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 15:51

That looks like a lot of mansplaining going on!

 

The conversation could be going the other way?



#2307 sgtkate

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 16:03

That looks like a lot of mansplaining going on!

I know you are joking but it is a shame the W Series haven't taken the option to promote women engineers as well and try to get as many as they can in the teams. All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1. The gender gap doesn't just exist in the cockpit.



#2308 ExFlagMan

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 16:58

Not sure there was a great pool of female race engineers available, especially for a new start-up series that was announced rather late.

 

Hopefully it will be able to enthuse other young females to get involved.



#2309 messy

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 17:13

I’m not sure Calderon speaking to them sends out the right message, personally.

I think she’s the absolute antithesis of the W Series’ ethos really. Pushed up beyond her level essentially because of the novelty factor, and way out of her depth. If we’re trying to get these racers drives on merit then sadly Calderon knows nothing about that.

#2310 BRG

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 18:23

I know you are joking but it is a shame the W Series haven't taken the option to promote women engineers as well and try to get as many as they can in the teams. All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1. The gender gap doesn't just exist in the cockpit.

Indeed, and if you had the time to waste poring back through this thread, you would find that I said just that a few months ago.  Definitely a missed opportunity as there is poor representation for women across the board in the sport.



#2311 Collective

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 18:50

I’m not sure Calderon speaking to them sends out the right message, personally.

I think she’s the absolute antithesis of the W Series’ ethos really. Pushed up beyond her level essentially because of the novelty factor, and way out of her depth. If we’re trying to get these racers drives on merit then sadly Calderon knows nothing about that.

I mean, not sure if any of the W Series competitors could equal her number of top 10 finishes in European F3, but I totally get your point. She's way out of her depth in F2, she has been even finishing behind Raghunathan in the last few rounds, if you can believe it.



#2312 MalcolmC

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 21:47

I’m not sure Calderon speaking to them sends out the right message, personally.

I think she’s the absolute antithesis of the W Series’ ethos really. Pushed up beyond her level essentially because of the novelty factor, and way out of her depth. If we’re trying to get these racers drives on merit then sadly Calderon knows nothing about that.

I wouldn't say she's 'way out of her depth', just a backmarker. Like I said earlier, F2 cars are not easy to drive, as was highlighted at Austria where reigning Indy-Lights Champion Patricio O'Ward joined the series. Tatiana beat him in both races, on pace, not because of any penalties. Has Patricio got a brighter future in the sport? Most probably. But I still think Tatiana would have something to offer the W-Series drivers.


Edited by MalcolmC, 16 September 2019 - 21:47.


#2313 ceesvdelst

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 22:28

Does anyone think that this series will actually have the desired effect and push more female racers into high end seats? or is it just playing initially.

 

I think we will end up seeing a lot more in GT racing and the like, perhaps one or two in the F2 and F3 level.

 

And maybe one in F1.

Not sure I agree with a women only series, it goes against the very essence of equality in my book. But be interesting to see. 



#2314 MalcolmC

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 00:17

Does anyone think that this series will actually have the desired effect and push more female racers into high end seats? or is it just playing initially.

 

I think we will end up seeing a lot more in GT racing and the like, perhaps one or two in the F2 and F3 level.

 

And maybe one in F1.

Not sure I agree with a women only series, it goes against the very essence of equality in my book. But be interesting to see. 

I certainly don't want to see segregation expanded too far but I don't think the series is doing any harm with the current format. If the drivers want to progress further they have to reintegrate and that's the goals of these women anyway - they're not wanting to be the FIA Womens World Drivers Champion or the Indycar Womens Series Champion.

 

The series is giving valuable seat time and experience with engineers & media on a scale that they wouldn't have otherwise. The value of seat time in formula cars can't be underestimated. Peter Windsor even thought lack of practice time was a contributing factor in the death of Antoine Hubert - the F2 cars don't get a chance to practice on full tanks prior to racing.


Edited by MalcolmC, 17 September 2019 - 07:43.


#2315 E1pix

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:55

Great post.

#2316 jonpollak

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:00

Good luck @irasidorkova

Jp

#2317 jonpollak

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:03

I heard Kat got on a plane at 10pm last night.
Directly after the IMSA race at Laguna.

She’s driven so many different things this year.
C3-ED03-B6-06-FE-4-F82-BC5-F-2774-FBBA60
Props.
Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 17 September 2019 - 06:06.


#2318 MalcolmC

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:32

All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1.

I think Bernadette Collins, Ruth Buscombe, Michelle Creighton and a few others would disagree with you. But I take your point, it is a long way from gender equality in the F1 pitlane and the W-Series might as well do something about that too.



#2319 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 09:54

I know you are joking but it is a shame the W Series haven't taken the option to promote women engineers as well and try to get as many as they can in the teams. All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1. The gender gap doesn't just exist in the cockpit.

This.
At a Beyonce concert, I got an all woman band. I know there are race minded lady mechanics out there who are not in racing. If they were sought out, wouldn't they do it for the same salary? Or are capable female race engineers actually rarer than lady drivers? 



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#2320 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:07

I wouldn't say she's 'way out of her depth', just a backmarker. Like I said earlier, F2 cars are not easy to drive, as was highlighted at Austria where reigning Indy-Lights Champion Patricio O'Ward joined the series. Tatiana beat him in both races, on pace, not because of any penalties. Has Patricio got a brighter future in the sport? Most probably. But I still think Tatiana would have something to offer the W-Series drivers.

I started out following F2 this year more than usual, supporting Calderon. Don't bully me, I love chick flicks, okay?
I stopped following when I couldn't make up excuses anymore, her late team mate was not a backmarker at all, won a race.
She does seem to lack pace and in race wait too long overtaking cars when she's well able to close up. I could not see the driving, but I saw the timings. Others made the overtakes, she took too long per car ruining her promising strategy.
If in W Series she's a front runner, it will say more about the best racers W Series managed to attract than about Calderon herself. I'm really sad that I'm writing this today, at the start of the season I was seeing myself talk her up a lot by now.

Somehow I get the sense that women get a differerent racing education than guys. I am not basing this on anything, but intutively I feel that a good driving coach should be able to unloack significantly more speed from someone like Calderon. The racing in W series also got me that idea. More about track craft than racing lines. But one random 16 y/o boy in that field might change my mind. Lack of any male reference keeps us guessing until they take part in a male dominated series, or better, endurance racing sharing an actual car with established male racers. I want women to be just as fast but I can't find evidence of it so easily. Part due to low participation rates, part by lack of clear outliers. One pole position or reverse pole domination in F2 by Calderon would change it all. 
In slower (or heavier car) race series women seem to hold their own. And Indy ovals for sure. High paced GP track racing, I want to see them take it to the boys!


Edited by ElectricBoogie, 17 September 2019 - 10:07.


#2321 ExFlagMan

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:07

Will be interesting to see how Abbie Munro does in the test.

 

She appears to be what some on here were complaining about as being lacking in the W series, in it not backing those at the bottom of the system but more aimed at existing drivers.

 

As far as I can see she has only had a total of 5 races in cars, 2 in UK regional FF1600 earlier this year and 3 in the British F4 series last weekend. 

 

If that number is true she does not yet qualify for a full UK national race licence, which would make it quite interesting if she got accepted for the series.


Edited by ExFlagMan, 17 September 2019 - 11:09.


#2322 Rodaknee

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:44

I know you are joking but it is a shame the W Series haven't taken the option to promote women engineers as well and try to get as many as they can in the teams. All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1. The gender gap doesn't just exist in the cockpit.

 

There are women engineers working at W Series.  There was an interview with one who has been released by McLaren to gain experience as a race engineer.  We don't know if W Series has contacted teams offering similar opportunities to women.  There are several women working in F1 already, are you expecting to see them in the front centre of every team photograph as proof?



#2323 Risil

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:56


Yes, but she does raise her budget by marketing herself as a woman racing in the Indy500, then pooh-pooh's the W Series as being not good for women as it treats them differently. I just think Pippa's agenda is herself, dressed up as feminism. I don't have a problem with her either, but she does talk a load of crap.

 

 
Well Pippa Mann is a racing driver so it shouldn't be surprising that she is highly focused on herself.
 
Mann's argument is that funding for woman drivers would be better spent getting them drives in mainstream, non-segregated series instead of paying for a championship exclusively for women. I don't see any hypocrisy there. 
 
It's reasonable to say that the business of funding a motor sport career -- including gendered appeals for sponsorship -- is a different matter to when the competition itself is segregated by gender. If the competition is neither open to all-comers, and nor is the selection based purely on merit, is it a real competition at all?
 
I suppose the counter-argument to Mann is that the W Series itself is that kind of gendered appeal for sponsorship, as it's intended to funnel all the female drivers and money into one place, and the prize at the end is a drive in a mainstream series for the best woman there.


#2324 sgtkate

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:45

There are women engineers working at W Series.  There was an interview with one who has been released by McLaren to gain experience as a race engineer.  We don't know if W Series has contacted teams offering similar opportunities to women.  There are several women working in F1 already, are you expecting to see them in the front centre of every team photograph as proof?

I've seen the handful of female of engineers in F1 indeed, but when there is a racing series designed to promote women in motorsport why didn't they make a larger effort to recruit female technical staff too? Perhaps they did but I've followed the season since the start and have seen no mention of them trying to assist the careers of the female mechanics, just the drivers. Is there less of an gender divide in pit crews? Honest question as I don't have the stats. Following on the TV would suggest a very similar problem there too.



#2325 Ben1445

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:52

I've seen the handful of female of engineers in F1 indeed, but when there is a racing series designed to promote women in motorsport why didn't they make a larger effort to recruit female technical staff too? Perhaps they did but I've followed the season since the start and have seen no mention of them trying to assist the careers of the female mechanics, just the drivers. Is there less of an gender divide in pit crews? Honest question as I don't have the stats. Following on the TV would suggest a very similar problem there too.

I was under the impression that, whilst having the drivers exclusively female is allowable, having any sort of discrimination (positive or not) in the employment of the mechanics/engineers would become an issue under equal employment laws. Bond-Muir made reference to that point in one interview or another at some point during the season, I think (which is why I mention it). 

 

They can probably still do more to showcase and inspire though. Which is more what Susie Wolff's Dare To Be Different does. Or help in other ways like building connections or funding training. 


Edited by Ben1445, 17 September 2019 - 12:54.


#2326 Sterzo

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 14:43

I've seen the handful of female of engineers in F1 indeed, but when there is a racing series designed to promote women in motorsport why didn't they make a larger effort to recruit female technical staff too?

Maybe they will, but they have to start from somewhere, and finding 20 drivers is an ambitious enough objective for a start-up series.

 

Resourcing the support crew for a fleet this size is a massive undertaking, given the need to provide equality. Does anyone know how they did find the engineers and mechanics? I suspect they contracted some of the existing teams to provide people, but I don't know if this is true.



#2327 statman

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 14:56

There are women engineers working at W Series.  There was an interview with one who has been released by McLaren to gain experience as a race engineer.  We don't know if W Series has contacted teams offering similar opportunities to women.  There are several women working in F1 already, are you expecting to see them in the front centre of every team photograph as proof?

 

indeed. In the behind the scenes footage of the w series you can see female engineers/mechanics in the background. They are also partly sourced from the F1, such as this woman from Sauber:

 

https://www.instagra.../linsaywinkler/



#2328 ExFlagMan

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 15:30

I would suspect that most of the engineers were only brought in from other teams on a sub-contract basis, after all, I doubt six race meetings and a couple of tests is a viable basis to sustain them for a full season.


Edited by ExFlagMan, 17 September 2019 - 15:36.


#2329 E1pix

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 15:35

Sabré Cook won an Infiniti Engineering scholarship and has been working full-time at RenaultF1 all year.

#2330 jonpollak

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 18:11

Any times for the test sessions in Spain ?

Or are they not publishing those again ?

Jp

#2331 MalcolmC

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 20:01

If in W Series she's a front runner, it will say more about the best racers W Series managed to attract than about Calderon herself.

AFAIK Calderon is not competing in the W-Series, she's just been brought in for a day at the test session to give some advice/encouragement. Possibly it's just advice on dealing with the media. Some forum members here thought she wouldn't be worth listening to, and I was trying to say she might have something to offer.

 

Other than that, I agree with your summary of her season so far.



#2332 messy

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 20:17

I wouldn't say she's 'way out of her depth', just a backmarker. Like I said earlier, F2 cars are not easy to drive, as was highlighted at Austria where reigning Indy-Lights Champion Patricio O'Ward joined the series. Tatiana beat him in both races, on pace, not because of any penalties. Has Patricio got a brighter future in the sport? Most probably. But I still think Tatiana would have something to offer the W-Series drivers.


She wasn’t too far adrift at the start of the season but seems to have slumped into a weekly battle with Raghunathan not to be last.

#2333 statman

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:19

Formula Renault Eurocup to waive entry fee for female drivers

 

https://www.highwayf...-female-drivers



#2334 balage06

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:31

Formula Renault Eurocup to waive entry fee for female drivers

 

https://www.highwayf...-female-drivers

:drunk:



#2335 Ben1445

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:54

So that’s Renault Eurocup promotors basically giving funding to female drivers within a series where they can race against the Male drivers as well. Sounds an awful lot like what many were calling for...

Question is wether it would have happened or not without the big splash that W Series has made? We may never know...

#2336 Starchild

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:16

That's great news for Sophia Floersch then. It would be interesting to see what she can do in FR Eurocup, in a good team hopefully...

Shame that she hates W series, as I think she is the best and most talented female driver right now (yes, better than Chadwick)... So that would be nice opportunity for her.



#2337 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:21

So that’s Renault Eurocup promotors basically giving funding to female drivers within a series where they can race against the Male drivers as well. Sounds an awful lot like what many were calling for...

Question is wether it would have happened or not without the big splash that W Series has made? We may never know...

 

But is that the aim of the W series? To essentially give female drivers an unfair advantage over their male competitors? 



#2338 Ben1445

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:46

But is that the aim of the W series? To essentially give female drivers an unfair advantage over their male competitors? 

I'd say both were forms of positive discrimination, yes... 



#2339 balage06

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:52

I'd say both were forms of positive discrimination, yes... 

 

So what's your final solution? Every F1 team must sign a female driver because, you know... "EQUALITY"?



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#2340 Ben1445

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:08

So what's your final solution? Every F1 team must sign a female driver because, you know... "EQUALITY"?

No, I think we should ban men from racing and let women take over for the next 100 years to balance out the sport's entire historical timeline  :drunk:  :p  :drunk:

 

(just to be clear I am joking. To prove I can make up ridiculous ideas that no one is advocating for too.) 

 

I do want motorsport to be a more inclusive and fair place for everyone. I do not know the best way to get there.

 

Positive discrimination is always a controversial measure and I'm not a big fan of it. In an ideal world it should never be necessary. 


Edited by Ben1445, 20 September 2019 - 10:14.


#2341 sgtkate

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:24

No, I think we should ban men from racing and let women take over for the next 100 years to balance out the sport's entire historical timeline  :drunk:  :p  :drunk:

 

(just to be clear I am joking. To prove I can make up ridiculous ideas that no one is advocating for too.) 

 

I do want motorsport to be a more inclusive and fair place for everyone. I do not know the best way to get there.

 

Positive discrimination is always a controversial measure and I'm not a big fan of it. In an ideal world it should never be necessary. 

 

Your last sentence sums it up. Our world is not ideal. We have deep seated inequalities and groups of people who are desparate to cling on to their priviledge place and have the power to do so simply by being the incumbent. Unless direct action is taken to resolve this, and sometimes that does include positive discrimination although I'd like to avoid it where we can, then we'll never get anywhere. It is a clear fact that women are under-represented in motorsport, and whilst there may be other factors at play like fitness (dubious!), the main causes seem to be too small a pool of talent at a junior level and many women not being taken seriously enough. Look at the comments made recently by Marko for an example of the fight that is STILL going on. To fix the junior talent pool we need to demonstrate to other girls that motorsport is something they can do, we do this by showcasing females that are good drivers in areas such as the W Series, and by getting support and buy-in from some of the well known series as well. Then it starts to become a self fulling prophecy. Girls see women driving fast on the TV and think it looks cool, they go to their kart track, grow up and become and F1 driver, but first we need to get the women on the radar and to do that we need temporary positive discrimination until a few minds are changed and then we can return to a world without quotas when people picked on merit (or in the case of motorsport, those with money....)



#2342 Retrofly

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:35

Isn't most of the problem that girls just dont want to do motorsport? I know that turns into a vicious circle, but the start has to be parents getting their daughters into karting right?

 

I raced at club level (2 wheels not 4) and maybe less than 1% of the members were women, this is club racing where you turn up and pay for yourself, so everyone has the same opportunity to do it. There's no barriers for women to enter, they just don't. How do you fix that, I don't know.



#2343 ceesvdelst

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:37

Sadly I disagree

 

I think there is, somewhere a woman good enough to make it in motorsport to the very top. We have seen numerous attempts in motorcycle racing, all have failed, despite certain riders getting good chances on good equipment, the best was one who did it all on her own in the 80's. 

 

And also, falsely weighting an entire series to promote women further up there actually goes AGAINST gender equality.

 

Pushing women into lofty positions when they are not necessarily good enough is not the answer. As they will fail, leading to "told you so" stuff form people. 

 

Why does everything have to be so equal, it is obvious to most people, even those with no knowledge that motorsport, both watching and driving is more likely to appeal to men, what is wrong with that? 

 

There are good role models already, but falsely giving them privilege is only going to end in disaster.  

 

I will say that W series is good for exposure and for increasing the portal for women who want to compete, but if that is done, there is no no need for Jorda type figures anywhere. 


Edited by ceesvdelst, 20 September 2019 - 10:39.


#2344 Sterzo

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:06

Isn't most of the problem that girls just dont want to do motorsport? I know that turns into a vicious circle, but the start has to be parents getting their daughters into karting right?

 

I raced at club level (2 wheels not 4) and maybe less than 1% of the members were women, this is club racing where you turn up and pay for yourself, so everyone has the same opportunity to do it. There's no barriers for women to enter, they just don't. How do you fix that, I don't know.

 

Your question was answered by the post immediately before yours:

 

To fix the junior talent pool we need to demonstrate to other girls that motorsport is something they can do, we do this by showcasing females that are good drivers in areas such as the W Series...



#2345 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:44

Your last sentence sums it up. Our world is not ideal. We have deep seated inequalities and groups of people who are desparate to cling on to their priviledge place and have the power to do so simply by being the incumbent. Unless direct action is taken to resolve this, and sometimes that does include positive discrimination although I'd like to avoid it where we can, then we'll never get anywhere. It is a clear fact that women are under-represented in motorsport, and whilst there may be other factors at play like fitness (dubious!), the main causes seem to be too small a pool of talent at a junior level and many women not being taken seriously enough. Look at the comments made recently by Marko for an example of the fight that is STILL going on. To fix the junior talent pool we need to demonstrate to other girls that motorsport is something they can do, we do this by showcasing females that are good drivers in areas such as the W Series, and by getting support and buy-in from some of the well known series as well. Then it starts to become a self fulling prophecy. Girls see women driving fast on the TV and think it looks cool, they go to their kart track, grow up and become and F1 driver, but first we need to get the women on the radar and to do that we need temporary positive discrimination until a few minds are changed and then we can return to a world without quotas when people picked on merit (or in the case of motorsport, those with money....)

 

So when would you stop favorising one gender over another?

 

"Positive discrimination" is in my mind a really weird thing. What you're basically doing is trying to achieve an equal outcome in a manner that is obviously biased in favor of some on the expense of others. No one will have confidence in the outcome of such a system. Chances are pretty good that you'll end up creating a superficially more equal outcome, while simultaneously eroding the confidence that anyone from the systemically favored gender (in this case) has achieved her success on merit. Also, changes are pretty good that this causes more antipathy towards the group that you are trying to help. There are loads of young men trying to make a name for themselves in motorsport who are seriously struggling for finances (by the way, this goes for the absolute majority of all male racers). Are they going to view female racers (or women in general for that matter) in a more or less favorable light when a system becomes obviously rigged to favor the female racers?

 

If the aim is to achieve equality between the sexes, then surely systemic discrimination of one sex can't be the answer?

 

With regards to the "showcasing females that are good drivers in areas such as the W series" comment - isn't that also a bit weird? I mean, when there are no male racers to compare them with, everything becomes hypothetical. If you don't believe that women can race at the same level as men then you won't be convinced by the fact that some women are beating other women. 


Edited by Rediscoveryx, 20 September 2019 - 11:47.


#2346 sgtkate

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:50

So when would you stop favorising one gender over another?

 

"Positive discrimination" is in my mind a really weird thing. What you're basically doing is trying to achieve an equal outcome in a manner that is obviously biased in favor of some on the expense of others. No one will have confidence in the outcome of such a system. Chances are pretty good that you'll end up creating a superficially more equal outcome, while simultaneously eroding the confidence that anyone from the systemically favored gender (in this case) has achieved her success on merit. Also, changes are pretty good that this causes more antipathy towards the group that you are trying to help. There are loads of young men trying to make a name for themselves in motorsport who are seriously struggling for finances (by the way, this goes for the absolute majority of all male racers). Are they going to view female racers (or women in general for that matter) in a more or less favorable light when a system becomes obviously rigged to favor the female racers?

 

If the aim is to achieve equality between the sexes, then surely systemic discrimination of one sex can't be the answer?

 

Let's look at another example. In the UK we have a law that states that anyone who has a disability (covered by the disabilities act) is entitled to an interview as long as they might the minimum criteria for a role, even if they are miles down the list of candidates. This law was brought in because it was shown categorically that people with disabilities were routinely being ignored and not offered interviews even if on paper they were the best candidate. It was felt that employers were too scared to hire or interview those candidates so they were left on the scrapheap. The law was brought in to help positive discriminate towards those with disabilities to help employers change their mindset and see the value these people can bring rather than viewing them as a potential problem. Do othere members of staff look at someone with as disability and have issue with them  because of this law? Doubtful.

 

The irony is that we currently have huge gender inequality and people seem ok with that, but the moment you suggest positively discriminating towards women in anyway, shape or form, sudden gender inequality becomes a problem for them. Funny that, eh?

 

In UK media, the Spectator is one of the highest regarded in times of journalism (even if it is a Tory paper sadly) and here is their take on it: https://www.spectato...discrimination/


Edited by sgtkate, 20 September 2019 - 11:52.


#2347 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:03

Let's look at another example. In the UK we have a law that states that anyone who has a disability (covered by the disabilities act) is entitled to an interview as long as they might the minimum criteria for a role, even if they are miles down the list of candidates. This law was brought in because it was shown categorically that people with disabilities were routinely being ignored and not offered interviews even if on paper they were the best candidate. It was felt that employers were too scared to hire or interview those candidates so they were left on the scrapheap. The law was brought in to help positive discriminate towards those with disabilities to help employers change their mindset and see the value these people can bring rather than viewing them as a potential problem. Do othere members of staff look at someone with as disability and have issue with them  because of this law? Doubtful.

 

The irony is that we currently have huge gender inequality and people seem ok with that, but the moment you suggest positively discriminating towards women in anyway, shape or form, sudden gender inequality becomes a problem for them. Funny that, eh?

 

In UK media, the Spectator is one of the highest regarded in times of journalism (even if it is a Tory paper sadly) and here is their take on it: https://www.spectato...discrimination/

 

I don't think that's comparable at all.

 

I can't see how anyone could claim that it has been shown categorically that female drivers have been routinely ignored and not offered drives even when on paper they were the best candidates. There are no Maxine Verstappens out there tearing up F3 but at the same time being ignored by the F1 driver schemes. If anything, the female drivers that have been given a chance by young driver programs have a less prominent CV than many of the male racers that have been overlooked.

 

I think this situation would be more comparable to someone arguing that there's way to few guys from Thailand playing in the Premier League, and that we therefore should use "positive discrimination" (ie discrimination) to get a bunch of thai guys into the league, in order to help build football interest in Thailand.



#2348 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:32

I know you are joking but it is a shame the W Series haven't taken the option to promote women engineers as well and try to get as many as they can in the teams. All the pit crews etc appear to be men, just like in F1. The gender gap doesn't just exist in the cockpit.

 

A "gender gap" exists in almost everything! This is not a bad thing, despite the claims of the idealists that strive to live in a fantasy land of their own creation. We don't live in an ideal world therefore ideal outcomes don't happen. Funny how it only becomes a bad thing when certain groups of people are deemed to be in receipt of a bum deal.

 

This morning I was looking into the legal requirements for bathrooms in the workplace, as part of a planning process for a new build. There is a gender gap in that too, but because it is a gap that favours women, it is seen as acceptable. Female employees have to provided with far better provision than male employees do, even down to the number of facilities provided per the number of employees.

 

For women only or mixed used toilets, you have to provide at a minimum 1 toilet for 5 people or fewer, where for men only you only have to provide a minimum of 1 toilet for 15 people or fewer.

 

I notice there aren't many people calling for discrimination to equalise this. If people were genuinely seeking equality they would be seeking to erradicate these things too, but as usual the cry for equality only comes when a person/ a group of people are seeking preferential treatment for themselves over others.
 


Edited by JavierDeVivre, 20 September 2019 - 12:34.


#2349 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:37

Formula Renault Eurocup to waive entry fee for female drivers

 

https://www.highwayf...-female-drivers

 

"We just want equality!"... "Give us free stuff!"

 

The sad part about this is that there are going to be people who actually define this as women being treated equally to men, and even worse, there will be people who think this isn't enough.

 



#2350 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:40

So that’s Renault Eurocup promotors basically giving funding to female drivers within a series where they can race against the Male drivers as well. Sounds an awful lot like what many were calling for...

Question is wether it would have happened or not without the big splash that W Series has made? We may never know...

 

Preferntial treatment and free stuff for women just because they are women. Yup, there's plenty of people who want that. What these people deserve though is to be laughed back to the sexist caves they came from.

 

Oh and don't flatter W, the toxic view of providing women with preferential treatment in order to treat them "equally" is far more widespread than a small racing series. Especially in academia.