38 replies to this topic

[BlackGhost]

I think it was unfair for Thomas Schecter to be fired for soliciting a prostitute.

Hugh Grant didn't lose his acting career over it. Should Scheckter lose his over a similar incident?

I think Jaguar over-reacted by firing him.

[NYR2119935]

really??????
wow
Bad Boyz Bad Boys

[Comma]

Jaguar were looking for a reason to let him go before anyways.
Plus his actions are publicly seen as illegal, which would not please the sponsors, damaging both the sponsors image as well as Jaguars. The sport is based on the public, and sponsors are only image to achieve maximum good publicity and not to be associated with sleaze. This would give both areas a reason to want to let him go on top of other previous reasons.

I personally think that if he's a good driver then he should drive - what he does in his private life is his business, and it wasn't exactly anything major. But I guess it's up to the powers that be....

Seems ridiculous to me really. He's a good driver and they're sacking him over an incident that does not impact on his ability. I suppose he knew the possible outcomes if he went ahead at the time though. I just have no problem with what he did, and to now possibly have lost a promising career over something so insignificant is ridiculous.

If the only issue was the prostitute but Jaguar were behind Scheckter and saw him as a good hope for the future who they wanted to win for them, would they have just said "that's it, you're fired" straight away? I somewhat doubt this. They were looking for an excuse to get rid of him, and he handed them one. He would have been out of the team sooner or later anyways with another feeble excuse.

Shows how much they valued him as a ream member and a driver....

[Rene]

Its a bad move to fire a driver over a trivial incident...considering the womanizing which their #1 driver is known for it makes the whole MORAL condemnation a bit hollow...

[fifi]

Irvine may be a womaniser but it has never hit the headlines that he was caught paying for it.
I read that the incident was in Feb, and this is Jag making a public announcement that he has been dismissed due to the case appearing in court, this would be a major embarassment to them, in fact several companies dealing with the public now have a morals part written into a contract, and going to a prostitute and being caught would be seen as being unmoralistic

[ehagar]

Selling is legal, fu*king is legal. Why isn't selling fu*king legal?

Isn't it strange that it is illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?

I'm still lauging over the fact that they tried to Impeach a President for doing something that wasn't illegal....

[Ross Stonefeld]

being a womanizer isnt illegal, soliciting a prostitute in the UK is

I dont beleive this is a moral issue

[Comma]

He didn't have sex with her though - the police caught his curb crawling and she was there 'in a state of undress' giving him a blowjob.

Irvine is different as he doesn't actually pay for it I guess - for some reason the lay-deez go to him (nowt to do with his fame and vast wealth I'm sure ... )

Anyways - if they wanted to keep him and valued him before then they wouldn't just have sacked him like that straight away. It shows that this was just a flimsy excuse they used to cover what they had already planned.

As for the moral high ground - that shouldn't be an issue. Different people view different things right and wrong, and it shouldn't be for companies to start preaching top people or sacking them for going against an invisible and unnecessary ethics code which has no purpose - it's not their right to decide what someone does in their time. Anyways, what he did wasn't wring.

[Comma]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
being a womanizer isnt illegal, soliciting a prostitute in the UK is

I don't believe this is a moral issue

Some would say that a woman who just goes for one night stand with a guy because he's rich and famous with no other attraction or relationship there is just a glorified prostitute.... I don't personally agree with that, but it's different people's moral standards.

UK laws are screwed anyways. It should be legalised.

[dan2k]

I feel sorry for him, its not his fault that his ugly and can't get sex for free!!!
I don't get Jaguar, because he had sex with a hooker, their firing him?!?!?
They should applaud him, having a girl friend can often distrack you, so Thomas decided whenever he wanted sex he would just get some hooker from the street for a quick shag, no hassles.
This is surely going to ruin his carier in F1, like how it ruined Bill Clinton.
If he's looking for another team now, please Thomas, whatever you do don't go to Sauber!

[kodandaram]

Well i think it was a bit too harsh on toe-mas but then i think there is a point in it. I wonder whether schekter got a bit too carried away.On his part he should have been a bit careful with his attributes since his position in the team is yet to be fully consolidated . And a race seat with jaguar is hardly obligatory .
The way i see it though , he could have been handed a "mother of all rollickings " and a heavy fine and let off . But when a team like jag struggling to live up to the legendary image it portrays is afflicted with probs such as these it takes a lot out of them. And i certainly would not have borne with thomas if i were in the jag management.The guy is expected to do some valid useful contribution to the team ON TRACK IN THE RACE CAR and instead he does things that blemishes his image and naturally the teams image for employing him.You see Jaguar don't have a management headed by Eejay It is a serious outfit ridden with probs and toe-mas is not welcome to add more to it.
More so i personally did'nt think he should have had that seat there . There were a lot more guys around better than him like lotterer and Karthikayen.Anyway lets see.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The entire board may in fact consider that a form of prositution. But the law doesnt. So in the end it doesnt matter. I tend to beleive there was more behind the firing than just the court thing, but he was breaking the law, not someone's moral code

[Comma]

Laws are laws - but it doesn't mean they're right. Besides, half the MPs break anyways;)

As for the sacking - evidentially the prostitute wasn't the reason. They'd wanted to let him go for a while now and were just looking for an opportunity with the least backfire on themselves... whether he would have been there in the first place without the influence of daddy is another matter (personally I think he'd be in a lower driving series and has been fast tracked into F1 in a position where there is better candidates already available).

[obi-one]

Unless it was explicitly in his contract not to do it, it was pathetic to fire him. Maybe Ralf and Jenson should get fired for getting speeding tickets.

[vroom-vroom]

If this was done to open the spot for a more deserving driver, I'm all for it. Rahal appears to hold Franchitti in high esteem and might bring him over for intensive testing/grooming in between CART races.

The whore stuff was just an excuse to get rid of Sheckter, IMO. His spot there was more a result of his dad's lobbying efforts than much else. If his feedback wasn't up to par, any excuse would have done.

[Bex37]

It may be illegal in the UK, but its not illegal in Australia. How many rounds of the championship are held in countries where it is illegal. If it is less than 50%, he should definitely not get fired.

[vroom-vroom]

Well, I heard Niki hasn't been too successful at kerb crawling, the ladies of the night taking it upon themselves to call the cops...

[confucius]

I think it involves many issues. Perhaps it was a convenient way for Jag to get rid of him, but I think it is also a question of maintaining a certain image that Jaguar would like to uphold. Hugh Grant does not represent anyone but himself. Tomas represents his employers, and F1 is a sport where image is of huge importance. Espcially for a luxury carmaker like Jaguar!!

And lastly, I read that Tomas and the prostitute were actually engaged in oral sex. Which (honestly) until not long ago, I thought it meant talking dirty.

[Alfisti]

Originally posted by Comma
Jaguar were looking for a reason to let him go before anyways.

Exactly ... they couldn't beleive their luck IMHO.

[mono-posto]

Originally posted by ehagar
Selling is legal, fu*king is legal. Why isn't selling fu*king legal?

Isn't it strange that it is illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?

I'm still lauging over the fact that they tried to Impeach a President for doing something that wasn't illegal....

That's the best bit of logic I've heard in a long time.

[Frans]

they did a good job with that.

Recless drivers need to be punished, happily Jaguar has the nerve to fire his ass!

[vroom-vroom]

Maybe he wasn't wearing a helmet?

[silver fan]

The irony of the incident as I see it is more than a few British MP's have been "serviced" in the back seat of a Jaguar by call girls over the years, never harmed the image of Jag as far as I know.;)

[jonpollak]

Talk about a balls up?!?!?!
look what ITV has Done....

http://www.itv-f1.co...story_5123.php3

You think someone would proof read the things they let out huh?....

Thomas NOT Jody, you fools!!!

Jp

[arcwulf7]

I think Jaguar looks pretty ridiculous, making a mountain out of molehill. Girls and F1 go together like cherry pie and cheese (??? i don't know either, but it sounded about right!!) . So what if this was a little on the sordid side of things, a dressing down (no pun) in the motorhome might have been appropriate. OR. if it was his driving, bloody well fire him for that, rather than creating this spectacle of righteous indignation.

[hermit]

Sure there are people out there who think it fine and dandy to get a "personal" service with a hooker, but it is still largely an anaccepted practice. While the incident is not really a public issue, jaguar saying something like, "we sacked him for differences in our philosiphies" is likely to be interpretted in numerous, unfounded and possibly more damaging ways.

Congrats jag on good moral values and not being afraid to sack one of their public figureheads....

<- (schekter - post incident...)

[AT-LAW]

I voted no, but after reading the posts, I don´t know what to think.
In Spain, paying for sex is not a crime, so I am biased by that fact. Maybe the right approach is that a driver should not be a convict, doesn´t matter wich crime are we talking about.

[BlackGhost]

Originally posted by Frans
they did a good job with that.

Recless drivers need to be punished, happily Jaguar has the nerve to fire his ass!

I wonder if any of the people who decided to fire him ever paid for a prostitute?

In Germany, Holland, Italy, France no one would ever get convicted for an act of that nature, funny isn't?

[RedFever]

that's what happens if you race for a team managed by an American and an Austrian ---- a virulent form a pseudo-puritanism that has no place to still exist, 2 days from now nobody would have given a damn about this incident, but by firing him, they gave the news 100 times more relevance (who's the idiot at their PR agency who recommended this move???).

If Thomas was racing for an Italian or German team, chances are nobody would have given a damn about it at all.

[Ross Stonefeld]

There's something going on here we are missing. It doesnt make sense to use the incident as an excuse to drop Scheckter. If he wasnt good for the job thats all they needed to drop him, the prositute part just confuses it all

[arcwulf7]

Originally posted by Frans
they did a good job with that.

Recless drivers (sic) need to be punished, happily Jaguar has the nerve to fire his ass!

I gess Frans has a point here. This is the news story from ITV

"He had been driving a sports car near to the Silverstone circuit before being caught receiving oral sex from a prostitute"

Being orally serviced while at wheel of a sports car must be every bit as distracting as using a cell phone, and therefor a hazard to every other driver on the road.

[FlatFoot]

Big deal...how many times had Scheckter taken the wheel of the R1? 5 times max? How many times had he driven the R2? z-e-r-o

Good riddance. Jaguar has appeared to be inadequately prepared for F1 these past two years. No need to keep on someone who publicly humiliates the company and is a distraction. Whether or not I/we morally agree or disagree with what he did makes no difference.


..
Bet now that he wished he'd taken a drive in F3000. At least he'd have the Hungaroring (Budapest) to look forward to

[ehagar]

Originally posted by dan2k

This is surely going to ruin his carier in F1, like how it ruined Bill Clinton.

I don't know, Clinton gets about as much airtime here in Canada as the current president.

'And former president Clinton is in India....'

If anyones career was ruined, it was Kenneth Starr's...

Thomas sounds like he needs to go to a proper team that satisfies his 'needs'. Call Eddie Jordan young man!

[Harald]

I really doubt that this one incident was the only straw on the camel's back.

Jaguar clearly are still in significant turmoil. And, as a long-time fan of Bobby Rahal (we four-eyed racing fanatics have to stick together ) I take very seriously these recent reports that senior Ford and Jaguar management have given Bobby until the end of this season to show significant progress toward getting The Cat moved toward the sharp end of the grid.

Each team has its own way of evaluating their test drivers, especially one - like Scheckter - who has no actual F1 racing experience. I suspect that both Bobby and Niki took a long hard look at all three of their up front drivers. And, pretty obviously, they had come to the conclusion that all three are probably not what they need to really get Jaguar out of the pit lane. (Yes, I meant all three.)

I think I mentioned here some time ago that anyone near Silverstone or Milton Keynes after Niki joined The Cat was likely to see him sitting on the pit wall with a blood-stained guillotine somewhere nearby. I think I also suggested that anyone with a racing suit and a helmet was likely to be invited - or even kidnapped - into a Jaguar R1T if either Niki or Robert R. thought that person had the slightest chance of helping the team become more competitive.

Well. Burti's gone. Now Scheckter has gone west. And, again, I doubt that this one incident was the only reason for his termination, unless there were other, uhh, 'lifestyle' issues that we didn't know about before this last one.

Now, all this activity in Place Vendome can't be very confidence-inspiring for Eddie, but he is probably safe through the end of the season for the simple reason that there isn't anyone else out there likely to help the team more than he can for the balance of 2001. And that, folks, is probably the only thing keeping Eddie off the unemployment line.

Last week I was suggesting that perhaps Rubens ought to take Bobby and Niki to lunch. And maybe he even ought to pay for it.

At the rate Niki and Bobby are trundling bodies out the door at Milton Keynes, Rubens could probably get away with driving the mid-day lunch truck to the back door. As long as he brings his own helmet with him.

The news item here - and elsewhere - about this says that both Lotterer and his team-mate - name escapes me - might get occasional runs in the R2 during testing sessions. I also presume that de la Rosa's acknowledged abilities as a test and development driver will help cement his position with The Cat.

But, long term, this all has to be a bit off-putting. For Jaguar and, above all, for Jac Nasser and the rest of Henry's Kids in Dearborn.

Remember, Nasser recently reiterated that, in five years or less, Jaguar and the entire Advanced Automotive Group will be cut loose from Ford's corporate apron and will have to survive financially on what sponsorship and internally generated revenues that can scrounge on their own. That would mean Jaguar have to make some serious advances toward regular podium appearances in the next season and a half, to be able to attract more big league sponsors willing to pony up the kind of money they will need to really tackle Ferrari, McLaren and WilliamsBMW.

Hence the swap-out of de la Rose for Burti. And, frankly, if Scheckter had had the off-track life of St Thomas More, I doubt that he would have survived past the end of this season as Jaguar test driver.

Shame. But, then, we are probably just a season away from an explosion of promising young drivers in F1: Pizzonia, Sato, Davidson, Parfett, Pantano, Lotterer and possibly one or two Colonials such as Scott Dixon (supposedly already under one of those damnable driver development contracts with you-know-who-in-Woking) or maybe even Phil Giebler, Phil Edwards or Jeff Jones. In that explosion of star stuff on the F1 grid, I am not sure Tomas would have fared all that well anyway.

The Mourning Anchor
Paunchy's ;) Jubilant ;) Paddock
Washington's 4-year Experimental Weed-and-Shrub Garden

[Tech_Nut]

I agree that in most normal circumstances this little incident would be forgotten in a week or two. But if you take the Hugh Grant analogy and apply it to what's happened here, then things could get a lot tougher for Scheckter Junior over the next few weeks. I know that Mr Grant's "girl" became an instant celebrity, featured on all the chat-shows - Oprah and Rikki Lake, and she also released a hit single + kickstarted her own acting career. Hardly low-profile. For her, getting caught with Hugh Grant by the cops was the best thing that ever happened.

But it could be lucky for Mr Schecker, that outside the world of F1 racing he is simply not well known enough for his "girl" to receive the same kind of career boost. But I wouldn't relax just now if I was Tomas. Knowing the way the UK tabloids work, I'd wait and see what happens with next weekends issues. If his "girl" is spread naked accross the centre pages, along with all the dirty details, then his future F1 career really WILL be in the toilet.

TN

[Harald]

Hey! A question for those (tens of thousands? ) in the UK:

What happened to this story going the rounds at season's beginning that some woman had, well, an 'event' with Coulthard and then told all, to the apparent detriment of his engagement?

Is that story still running in the tabloids, or whereever, over there? It pretty died on arrival over here, even among us in the F1 Fraternity here.

The Faithless Elector
Paunchy's Jubilant Paddock

[DaveK]

Jag is a publically held private enterprise company therefore they can do as they please and be held accountable by their shareholders. If they feel an employee's actions bring any amount of disrepute to their product, supporters or share value they nuke the little puke. Good ridance, Thomas.

[mono-posto]

Can I ask a stupid question? What's the difference between being a prostitute and filming a porn, where you're still getting paid to have sex?

There's alot of porn made in the UK. Seems a double standard, no?

[Rob29]

Not seen anything about this story in UK media,only on this board.A non event as no one but us racing enthusiasts has ever heard of Tomas. Hugh Grant still is a worldwide celebrity.