76 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Chris Medland‏ @ChrisMedlandF1 4m4 minutes ago

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OFFICIAL: Ocon excluded from #USGP for exceeding fuel flow limit. Hartley promoted to P10 behind Magnussen (for now) and Perez #F1

 

 

Update
 

Luke Smith‏Verified account @LukeSmithF1 4m4 minutes ago

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And also confirmed now that Magnussen is disqualified, meaning final points go to Hartley and Ericsson #F1 #USGP

Edited by Marklar, 21 October 2018 - 22:25.

[Synkro89]

Oh deary me 

[ConsiderAndGo]

amateur hour !

[theflyingwheel]

Lmao the only person happy with this is Perez

[beachdrifter]

Lmao the only person happy with this is Perez

 

Ocon keeps outperforming him, yet doesn't get the points. Frustrating.

Edited by beachdrifter, 21 October 2018 - 22:23.

[Marklar]

There we go
 

Luke Smith‏Verified account @LukeSmithF1 4m4 minutes ago

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And also confirmed now that Magnussen is disqualified, meaning final points go to Hartley and Ericsson #F1 #USGP

[FLB]

Too much 'Meeeeowww'.

[theflyingwheel]

Kmag Excluded as well, Perez on the fight for best of the rest this season closing the gap to Hulk

[ar1]

Interesting that the mistake was made on Ocon's car but not Perez's - i'm guessing that they run fuel flow just on the limit so occasionally stray over the line?

[Laster]

Lmao the only person happy with this is Perez

And Hartley and Ericsson.

[allaboard70]

Bad times for Haas. They really had great races at the first part of the season. Now it's a real mess.

[BalanceUT]

Bad times for Haas. They really had great races at the first part of the season. Now it's a real mess.

Yeah, that Australian Grand Prix was great! 

 

Haas as a team has shot themselves in the foot repeatedly this season. Never mind both Grosjean and Magnussen's wrecks, the team has poured earned points down the drain. 

[jonpollak]

Too much 'Meeeeowww'.

Hey.. who got into the audio feed..?
Was it also in the world feed or just SKY?
Jp

[Loosenut]

Hey.. who got into the audio feed..?
Was it also in the world feed or just SKY?
Jp

Aaaah I thought I heard someone in the background doing that!    I heard it too on CH4.

[Wuzak]

So Ocon had a fuel flow infringement, and Magnussen had a race fuel infringement (used too much).

 

It is amazing that this is only the second time someone has been excluded due to the fuel flow and only the first for using too much fuel during the race since this engine formula began.

 

KMag was 100g over the limit.

 

Maybe it is about time that serious consideration be given to dropping that race fuel limit altogether - it doesn't help with the racing at all.

 

Next season the race fuel goes from 105kg to 110kg.

[Neno]

Somewhere in Haas headquarters there is guy yelling "It's all Renault's fault!"

[Myrvold]

Maybe it is about time that serious consideration be given to dropping that race fuel limit altogether - it doesn't help with the racing at all.

 

Won't change much though, at many races they underfuel the car as that is faster than having it full...

[jonpollak]

Aaaah I thought I heard someone in the background doing that! I heard it too on CH4.

Confirmed.
All world feed carriers got the mmeeeooowww.

EDIT: Now we’re gonna have to ask Jamie on the F1 broadcast page F1 does for us for us punters as to WTF transpired there.

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 22 October 2018 - 05:09.

[Baddoer]

Good. We need more technical infrigements.

[loki]

I thought it was Liberty trying to fix the engine sound debacle. You know, Super Bowl and all...

 

 

Being on the world feed that narrows it down quite a bit.  They don't have commentary during the race so it's likely an ambient mic from around the track.  It was a helo shot so they wouldn't have been using a mic from up there.  The comms, talkback and IFB sends route through the console on live TV shoots particularly sports.  That could mean it was someone clowning about on the crew, talent, etc but those things are routed through the desk differently than a program feed.  Plus that would be pretty much game over for your gig if you got caught doing that on purpose and maybe even if it was an honest mistake.  

 

My guess would be it's an ambient mic somewhere that a person could get to it and talk or shout into it pretty easily.   Could have been a corner worker.  My understanding is not all down there are licensed SCCA corner workers.  The region doesn't have enough, they can't get enough to travel down there (they volunteer and pay their own way) and I understand some of the spots have more inexperienced workers.  When we do gigs that require ambient/crowd mics we try to place them so they are close enough to get what we want but positioned so a) nobody steals them b) nobody in particular can be individually heard in any particular mic especially when it's live.  

[kumo7]

It is a severe competition.

Well if threes a rule, you must have someone exceeding the limit, and those who exceeded must be found!

[dave34m]

Won't change much though, at many races they underfuel the car as that is faster than having it full...

Yes well they should seriously look at that as well, maybe making them start with the full fuel amount so they can run hard much more. This fuel saving from the beginning of the race isn't good for drivers or fans.

[David Lightman]

Magnussen finally gets chucked out of a race but it's not for his driving. It's a start I guess.

[statman]

Kevin Magnussen‏Verified account @KevinMagnussen 9h9 hours ago

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Unfortunately today we were racing in Formula Fuelsaving rather than Formula 1. And we used 0.1kg (!) too much for the whole race so we got disqualified. Those are the rules so we just have to manage better. Car was great though and the pit stop was amazing. On to the next one!

[Nigol]

Too much is too much.

[Laster]

0.1kg is a silly amount to be thrown out on, but the line has to be drawn and it’s clearly stated in the rules where. Magnussen could see how much he was using and should have managed it better, and Haas should have been in his ear making sure of it. They have no one to blame but themselves.

All that said, I do agree with him that the constant need for fuel saving in F1 isn’t what racing should be about.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Ocon had a valid point though. When you’re exceeding track limits and don’t gain an advantage, you don’t get a penalty. Yet, he only exceeded fuel flow limits on lap 1, but did it gain him anyting? Not really. If I’m correct he even lost many positions on lap one. But he get’s disqualified for it...

[Burai]

"In the end, that's our responsibility to control the fuel amount, but I still disagree with Formula 1 having to run on these rules," said Haas team boss Gunther Steiner.

 

"I hope next year, with having 110 kilograms, this will change, but we change another rule and put a big front wing on, so maybe this will be the same."

 

"One day we'll get to have a good show but at the moment it isn't."

 

Yes, of course, it was the rules' fault that you screwed up.

[DeKnyff]

For those complaining about fuel saving rules, you have to understand that it's the only way to save Formula 1 and motorsports in general. There is no way any multinational (let alone any car maker) would want to be associated with an uncontrolled fossil fuel burning, energy wasting, activity. Or even worse, it could put powerful environmentalist lobbies against the sport. Can you imagine the devastating effects of an anti-motorsports campaign by Greenpeace?

[pitlanepalpatine]

Kmag Excluded as well, Perez on the fight for best of the rest this season closing the gap to Hulk

 

*Looks at the Results - Hulk 6, Perez 8*

 

Pretty sure that closing a gap in F1 involves being in front of the guy you're close the gap too?

[SpeedRacer`]

Ocon had a valid point though. When you’re exceeding track limits and don’t gain an advantage, you don’t get a penalty. Yet, he only exceeded fuel flow limits on lap 1, but did it gain him anyting? Not really. If I’m correct he even lost many positions on lap one. But he get’s disqualified for it...

 

I think the purpose is stop people developing rocket engine modes that could only be used for a certain amount of time, even if very short.

 

But it seems a very odd issue to have 5 years into this set of regulations, never seen before from Merc. It was more understandable from Riccardo in the very first race of these engine regs.

Edited by SpeedRacer`, 22 October 2018 - 09:48.

[NixxxoN]

Unfortunately today we were racing in Formula Fuelsaving rather than Formula 1.

Boo hoo. Its always been like that in the non-refuelling F1...

[pdac]

I think the purpose is stop people developing rocket engine modes that could only be used for a certain amount of time, even if very short.

 

But it seems a very odd issue to have 5 years into this set of regulations, never seen before from Merc. It was more understandable from Riccardo in the very first race of these engine regs.

 

Clearly teams (some at least) think they have learned enough about the PUs to push the window to the limit. Clearly teams (some at least) have not got it down quite right yet.

[drpfeffer]

Haas can only blame themselves, contrary to all the penalty inconsistensies we see time and time again where stewards have to judge particular racing situations this one is straight forward. You can use 105kg. And too much is too much. Plain and simple.

 

Maybe Haas were expecting to get lapped by the frontrunners, as they were not lapped they had too complete the final lap too. Cant be many seconds you can run a F1 car on 100g. of fuel? Surely the guy with the calculator will be factoring in one more percent of safety margin next time.. ;-)

[ANF]

Magnussen finally gets chucked out of a race but it's not for his driving. It's a start I guess.

The last couple of laps his race engineer was shouting on him to save fuel. It takes some skill though.

[JacobRPP]

Ocon had a valid point though. When you’re exceeding track limits and don’t gain an advantage, you don’t get a penalty. Yet, he only exceeded fuel flow limits on lap 1, but did it gain him anyting? Not really. If I’m correct he even lost many positions on lap one. But he get’s disqualified for it...

 

Sainz got 5 seconds for overtaking min. 2 cars outside the track, and received the penalty very late, so it had no real implication other then a longer pitstop. I am with you here, the fairness of the penalty does not reflect the positions gained in either case.

[7MGTEsup]

Yeah, that Australian Grand Prix was great! 

 

Haas as a team has shot themselves in the foot repeatedly this season. Never mind both Grosjean and Magnussen's wrecks, the team has poured earned points down the drain. 

 

Maybe Ferrari parts aren't the only things they get from Ferrari?

[46700]

What a shambles F1 has become only allowed brand X tyres ,at restricted pressures ,fuel flow regulated ,don't cross over the white /blue/red line on corners,oh for the good old days cars of differing configuration different tyre brands gulp as much fuel as you like have gravel a foot or more deep on the corners go off & you stay off ,no aids, a gear shift & clutch pedal possible to hook #2driver out if #1drivers car fails team order passing I have no quarrel with the safety constraints but all these frilly bits front sides & back want to be banned & if a car can't run in dirty air design one that can  or go the other way & drive 'em from the pit wall like a drone one bit of wheel to wheel racing for aprox 4 corners on a single lap in a 56 lap ace has the channel 4 commentator peeing himself with excitement after some of the racing from bygone days it's like watching paint dry  Dons helmet & awaits incoming

[Paul Parker]

Ocon had a valid point though. When you’re exceeding track limits and don’t gain an advantage, you don’t get a penalty. Yet, he only exceeded fuel flow limits on lap 1, but did it gain him anyting? Not really. If I’m correct he even lost many positions on lap one. But he get’s disqualified for it...

 

The regularity diktats are more important than the racing long, long since, even with something as innocuous and irrelavent as this.

[DeKnyff]

What a shambles F1 has become only allowed brand X tyres ,at restricted pressures ,fuel flow regulated ,don't cross over the white /blue/red line on corners,oh for the good old days cars of differing configuration different tyre brands gulp as much fuel as you like have gravel a foot or more deep on the corners go off & you stay off ,no aids, a gear shift & clutch pedal possible to hook #2driver out if #1drivers car fails team order passing I have no quarrel with the safety constraints but all these frilly bits front sides & back want to be banned & if a car can't run in dirty air design one that can  or go the other way & drive 'em from the pit wall like a drone one bit of wheel to wheel racing for aprox 4 corners on a single lap in a 56 lap ace has the channel 4 commentator peeing himself with excitement after some of the racing from bygone days it's like watching paint dry  Dons helmet & awaits incoming

The race we saw yesterday was well above the historic average of Formula 1 races in terms of "entertainment" and in fact it must be among the 3% closest finishes ever, with three cars of three different teams in two seconds. I thinw we are living a really exciting season.

[Montie]

0.1kg is a silly amount to be thrown out on, but the line has to be drawn and it’s clearly stated in the rules where. Magnussen could see how much he was using and should have managed it better, and Haas should have been in his ear making sure of it. They have no one to blame but themselves.

All that said, I do agree with him that the constant need for fuel saving in F1 isn’t what racing should be about.

I do think Magnussen can see his fuel status. His engineer should have warned him earlier in the race that is was going to be an issue.

Edited by Montie, 22 October 2018 - 15:47.

[steendp]

https://streamable.com/5imgb Kmags race engineer the last lap. It’s a shame it’s down to that when racing.

[loki]

For those complaining about fuel saving rules, you have to understand that it's the only way to save Formula 1 and motorsports in general. There is no way any multinational (let alone any car maker) would want to be associated with an uncontrolled fossil fuel burning, energy wasting, activity. Or even worse, it could put powerful environmentalist lobbies against the sport. Can you imagine the devastating effects of an anti-motorsports campaign by Greenpeace?

 

Except for the scores of other top level professional motorsports that have no fuel flow or allocation rules.  These rules are specific to F1.  It's window dressing to appear to be eco-friendly and also a way to enforce a power equalizer with regards to the design.  The real carbon impact are the ships that transport the bulk cargo for the flyaways, the chartered freight flights for the air cargo, the fleets of trucks that transport the gear and motorhomes during the European swing and the fuel burned to fly the commercial flights to get the crew and spectators to an event.  The fuel burned and carbon emitted from the race cars are but a pimple on a gnat's bum compared to everything else.

[ericok]

For those complaining about fuel saving rules, you have to understand that it's the only way to save Formula 1 and motorsports in general. There is no way any multinational (let alone any car maker) would want to be associated with an uncontrolled fossil fuel burning, energy wasting, activity. Or even worse, it could put powerful environmentalist lobbies against the sport. Can you imagine the devastating effects of an anti-motorsports campaign by Greenpeace?

It should be noted that the MOST fuel consumed/wasted is not by the cars themselves, but by the spectators attending the race.  Even spectators attending football use fuel even though the sport itself doesn't.

[Baddoer]

In the end it was Perez who benefited for being conservative and pushed both K-mag and Ocon into exceeding fuel limits.

[Baddoer]

Somewhere in Haas headquarters there is guy yelling "It's all Renault's fault!"

You can ask guy on your picture that question.

[Laster]

In the end it was Perez who benefited for being conservative and pushed both K-mag and Ocon into exceeding fuel limits.

Ocon’s issue was not exceeding fuel limits but exceeding a fuel flow limit on the first lap. They were different issues.

[warp]

I can understand KMag's penalty. Fuel amount and how you use it can be influenced by the driver.

I can't see it in Ocon's case though. I don't think the driver can modify fuel flow above the max limit? Huge mistake by RPFI

[ANF]

Saving fuel can be a beautiful thing.

[Kalmake]

Ocon had a valid point though. When you’re exceeding track limits and don’t gain an advantage, you don’t get a penalty. Yet, he only exceeded fuel flow limits on lap 1, but did it gain him anyting? Not really. If I’m correct he even lost many positions on lap one. But he get’s disqualified for it...

If you start to consider gained advantage on technical rules it quickly gets very complicated. Should you then keep the result with an underweight car, if it's not too much? When does it become a DQ? Is there an intermediate penalty?

 

It's better to keep the simple DQ. They are very rare anyway.