142 replies to this topic

[cooper997]

More 1969 New Zealand Tasman info from Milan Fistonic.

 

January 11, 1969 Levin entry list

 

 

January 18, 1969 Wigram gird - Milan doesn't have the programme.

 

 

Part of Milan's message.... "Geoghegan didn't make it to Teretonga (Final 1969 NZ round). After two engine failures, one in practice at Pukekohe and the other in the race at Wigram, he headed for home to prepare for the Aussie rounds."

 

Please note the grid for the 1969 NZ GP has been added into post 93.

 

Thanks again to Milan

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

A  couple of 1966 New Zealand Tasman programme with Jim Clark & Co. Entry lists courtesy of Milan.

 

January 8, 1966 NZ GP Pukekohe rd 1

 

January 15, 1966 Levin rd2

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Mark Bisset has found this great Rod MacKenzie photo of Leo G at play.

 

 

Stephen

[TerryS]

More 1969 New Zealand Tasman info from Milan Fistonic.
 
January 11, 1969 Levin entry list
 

 
January 18, 1969 Wigram gird - Milan doesn't have the programme.
 

 
Part of Milan's message.... "Geoghegan didn't make it to Teretonga (Final 1969 NZ round). After two engine failures, one in practice at Pukekohe and the other in the race at Wigram, he headed for home to prepare for the Aussie rounds."
 
Please note the grid for the 1969 NZ GP has been added into post 93.
 
Thanks again to Milan
 
Stephen

I like the way they show Leo Geoghegan in a Brabham V8.....

[cooper997]

1969 Warwick Farm Gold Star/ANF2 entry list thanks to Milan,

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Racing Car News had a great many pieces of fine motor racing artwork gracing the covers of its issues over a couple of decades.

 

This cover painting of Leo in the 39 is by David Atkinson with the cover description mentioning it was presented to Leo at a reception after his Japanese GP win, by CAMS.

 

 

 

This photo arrived today from another of Mark Bisset's photo finding missions. The note mentioning how he's almost certain it's the December 1969 Warwick Farm Hordern Trophy meeting with Leo leading the Mildren Waggotts of Max Stewart and KB.

 

 

Stephen

 

[Ray Bell]

No rear wing there...

There must be a story behind that.

[MarkBisset]

Guys,
there are so many wing-combos on that Lotus 39 from 1968 to 1970 it's not funny. Wings later in 1968, wingless at the start of the '69 Tasman, hi-wings @ WF to none at Sandown. Hi-wings in the '69 Gold Star till post-Monaco. You sorta get the sense Leo was not certain about what was optimal. Max ran wings on the Mildren Waggott in 1969 but not here in 1.6 litre spec- the 1 race 1969 ANF2 C'Ship was run concurrently with the Gold Star round and was won by Max from Niel. The Sub ran wings all year- historic point here is KB ran the first 2 litre Waggott TC4V and won upon debut. Anyway I THiNK it's the '69 Hordern but it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong!
M

[Ray Bell]

But Leo has the wings on the front...

This would be a very unbalanced car in this state. Could the pic be from practice?

[MarkBisset]

Ray,
Too many folks for practice? Not much angle on the dangle on the front wing- he seems to be after a smidge better front end bite?
M

[SJ Lambert]

The Hotchkiss Elfin Mono Cosworth had a run with the Geoghegan  Lotus 39 Climax in the 1966 Hordern Trophy! 

 

[lyntonh]

These are photos I took in the esses during practice for the Hordern Trophy meeting in December 1969.

Sorry, Mark, but Max has wings and the red helmet, and KB has a dark rim on the nose cone.

Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.!!

 

 

Edited by lyntonh, 25 November 2018 - 05:46.

[MarkBisset]

Ha - ha Lynton!
Case busted! Thanks for posting- I wonder which other meeting it is then?
M

[lyntonh]

July 69 practice was my first meeting at the farm. KB was in an open face helmet, which fits if you look closely.

Leo had no rear wing which also works.

 

I haven't any photos of Max that day, which would really help!!

 

I only went on the Saturday, so that's where my usefulness ends.

 

And apologies for not cleaning the dross off the scans, I thought you would like a swift reply.!!!

 

Edited by lyntonh, 25 November 2018 - 06:49.

[MarkBisset]

Yes, the photo I posted is hard to pick (a date) in part because we can't see what engine is in the Sub.
The configuration of the 39 is bewildering in 1968-9- the most shots of the car in one place are probably in my article- it's wings on / wings off from meeting to meeting which gives one an idea of the challenges to the engineers/drivers in that nascent wing era about what did and didn't work

[lyntonh]

A couple of shots from 6th December 1969 at Warwick Farm, just for interest.

During practice, Leo spun the car coming out of the esses.

 

 

Edited by lyntonh, 25 November 2018 - 10:27.

[lyntonh]

Here's Leo Geoghegan in the Lotus 39 during practice for the 1970 Tasman round at Warwick Farm.

Edited by lyntonh, 25 November 2018 - 10:26.

[Ray Bell]

It was May 14 when high wings were reined in by the FIA...

 

May 3 Leo was in Japan, but the speed of the circuit there appears to have favoured a non-winged car. At the Farm on the same weekend - May 4, the same weekend as the Spanish GP where the crashes which led to the wing bans - Niel Allen ran bi-winged. But at Oran Park on June 29 none of those leading cars had wings apart from Allen with triangular front tabs and a 'tea tray' on the back of the M4A.

 

Everyone, it can be seen, was in a state of flux with wings. I would suggest they were having problems getting them made and fitted. So two weeks later at the Farm we saw KB with small wings both ends, Leo with the front wings only and Max with none. Leo's high wing was so big it would have needed significant reconstruction to be used under the new rules, which possibly hadn't been finalised anyway. Leo did run the original high wing mounted in a lower position, but it was too wide for the new rules.

 

Bear in mind, too, that this was still in the era during which comparison runs were done to see if it was quicker to race without wings, Even up to Monza in 1970 this was still true in F1.

 

But I don't think it was by choice, at all, that Leo didn't have a rear wing at that meeting. He had a spin coming to the Causeway, too.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Ray Bell, 25 November 2018 - 16:43.

[cooper997]

Time for another relating to Jim, via Max Williams facebook, via Mark Bisset. Looks like he's just heading out for a practice from the (old) Sandown pit lane.

 

 

Stephen

[SJ Lambert]

Bob Mills' shot of Leo at Mt Fuji

 

[MarkBisset]

Thanks Lynton for all the shots- the 39 and The Sub two of my all time faves!

It does beg the question Ray of who was fabricating the things (wing things) . Both Sydney teams, was there a fabricator of choice being sought out or were they beavering away in their respective shops in which case who was shaping and cutting the metal so to speak?
Interestingly, having been fiddling around with an article on BT23D, KB / Mildren arrived at a mid-1968 wing setup for that car and pretty much, successfully, kept it all the way thru the '69 Tasman, whereas Leo was all over the shop like a mad woman's brekkie?

Another tangent is why the Sub arrived without wings in Oz. Surely FG knew he needed wings well in advance of jumping on the 707 at Heathrow?

M

[Ray Bell]

At the time Frank reckoned it didn't need wings...

 

The shape of the body, I guess. Anyway, as we all know, it ran without them for a short time but had a full set, high wings front and rear, at the AGP at Lakeside in February 1969.

[lyntonh]

Interesting to note that by the time the Tasman meeting came around in February 1970, only two months later,

Mildren had dispensed with the engine cover mounted wing, and gone to a post-supported arrangement.

 

Perhaps the bodywork moved around too much.

Edited by lyntonh, 27 November 2018 - 02:36.

[Lee Nicolle]

I like the way they show Leo Geoghegan in a Brabham V8.....

And which one of those drivers is still winning?

[TerryS]

And which one of those drivers is still winning?

Simple, Kenny Smith

[Catalina Park]

It does beg the question Ray of who was fabricating the things (wing things) . Both Sydney teams, was there a fabricator of choice being sought out or were they beavering away in their respective shops in which case who was shaping and cutting the metal so to speak?
Interestingly, having been fiddling around with an article on BT23D, KB / Mildren arrived at a mid-1968 wing setup for that car and pretty much, successfully, kept it all the way thru the '69 Tasman, whereas Leo was all over the shop like a mad woman's brekkie?

Alan Standfield was probably the best aluminium fabricator in Sydney.

Edited by Catalina Park, 28 November 2018 - 10:19.

[Ray Bell]

I think a fuller answer is required for Mark's question...

First, let's deal with the 23D situation he describes. The period involved was prior to the condemnation of high wings, so once they established they had a working wing arrangement there was no need to change it.

Then Leo's. He went for a bigger wing, more inclined to create more drag to offset its downforce benefit. Leo would also have been looking at the Team Lotus developments, which were happening quite rapidly at this time. Hence he ran the wing mounted off the rollover bar and he ran it in a higher position.

And, like Team Lotus, he ran laps without it on circuits with longer straights in an effort to benefit from higher straight-line speed.

Another point worth considering is that everyone was in a quandary regarding just what chord profile was required to get efficiency at the speeds where the downforce was most required.

I wonder,for instance, what an aerodynamicist might say about the angle of Stewart's wing here...



...and whether he might suggest it's getting close to a stall angle?




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 28 November 2018 - 12:56.

[cooper997]

May 81 WHEELS magazine 6 page feature on John Dawson-Damer's Lotus collection - the 39 was under restoration at the time.

 

 

Stephen

[Doug Nye]

These are photos I took in the esses during practice for the Hordern Trophy meeting in December 1969.

Sorry, Mark, but Max has wings and the red helmet, and KB has a dark rim on the nose cone.

Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.!!

 

 

 

 

Wonderful photos Lynton....

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 01 December 2018 - 08:41.

[ellrosso]

Few more pics of the Leo Geoghegan Lotus 39. The Symmons Plains Gold Star grid is particularly special for me as it was the first time I'd seen these cars/drivers "in the flesh" and I was a big fan of the Geoghegans. Leo and KB had a great dice for the first few laps too. The ex Courage McLaren M4A of Neil Allen is in the foreground of course - now owned by McLaren's Mike Flewitt and will no doubt be raced at Goodwood etc.

[ellrosso]

Discovered the sequence of Leo Geoghegan losing the wheel at Longford in 1968 in the Aust Motor Racing Annual 1968 edition - pic courtesy of that publication.

[cooper997]

Time this thread got an addition.

 

Mark Bisset has forwarded this photo and comments.

"Leo @ WF during the 1969 Tasman round- he wasn’t entirely convinced tho- raced sans wings the following week @ Sandown.
However flimsy the mount looked it was better than GLTL efforts! And a neat solution to the challenge of mounting direct to the upright and movement.
Yay Sheppo and Leo!"
 

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Photo taken by? Maybe Bill Forsyth?

As they stood next to Bob and myself, of course. The best spot at the Farm.

[cooper997]

Sandown Historics 15 October 1995 - John D-D ready to play

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Here's one more found from the same meeting. I look at the chap talking to John and think Dale Harvey. Hopefully Dale can confirm or deny.

 

 

Stephen

[Dale Harvey]

No. Not me.

[cooper997]

Here's Graham Howard's feature from the 1983-84 Australian Motor Racing Yearbook #13.

 

Going by the initials listed at the end of each photo caption, it would suggest credit goes to Ray Berghouse & Paul Cross for their part in the feature..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen

[Lola5000]

Sandown Historics 15 October 1995 - John D-D ready to play

 

 

 

 

Stephen

Far right of the photo is Noel Robson on the wheel of his Brabham BT14?

 

D.D that weekend was awarded a very nice trophy for from memory winning the handicap race ,my then company donated the trophy.

 

I was running my BT21C,great M/O days before cheeting was the norm with fat engines as is the case now .

[Ray Bell]

Is 'PC' Paul Cross?

 

And talking to a well-known sixties (and later) photographer the other day he told me that another party is taking all credit for his sixties photos now.

[cooper997]

Ray, yes to PC being Paul Cross. I mentioned him in the AMR Lotus 39 feature post 137 with Ray Berghouse.

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 27 January 2020 - 06:10.

[Ray Bell]

And do you know who took the photos accredited to RB?

[cooper997]

Ray Berghouse - the Annual's credits page lists the codes to the initials.

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Yeah, I know he was accredited with them...

 

But did he take them?

 

See post 139...