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The Lotus 39


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#51 pierrre

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:04

What a stunning car, designed for Jimmy to utilise the still born Coventry Climax flat 16 cylinder 1 1/2 litre F1 engine, shelved and then pressed into service as a Tasman car and then going to Leo Geoghegan who also fited a 2 1/2 litre Repco Brabham and used it as an ANF1 car, it is to me just about my favourite aluminium moncoque racing car!

 

SJL5498-2.jpganonymous pictures website

any idea who took that picture? its absolutely stunning and want to use it on my page and accredit it



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#52 StanBarrett2

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 12:45

any idea who took that picture? its absolutely stunning and want to use it on my page and accredit it

The image file name is SJL5498, so presumably taken by the original poster S J Lambert

 

macoran


Edited by StanBarrett2, 05 November 2018 - 12:46.


#53 cooper997

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 17:33

James Lambert is indeed the man who took the photo that leads this thread..I'm sure he'll be along soon to respond.

 

All Lotus 39 on wooden floor photos shown on page 1 are from October 12-14, 2018 Motorclassica at Melbourne's Royal Exhibition Building. Where the Lotus formed part of the 90 years of the Australian GP theme

 

Related photos can be found here

https://forums.autos...ding-melbourne/

 

 

Stephen



#54 pierrre

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 18:08

ok thank you for the information



#55 bradbury west

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 23:55

Back to the Elfin Imp, do we know if any of the McGuire's garage people are still contactable? I have also, in the last three days, come across the Eagle Imp, in more or less the same period. I believe it is still for sale again. I think I will try to contact Kevin Bartlett about the Elfin.
Roger Lund.

#56 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 02:18

Kevin will know, Roger...

But I have a notion that Jim and Carmen didn't have children. There would be people who knew them, however, though a dwindling number these days.

#57 cooper997

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 04:05



I have posted two of my favourite David Keep pics of the Lotus 39 - pit lane, Longford and into the Viaduct with Clark leading Jackie Stewart. I only saw the car live in Leo Geoghegan's capable hands at the Symmons Plains Gold Star round where he actually led Bartlett for the first few laps before the superior "Yellow Submarine" Mildren Alfa took over and gradually edged away. The 39 was always immaculate and so impressive in appearance - simple Castrol livery with seemingly just the right amount of chromework to bodywork.

Fitted perfectly with Leo's smooth driving style. Pete's Mustang and the Lotus were a great combination.434-K-Clar-66-lo.jpg

 

Ray mentioned Peter Bakalor in the last post of page 1, here's his April 1966 Motor Racing Tasman feature

 

1966-Moto-Racing-Bakalor-Tasman-report-T

 

Stephen



#58 TerryS

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 07:23

James Lambert is indeed the man who took the photo that leads this thread..I'm sure he'll be along soon to respond.
 
All Lotus 39 on wooden floor photos shown on page 1 are from October 12-14, 2018 Motorclassica at Melbourne's Royal Exhibition Building. Where the Lotus formed part of the 90 years of the Australian GP theme
 
Stephen


Wasn’t it 91 years?

#59 GreenMachine

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 09:08

Wasn’t it 91 years?


Yairs! :up:

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#60 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 10:42

Nearly 92...

But who's counting?

#61 GeoffR

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:04

The Eagle Imp ad  ........

 

http://www.my105.com...etails/id/19934



#62 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 13:17

Because that will disappear in time...

1118eagleimpad.jpg

This is a tiny car.

#63 john medley

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 20:48

Love the kinked upper trailing arm



#64 ellrosso

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Posted 07 November 2018 - 01:01

Looks a tad different to what it did in period....... Would be a great buy at $20K though.



#65 cooper997

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:32

One sent through from Mark Bisset. if you know who took the photo happy to attribute accordingly.

 

It's from the 1966 Lakeside AGP/Tasman meeting. Lotus filling his mirrors with Leo G and Jim Palmer in view. It must be Event 2 Qualifying heat 2 - entry list back on page 1.

 

1966-Lakeside-Clark-Lotus-39.jpg

 

Stephen



#66 plannerpower

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 02:58

Leo Geoghegan, 1967 AGP, Warwick Farm;

 

 

L-Geoghegan-Lotus-39.jpg

 

Leo-Geoghegan-Lotus-39.jpg

 

 



#67 MarkBisset

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:33

It never ceases to amaze me how simple, beautiful and effective the Castrol colours of the day were- the Mustang, 39 and 59B all looked simply (literally) sensational and instantly recognisable. Gotta be a lesson there?

#68 plannerpower

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:17

"... simple, beautiful and effective...".

 

Wonderfully expressed; I would describe them summarily as "elegant".

 

It's modern "liveries" that are, or try to be, "sensational"; "Look at me, look at me" they cry, like some sad Facebooker trying to obtain a few more "likes".

 

They only achieve vulgarity.

 

Basil Fawlty put it well; "You wouldn't understand, dear; it's called style".

 

Once the conscious & deliberate pursuit of "style" begins, it's only a few steps down to vulgarity.



#69 cooper997

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:57

Another of Mark's facebook finds

 

Leo Geoghegan at Surfers Paradise - attribute to Greg Newling. Note said 1968, but could it be August 1967 SpeedWeek Gold Star meeting where it carried #1?

 

lotus-39-Leo-G-Newling-TNF.jpg

 

Mark's 39 feature

https://primotipo.co...egans-lotus-39/

 

Stephen

 



#70 MarkBisset

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 02:10

S,
You are right - number does not work- it was with a batch of '68 Surfers Tasman cars and I made the wrong assumption. Those other Tasman shots I put on the primo FB page in the last couple of months if anyone wants to see them (Courage, Clark, Amon in P4) - so hard to find stuff on Bobs Group now, there must be tens of thousands of photos there!
M

#71 cooper997

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:23

Just looking on the Longford thread to be reminded Lindsay posted this one back in April from his Old Race Photos collection.

 

478-_K-_LGeo-68-lo.jpg

 

Stephen



#72 Kenzclass

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 09:25

Stephen,
I’d wager that the Lakeside grid shot is the work of Brier Thomas.
Black & white was his trademark.
If anyone has his Lakeside photo CD’s, it’s likely to be on there.

#73 ellrosso

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 10:05

Few more shots of Leo in the 39 including the last hurrah at Warwick Farm in 1970.1165-Leo-G-67-lo.jpg481-K-LGeog-68-lo.jpg10035-F-LGeo-70-lo.jpg



#74 MarkBisset

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 19:55

Thanks Lindsay,
Love the shot of Leo hooking into The Viaduct- what caused the loss of the left front on the dry day?
M

#75 cooper997

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 06:41

Stephen,
I’d wager that the Lakeside grid shot is the work of Brier Thomas.
Black & white was his trademark.
If anyone has his Lakeside photo CD’s, it’s likely to be on there.

Ken, it is a high chance. But I don't have the CD, even though I probably should. The Croston Lakeside book has 4 related Brier Thomas photos of Jim in the 39 at the February 1966 Lakeside AGP meeting. But none are the one in post 65.

 

Stephen



#76 Charlieman

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 13:01

Thanks Lindsay,
Love the shot of Leo hooking into The Viaduct- what caused the loss of the left front on the dry day?
M

It's a cracking photo, but there have been many others too on this thread.

 

Going downhill, there's greater weight transfer to the front of the car. Enough to keep the front right tyre planted. 

 

The rear left tyre is at a funny angle, perhaps riding on the kerb. The front wheels are pointing slightly away from the corner. That was the end of a scary moment!



#77 Wirra

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 20:07

Leo - riding the kerb!

Wash your mouth out with soap.

#78 TerryS

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 22:01

Few more shots of Leo in the 39 including the last hurrah at Warwick Farm in 1970.1165-Leo-G-67-lo.jpg481-K-LGeog-68-lo.jpg10035-F-LGeo-70-lo.jpg


Notice in the 1968 Longford shots that Leo does not have his customary visor on his helmet.

This could have been due to the higher speeds at Longford pulling his head back if he had the visor.

Edited by TerryS, 11 November 2018 - 22:01.


#79 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 22:51

The Warwick Farm shots also show goggles, Terry...

I don't recall him using a visor.

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#80 TerryS

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 02:59

The Warwick Farm shots also show goggles, Terry...

I don't recall him using a visor.


Ray, a visor is defined as "a surface that protects the eyes, such as shading from sun or glare". In this context it is attached to the front of a helmet.

See the first photo in post 78 compared to the second

#81 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:29

Oh, right, not a visor like some wore instead of goggles...

I see what you're getting at now.

#82 Alan Baker

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 10:17

A visor is a full face transparent cover used in rainy conditions, what TerryS is talking about is a peak, detachable of course on Bell helmets.



#83 cooper997

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 09:36

I just looked back over this thread and realised I hadn't added a Longford entry list. This is from Saturday, March 5, 1966.

 

1966-Longford-Sat-Event-6-TNF.jpg

 

I don't have access to the 1966 kiwi race programmes. So don't be shy if you do.

 

Stephen.



#84 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 09:51

I guess I might as well post my pic of Clark in this race...

Longfordckhllongbridge.jpg

Leading Graham Hill across the Long Bridge.

#85 cooper997

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 10:02

Back in 1984 the AARC & HSRCA got together to organise Historic Amaroo. Stirling Moss was guest and did some laps in various cars that weekend - including JD-D's Lotus 39. This photo is one of a couple published in the booklet after the meeting.

 

1984-Amaroo-Moss-Lotus-39-01-TNF.jpg

 

There should be a few TNF members present that weekend who might recall a tale or two.

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 14 November 2018 - 20:06.


#86 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 13:53

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I guess I might as well post my pic of Clark in this race...

Longfordckhllongbridge.jpg

Leading Graham Hill across the Long Bridge.


Now that I think about it, this can't have been during the Examiner Trophy race...

For that race I was at the Viaduct, I took a pic of the field sweeping down past the poplars on the opening lap. So the pic at the Long Bridge could have been in practice or in the main race on the Monday.

#87 opplock

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 15:20

If it is the race then that is a very rare photo. How many times would Jim Clark have received the "You're about to be lapped" signal? Very few I imagine.  



#88 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 19:53

If it is the race then that is a very rare photo. How many times would Jim Clark have received the "You're about to be lapped" signal? Very few I imagine.  

The blue flag being shown to Clark is held still rather than waved which, under the rules of the day, simply indicated that another car was following closely.  Only if the flag was waved would it have indicated that an overtaking move could be expected.



#89 StanBarrett2

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 20:23

The blue flag being shown to Clark is held still rather than waved 

I am so tempted to say...................

 

 

but I'll get my coat



#90 JtP2

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 22:34

I seem to remember that Clark was so disappointed in his car, that he spent a week testing before the race at Warwick farm to get it to work better.



#91 opplock

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 10:52

The blue flag being shown to Clark is held still rather than waved which, under the rules of the day, simply indicated that another car was following closely.  Only if the flag was waved would it have indicated that an overtaking move could be expected.

 

The stationary blue still has the same meaning, at least in UK, but during a race is shown only to drivers about to be lapped.   



#92 cooper997

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 20:46

As I tap this, it may not be November 16 in all parts of the globe, but it is in Australia.

 

Ten years ago today the majority of the Late John Dawson-Damer Lotus collection was scattered. With the Bonhams & Goodman auction taking place in Sydney. The 39 was Lot 59 and found its way to an enthusiast in Tasmania. Who still retains the car and was kind enough to display it at Motorclassica (as shown earlier in the thread).

 

Although there's some good 39 photos in the catalogue, I'm reluctant to break the spine trying to scan or even photograph them. So you'll just have to put up with this beauty.

2008-JDD-Lotus-auction-TNF.jpg

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 15 November 2018 - 20:48.


#93 cooper997

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:36

One of our New Zealand members has been kind enough to send through some entry lists. during Leo's visit with the 39 in 1969.

 

Starting with January 4, 1969 Pukekohe NZGP entry list

1969-NZ-GP-entry-list-TNF.jpg

 

1969-NZ-GP-grid-TNF.jpg

 

Thank you Milan

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 18 November 2018 - 01:22.


#94 Spa65

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:49

I guess there must have been more than one single seat Lotus on sale that day. This cover picture seems to me to be a 25. It appears to have the standard Coventry Climax 1.5 litre V8, earlier narrow wheels, and no vents on top of the nose. The allocated number 25 does not appear to be co-incidental - I have seen restored 25's with this number before. Given the paintwork and other details, this would approximate most closely to a late 1963 version. Still think the 25s and especially the 33s looked nicer than any variant of the 39, and just about the best looking GP cars ever.

#95 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 11:19

Yes, the auction also included the 32B...

 

D-D was a serious Lotus collector and he had few cars which weren't of that marque.

 

I'm probably guessing as I'm away from home, but I think the 25 is the one which grew a Daimler V8 in NZ.



#96 Wirra

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 12:47

Pretty sure the 32B was moved on earlier by D-D to Lotus Classics in a deal for the 79.

 



I guess there must have been more than one single seat Lotus on sale that day... 

 

Sure were. The whole collection except the 49 which was finally sold a couple of years ago to Adrian Newey.

 

If I have it correct the 25 was bought by an Aussie but spends most of its time being driven in UK/Europe by Andy Middlehurst.

 

100-0090.jpg

 

100-0066.jpg

 

100-0067.jpg

 

100-0102.jpg

 

100-0073.jpg

 

DD-auction-3.jpg

 

I honestly thought the collection was sold well under value but it's hard to argue with public auction prices


Edited by Wirra, 16 November 2018 - 12:53.


#97 JtP2

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 13:05

Surely a 39 is only a 25/33 with an altered rear to take the CC flat16, therefore they will all look the same forward of the rear bulkhead.

 

Vents on top of the nose?

 

Doesn't the car look wrong with the now supplied wider tyres. Thought it looked best with the 64/65 M section tyres.



#98 Spa65

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 14:05

Vents on top of the nose?

Post 73 shows that vents appeared between 1967 and 1968. They are apparent on the "Longford 1968 The Viaduct" (Castrol Colours)and the "Simpson W/Farm 1970" (Lotus coloured) shots, whereas earlier shots didn't have these. I guess it was about the time Bruce McLaren (I believe) discovered the advantage of channelling the radiator flow out and up. Easy to convert back to original specification on restoration I guess.

#99 JtP2

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 14:22

Sorry, I was only looking at Green Lotus photos. The vents appear to arrive with the V8 engine, so is that the connection?



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#100 Spa65

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 15:58

Sorry, I was only looking at Green Lotus photos. The vents appear to arrive with the V8 engine, so is that the connection?

My guess is that the vents would be beneficial (slightly) with any engine. Getting rid of them again later suggests to me that the original spec of the car was being sought after, though I'm no expert.