182 replies to this topic

[FirstnameLastname]

https://www.bbc.co.u...rmula1/46031254

BBC column from J.Palmer. Hamilton would be the 2018 WDC even if he was driving the Ferrari, so says Jolyon.

Don’t think that’s a giant leap really. He’s been much more consistent. Only difference would be if Vettel was in the Mercedes would he have made the same mistakes he’s made in the Ferrari or not.

[Kev00]

If Hamilton was in a Ferrari and Vettel was in a Mercedes then Yes. If it was Hamilton in a Ferrari vs Hamilton in a Mercedes then I still the the Mercedes Hamilton would just be slightly ahead.

[William Hunt]

No way, if Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari then Vettel would have been world champion

[Maxioos]

Simple yes for me.

[haryantofan666]

Hard to say, driving wise probably, but considering Ferrari strategy probably not

[Dan333SP]

Yea, if Mercedes team was left as-is except the car itself was swapped with Ferrari, I think Lewis cruises to the title. If he has to work within the existing Ferrari team in addition to using the car, I think it becomes more difficult.

[P123]

Maybe... probably... should we care? I know Ferrari get slated for their race day strategy, but you can't ignore that Merc are a bit rank there too at times. Scrub out some of those driving errors and there should be enough in terms of superior reliability and outright pace to cushion against those three races where Ferrari went up a blind development alley (F1 press pack official version of events), or had to stop using their supermegahyper battery boost. Or in other words, Vettel could/should have won it, in the Ferrari, and he knows it.

[CL16]

Hamilton/Ricciardo/Verstappen/Alonso would all have haven’t the title in the Ferrari.

[Marklar]

In theory yeah, as I think that the Ferrari is the quicker and more reliable car, albeit with a weaker race operation (though the Mercedes one isnt flawless either). It could be close though if we talk about the theoretical scenario of Ferrari-Hamilton vs. Mercedes-Hamilton, since overall there wasnt a huge difference between these teams.

Now the but: It's impossible to answer as every driver performs differently in different cars and team enviroments. Maybe Hamilton would have a positive impact on Ferrari or maybe a negative one. And vice-versa. Same goes to the scenario of Vettel being at Mercedes. And the Mercedes enviroment is a bit unique in the sense that they give Lewis all freedom he needs to perform well.

Though I think these kind of questions target more on whether Vettel could have won the title if he had performed as Lewis did or if Hamilton won the title not because of a superior car. And for both questions I'd say yes.

Edited by Marklar, 30 October 2018 - 23:01.

[pdac]

Might come down to who their teammates are. Do we swap both Hamilton and Bottas for Vettel and Raikkonen?

[BUFFY]

Both Ferrari & Mercedes often got the strategy wrong. Contrary to popular belief, poor strategising wasn't unique to the Ferrari pitwall. Mercedes gave them a good run for their money in that area and i think far too many are using that as  some kind of justifcation for Vettel's overall subpar performance/mistakes.

 

Vettel's Ferrari was just as quick as the Mercedes (arguably quicker) but with the added advantage of bullet-proof reliability. So surely, it's only logical, that the driver in the quick(er), more reliable car will win--(unless of course he's error prone)?

 

Simple answer is yes...

Edited by BUFFY, 31 October 2018 - 00:30.

[Logiso]

I don’t think Vettel would have made those mistakes in the Merc environment. But I think Hamilton would perform even better with that kind of pressure and support from the Tifosi. A difficult one haha.

I’ll say Yes, mainly because I think even without the mistakes Vettel has made Hamilton is the better driver.

[MonkeySpin]

If Hamilton was in a Ferrari and Vettel was in a Mercedes then Yes. If it was Hamilton in a Ferrari vs Hamilton in a Mercedes then I still the the Mercedes Hamilton would just be slightly ahead.

 

This sums it up perfectly for me!

[Sterzo]

Probably, but the big unknown is how well Hamilton would have gelled with the Ferrari team, which hasn't (for a variety of reasons) been as stable as Mercedes. Equally, it just might be that Vettel would have been more at ease in the Mercedes environment, and less error prone. Confidence is such a massive factor in performance.

[Reddington]

Yes

[rog]

Most likely yes because Ferrari had the best package over the season and the most reliable car.

[cheekybru]

Yup

[cheekybru]

The Ferrari was faster in at least 60% of races this year and Seb's Ferrari had no dnfs compared to 1 in race and 1 in qualy for Lewis. Do people really believe Lewis would not have won with that advantage?


If he was driving kimis Ferrari different story of course lots of dnfs and a team that forget you exist most Sundays

Edited by cheekybru, 02 November 2018 - 17:42.

[jstrains]

That is a no-brainer question, of course he would have beaten Vettel in a Mercedes, more interesting would be to see him in Red Bull, I think he would manage Alonso 2012 style miracle with the car...

[chrisj]

No way, if Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari then Vettel would have been world champion

I agree. I think Hamilton did a fantastic job this year, but Vettel would have also won in the Mercedes.

[SCUDmissile]

YES

Actually, who else would have?

Fairly confident Alonso, Ricciardo, Kimi with no.1 status, Rosberg and Hulkenberg would have too.

Not sure about Max because he also crashes a lot.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 31 October 2018 - 00:48.

[RPM40]

The Ferrari has had a slight balance of performance and slight reliability advantage over the year. So yes, probably by a larger margin even.

 

The amount of points Vettel lost by is an incredibly humiliating defeat for him for a driver who wants to believe he's in the league of the greats.

Edited by RPM40, 31 October 2018 - 00:45.

[EndlessMotion]

My guess is probably a yes too but let's not forget that as much as Vettel screwed up this year, Ferrari as a team made some howlers from the pitwall that didn't exactly help their cause. Could have ended up like Hamilton's 2012 campaign only with better reliability.

 

Either way, Seb and Ferrari are under no illusions that they had the car this year and should have taken both titles if they'd performed better. You never know how many serious chances you'll get at fighting for championships and this was certainly one of the better chances Ferrari let slip through their fingers.

 

I'd still love to see Hamilton drive for Ferrari for a couple of seasons and their recent resurgence certainly makes one wonder if it could still happen yet. Merc and Hamilton seem to be the perfect match but I have a feeling Lewis will be around for at least another 4-5 seasons yet with his recent comments about Kimi showing him how long you can stay on for. Who knows, if Mercedes decide they've had enough fun in F1 soon and Hamilton isn't ready to stop I can see Ferrari going all out to sign him if they stay this competitive for the foreseeable future.

[Gary Davies]

Yes, he would have. 

[teejay]

Yup.

[stairpotato]

No way, if Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari then Vettel would have been world champion

 

I'll have some of what you've been smoking please...

[RacingGreen]

Ferrari always have a certain "drama" about them and I'm not convinced that it brings out the best in Seb. Perhaps if he was in a slightly calmer team, but one that still allows him to express his mischievous sense of humour, it would suit is temperament better and he would be more consistent, (say Red Bull.) 

 

Lewis I think would be still have won in a Ferrari just due to the way he makes less mistakes when under the pressure, but in a straight car swap it would have been closer. 

[THEWALL]

The way the British press is enamored with Hamilton, he would not only have won in a Ferrari, but also been able to convince Brits not to vote in favor of Brexit...

[PlayboyRacer]

Yes

[HeadFirst]

In a straight swap situation (Lewis in the Ferrari, Seb in the Merc) ...... yes. What is more interesting to me is how things would have gone, if Alonso, Ricciardo, or Verstappen had been in the Ferrari.

[pitlanepalpatine]

Too many variables for my tastes.

[HermannH]

No way, if Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari then Vettel would have been world champion

Considering Ferrari has been the much faster and more reliable car, yeah sure  

 

vettel has lost about 6 wins that were easily takeable. So its a no-brainer. Hamilton would have dominated this season in the Ferrari.

[Lights]

Yes because Ferrari has the best (fastest/most reliable) package. It should have won both titles, even if Hamilton had been cloned at the start of the season and drove both cars.

Edited by Lights, 31 October 2018 - 06:59.

[SophieB]

If Hamilton was in a Ferrari and Vettel was in a Mercedes then Yes. If it was Hamilton in a Ferrari vs Hamilton in a Mercedes then I still the the Mercedes Hamilton would just be slightly ahead.

 

I cannot resolve this until I know which is the Evil Hamilton of the two Hamiltons.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Yes, without a doubt, in my opinion - if it was Hamilton Ferrari and Vettel Mercedes.

I am no Vettel fan bit let’s not forget the huge pressure he was under trying to deliver a Ferrari championship - far greater than a Mercedes one - also let’s forget the state of the Ferrari team with all the power struggles...

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 31 October 2018 - 07:29.

[Nonesuch]

Impossible to say. It's not like he's won all of Mercedes' championships, either.

 

These things are never that simple.

[abc]

Fairly confident , Kimi with no.1 status, 

 

Ha ha ha, now I wonder how that would happened 

He is 122 pts behind Lewis, lets say his car wouldnt break and he would finish 4th in Bahrain, Spain and 3rd in SPA. Where the rest of points would come from?

[Henri Greuter]

Had the Ferrari car been within the Mercedes team and they had to maintain & develop the car, and hamilton driving it, I think they had a chance but it would have been less easy for them than with the actual Mercedes car they used.

The team around the car was better at Mercedes than at Ferrari,

[AnR]

No way, if Vettel was in a Mercedes and Hamilton in a Ferrari then Vettel would have been world champion

 

+1

[Cliff]

That is a no-brainer question, of course he would have beaten Vettel in a Mercedes, more interesting would be to see him in Red Bull, I think he would manage Alonso 2012 style miracle with the car...

Nah

[as65p]

I reckon about 4 or 5 drivers other than Vettel in his 2018 form would have won in that Ferrari.

[HermannH]

I reckon about 4 or 5 drivers other than Vettel in his 2018 form would have won in that Ferrari.

Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Verstappen would have won for sure. No doubt. Some others are quite possible too.

[AnR]

Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Verstappen would have won for sure. No doubt. Some others are quite possible too.

 

All off those would have won in Merc too.

[HermannH]

All off those would have won in Merc too.

 

Yes, but only because Ferrari had no top level driver this year.

[Tstag]

I think it’s wirth reflecting on the point that Hamilton seems to thrive under pressure. I thought it was really enjoyable to watch Rosberg and Hamilton battle it out because they both handled pressure well and it made for great racing. Ferrari’s biggest error of judgement was in joy recruiting Hamilton to race alongside Vettle when Hamilton left McLaren! I do wonder if one day Ferrari will try and persuade arguably the greatest driver of the modern era to race for them. For the history books to show Hamilton never racing for Ferrari would in some respects be a shame.

[Spillage]

Never underestimate Ferrari's ability to fail to get the best from their drivers. I've a feeling the title would still be alive but would ultimately be going Mercedes' way.

[ConsiderAndGo]

I think so, yes, but Ferrari would have made it a little more difficult.

[GoldenColt]

I think so, yes, but Ferrari would have made it a little more difficult.

By producing a faster car with better reliability?

[HermannH]

By producing a faster car with better reliability?

Exactly. 

[Maustinsj]

Hamilton/Ricciardo/Verstappen/Alonso would all have haven’t the title in the Ferrari.

I think you’ve covered all the possibilities there!